Don't Talk to Cops, Part 1 and 2

Discussion in 'Law and Justice System' started by Ragnar, Jun 24, 2010.

  1. Ragnar
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    Ragnar <--- Pic is not me

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    Yeah, yeah... I know! There is like 48 minutes of info here and that's like the internet equivalent of infinity. However it is well worth the investment. If your interested, try and remember it's here or just save the vids in your YT account until you have time to check them out. FYI- the cop does not talk nearly as fast as the lawyer. :lol: Anywho, just passing this along in case any USMBer wants to check it out.

    [​IMG]

    Take it from a lawyer...

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik]YouTube - Don't Talk to Cops, Part 1[/ame]

    Or, take it from a police officer...

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE]YouTube - Don't Talk to Cops, Part 2[/ame]

    In case you didn't quite follow it all, I'll sum it up for ya. Do. Not. Talk. To. Cops. :eusa_hand:
     
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  2. strollingbones
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    strollingbones Diamond Member

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    okay i am not investing an hour in something you could bottom line....


    dont talk to cops about what.....

    i am in a 25 zone doing 30 when i run up on a highway patrol man....i brake and all...showing respect and he pulls out...i am like o here we go..and sure enough he hits the blue light.....so he is walking up to the window and i go..."i was really trying to do 25" his reply "i didnt pull you for speeding" i shut up
     
  3. Ragnar
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    Ragnar <--- Pic is not me

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    Just a heads up for all. I'm not investing in response or debate with those so incurious as to not even watch at least one of the vids. (fwiw, if you watch part one, you will want to watch the other) ... (nothing against you HB)

    I know it's a lot to digest. So, watch it on your own time if you care to or skip it alltogether. No harm no foul. I think it's a worthwhile educational investment and it's free to all. Take that for what it's worth.

    The main point is to just put this out for those who might think it useful. Weather or not this thread goes anywhere is irrelevant to me, I just hope it gets some views. (sorry for not saying this stuff in the OP folks)
     
  4. RetiredGySgt
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    RetiredGySgt Platinum Member

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    If suspected of something never talk to cops. They can and will hear what they want to hear. Cops decide ahead of time what happened in every case and then go about proving what they have decided happened. Get a lawyer.

    Cops are allowed to lie to you at all stages of talking to you.

    If you are not a suspect there is nothing wrong with talking to cops.
     
  5. Quantum Windbag
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    Quantum Windbag Gold Member

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    Anything ever.
     
  6. George Costanza
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    George Costanza A Friendly Liberal

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    I don't think this most worthwhile thread is going to get much response - at least not from those of the "if I'm innocent, I have nothing to hide" crowd. Because what can they say in response to the type of penetrating truth that appears on both of these videos.

    OK - a few comments. In Part I, the law professor says that exculpatory statements made to police cannot be used by the defense at trial, since they are hearsay, while incriminating statements can be introduced by the prosecution. Technically, this is correct, but practially speaking, the professor is wrong. If the prosecution introduces a confession given to police during police interrogation, the defense is then allowed to introduce exculpatory statements made by the defendant as part of the same interview in which the confession was given. This is the so-called "complete statement" rule that is codified in most states which says that when one side introduces only part of a conversation or a communication, the other side is allowed to introduce other parts of the same conversation or communication. The rule is designed to prevent "cherry picking" of parts of a communication by one side, without allowing the other side to show that more was said than merely what the opponent introduced.

    Most of the material presented is based upon the idea that people can unwittingly implicate themselves in a crime they did not commit. That, of course, is quite true. I was a little disappointed that they did not cover another, even darker, aspect of the problem, which is that of the police lying to a suspect about his exposure and implying that if he will only confess, things will go much better for him. The cop did mention at the very end that they are allowed to lie to suspects, but I think they could have gone into that in much more detail.

    Pretty good stuff here. I have seen this set of videos before, but I watched them all the way through once again.

    I doubt that they will have much effect on our "law and order" crowd - but who knows? Thaks for this thread. I will watch with interest to see what follows.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 24, 2010
  7. ConHog
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    ConHog BANNED

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    I have no problem with people being advised to shut up when confronted by LEO, whether they are guilty or innocent. The burden is on the state to prove a case if they have one. No burden for the suspect to help them out.

    I disagree with you on whether LEO can lie to suspects. I have no problem with a LEO or DA telling a suspect they have a witness or anything like that in order to entice a confession. There's not much chance of someone being told they have a witness to a crime they didn't commit and admitting to a different crime because of that claim. It's just not logical.
     
  8. George Costanza
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    George Costanza A Friendly Liberal

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    FYI - here is the factual summary of the Reiner case, referred to in Part I:

    Ohio v. Reiner, 532 U.S. 17 (2001)
     
  9. George Costanza
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    George Costanza A Friendly Liberal

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    Are you disagreeing with the FACT that the police can lie to a suspect, or with the EFFECT you feel that has on the suspect giving a confession? From what you are saying here, I suspect it is the latter. If so, that's good - because if it is the former, you are out of luck. Police can lie to suspects.

    OK, let's talk about that. Yes, if I am in the interrogation room and some detective is telling me they have my prints on a gun I know I never touched, I will know the detective is lying, and it probably won't have much effect on what happens, except I might inform the detective that he is a liar.

    But cops lie about much more than this type of stuff. They lie about how much trouble the suspect is headed for. They lie about what they are going to "go to the district attorney with" and what they will be "requesting" by way of filing. They lie about possible punishment. They give promises of leniency which they know they will never ask for or that they will never get even if they do.

    A classic technique is to threaten a suspect with the death penalty in a murder case and then offer him a way out if he confesses to something that would not result in a capital offense. The suspect would never have been charged with a capital crime in the first place, but he doesn't know that and, under this type of situaiton, more than a few innocent people have confessed to murders they did not commit, simply to avoid a possible death sentence that never would have happened in any event.

    Did you watch the videos? If you did, you would have seen the cop talking about how he Mirandizes suspects. He advises them of their rights. Then, before getting the waiver of those rights, he tells the suspects what he "has" against them. THEN he asks them if they want to waive their rights and talk to him. A very effective technique - especially if he has thrown a few lies in while he was telling them what he "has."
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2010
  10. ConHog
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    No, I am for letting LEO lie to suspects, did I misread you in an earlier thread I had thought you said that you are against it?

    Yes, I watched the video, and I'm well aware of the technique of telling a suspect things will go easier if they just waive their rights and talk to them. Any person with a lick of common sense would reject that offer. Guilty or innocent. But as we both know criminals are generally stupid, so I have no problem with LEO taking advantage of that fact.

    Bottom line, don't say shit to a LEO if you're arrested until you have spoken to an attorney to be clear on your rights. If you're too stupid to comprehend that, you are on your own.
     

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