Don't feel alone if the EPA cost you your job

[RWatt]

How Chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) get to the Stratosphere when they are heavier than air - Defra, UK

 

[mudwhistle]

How Chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) get to the Stratosphere when they are heavier than air - Defra, UK

Oh, btw, CFCs have been phased out.

We haven't been using R-12 for years.

We are currently using R-22 which is an HCFC.

Soon that will be phased out and replaced by something less efficient like 410a.

As it is, CFCs aren't being used anymore. This discussion is a waste of time.

The problem now seems to be too much ozone. Or so says the left. I guess it doesn't matter. Whatever makes them some money and controls our lives they're happy with.

I suspect you're one of those "Nongovernemental Experts" Cass Sunstein likes to use.

 

[uscitizen]

CFCs don't react with water vapor so don't wash out the atmosphere with rain.

CFCs have been measured in the upper atmosphere Visible Earth: CLAES Measurements of CFC-12 In the Stratosphere



It doesn't need to. Once CFCs get high enough they are broken down by UV light. It's the free chlorine atoms that then go on to facilitate destruction of ozone.

Of course that is just a theory.

CFCs must be the magic gas. They weigh more then air but they don't obey same laws as everything else.



I've studied refrigeration for years and it has never been reported that anyone has found CFCs in the upper atmosphere.

Your report comes from NASA. It's very short on details.

NASA isn't what it used to be. So I don't trust something that falls under the President and he's turning into a Muslim outreach program.

"So I don't trust something that falls under the President and he's turning into a Muslim outreach program"

Reagan? He signed the Montreal Accord which made the CFC banning happen.
And Nixon formed the EPA.
You need to blame the correct side which in this case is also the "right" side.

 

[Old Rocks]

The EPA was formed during the Clinton years.

Since then R 12 has been phased out, R 22 has jumped in price this year from $100 a jug to nearly $300. Soon the only refrigerant they will allow us to use will be 410a.

Just because they discovered an hole in the Ozone above the polls.

Who cares that extreme cold freezes water vapor and causes a hole in the ozone.

The EPA is the tool Obama is using to drive dirty energy out of business.

Partisan blinder on there?

the phasing out of R22 was planned long before Obama took office there bub.
But don't let the truth stand in your way.



Time Line for Phase Out of Refrigerant R22

In the year 1987 conference was held, where a protocol by the name “Montreal Protocol” was signed by a number of countries to phase out the use and production of CFC refrigerants. US is one of the 190 countries where the manufacturing of R22 has to be stopped in phase manner and where the alternatives have to be found out.

As per EPA (Environmental Protection Agency), the timeline for phase out of R22 from United States is as follows:

January 1, 2010: By this date there would be complete ban on the production and import of R22 and R142b. However, there is exception for the on-going servicing needs of the existing plants and equipment.

January 1, 2015: By this date there would be ban on the sale and use of R22. There is exception for certain cases, including the serving needs of the existing refrigeration and air conditioning equipment.

January 1, 2020: By this date there would complete ban on the production and import of R22 refrigerant. The gas would not be available even for servicing of the existing plants.



Read more: R22 Phase Out Timeline. Freon 22 Bans Timeline

President Ronald Reagan signed the Montreal Protocol.

hmmm

Sorry, but I didn't even mention Obama. But then again he is currently in charge of the EPA.

Btw, I know about the Montreal Protocol. I have a refrigerant license.

The EPA is forcing up the price of refrigerants in the United States. The EPA, which was formed during the Clinton years, used the Montreal Protocol as an excuse to drive up the price. Can anyone explain to me why we're so worried about too much ozone yet we still have to get rid of something that breaks ozone down?

Somebody's gonna have to decide if Ozone is good or bad because I'm seeing another scam going on here. Call me a skeptic.

The EPA claims that CFCs take 50 years to reach the upper atmosphere, but Freon is heavier then air.

How the fuck does that happen?

How the fuck do you manage to be so stupid and find your way to a computer?

In the troposphere, ozone is a poison and pollutant. On the outer edge of the stratosphere, it blocks hard ultraviolet, which is damaging to all life.

 

[mudwhistle]

Of course that is just a theory.

CFCs must be the magic gas. They weigh more then air but they don't obey same laws as everything else.



I've studied refrigeration for years and it has never been reported that anyone has found CFCs in the upper atmosphere.

Your report comes from NASA. It's very short on details.

NASA isn't what it used to be. So I don't trust something that falls under the President and he's turning into a Muslim outreach program.

"So I don't trust something that falls under the President and he's turning into a Muslim outreach program"

Reagan? He signed the Montreal Accord which made the CFC banning happen.
And Nixon formed the EPA.
You need to blame the correct side which in this case is also the "right" side.

Obama's EPA is the motherfuckers raising the price, not Reagan's.

A few years ago a 30lb jug of R-22 cost $40. Now all of the sudden since the first of the year the price went from $150 to almost $300 in just 6 months.

You can expect the same thing to start happening to everything else Obama's EPA starts "regulating". That includes coal-fired generators that provide electricity. Obama has said he plans on driving up the price of energy to this country. Now why in the hell does he want to do that?

 

[bripat9643]

How about shutting down the EPA and putting them out of jobs.
You notice how it's OK to shut down private sector jobs ,but when it's government, it would be to hard on the economy, to pay government workers for unemployment checks and food stamps.

There is nothing I would enjoy more than seeing those EPA Nazis standing in the unemployment line. They are so callous about destroying other people's jobs, it's time they had a taste of their own medicine. When The Republicans take over, I hope they cut the EPA budget by 70%.

 

[mudwhistle]

Partisan blinder on there?

the phasing out of R22 was planned long before Obama took office there bub.
But don't let the truth stand in your way.



Time Line for Phase Out of Refrigerant R22

In the year 1987 conference was held, where a protocol by the name “Montreal Protocol” was signed by a number of countries to phase out the use and production of CFC refrigerants. US is one of the 190 countries where the manufacturing of R22 has to be stopped in phase manner and where the alternatives have to be found out.

As per EPA (Environmental Protection Agency), the timeline for phase out of R22 from United States is as follows:

January 1, 2010: By this date there would be complete ban on the production and import of R22 and R142b. However, there is exception for the on-going servicing needs of the existing plants and equipment.

January 1, 2015: By this date there would be ban on the sale and use of R22. There is exception for certain cases, including the serving needs of the existing refrigeration and air conditioning equipment.

January 1, 2020: By this date there would complete ban on the production and import of R22 refrigerant. The gas would not be available even for servicing of the existing plants.



Read more: R22 Phase Out Timeline. Freon 22 Bans Timeline

President Ronald Reagan signed the Montreal Protocol.

hmmm

Sorry, but I didn't even mention Obama. But then again he is currently in charge of the EPA.

Btw, I know about the Montreal Protocol. I have a refrigerant license.

The EPA is forcing up the price of refrigerants in the United States. The EPA, which was formed during the Clinton years, used the Montreal Protocol as an excuse to drive up the price. Can anyone explain to me why we're so worried about too much ozone yet we still have to get rid of something that breaks ozone down?

Somebody's gonna have to decide if Ozone is good or bad because I'm seeing another scam going on here. Call me a skeptic.

The EPA claims that CFCs take 50 years to reach the upper atmosphere, but Freon is heavier then air.

How the fuck does that happen?

How the fuck do you manage to be so stupid and find your way to a computer?

In the troposphere, ozone is a poison and pollutant. On the outer edge of the stratosphere, it blocks hard ultraviolet, which is damaging to all life.

STFU up!!!

Sea Water produces ozone. Marine life produces ozone you piece of fucken shit.

We've been talking about CFCs that destroy ozone and your dumb ass starts talking about how damaging ozone is.

Get your fucken head out of your ass shit-stain.


I'm gonna make it my mission to neg-rep your stupid ass for the rest of this month cocksucker.

 

[uscitizen]

"So I don't trust something that falls under the President and he's turning into a Muslim outreach program"

Reagan? He signed the Montreal Accord which made the CFC banning happen.
And Nixon formed the EPA.
You need to blame the correct side which in this case is also the "right" side.

Obama's EPA is the motherfuckers raising the price, not Reagan's.

A few years ago a 30lb jug of R-22 cost $40. Now all of the sudden since the first of the year the price went from $150 to almost $300 in just 6 months.

You can expect the same thing to start happening to everything else Obama's EPA starts "regulating". That includes coal-fired generators that provide electricity. Obama has said he plans on driving up the price of energy to this country. Now why in the hell does he want to do that?

and you have a liscence but do not understand the law of supply and demand on a reduced access/use substance like R22?
Which Reagan signed the accord banning/limiting its manufacture and applications.

 

[mudwhistle]

Obama's EPA is the motherfuckers raising the price, not Reagan's.

A few years ago a 30lb jug of R-22 cost $40. Now all of the sudden since the first of the year the price went from $150 to almost $300 in just 6 months.

You can expect the same thing to start happening to everything else Obama's EPA starts "regulating". That includes coal-fired generators that provide electricity. Obama has said he plans on driving up the price of energy to this country. Now why in the hell does he want to do that?

and you have a liscence but do not understand the law of supply and demand on a reduced access/use substance like R22?
Which Reagan signed the accord banning/limiting its manufacture and applications.

I also understand that regulations caused the price to go up, not just supply and demand. Most HVAC units in service today use R22, but Obama is trying to speed up the process by forcing the price up faster then normal. All he's doing is costing more and more money everywhere.

This did not happen with R12.

 

[uscitizen]

and you have a liscence but do not understand the law of supply and demand on a reduced access/use substance like R22?
Which Reagan signed the accord banning/limiting its manufacture and applications.

I also understand that regulations caused the price to go up, not just supply and demand. Most HVAC units in service today use R22, but Obama is trying to speed up the process by forcing the price up faster then normal. All he's doing is costing more and more money everywhere.

This did not happen with R12.

This did not happen with R12?????

LOL the price of R12 went from $20 a 20 lb can to $200 virtually overnight.
I was there and in the business.

I have guided several friends this month on how to convert their R12 auto AC to R134.

Not sure but I think R12 is maybe $45/lb now.

 

[mudwhistle]

I also understand that regulations caused the price to go up, not just supply and demand. Most HVAC units in service today use R22, but Obama is trying to speed up the process by forcing the price up faster then normal. All he's doing is costing more and more money everywhere.

This did not happen with R12.

This did not happen with R12?????

LOL the price of R12 went from $20 a can to $200 virtually overnight.
I was there and in the business.

You're a God Damned liar too.

 

[mudwhistle]

Most of the units in service today use R22.

What Obama is doing is raising the price so much that you can't afford R22 anymore.

That means that every household will have to change out their condenser units and their evap-coils along with the line-sets if they develop even a simple leak. The price of a jug will soon be as high as a replacement. This will put yet another burden on the consumer that they can't afford.

The market will work the way it is designed. When older R22 systems become unserviceable they will be replaced with 410a systems. Personally I don't like them because of the higher pressures. We seem to be having a lot of problems with them.

 

[mudwhistle]

According to the Montreal Protocol HCFCs aren't supposed to begin being phased out till 2015. Why then is the price going up already?

Answer: Because a tree-hugger is running the EPA

Hydrochlorofluorocarbons (HCFCs) Phase-out Management Plan (HPMP)

Under the Montreal Protocol on Substances that Deplete the Ozone Layer, especially Executive Committee (ExCom) 53/37 and ExCom 54/39, Parties to this Protocol agreed to set year 2013 as the time to freeze the consumption and production of HCFCs. They also agreed to start reducing its consumption and production in 2015. The time of freezing and reducing HCFCs is then known as 2013/2015.

Montreal Protocol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Obama is trying to speed the process up. He doesn't give a fuck that it's going to cost us big-time just because he can't wait.

 

[uscitizen]

Dumbass, the restrictions started in 2010 read my above post or do your own research.

 

[mudwhistle]

Dumbass, the restrictions started in 2010 read my above post or do your own research.

Dumbass?????

Now who's using bad language now???



I did my own research.

A freeze in production wasn't to begin till 2013.

For you to be correct somebody must have gone around the original agreement and moved the date up.

The final date wasn't to be until 2030 for it to be completely out of service.

 

[American Horse]

Don't feel alone if the EPA cost you your job
Or your future...
The EPA also, through mandates to the states drastically limits the use of private property to such limits that reasonable expectations under zoning law one year can change to almost no allowable usage in a subsequent year. That happened to me, such that the value of my largest salable asset, development land, was reduced by 66% in value by enforcement of a single regulation. I felt fortunate that it could be sold at all.

 

[uscitizen]

Dumbass, the restrictions started in 2010 read my above post or do your own research.

Dumbass?????

Now who's using bad language now???



I did my own research.

A freeze in production wasn't to begin till 2013.

For you to be correct somebody must have gone around the original agreement and moved the date up.

The final date wasn't to be until 2030 for it to be completely out of service.

By using dumbass I was being very kind to you

 

[mudwhistle]

Dumbass, the restrictions started in 2010 read my above post or do your own research.

Dumbass?????

Now who's using bad language now???



I did my own research.

A freeze in production wasn't to begin till 2013.

For you to be correct somebody must have gone around the original agreement and moved the date up.

The final date wasn't to be until 2030 for it to be completely out of service.

By using dumbass I was being very kind to you

Old Rocks started it by neg-repping me and insulting me in a PM.

Next time, if you want to be nice mind your own business.

 

[rdean]

Anyone who has lost his or her job thanks to the EPA just go 600 new friends to keep them company.

EPA responds to American Electric Power on closing coal-fired plants » Local News » Bluefield Daily Telegraph, Bluefield, WV



GLEN LYN, Va. — A spokesperson for the Environmental Protection Agency responded Friday to an announcement from American Electric Power on Thursday, stating that it would retire or down-size 11 coal-fired power plants, prompting the loss of 600 power plant jobs worth $40 million in wages in order to comply with EPA requirements.

Thank God the EPA is looking out for us.

China has no EPA, no insurance and lots of low paying jobs. Move there.

 

[Old Rocks]

Dumbass?????

Now who's using bad language now???



I did my own research.

A freeze in production wasn't to begin till 2013.

For you to be correct somebody must have gone around the original agreement and moved the date up.

The final date wasn't to be until 2030 for it to be completely out of service.

By using dumbass I was being very kind to you

Old Rocks started it by neg-repping me and insulting me in a PM.

Next time, if you want to be nice mind your own business.

Given the stupidity, ignorance, and downright lying that you bring to the board, just stating the truth about your posts would be insulting to any normal person.