Dover trial on evolution in schools

Abbey Normal

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Jul 9, 2005
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Mid-Atlantic region
Evolution still struggles for survival in school curricula
By Paul Nussbaum
Knight Ridder News Service

DOVER, Pa. - Outside the Dover fire hall last week, taking a break from a video lecture on ''Why Evolution is Stupid,'' Judy Grim blamed Darwin's theory for America's moral woes.

"If I'm taught there is a God I'm responsible to, I know I have to treat people right,'' said Grim, 63. ''But if there's no creator to answer to, it changes your whole lifestyle. Then it's just survival of the fittest. That's where our society is headed. That's why we have so many of the problems we do.''

The nation's latest battle over evolution, spawned in this rural York County town, exposes a deep and persistent cultural division that is uniquely American.

No difference: Despite a century of effort by science teachers, half of Americans reject evolution because they see it as a challenge to their religious beliefs. The fight over evolution, combining the combustible issues of religion, schools, courts and politics, has become the nation's ultimate values contest.

Coupled with questions on such things as school prayer, public display of the Ten Commandments, and homosexual marriage, the teaching of evolution is a powerful political issue for conservatives, going to the core of their dispute with ''activist judges.'' With an increasingly conservative Supreme Court, they have renewed hope that long-standing decisions on separation of church and state will be reversed.

Science has won most of the court battles. But it is making little headway in the wider culture, and now faces a new offensive from advocates of intelligent design.

''Regardless of what happens in Dover, this will continue to be a problem until, as a society, we come to grips with it,'' said Connie Bertka, director of the Program of Dialogue on Science, Ethics and Religion at the American Association for the Advancement of Science.

With more than 17,000 school boards and 50 state legislatures as potential battlegrounds, those who support teaching evolution say they are too busy battling immediate challenges to take on the broader schism in the country.

''It's something we agonize about . . . How are we really going to solve the problem, rather than just keep handing out fire extinguishers?'' said Eugenie C. Scott, executive director of the National Center for Science Education.

The battle in Dover: The Dover trial, which began Monday in federal court in Harrisburg, Pa., is the first to spotlight intelligent design. Intelligent design holds that natural selection cannot explain all the complex developments observed in nature and that an unspecified intelligent designer must be involved. Eleven parents sued the Dover school board in December after the board required that a statement introducing intelligent design as an alternative to evolution be read to biology classes.

The parents, represented by the American Civil Liberties Union, contend that the statement promotes a particular religious viewpoint and violates constitutional freedom-of-religion protections. The school board, defended by the Thomas More Law Center, a Christian legal center, says intelligent design is not religious and the school board merely wanted to inform students of alternatives to evolution.

Nationwide, surveys show Americans' attitudes virtually unchanged on the issue of evolution in the last 23 years. In 1982, 44 percent of those surveyed said they believed God created humans in their present form within the last 10,000 years, according to a Gallup poll. In 2004, the number was 45 percent. Only 9 percent in 1982 said they believed in evolution unaided by God, and 13 percent held that belief in 2004...


http://www.sltrib.com/ci_3080674?rjs
 
Those who oppose religion and God are those with the "Guilty" conscience...if ya eliminate God from our society...well then they believe their guilt will go away too! :2guns:
 
If this kind of nonsense persists we should just do away with public education entirely and let parents send their kids to any school they want which teaches anything along the spectrum from science to superstition.
 
Nuc said:
If this kind of nonsense persists we should just do away with public education entirely and let parents send their kids to any school they want which teaches anything along the spectrum from science to superstition.



LOL..."and the beat goes on" Sonny and Cher!
 
archangel said:
LOL..."and the beat goes on" Sonny and Cher!

Is this a non-sequitor, are you drunk, or is your humor so subtle that it's over my head. Because I haven't the vaguest what you're talking about.
 
Nuc said:
Is this a non-sequitor, are you drunk, or is your humor so subtle that it's over my head. Because I haven't the vaguest what you're talking about.


Noooo.not drunk...try "Surfers Stomp" thats what I'm doing to ya now!...LOL
 
Hagbard Celine said:
WTF mates?


nuc is a old time TV personality...who I am familiar with in the real world sense...just funny stuff here!
 
Nuc said:
Arch likes to go off on weird tangents. I don't know what he's talking about sometimes but it's entertaining.


mate...keep ya on your toes eh?
 
Nuc said:
If this kind of nonsense persists we should just do away with public education entirely and let parents send their kids to any school they want which teaches anything along the spectrum from science to superstition.

Exactly...they don't want people to hear both sides of the story and oddly enough the story they want enforced is that one with zero evidence.
 
All I can say is...........

Those who oppose religion and God are those with the "Guilty" conscience...if ya eliminate God from our society...well then they believe their guilt will go away too!

Nobody's trying to eliminate God from society, just from public institutions. Institutions like the courts and the schools are used by everybody including Christians, Muslims, Jews, Atheists, Hindus and Buddhists. Not all of these even believe there is a God, so you can't expect for them to have to put up with God being shoved down their throats if they don't want it. The first amendment is there to protect these people.

Kids can still pray during the moment of silence or during any other part of the day and everywhere outside of school and that goes for everyone else too. Faith is personal anyway, I don't get the crazy obsession with making our schools teach about God, to make religion a public policy. Kids learn that stuff in church. School is for learning a curriculum that all taxpayers of all faiths and ethnicities agree is appropriate. It's not just for Christians. So get over it already.
 
Hagbard Celine said:
Nobody's trying to eliminate God from society, just from public institutions. Institutions like the courts and the schools are used by everybody including Christians, Muslims, Jews, Atheists, Hindus and Buddhists. Not all of these even believe there is a God, so you can't expect for them to have to put up with God being shoved down their throats if they don't want it. The first amendment is there to protect these people.

Kids can still pray during the moment of silence or during any other part of the day and everywhere outside of school and that goes for everyone else too. Faith is personal anyway, I don't get the crazy obsession with making our schools teach about God, to make religion a public policy. Kids learn that stuff in church. School is for learning a curriculum that all taxpayers of all faiths and ethnicities agree is appropriate. It's not just for Christians. So get over it already.


up your ass....for your info our country was founded on "Christian Doctrin" not Islam...and Islam as it appears by the ACLU and National News Media is the only religion acceptable to be taught in schools...so if ya want to say "Whatever Dude" and are you drunk?as nuc likes to say...I say this to you..."Thats okay I have two guns-one for each of you" Damn I love abbey...cause' she likes Doc Holiday! :2guns:
 
archangel said:
up your ass....for your info our country was founded on "Christian Doctrin" not Islam...and Islam as it appears by the ACLU and National News Media is the only religion acceptable to be taught in schools...so if ya want to say "Whatever Dude" and are you drunk?as nuc likes to say...I say this to you..."Thats okay I have two guns-one for each of you" Damn I love abbey...cause' she likes Doc Holiday! :2guns:

Slight correction, Arch: I love Doc Holliday. ;) :D

shootfirst-docok.jpg
 
up your ass....for your info our country was founded on "Christian Doctrin" not Islam...and Islam as it appears by the ACLU and National News Media is the only religion acceptable to be taught in schools...so if ya want to say "Whatever Dude" and are you drunk?as nuc likes to say...I say this to you..."Thats okay I have two guns-one for each of you" Damn I love abbey...cause' she likes Doc Holiday!

Listen buddy, I think Val Kilmer's performance in Tombstone as Doc Holiday is his best work. That has nothing to do with what we're talking about here. What we have to talk about is that Islam isn't taught in schools. You're full of right-wing sh*t. Nice try buster.
 
Hagbard Celine said:
Listen buddy, I think Val Kilmer's performance in Tombstone as Doc Holiday is his best work. That has nothing to do with what we're talking about here. What we have to talk about is that Islam isn't taught in schools. You're full of right-wing sh*t. Nice try buster.

The post of mine you answered with this diatribe said: 'It appears as if the ACLU and National News media only find Islam acceptable to be taught in schools' If they have their way it will be...they are doing their best to push it!
As for the Doc Holiday comment...ya are right had nothing to do with the thread...just injected a little humor to wake you up...and to flirt with abbey...so what! :rolleyes:
 
With no ACLU, I wonder who preachers who want to preach on public streetcorners would go to protect their rights.






The court ruling from Penn. is great news, isn't it! Score one for education and for science, and take one point away from mindless superstitution and Creationism disguised as science.

Hope this one goes all the way to the Supreme Court so they can make Kansas stop pollutnig their kids' minds with completely incorrect ideas of what science is.
 

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