Don't have the votes...Who Cares... Screw You!

[Bfgrn]

Look people...seriously now...there is no doubt we need healthcare reform but it should NOT include a public option as this is just another entitlement program, it should NOT fine people for not having insurance, it should NOT add to the national debt. and it shouldn't tax the middle class....but does contain tort reform/malpractice insurance reforms.

If those provisions were in the Bill, I would support it.

WRONG... it would NOT be subsidized by the taxpayers...



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBi8A_HutII]YouTube - Robert Reich Public Option Video[/ame]

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

It will save money by having lower overhead costs

Fucking ignoramus. When's the last time that anything the gov't got involved in DIDN'T end up costing 10X what it would have in the private sector?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Who are these dullards who continually pray at the alter of BIG GOVERNMENT? It is their GOD.. their SAVIOUR... Their MOMMY... Their DADDY..

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Look people...seriously now...there is no doubt we need healthcare reform but it should NOT include a public option as this is just another entitlement program, it should NOT fine people for not having insurance, it should NOT add to the national debt. and it shouldn't tax the middle class....but does contain tort reform/malpractice insurance reforms.

If those provisions were in the Bill, I would support it.

WRONG... it would NOT be subsidized by the taxpayers...



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBi8A_HutII]YouTube - Robert Reich Public Option Video[/ame]

Actaully when the taxes are raised to pay for the plan it will be subsidized by the taxpayers.

Excellent Points Patek

1) NO PUBLIC OPTION
2) NO FINES FOR NOT HAVING INSURANCE
3) NO ADDING TO THE DEBT

The Baccus Bill will do all 3 of those just using differnt language.


medicare was supposed to cost 60 million dollars by 1990 and ended up costing almost a billion by that time....you think the corrupt govt is going to do better on their cost estimates for this health plan?

 

[Bfgrn]

Look people...seriously now...there is no doubt we need healthcare reform but it should NOT include a public option as this is just another entitlement program, it should NOT fine people for not having insurance, it should NOT add to the national debt. and it shouldn't tax the middle class....but does contain tort reform/malpractice insurance reforms.

If those provisions were in the Bill, I would support it.

WRONG... it would NOT be subsidized by the taxpayers...



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBi8A_HutII]YouTube - Robert Reich Public Option Video[/ame]

Actaully when the taxes are raised to pay for the plan it will be subsidized by the taxpayers.

Excellent Points Patek

1) NO PUBLIC OPTION
2) NO FINES FOR NOT HAVING INSURANCE
3) NO ADDING TO THE DEBT

The Baccus Bill will do all 3 of those just using differnt language.


medicare was supposed to cost 60 million dollars by 1990 and ended up costing almost a billion by that time....you think the corrupt govt is going to do better on their cost estimates for this health plan?

Well then here is a quandary for the Anti American right...

Our founding fathers CREATED a representative government...NOT a corporatocracy... so you pea brains will leave We, the People's life, liberty and pursuit of happiness in the hands of insurance corporations that are based SOLELY on taking IN as much $$$$$$ as possible and paying OUT as little $ as possible...so "coverage DENIED" and "Death Panels" is their MO...

DO you own a BRAIN???

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

WRONG... it would NOT be subsidized by the taxpayers...



YouTube - Robert Reich Public Option Video

Actaully when the taxes are raised to pay for the plan it will be subsidized by the taxpayers.

Excellent Points Patek

1) NO PUBLIC OPTION
2) NO FINES FOR NOT HAVING INSURANCE
3) NO ADDING TO THE DEBT

The Baccus Bill will do all 3 of those just using differnt language.


medicare was supposed to cost 60 million dollars by 1990 and ended up costing almost a billion by that time....you think the corrupt govt is going to do better on their cost estimates for this health plan?

Well then here is a quandary for the Anti American right...

Our founding fathers CREATED a representative government...NOT a corporatocracy... so you pea brains will leave We, the People's life, liberty and pursuit of happiness in the hands of insurance corporations that are based SOLELY on taking IN as much $$$$$$ as possible and paying OUT as little $ as possible...so "coverage DENIED" and "Death Panels" is their MO...

DO you own a BRAIN???

Oh ok so you dont want an honest discussion. YOu just want to use health care as a hammer to bash on those you disagree with politically. Thats shameful.

Instead of spending all the time that you do looking for different ways to bash those on the conservative side maybe you should spend some time trying to come up with ideas that both sides can find acceptable.

For example:

Tort Reform
Tax credits for purchasing insurance
Tax breaks for companies providing discounted/free insurance
A simple regulation stating that if you get sick your insurance company can't deny your claims.

Instead of being filled with hate and partisanship why dont you try to reach out?

 

[rightwinger]

Actaully when the taxes are raised to pay for the plan it will be subsidized by the taxpayers.

Excellent Points Patek

1) NO PUBLIC OPTION
2) NO FINES FOR NOT HAVING INSURANCE
3) NO ADDING TO THE DEBT

The Baccus Bill will do all 3 of those just using differnt language.


medicare was supposed to cost 60 million dollars by 1990 and ended up costing almost a billion by that time....you think the corrupt govt is going to do better on their cost estimates for this health plan?

Well then here is a quandary for the Anti American right...

Our founding fathers CREATED a representative government...NOT a corporatocracy... so you pea brains will leave We, the People's life, liberty and pursuit of happiness in the hands of insurance corporations that are based SOLELY on taking IN as much $$$$$$ as possible and paying OUT as little $ as possible...so "coverage DENIED" and "Death Panels" is their MO...

DO you own a BRAIN???

Oh ok so you dont want an honest discussion. YOu just want to use health care as a hammer to bash on those you disagree with politically. Thats shameful.

Instead of spending all the time that you do looking for different ways to bash those on the conservative side maybe you should spend some time trying to come up with ideas that both sides can find acceptable.

For example:

Tort Reform
Tax credits for purchasing insurance
Tax breaks for companies providing discounted/free insurance
A simple regulation stating that if you get sick your insurance company can't deny your claims.

Instead of being filled with hate and partisanship why dont you try to reach out?

Also
Increased competition in Pharms
Advertising of rates for doctors, medical services and prescriptions
Open ratings of doctors
Pooling of uninsured

 

[Bfgrn]

Actaully when the taxes are raised to pay for the plan it will be subsidized by the taxpayers.

Excellent Points Patek

1) NO PUBLIC OPTION
2) NO FINES FOR NOT HAVING INSURANCE
3) NO ADDING TO THE DEBT

The Baccus Bill will do all 3 of those just using differnt language.


medicare was supposed to cost 60 million dollars by 1990 and ended up costing almost a billion by that time....you think the corrupt govt is going to do better on their cost estimates for this health plan?

Well then here is a quandary for the Anti American right...

Our founding fathers CREATED a representative government...NOT a corporatocracy... so you pea brains will leave We, the People's life, liberty and pursuit of happiness in the hands of insurance corporations that are based SOLELY on taking IN as much $$$$$$ as possible and paying OUT as little $ as possible...so "coverage DENIED" and "Death Panels" is their MO...

DO you own a BRAIN???

Oh ok so you dont want an honest discussion. YOu just want to use health care as a hammer to bash on those you disagree with politically. Thats shameful.

Instead of spending all the time that you do looking for different ways to bash those on the conservative side maybe you should spend some time trying to come up with ideas that both sides can find acceptable.

For example:

Tort Reform
Tax credits for purchasing insurance
Tax breaks for companies providing discounted/free insurance
A simple regulation stating that if you get sick your insurance company can't deny your claims.

Instead of being filled with hate and partisanship why dont you try to reach out?

Albert Camus said: "It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners."

How do you "reach out" or have an intelligent discussion with pea brains that support the executioners?

Today's insurance corporations have created conditions for We, the People that are far WORSE than the conditions corporations like the British East India Company created for our founding fathers. Those were just monetary...Insurance corporations today can LITERALLY decide who lives and who dies, based on PROFIT MARGINS...Our founder's fought a revolution over LESS...


But, let's have a discussion on one of the right's pet subjects...PERSONAL responsibility...

When an insurance corporation denies coverage to a gravely ill person because they found a "loop hole" that results in that person being forced into bankruptcy or even premature death, WHO from these executioners is held PERSONALLY responsible? The CEO that make $24 MILLION dollars per year? ... NO...right wing pea brains will tell you, it's the fault of the executED...

Let's see how our beloved "capitalistic" "free market" founding fathers treated corporations:

-Corporations could not own stock in other corporations

-They were prohibited from any part of the political process

-In order to receive the profit-making privileges the shareholders sought, their corporations had to represent a clear benefit for the public good

-Individual stockholders were held personally liable for any harms done in the name of the corporation

So if THOSE were still the ground rules then I'm all for personal responsibility, if not, then government intervention is only way to protect the individual's life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...

Also...more than 1/2 the people of America ARE dependents... children, the elderly and the disabled...

Right wing pea brain solutions are fantastic....if only people would just evaporate...

"The legitimate object of Government is to do for a community of people whatever they need to have done but cannot do at all, or cannot so well do, for themselves in their separate and individual capacities. But in all that people can individually do as well for themselves, Government ought not to interfere."
President Abraham Lincoln

 

[HUGGY]

It all depends on how the question is worded in the survey....when "choice" is dropped only
43% SUPPORT A PUBLIC OPTION

they found that only 43 percent of the public were in favor of "creating a public health care plan administered by the federal government that would compete directly with private health insurance companies."

Read more at: New Poll: 77 Percent Support "Choice" Of Public Option

Reagan was a punk...and so are you.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Although a definate possibility...I don't think it's a viable option for the Democrats at this point. They see the writing on the wall if they force a plan through that the majority of Americans reject outright.

You underestimate the cult of personality. Remember Jonestown? Koresh? Manson?

They CAN do it and they don't care what the political ramifications are. They are far too invested in the "success" of this President and WILL fall on their swords if need be. They will use cloture if they have to and they will gamble on two things:

1.) The election is a LONG way off and the sheep are reliable as far as getting back into the pen when needed. Reliable and with short memories.

2.) The economy will recover, or more likely, be SOLD as recovered, and any plan they pass will have the revenue loaded on the front end, helping them knock a temporary dip in the deficit right around election time!

Now, I am not saying I think they are right on their gamble, and I am pretty sure they would like to avoid it if possible, but to get anything through the Senate without the Blue Dogs? These are the dice they will have to roll.

And they will. We WILL have Universal health Care WITH a public option and with every other item on the far-left wish list. No matter what it takes for them to do it.

It just is what it is. BAMN -- By Any Means Necessary.

 

[rightwinger]

Although a definate possibility...I don't think it's a viable option for the Democrats at this point. They see the writing on the wall if they force a plan through that the majority of Americans reject outright.

You underestimate the cult of personality. Remember Jonestown? Koresh? Manson?They CAN do it and they don't care what the political ramifications are. They are far too invested in the "success" of this President and WILL fall on their swords if need be. They will use cloture if they have to and they will gamble on two things:

1.) The election is a LONG way off and the sheep are reliable as far as getting back into the pen when needed. Reliable and with short memories.

2.) The economy will recover, or more likely, be SOLD as recovered, and any plan they pass will have the revenue loaded on the front end, helping them knock a temporary dip in the deficit right around election time!

Now, I am not saying I think they are right on their gamble, and I am pretty sure they would like to avoid it if possible, but to get anything through the Senate without the Blue Dogs? These are the dice they will have to roll.

And they will. We WILL have Universal health Care WITH a public option and with every other item on the far-left wish list. No matter what it takes for them to do it.

It just is what it is. BAMN -- By Any Means Necessary.

"You underestimate the cult of personality. Remember Jonestown? Koresh? Manson?"

Jonestown, Koresh, Manson........Healthcare

can't you all see the connection?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Although a definate possibility...I don't think it's a viable option for the Democrats at this point. They see the writing on the wall if they force a plan through that the majority of Americans reject outright.

You underestimate the cult of personality. Remember Jonestown? Koresh? Manson?They CAN do it and they don't care what the political ramifications are. They are far too invested in the "success" of this President and WILL fall on their swords if need be. They will use cloture if they have to and they will gamble on two things:

1.) The election is a LONG way off and the sheep are reliable as far as getting back into the pen when needed. Reliable and with short memories.

2.) The economy will recover, or more likely, be SOLD as recovered, and any plan they pass will have the revenue loaded on the front end, helping them knock a temporary dip in the deficit right around election time!

Now, I am not saying I think they are right on their gamble, and I am pretty sure they would like to avoid it if possible, but to get anything through the Senate without the Blue Dogs? These are the dice they will have to roll.

And they will. We WILL have Universal health Care WITH a public option and with every other item on the far-left wish list. No matter what it takes for them to do it.

It just is what it is. BAMN -- By Any Means Necessary.

"You underestimate the cult of personality. Remember Jonestown? Koresh? Manson?"

Jonestown, Koresh, Manson........Healthcare

can't you all see the connection?

Ah, but it's Midnight Trotter. What a pig.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

"You underestimate the cult of personality. Remember Jonestown? Koresh? Manson?"

Jonestown, Koresh, Manson........Healthcare

can't you all see the connection?

Ah, but it's Midnight Trotter. What a pig.

^^^ Look at the sock puppets sticking together! Every time I strike a nerve they post within close proximity of each other!

And it's: Jonestown, Koresh, Manson, OBAMA.

But, you already knew that.

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

Although a definate possibility...I don't think it's a viable option for the Democrats at this point. They see the writing on the wall if they force a plan through that the majority of Americans reject outright.

The MAJORITY DO NOT OBJECT, LOL........

 

[rightwinger]

"You underestimate the cult of personality. Remember Jonestown? Koresh? Manson?"

Jonestown, Koresh, Manson........Healthcare

can't you all see the connection?

Ah, but it's Midnight Trotter. What a pig.

^^^ Look at the sock puppets sticking together! Every time I strike a nerve they post within close proximity of each other!

And it's: Jonestown, Koresh, Manson, OBAMA.

But, you already knew that.

Oh ...I see it now

Silly me

Its Jonestown, Koresh, Manson and now Obama!

Gee Midnight ...you left out Hitler and Stalin

This is why these guys were voted out of office and will not be returning for some time. They rely on namecalling and analogies that appeal to only those of limited reasoning ability. It worked on the playground in third grade and it works with right wing republicans.

Unfortunately, the moderate independents are repulsed by this type of politics and have abandoned the republican party in droves.

republicans are a party in exile....rightfully so

 

[Polk]

It all depends on how the question is worded in the survey....when "choice" is dropped only
43% SUPPORT A PUBLIC OPTION

they found that only 43 percent of the public were in favor of "creating a public health care plan administered by the federal government that would compete directly with private health insurance companies."

Read more at: New Poll: 77 Percent Support "Choice" Of Public Option

What people fail to realize is that once a public option comes along, your company provided insurance will cease to exist... why would a company pay your health insurance cost when the government will do it for you? It's amazing people aren't smart enough to realize this...

Because if they're over a certain size, they'll pay a penalty, which results in dropping coverage not being a cost savings at all.

 

[Polk]

Also, they have the votes to pass it and the GOP knows it. That's why they're filibustering the bill.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Oh ...I see it now

Silly me

Its Jonestown, Koresh, Manson and now Obama!

Gee Midnight ...you left out Hitler and Stalin

This proves your stupidity. First of all there's no comparison -- neither Hitler or Stalin were really cult leaders -- secondly you're obviously projecting.

This is why these guys were voted out of office and will not be returning for some time. They rely on namecalling and analogies that appeal to only those of limited reasoning ability. It worked on the playground in third grade and it works with right wing republicans.

Unfortunately, the moderate independents are repulsed by this type of politics and have abandoned the republican party in droves.

republicans are a party in exile....rightfully so

You're really projecting really hard now. Take a look at the name calling and idiot analogies from your Dimwit Dem leadership, then revisit your own post.

I'm a independent who voted for Obama, stupid. But like most independents, I have the massive, towering, titanic buyer's remorse. And like all independents, I cannot "abandon" that which I have never been a part of.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Also, they have the votes to pass it and the GOP knows it. That's why they're filibustering the bill.

This is a lie. There's been NO filibuster.

Do you even know what a filibuster is?

 

[manu1959]

It all depends on how the question is worded in the survey....when "choice" is dropped only
43% SUPPORT A PUBLIC OPTION

they found that only 43 percent of the public were in favor of "creating a public health care plan administered by the federal government that would compete directly with private health insurance companies."

Read more at: New Poll: 77 Percent Support "Choice" Of Public Option

What people fail to realize is that once a public option comes along, your company provided insurance will cease to exist... why would a company pay your health insurance cost when the government will do it for you? It's amazing people aren't smart enough to realize this...

and that is exactly what happened in hawaii...