debbiedowner
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What do you mean the middle class paid subsidies?
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Donald Trump is destroying Obamacare from within. And Michigan is a case study
- Thread starter basquebromance
- Start date
What do you mean the middle class paid subsidies?
. Premiums are skyrocketing. Earlier in 2016, the Obama administration admitted that Obamacare's premiums would increase by an average of 25 percent, but attempted to spin it by suggesting that most people wouldn't feel the increase because of higher subsidies to help offset the costs. However, former Treasury Department and Office of Management and Budget staffer J.T. Young noted in RealClearMarkets that this defense ignores the cost to the taxpayer as well as the fact that subsidies are indicative of a bad economic model:
Successful economic endeavors do not need subsidies. Producers create a product consumers want to buy and realize a competitive rate of profit. Both sides gain and willingly enter into a transaction. Absent that mutually beneficial relationship, there is no market.
ObamaCare shows what occurs when government tries to enforce a market. By applying subsidies to one or both sides of the economic equation, its enforced market cannot exist without continued government subsidies in the short-term, and becomes unsustainable in the long-term as politics compounds subsidies' distortion.
There's also the fact that there are millions of people on the Obamacare exchanges who won't qualify for the subsidies and will be economically pinched by the skyrocketing premiums.
In many parts of the country, the premium increases are worse than the Obama administration lets on, as states like Georgia and Minnesota are projected to have premium increases of 33 percent and 30 percent, respectively.
2. Deductibles are also increasing. According to CNBC, Obamacare's deductibles are set to increase by an average of 17 percent for all silver plans and an average of six percent for bronze plans. For the latter, the increase is slated to be a whopping 21 percent for those who don't qualify for the subsidies.
Deductibles, of course, are the threshold people need to pay under their insurance plans before they share the costs with their insurance companies, so higher deductibles in addition to higher premiums both are major squeezes on consumers.
3. There are a lack of insurance options under Obamacare. Seven states have only one insurer providing insurance through Obamacare due to the fact that major insurers like Blue Cross Blue Shield, United Healthcare and Aetna are all leaving the exchanges because of unsustainability. As a result, there has been less competition throughout the Obamacare exchanges, contributing to the rise of premiums and deductibles and less consumer choice.
4. The co-ops are failing. There were 23 co-ops created under Obamacare and at least 15 of them have gone under as a result of Obamacare's risk adjustment program that compelled insurers with healthy customers to redistribute wealth towards those with sicker customers. That's over $1.5 billion in taxpayer dollars down the drain.
5. Obamacare's Medicaid expansion is a burden for states. Thirty-two states were suckered into expand Medicaid under Obamacare, but the costs have been higher than expected – a whopping 49 percent higher, to be exact. The higher costs are due to the higher than expected enrollment numbers for Medicaid, as over 11.5 million have signed up for Medicaid in 24 states that only expected 5.5 million signups.
"States that expanded Medicaid will either have to boost health costs, raise taxes or cut spending to cover this ObamaCare 'freebie,'" the editors of Investor's Business Daily wrote. "Given that Medicaid is already swamping state budgets, this will not be good news."
This is especially true given that over the years, states will be left with higher and higher Medicaid bills as the federal government won't pay as much for it, and in doing so will drain state budgets.
6. Obamacare is resulting in higher wait times at the emergency room. Another one of the side effects of the Medicaid expansion is that waiting times have increased because fewer and fewer doctors are accepting Medicaid to avoid dealing with the program's bureaucracy for less than satisfactory compensation, forcing Medicaid patients to the emergency room to obtain a doctor. Without an increase in doctors to offset the surge in demand due to Obamacare's mandates and Medicaid expansion, longer wait times in the emergency room are the unfortunate consequence.
7. Obamacare is also resulting in a shortage of primary doctors. A report from the Association of American Medical Colleges found that America faces a shortfall of 61,700 to 94,700 doctors over the next ten years, as less medical residents plan on entering the field of primary care. Doctors have struggled to keep up with the higher demand, as 81 percent of physicians surveyed by The Physicians Foundation in 2012 were "over-extended or at full capacity" in terms of their ability to seek new patients – a real problem when new doctors are not entering the field. Obamacare seems to be a deterrent to new doctors entering the field; 46 percent of doctors who have delt with the monstrous law rated it as a "D" or an "F."
8. The number of Americans without insurance is set to skyrocket. As the Daily Wire explains here, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office estimates that the number of uninsured will increase to 26-28 million over the next ten years as more employers opt to stop offering insurance plans.
9. Obamacare is worsening America's debt problem. According to National Interest, "the single fastest-growing sector of federal spending is healthcare," and it's going to result in trillion-dollar deficits in seven years' time. The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office warned that the debt could be as high as $30 trillion by 2030, with Obamacare being one of the driving factors behind that increase.
10. Obamacare's Independent Advisory Board (IPAB), more popularly known as the "death panels," is still on the books. People seem to have forgotten about IPAB. The House of Representatives actually passed a bill to repeal it in 2015, but it is still law and could go into effect, creating a 15-member panel of experts that rations Medicare through price controls and determining the type of care that Medicare pays for. Whatever IPAB recommends becomes law if Congress cannot garner a two-thirds majority vote to override it. Even worse, none of IPAB's 15-member panel can be fired by the president, and if the appointments are never made, then the Department of Health and Human Services assumes the panel's power – an alarming centralization of power. There is only a brief window in 2017 when IPAB can be repealed, and if it's not, then in 2020 the panel's edicts will be law, even if Congress attempts overrides them.
11. The Obama administration is illegally using funds to hide Obamacare's losses. Per the Daily Wire:
[T]he administration used billions of dollars that were supposed to be used for the U.S. Treasury and instead sent them to insurers, a move that both the Congressional Research Service and the Government Accountability Office have ruled illegal. Naturally, the Obama administration is looking to tap into other federal funds to pay off insurers to cover their losses, reflecting the dire state of Obamacare.
Successful economic endeavors do not need subsidies. Producers create a product consumers want to buy and realize a competitive rate of profit. Both sides gain and willingly enter into a transaction. Absent that mutually beneficial relationship, there is no market.
ObamaCare shows what occurs when government tries to enforce a market. By applying subsidies to one or both sides of the economic equation, its enforced market cannot exist without continued government subsidies in the short-term, and becomes unsustainable in the long-term as politics compounds subsidies' distortion.
There's also the fact that there are millions of people on the Obamacare exchanges who won't qualify for the subsidies and will be economically pinched by the skyrocketing premiums.
In many parts of the country, the premium increases are worse than the Obama administration lets on, as states like Georgia and Minnesota are projected to have premium increases of 33 percent and 30 percent, respectively.
2. Deductibles are also increasing. According to CNBC, Obamacare's deductibles are set to increase by an average of 17 percent for all silver plans and an average of six percent for bronze plans. For the latter, the increase is slated to be a whopping 21 percent for those who don't qualify for the subsidies.
Deductibles, of course, are the threshold people need to pay under their insurance plans before they share the costs with their insurance companies, so higher deductibles in addition to higher premiums both are major squeezes on consumers.
3. There are a lack of insurance options under Obamacare. Seven states have only one insurer providing insurance through Obamacare due to the fact that major insurers like Blue Cross Blue Shield, United Healthcare and Aetna are all leaving the exchanges because of unsustainability. As a result, there has been less competition throughout the Obamacare exchanges, contributing to the rise of premiums and deductibles and less consumer choice.
4. The co-ops are failing. There were 23 co-ops created under Obamacare and at least 15 of them have gone under as a result of Obamacare's risk adjustment program that compelled insurers with healthy customers to redistribute wealth towards those with sicker customers. That's over $1.5 billion in taxpayer dollars down the drain.
5. Obamacare's Medicaid expansion is a burden for states. Thirty-two states were suckered into expand Medicaid under Obamacare, but the costs have been higher than expected – a whopping 49 percent higher, to be exact. The higher costs are due to the higher than expected enrollment numbers for Medicaid, as over 11.5 million have signed up for Medicaid in 24 states that only expected 5.5 million signups.
"States that expanded Medicaid will either have to boost health costs, raise taxes or cut spending to cover this ObamaCare 'freebie,'" the editors of Investor's Business Daily wrote. "Given that Medicaid is already swamping state budgets, this will not be good news."
This is especially true given that over the years, states will be left with higher and higher Medicaid bills as the federal government won't pay as much for it, and in doing so will drain state budgets.
6. Obamacare is resulting in higher wait times at the emergency room. Another one of the side effects of the Medicaid expansion is that waiting times have increased because fewer and fewer doctors are accepting Medicaid to avoid dealing with the program's bureaucracy for less than satisfactory compensation, forcing Medicaid patients to the emergency room to obtain a doctor. Without an increase in doctors to offset the surge in demand due to Obamacare's mandates and Medicaid expansion, longer wait times in the emergency room are the unfortunate consequence.
7. Obamacare is also resulting in a shortage of primary doctors. A report from the Association of American Medical Colleges found that America faces a shortfall of 61,700 to 94,700 doctors over the next ten years, as less medical residents plan on entering the field of primary care. Doctors have struggled to keep up with the higher demand, as 81 percent of physicians surveyed by The Physicians Foundation in 2012 were "over-extended or at full capacity" in terms of their ability to seek new patients – a real problem when new doctors are not entering the field. Obamacare seems to be a deterrent to new doctors entering the field; 46 percent of doctors who have delt with the monstrous law rated it as a "D" or an "F."
8. The number of Americans without insurance is set to skyrocket. As the Daily Wire explains here, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office estimates that the number of uninsured will increase to 26-28 million over the next ten years as more employers opt to stop offering insurance plans.
9. Obamacare is worsening America's debt problem. According to National Interest, "the single fastest-growing sector of federal spending is healthcare," and it's going to result in trillion-dollar deficits in seven years' time. The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office warned that the debt could be as high as $30 trillion by 2030, with Obamacare being one of the driving factors behind that increase.
10. Obamacare's Independent Advisory Board (IPAB), more popularly known as the "death panels," is still on the books. People seem to have forgotten about IPAB. The House of Representatives actually passed a bill to repeal it in 2015, but it is still law and could go into effect, creating a 15-member panel of experts that rations Medicare through price controls and determining the type of care that Medicare pays for. Whatever IPAB recommends becomes law if Congress cannot garner a two-thirds majority vote to override it. Even worse, none of IPAB's 15-member panel can be fired by the president, and if the appointments are never made, then the Department of Health and Human Services assumes the panel's power – an alarming centralization of power. There is only a brief window in 2017 when IPAB can be repealed, and if it's not, then in 2020 the panel's edicts will be law, even if Congress attempts overrides them.
11. The Obama administration is illegally using funds to hide Obamacare's losses. Per the Daily Wire:
[T]he administration used billions of dollars that were supposed to be used for the U.S. Treasury and instead sent them to insurers, a move that both the Congressional Research Service and the Government Accountability Office have ruled illegal. Naturally, the Obama administration is looking to tap into other federal funds to pay off insurers to cover their losses, reflecting the dire state of Obamacare.
debbiedowner
Gold Member
- Feb 12, 2017
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Yep, by god this does it for me. I am paying subsidies so some dick wad can have insurance. I am protesting.
Yep, by god this does it for me. I am paying subsidies so some dick wad can have insurance. I am protesting.
Actually, you're subsidizing insurance company industry profits. And you're hoping that some of that money trickles down to some dickwad who needs insurance. Good luck with that.
debbiedowner
Gold Member
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No I don't make over $200,000 so I am not paying for some dick wad, but even if some of my taxes went to it I was never affected financially. Just as soon my taxes go to something worthwhile than corporate welfare.
How Is Obamacare Paid For?
How Is Obamacare Paid For?
- Jan 19, 2010
- 67,557
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Trump did the right thing today.....
debbiedowner
Gold Member
- Feb 12, 2017
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What did he do today?
debbiedowner
Gold Member
- Feb 12, 2017
- 12,001
- 3,129
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Yep, by god this does it for me. I am paying subsidies so some dick wad can have insurance. I am protesting.
Actually, you're subsidizing insurance company industry profits. And you're hoping that some of that money trickles down to some dickwad who needs insurance. Good luck with that.
Do you know why the government is paying for cost share reductions?
- Jan 19, 2010
- 67,557
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He put a failing healthcare plan in the laps of a do nothing swamp and is forcing them to do their job and fix it....What did he do today?
debbiedowner
Gold Member
- Feb 12, 2017
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He put a failing healthcare plan in the laps of a do nothing swamp and is forcing them to do their job and fix it....What did he do today?
Oh, that was yesterday. I thought he did something special today.
- Jan 19, 2010
- 67,557
- 61,779
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Sorry bout that you are right....He put a failing healthcare plan in the laps of a do nothing swamp and is forcing them to do their job and fix it....What did he do today?
Oh, that was yesterday. I thought he did something special today.
Wry Catcher
Diamond Member
- Banned
- #32
Yeah. That's the way politics works. This is why having government in charge of health care is such a bad idea.
You're kidding, aren't you?
About what? This is exactly what I was screaming about when the idiots were pushing for ACA in the first place. When you put government in charge of something, especially when there isn't a broad consensus on the matter, it becomes a political football. Now that government has a 'foot in the door', health care will be in jeopardy with every regime change. So much for 'security'.
Are you aware the cost of health care before the ACA rose at double digits for years? That people with health care through their employer would lose health care if they choose to move to a new company if they have a preexisting condition, COBRA cost an arm and a leg (sometimes literally).
The obvious reason why the ACA became unpopular was the full court press during the summer before it was signed by Obama orchestrated by the R Party serving BIG PHARMA and the Medical Insurance industry complex.
As for government being incompetent maybe you ought to observe the efforts to safe life and property from FL to TX to CA the last couple of months.
Yeah. That's the way politics works. This is why having government in charge of health care is such a bad idea.
You're kidding, aren't you?
About what? This is exactly what I was screaming about when the idiots were pushing for ACA in the first place. When you put government in charge of something, especially when there isn't a broad consensus on the matter, it becomes a political football. Now that government has a 'foot in the door', health care will be in jeopardy with every regime change. So much for 'security'.
Are you aware the cost of health care before the ACA rose at double digits for years? That people with health care through their employer would lose health care if they choose to move to a new company if they have a preexisting condition, COBRA cost an arm and a leg (sometimes literally).
The obvious reason why the ACA became unpopular was the full court press during the summer before it was signed by Obama orchestrated by the R Party serving BIG PHARMA and the Medical Insurance industry complex.
As for government being incompetent maybe you ought to observe the efforts to safe life and property from FL to TX to CA the last couple of months.
I didn't say anything about government being incompetent, and that's not why I think government taking over health care is a bad idea. It's a bad idea because it subjects our most important, personal decisions to partisan politics. It gives ambitious leaders another tool to frighten voters into submission and placate lobbyists.
Yeah. That's the way politics works. This is why having government in charge of health care is such a bad idea.
You're kidding, aren't you?
About what? This is exactly what I was screaming about when the idiots were pushing for ACA in the first place. When you put government in charge of something, especially when there isn't a broad consensus on the matter, it becomes a political football. Now that government has a 'foot in the door', health care will be in jeopardy with every regime change. So much for 'security'.
Are you aware the cost of health care before the ACA rose at double digits for years? That people with health care through their employer would lose health care if they choose to move to a new company if they have a preexisting condition, COBRA cost an arm and a leg (sometimes literally).
The obvious reason why the ACA became unpopular was the full court press during the summer before it was signed by Obama orchestrated by the R Party serving BIG PHARMA and the Medical Insurance industry complex.
As for government being incompetent maybe you ought to observe the efforts to safe life and property from FL to TX to CA the last couple of months.
I didn't say anything about government being incompetent, and that's not why I think government taking over health care is a bad idea. It's a bad idea because it subjects our most important, personal decisions to partisan politics. It gives ambitious leaders another tool to frighten voters into submission and placate lobbyists.
debbiedowner
Gold Member
- Feb 12, 2017
- 12,001
- 3,129
- 275
Sorry bout that you are right....He put a failing healthcare plan in the laps of a do nothing swamp and is forcing them to do their job and fix it....What did he do today?
Oh, that was yesterday. I thought he did something special today.
No problem I didn't pay any attention yesterday, gotta keep up daily, just don't know what he might do. I thought I missed something.
Donald Trump Is Destroying Obamacare From Within
Michigan has been among the most successful ACA states, w/a thriving market. Trump doing everything he can to tear that down.
Good job Mr.President! That's why we elected him.
Donald Trump Is Destroying Obamacare From Within
Michigan has been among the most successful ACA states, w/a thriving market. Trump doing everything he can to tear that down.
Good job Mr.President! That's why we elected him.
No problem I didn't pay any attention yesterday, gotta keep up daily, just don't know what he might do. I thought I missed something.
Do you see now why making health care a government concern was a mistake?
debbiedowner
Gold Member
- Feb 12, 2017
- 12,001
- 3,129
- 275
Yeah. That's the way politics works. This is why having government in charge of health care is such a bad idea.
You're kidding, aren't you?
About what? This is exactly what I was screaming about when the idiots were pushing for ACA in the first place. When you put government in charge of something, especially when there isn't a broad consensus on the matter, it becomes a political football. Now that government has a 'foot in the door', health care will be in jeopardy with every regime change. So much for 'security'.
Are you aware the cost of health care before the ACA rose at double digits for years? That people with health care through their employer would lose health care if they choose to move to a new company if they have a preexisting condition, COBRA cost an arm and a leg (sometimes literally).
The obvious reason why the ACA became unpopular was the full court press during the summer before it was signed by Obama orchestrated by the R Party serving BIG PHARMA and the Medical Insurance industry complex.
As for government being incompetent maybe you ought to observe the efforts to safe life and property from FL to TX to CA the last couple of months.
I didn't say anything about government being incompetent, and that's not why I think government taking over health care is a bad idea. It's a bad idea because it subjects our most important, personal decisions to partisan politics. It gives ambitious leaders another tool to frighten voters into submission and placate lobbyists.
Just a little tidbit here, the government has been involved in your's and your great, great grandparents since the 19th century, it ain't gonna stop now.
History of health care reform in the United States - Wikipedia
Yeah. That's the way politics works. This is why having government in charge of health care is such a bad idea.
You're kidding, aren't you?
About what? This is exactly what I was screaming about when the idiots were pushing for ACA in the first place. When you put government in charge of something, especially when there isn't a broad consensus on the matter, it becomes a political football. Now that government has a 'foot in the door', health care will be in jeopardy with every regime change. So much for 'security'.
Are you aware the cost of health care before the ACA rose at double digits for years? That people with health care through their employer would lose health care if they choose to move to a new company if they have a preexisting condition, COBRA cost an arm and a leg (sometimes literally).
The obvious reason why the ACA became unpopular was the full court press during the summer before it was signed by Obama orchestrated by the R Party serving BIG PHARMA and the Medical Insurance industry complex.
As for government being incompetent maybe you ought to observe the efforts to safe life and property from FL to TX to CA the last couple of months.
I didn't say anything about government being incompetent, and that's not why I think government taking over health care is a bad idea. It's a bad idea because it subjects our most important, personal decisions to partisan politics. It gives ambitious leaders another tool to frighten voters into submission and placate lobbyists.
Just a little tidbit here, the government has been involved in your's and your great, great grandparents since the 19th century, it ain't gonna stop now.
History of health care reform in the United States - Wikipedia
And how's that worked out? Do you want more of the same, or something different?
Wry Catcher
Diamond Member
- Banned
- #38
Yeah. That's the way politics works. This is why having government in charge of health care is such a bad idea.
You're kidding, aren't you?
About what? This is exactly what I was screaming about when the idiots were pushing for ACA in the first place. When you put government in charge of something, especially when there isn't a broad consensus on the matter, it becomes a political football. Now that government has a 'foot in the door', health care will be in jeopardy with every regime change. So much for 'security'.
Are you aware the cost of health care before the ACA rose at double digits for years? That people with health care through their employer would lose health care if they choose to move to a new company if they have a preexisting condition, COBRA cost an arm and a leg (sometimes literally).
The obvious reason why the ACA became unpopular was the full court press during the summer before it was signed by Obama orchestrated by the R Party serving BIG PHARMA and the Medical Insurance industry complex.
As for government being incompetent maybe you ought to observe the efforts to safe life and property from FL to TX to CA the last couple of months.
I didn't say anything about government being incompetent, and that's not why I think government taking over health care is a bad idea. It's a bad idea because it subjects our most important, personal decisions to partisan politics. It gives ambitious leaders another tool to frighten voters into submission and placate lobbyists.
Reading and rereading your post allowed me to see through the cloud, Mea culpa for my not reading more carefully.
- Feb 12, 2007
- 59,384
- 24,018
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Obamacare was doom from the beginning ,a system that the middle class must pay subsidies for all the leeches who refuse to work.Donald Trump Is Destroying Obamacare From Within
Michigan has been among the most successful ACA states, w/a thriving market. Trump doing everything he can to tear that down.
ObabbleCare is imploding all on its own with no assist from Trump:
In preparing its analysis, eHealth reviewed the lowest-price 2017 plan available for families of three comprised of two adults age 35 and one child. The same family model was analyzed using data from Healthcare.gov in 40 cities, data from eHealth.com in 9 cities not utilizing Healthcare.gov, and data from the New York state exchange for New York City.
After applying a relatively modest annual rate increase of 10% to 2017 rates to project 2018 rates, eHealth discovered the following:
- In 47 of 50 cities surveyed, the lowest-priced plan would be officially unaffordable under Obamacare affordability standards for families earning 401% of the federal poverty level (about $82,000 per year in the contiguous US, making them ineligible for Obamacare subsidies).
To put eHealth's findings in perspective, a family of 3 in Charlotte, NC, with an annual income of $81,884, would have to spend 18% of their gross income in 2018 just to purchase the cheapest Obamacare plan for their family. On a post-tax basis, that expenditure would be well over 20%. Moreover, as eHealth points out, that family of 3 would have to find a way to make an extra $102,245 per year to meet the "affordability" test included in the Obamacare legislation....
- Among these, the average three-person household would need to earn an additional $28,939 per year before the lowest-cost plan becomes affordable according to Obamacare rules.
Even The Cheapest Obamacare Plans Are "Unaffordable" In 94% Of American Cities, New Study Finds
What do you mean the middle class paid subsidies?
Are you really that dense? Where do you think them money the government transfers to other people comes from?
debbiedowner
Gold Member
- Feb 12, 2017
- 12,001
- 3,129
- 275
Them money?
them money? WTH are you talking about? I posted a link on what taxpayers were targeted with higher taxes to pay for it.
Obamacare was doom from the beginning ,a system that the middle class must pay subsidies for all the leeches who refuse to work.Donald Trump Is Destroying Obamacare From Within
Michigan has been among the most successful ACA states, w/a thriving market. Trump doing everything he can to tear that down.
ObabbleCare is imploding all on its own with no assist from Trump:
In preparing its analysis, eHealth reviewed the lowest-price 2017 plan available for families of three comprised of two adults age 35 and one child. The same family model was analyzed using data from Healthcare.gov in 40 cities, data from eHealth.com in 9 cities not utilizing Healthcare.gov, and data from the New York state exchange for New York City.
After applying a relatively modest annual rate increase of 10% to 2017 rates to project 2018 rates, eHealth discovered the following:
- In 47 of 50 cities surveyed, the lowest-priced plan would be officially unaffordable under Obamacare affordability standards for families earning 401% of the federal poverty level (about $82,000 per year in the contiguous US, making them ineligible for Obamacare subsidies).
To put eHealth's findings in perspective, a family of 3 in Charlotte, NC, with an annual income of $81,884, would have to spend 18% of their gross income in 2018 just to purchase the cheapest Obamacare plan for their family. On a post-tax basis, that expenditure would be well over 20%. Moreover, as eHealth points out, that family of 3 would have to find a way to make an extra $102,245 per year to meet the "affordability" test included in the Obamacare legislation....
- Among these, the average three-person household would need to earn an additional $28,939 per year before the lowest-cost plan becomes affordable according to Obamacare rules.
Even The Cheapest Obamacare Plans Are "Unaffordable" In 94% Of American Cities, New Study Finds
What do you mean the middle class paid subsidies?
Are you really that dense? Where do you think them money the government transfers to other people comes from?
them money? WTH are you talking about? I posted a link on what taxpayers were targeted with higher taxes to pay for it.
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