Dolphins players take a knee

[Correll]

It is not I that is making this about our nation as whole.


The flag have been the symbol of our nation, since it had thirteen stars.


Indeed, FLAGS have stood for NATIONS, for thousands of years. That is their POINT.


It is absurd that you libs pretend to not know this.

This entire argument is predicated on you pretending to not understand why the players are protesting.

NOt at all.


NOthing in my argument, is based on their stated reason at all.


My point is about the meanings of their actual actions.



THink of it this way,


this could be seen as an ad for beer.

But some girl complained it was sexist, would you respond that they have a right to advertise beer?

Yes, they have a right to advertise beer.

Yep. You did not feel a need to pretend that a complaint about the sexism of the ad, was a complaint about advertising.

A complaint about the message, the underlying message, beyond the stated message, is not a denial of their right to free speech.



You listened to what the hypothetical feminists said, and did not just attack her based on moronic misrepresentations of her position, and then hold to your misrepresentation, despite her pointing out your stupidity over and over and over again.

I didn't attack anyone. I recognized both her right and the right of the advertiser without taking a position.

Likewise, I do not deny you your position. But I do take exception to it.

I'm not sure what this exercise was supposed to prove. You are the one twisting yourself into contortions over this.

Can you not see how it is an analogy for the Kneelers and their critics?


I am complaining about their message. Not their stated messages, ie sell beer/protest, but on the greater meta message of sexism/anti-Americanism.



IN doing so, i am not attacking their right to speech, but judging the content of their message and them for making it.



They are sexist/anti-American assholes.

 

[Tehon]

This entire argument is predicated on you pretending to not understand why the players are protesting.

NOt at all.


NOthing in my argument, is based on their stated reason at all.


My point is about the meanings of their actual actions.



THink of it this way,


this could be seen as an ad for beer.

But some girl complained it was sexist, would you respond that they have a right to advertise beer?

Yes, they have a right to advertise beer.

Yep. You did not feel a need to pretend that a complaint about the sexism of the ad, was a complaint about advertising.

A complaint about the message, the underlying message, beyond the stated message, is not a denial of their right to free speech.



You listened to what the hypothetical feminists said, and did not just attack her based on moronic misrepresentations of her position, and then hold to your misrepresentation, despite her pointing out your stupidity over and over and over again.

I didn't attack anyone. I recognized both her right and the right of the advertiser without taking a position.

Likewise, I do not deny you your position. But I do take exception to it.

I'm not sure what this exercise was supposed to prove. You are the one twisting yourself into contortions over this.

Can you not see how it is an analogy for the Kneelers and their critics?


I am complaining about their message. Not their stated messages, ie sell beer/protest, but on the greater meta message of sexism/anti-Americanism.



IN doing so, i am not attacking their right to speech, but judging the content of their message and them for making it.



They are sexist/anti-American assholes.

Protesting is not anti American.

 

[katsteve2012]

Peacefully protesting is not disloyalty.

Art Thiel: There’s a difference between dissent and disloyalty | HeraldNet.com

If someone asks you to wave your hands to show support for Trump, and you put your hands in your pockets,


are you showing support for Trump?

What does Trump have to do with this topic? Besides him being a dumbass and referring to the protestors as SOB'S and demanding that they be "fired"?

But that's a funny question. What is your ulterior motive for asking it?

It is clearly a hypothetical question to get you to face the point I am making that you are pretending to be too stupid to understand. As you well know, liar.


I repeat my question.




If someone asks you to wave your hands to show support for Trump, and you put your hands in your pockets,
are you showing support for Trump?

It's a hypothetical question that has nothing to do with this thread. And you pretending to be stupid enough to think it serves a point is the most humorous statement that you've made all morning.

If you answered the question, you would demonstrate knowing that doing the opposite of what is asked to show a certain response, is to communicate the opposite response.


Thus, if I asked you to raise your hand if you support Trump and instead you shoved them deep into your pockets,


you are demonstrating that you do not support Trump or that you are "anti-Trump".


The same way if I asked you to stand to show support for America, and instead you knelt, you would be communicating that you do not support America, or that you are Anti-American.

Which was painfully obvious. YOur pretense that you did not get that, is a lie.

On the other hand, here is a challenge for you. Point out how I am "lying" about anything.

Just did. Right above. LIar.

Besides you repeating ad nauseam that the protestors are ""anti American", you have not made a lucid point, nor cited any law, or posted any link to support that accusation.

Totally have. And you know it. Liar.

And while you're figuring that out, it's obvious that you follow a pattern in everything that you post.

You use the same words repeatedly,

Because you libs are denying the obvious reality. I have simplified the argument down to the most concise and obvious words, to try make your ridiculous denials, obvious to the point that I get browbeat you libs into admitting the truth.

and when someone disagrees with you, your first response is to say they are a "lib or leftie",

Nope. My first response is to address their reason for disagreeing. If they are kind enough to share it, instead of just calling me names.

I often mention that they are libs or lefties, because it is generally relevant.

next you try to bait them with questions that do not pertain to the subject matter, next, when they don't fall for it, then you resort to claiming that their argument is a lie. Then last you resort to name calling.

My question about raising your hand to support Trump was obviously asked to make a relevant point about the topic. You are lying in pretending to be too stupid to understand that.


This is a common defense with libs, when presented with truths they don't like. See how that is relevant too?

And I called you a name, because you fucking deserve it for making a simple question into fucking torture.


Why are you such an asshole?

I have a 5 year old niece who converses in a similar manner, when she does not get her way.

I believe that. I can believe that when she asks questions to get at the reason for your position, that you just stone wall further and ridicule her for asking questions.


I always try to answer such questions from my daughter, unless she is doing her delaying bedtime tactic.


I'm raising her to ask questions.

In fact I do encourage my niece to ask questions. But I also encourage her to understand, that it is a persons FREEDOM of choice to choose not to answer, and to respect that choice. Something that you have obviously not learned during your own lifetime.


Thank you for proving my earlier point. You just showcased every behavior that I described that you exhibit in every thread that you post in.



*You use the same words repeatedly.

*When someone disagrees with you, your first response is to say they are a "lib". When you have no idea what their personal political beliefs are.

*You attempt to change the topic with questions that do not pertain to the subject matter, while pretending that you ask off topic questions to "prove a point". A point that makes no sense.

*When others don't fall for your childish tactics, then you resort to claiming that their argument is a "lie". The same behavior that you are so quick to say that so called "libs" are guilty of.

*Next, you resort to name calling. Another childish action.....or maybe it is actually the sign of a feeble mind, attempting to wage an argument that you are getting your dumb ass handed to you in.

As far as me turning your stupid question into "torture". You tortured yourself. Because I would not play your silly game. That is childish reasoning.

And lastly, to answer your question, "Why am I an asshole"?

Because I am not cordial towards, nor do I have a shred of tolerance for immature, pompous, sanctimonious, judgmental individuals, with over inflated egos who would fall the equivalent of 10 stories after getting knocked off of their high horse.

Fuck you.

 

[Correll]

NOt at all.


NOthing in my argument, is based on their stated reason at all.


My point is about the meanings of their actual actions.



THink of it this way,


this could be seen as an ad for beer.

But some girl complained it was sexist, would you respond that they have a right to advertise beer?

Yes, they have a right to advertise beer.

Yep. You did not feel a need to pretend that a complaint about the sexism of the ad, was a complaint about advertising.

A complaint about the message, the underlying message, beyond the stated message, is not a denial of their right to free speech.



You listened to what the hypothetical feminists said, and did not just attack her based on moronic misrepresentations of her position, and then hold to your misrepresentation, despite her pointing out your stupidity over and over and over again.

I didn't attack anyone. I recognized both her right and the right of the advertiser without taking a position.

Likewise, I do not deny you your position. But I do take exception to it.

I'm not sure what this exercise was supposed to prove. You are the one twisting yourself into contortions over this.

Can you not see how it is an analogy for the Kneelers and their critics?


I am complaining about their message. Not their stated messages, ie sell beer/protest, but on the greater meta message of sexism/anti-Americanism.



IN doing so, i am not attacking their right to speech, but judging the content of their message and them for making it.



They are sexist/anti-American assholes.

Protesting is not anti American.

Are you really defending this?

 

[Correll]

If someone asks you to wave your hands to show support for Trump, and you put your hands in your pockets,


are you showing support for Trump?

What does Trump have to do with this topic? Besides him being a dumbass and referring to the protestors as SOB'S and demanding that they be "fired"?

But that's a funny question. What is your ulterior motive for asking it?

It is clearly a hypothetical question to get you to face the point I am making that you are pretending to be too stupid to understand. As you well know, liar.


I repeat my question.




If someone asks you to wave your hands to show support for Trump, and you put your hands in your pockets,
are you showing support for Trump?

It's a hypothetical question that has nothing to do with this thread. And you pretending to be stupid enough to think it serves a point is the most humorous statement that you've made all morning.

If you answered the question, you would demonstrate knowing that doing the opposite of what is asked to show a certain response, is to communicate the opposite response.


Thus, if I asked you to raise your hand if you support Trump and instead you shoved them deep into your pockets,


you are demonstrating that you do not support Trump or that you are "anti-Trump".


The same way if I asked you to stand to show support for America, and instead you knelt, you would be communicating that you do not support America, or that you are Anti-American.

Which was painfully obvious. YOur pretense that you did not get that, is a lie.

On the other hand, here is a challenge for you. Point out how I am "lying" about anything.

Just did. Right above. LIar.

Besides you repeating ad nauseam that the protestors are ""anti American", you have not made a lucid point, nor cited any law, or posted any link to support that accusation.

Totally have. And you know it. Liar.

And while you're figuring that out, it's obvious that you follow a pattern in everything that you post.

You use the same words repeatedly,

Because you libs are denying the obvious reality. I have simplified the argument down to the most concise and obvious words, to try make your ridiculous denials, obvious to the point that I get browbeat you libs into admitting the truth.

and when someone disagrees with you, your first response is to say they are a "lib or leftie",

Nope. My first response is to address their reason for disagreeing. If they are kind enough to share it, instead of just calling me names.

I often mention that they are libs or lefties, because it is generally relevant.

next you try to bait them with questions that do not pertain to the subject matter, next, when they don't fall for it, then you resort to claiming that their argument is a lie. Then last you resort to name calling.

My question about raising your hand to support Trump was obviously asked to make a relevant point about the topic. You are lying in pretending to be too stupid to understand that.


This is a common defense with libs, when presented with truths they don't like. See how that is relevant too?

And I called you a name, because you fucking deserve it for making a simple question into fucking torture.


Why are you such an asshole?

I have a 5 year old niece who converses in a similar manner, when she does not get her way.

I believe that. I can believe that when she asks questions to get at the reason for your position, that you just stone wall further and ridicule her for asking questions.


I always try to answer such questions from my daughter, unless she is doing her delaying bedtime tactic.


I'm raising her to ask questions.

In fact I do encourage my niece to ask questions. But I also encourage her to understand, that it is a persons FREEDOM of choice to choose not to answer, and to respect that choice. Something that you have obviously not learned during your own lifetime.


Thank you for proving my earlier point. You just showcased every behavior that I described that you exhibit in every thread that you post in.



*You use the same words repeatedly.

*When someone disagrees with you, your first response is to say they are a "lib". When you have no idea what their personal political beliefs are.

*You attempt to change the topic with questions that do not pertain to the subject matter, while pretending that you ask off topic questions to "prove a point". A point that makes no sense.

*When others don't fall for your childish tactics, then you resort to claiming that their argument is a "lie". The same behavior that you are so quick to say that so called "libs" are guilty of.

*Next, you resort to name calling. Another childish action.....or maybe it is actually the sign of a feeble mind, attempting to wage an argument that you are getting your dumb ass handed to you in.

As far as me turning your stupid question into "torture". You tortured yourself. Because I would not play your silly game. That is childish reasoning.

And lastly, to answer your question, "Why am I an asshole"?

Because I am not cordial towards, nor do I have a shred of tolerance for immature, pompous, sanctimonious, judgmental individuals, with over inflated egos who would fall the equivalent of 10 stories after getting knocked off of their high horse.

Fuck you.

If you don't want to answer questions, then you should not be here. Discussion is a two way street.


During a ritual where standing is done to show respect they did the opposite.


By doing that, they were/are showing the opposite of respect, ie disrespect.



That is the truth that I have rubbed in your face, and the reason you are an asshole to me, is not because of any personal flaws I may or may not have, but because I have called you on your bullshit.



Fuck you.

 

[Tehon]

Yes, they have a right to advertise beer.

Yep. You did not feel a need to pretend that a complaint about the sexism of the ad, was a complaint about advertising.

A complaint about the message, the underlying message, beyond the stated message, is not a denial of their right to free speech.



You listened to what the hypothetical feminists said, and did not just attack her based on moronic misrepresentations of her position, and then hold to your misrepresentation, despite her pointing out your stupidity over and over and over again.

I didn't attack anyone. I recognized both her right and the right of the advertiser without taking a position.

Likewise, I do not deny you your position. But I do take exception to it.

I'm not sure what this exercise was supposed to prove. You are the one twisting yourself into contortions over this.

Can you not see how it is an analogy for the Kneelers and their critics?


I am complaining about their message. Not their stated messages, ie sell beer/protest, but on the greater meta message of sexism/anti-Americanism.



IN doing so, i am not attacking their right to speech, but judging the content of their message and them for making it.



They are sexist/anti-American assholes.

Protesting is not anti American.

Are you really defending this?

They have a right to protest.

 

[Correll]

Yep. You did not feel a need to pretend that a complaint about the sexism of the ad, was a complaint about advertising.

A complaint about the message, the underlying message, beyond the stated message, is not a denial of their right to free speech.



You listened to what the hypothetical feminists said, and did not just attack her based on moronic misrepresentations of her position, and then hold to your misrepresentation, despite her pointing out your stupidity over and over and over again.

I didn't attack anyone. I recognized both her right and the right of the advertiser without taking a position.

Likewise, I do not deny you your position. But I do take exception to it.

I'm not sure what this exercise was supposed to prove. You are the one twisting yourself into contortions over this.

Can you not see how it is an analogy for the Kneelers and their critics?


I am complaining about their message. Not their stated messages, ie sell beer/protest, but on the greater meta message of sexism/anti-Americanism.



IN doing so, i am not attacking their right to speech, but judging the content of their message and them for making it.



They are sexist/anti-American assholes.

Protesting is not anti American.

Are you really defending this?

They have a right to protest.

You made a blanket statement that "Protesting is not anti American".


THus, by that logic, you are defending "BLOOD AND SOIL!".


Would you like to clarify your statement about "all protests"?

 

[Tehon]

I didn't attack anyone. I recognized both her right and the right of the advertiser without taking a position.

Likewise, I do not deny you your position. But I do take exception to it.

I'm not sure what this exercise was supposed to prove. You are the one twisting yourself into contortions over this.

Can you not see how it is an analogy for the Kneelers and their critics?


I am complaining about their message. Not their stated messages, ie sell beer/protest, but on the greater meta message of sexism/anti-Americanism.



IN doing so, i am not attacking their right to speech, but judging the content of their message and them for making it.



They are sexist/anti-American assholes.

Protesting is not anti American.

Are you really defending this?

They have a right to protest.

You made a blanket statement that "Protesting is not anti American".


THus, by that logic, you are defending "BLOOD AND SOIL!".


Would you like to clarify your statement about "all protests"?

They have a right to protest. I can not make it any more clear than that.

 

[Correll]

Can you not see how it is an analogy for the Kneelers and their critics?


I am complaining about their message. Not their stated messages, ie sell beer/protest, but on the greater meta message of sexism/anti-Americanism.



IN doing so, i am not attacking their right to speech, but judging the content of their message and them for making it.



They are sexist/anti-American assholes.

Protesting is not anti American.

Are you really defending this?

They have a right to protest.

You made a blanket statement that "Protesting is not anti American".


THus, by that logic, you are defending "BLOOD AND SOIL!".


Would you like to clarify your statement about "all protests"?

They have a right to protest. I can not make it any more clear than that.

No one is saying they don't.


YOu libs keep going back to that, when you want to dodge the truth, ie that the kneelers are anti-American pieces of shit.


It is a dodge. You are changing the subject to a strawman of your own invention.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Un
A live and let live society that obeys the laws of the land and repects the rights of others, IS patriotic in my opinion.

Rituals do not necessarily define patriotism.

But mutual respect and actions that support the rights that come with being a citizen in this country,does

Ok. Using the normal definition of the word,


Patriotism - Wikipedia


"Patriotism or national pride is the ideology of love and devotion to a homeland, and a sense of alliance with other citizens who share the same values. This attachment can be a combination of many different features relating to one's own homeland, including ethnic, cultural, political or historical aspects. "




do you think that Patriotism is flourishing in this nation?


Do you think it should flourish?

The kneelers qualify as patriotic on all of those counts.

Bullshit.

This attachment can be a combination of many different features relating to one's own homeland, including ethnic, cultural, political or historical aspects. "
Its your definition mate.
I think it also shows other positive traits such as support for the downtrodden and evidence of a social conscience by people who could easily look the other way.

Dude. you are jumping in and answering the wrong question, and doing it badly.

But I will address your point anyway.


By disrespecting the symbol of the nation as a whole, for not agreeing with them on a certain issue, they are stating that the nation has failed to live up to their standards, in their view,


AND THAT THUS, THEY DO NOT FEEL LOYALTY TO IT, OR THEIR FELLOW CITIZENS.



That is not patriotic.


To do what you are claiming they are doing, they would have to somehow express their position, WHILE SAYING THEY STILL FEEL LOYALTY TO THE NATION AND THEIR FELLOW CITIZENS.


That would be patriotic, but it is not what they did.



AND I think it is worth noting that you have admitted that you feel no patriotism to your nation, or your fellow citizens.

Well I quoted your definition and explained that all of those factors were covered by what the kneelers were doing. You havent even attempted to respond apart from capitalising your previous statements. Hint - it doesnt make them right. It is blindingly obvious that these guys are showing loyalty in very difficult circumstances. One of them sacrificed his career for it. That takes some guts. I seem to remember some boxer guy doing similar back in the 60s. I think that he was vilified for it as well.

These young men are engaged in the political process and are highlighting issues in the country. America should be proud of these youngsters.

 

[Correll]

Ok. Using the normal definition of the word,


Patriotism - Wikipedia


"Patriotism or national pride is the ideology of love and devotion to a homeland, and a sense of alliance with other citizens who share the same values. This attachment can be a combination of many different features relating to one's own homeland, including ethnic, cultural, political or historical aspects. "




do you think that Patriotism is flourishing in this nation?


Do you think it should flourish?

The kneelers qualify as patriotic on all of those counts.

Bullshit.

This attachment can be a combination of many different features relating to one's own homeland, including ethnic, cultural, political or historical aspects. "
Its your definition mate.
I think it also shows other positive traits such as support for the downtrodden and evidence of a social conscience by people who could easily look the other way.

Dude. you are jumping in and answering the wrong question, and doing it badly.

But I will address your point anyway.


By disrespecting the symbol of the nation as a whole, for not agreeing with them on a certain issue, they are stating that the nation has failed to live up to their standards, in their view,


AND THAT THUS, THEY DO NOT FEEL LOYALTY TO IT, OR THEIR FELLOW CITIZENS.



That is not patriotic.


To do what you are claiming they are doing, they would have to somehow express their position, WHILE SAYING THEY STILL FEEL LOYALTY TO THE NATION AND THEIR FELLOW CITIZENS.


That would be patriotic, but it is not what they did.



AND I think it is worth noting that you have admitted that you feel no patriotism to your nation, or your fellow citizens.

Well I quoted your definition and explained that all of those factors were covered by what the kneelers were doing. You havent even attempted to respond apart from capitalising your previous statements. Hint - it doesnt make them right. It is blindingly obvious that these guys are showing loyalty in very difficult circumstances. One of them sacrificed his career for it. That takes some guts. I seem to remember some boxer guy doing similar back in the 60s. I think that he was vilified for it as well.

These young men are engaged in the political process and are highlighting issues in the country. America should be proud of these youngsters.

You could have the opinion that the kneelers are demonstrating an adherence to one of the "aspects" you bolded,

but the way they are demonstrating their particular attachment is showing that their attachment is


NOT to their nation as a whole. Or they would have STOOD to show "Devotion to their homeland".




YOu can believe that what they are "attached" to is a good thing, but that does not mean that they are not stating that the nation as a whole, is, in their opinion on board with it.


And thus, they are NOT attached to the nation as a whole.


They are are NOT patriotic.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

The kneelers qualify as patriotic on all of those counts.

Bullshit.

This attachment can be a combination of many different features relating to one's own homeland, including ethnic, cultural, political or historical aspects. "
Its your definition mate.
I think it also shows other positive traits such as support for the downtrodden and evidence of a social conscience by people who could easily look the other way.

Dude. you are jumping in and answering the wrong question, and doing it badly.

But I will address your point anyway.


By disrespecting the symbol of the nation as a whole, for not agreeing with them on a certain issue, they are stating that the nation has failed to live up to their standards, in their view,


AND THAT THUS, THEY DO NOT FEEL LOYALTY TO IT, OR THEIR FELLOW CITIZENS.



That is not patriotic.


To do what you are claiming they are doing, they would have to somehow express their position, WHILE SAYING THEY STILL FEEL LOYALTY TO THE NATION AND THEIR FELLOW CITIZENS.


That would be patriotic, but it is not what they did.



AND I think it is worth noting that you have admitted that you feel no patriotism to your nation, or your fellow citizens.

Well I quoted your definition and explained that all of those factors were covered by what the kneelers were doing. You havent even attempted to respond apart from capitalising your previous statements. Hint - it doesnt make them right. It is blindingly obvious that these guys are showing loyalty in very difficult circumstances. One of them sacrificed his career for it. That takes some guts. I seem to remember some boxer guy doing similar back in the 60s. I think that he was vilified for it as well.

These young men are engaged in the political process and are highlighting issues in the country. America should be proud of these youngsters.

You could have the opinion that the kneelers are demonstrating an adherence to one of the "aspects" you bolded,

but the way they are demonstrating their particular attachment is showing that their attachment is


NOT to their nation as a whole. Or they would have STOOD to show "Devotion to their homeland".




YOu can believe that what they are "attached" to is a good thing, but that does not mean that they are not stating that the nation as a whole, is, in their opinion on board with it.


And thus, they are NOT attached to the nation as a whole.


They are are NOT patriotic.

Oh dear. America would be a better place if their concerns were heeded. Everyone would benefit.

 

[Correll]

Bullshit.

This attachment can be a combination of many different features relating to one's own homeland, including ethnic, cultural, political or historical aspects. "
Its your definition mate.
I think it also shows other positive traits such as support for the downtrodden and evidence of a social conscience by people who could easily look the other way.

Dude. you are jumping in and answering the wrong question, and doing it badly.

But I will address your point anyway.


By disrespecting the symbol of the nation as a whole, for not agreeing with them on a certain issue, they are stating that the nation has failed to live up to their standards, in their view,


AND THAT THUS, THEY DO NOT FEEL LOYALTY TO IT, OR THEIR FELLOW CITIZENS.



That is not patriotic.


To do what you are claiming they are doing, they would have to somehow express their position, WHILE SAYING THEY STILL FEEL LOYALTY TO THE NATION AND THEIR FELLOW CITIZENS.


That would be patriotic, but it is not what they did.



AND I think it is worth noting that you have admitted that you feel no patriotism to your nation, or your fellow citizens.

Well I quoted your definition and explained that all of those factors were covered by what the kneelers were doing. You havent even attempted to respond apart from capitalising your previous statements. Hint - it doesnt make them right. It is blindingly obvious that these guys are showing loyalty in very difficult circumstances. One of them sacrificed his career for it. That takes some guts. I seem to remember some boxer guy doing similar back in the 60s. I think that he was vilified for it as well.

These young men are engaged in the political process and are highlighting issues in the country. America should be proud of these youngsters.

You could have the opinion that the kneelers are demonstrating an adherence to one of the "aspects" you bolded,

but the way they are demonstrating their particular attachment is showing that their attachment is


NOT to their nation as a whole. Or they would have STOOD to show "Devotion to their homeland".




YOu can believe that what they are "attached" to is a good thing, but that does not mean that they are not stating that the nation as a whole, is, in their opinion on board with it.


And thus, they are NOT attached to the nation as a whole.


They are are NOT patriotic.

Oh dear. America would be a better place if their concerns were heeded. Everyone would benefit.

If they wanted to have their concerns heeded, they should have not opened up with disrespecting and insulting their fellow citizens.


As it stands, the only thing I care to discuss about them, is how they are anti-American pieces of shit that should be cast out of society.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

This attachment can be a combination of many different features relating to one's own homeland, including ethnic, cultural, political or historical aspects. "
Its your definition mate.
I think it also shows other positive traits such as support for the downtrodden and evidence of a social conscience by people who could easily look the other way.

Dude. you are jumping in and answering the wrong question, and doing it badly.

But I will address your point anyway.


By disrespecting the symbol of the nation as a whole, for not agreeing with them on a certain issue, they are stating that the nation has failed to live up to their standards, in their view,


AND THAT THUS, THEY DO NOT FEEL LOYALTY TO IT, OR THEIR FELLOW CITIZENS.



That is not patriotic.


To do what you are claiming they are doing, they would have to somehow express their position, WHILE SAYING THEY STILL FEEL LOYALTY TO THE NATION AND THEIR FELLOW CITIZENS.


That would be patriotic, but it is not what they did.



AND I think it is worth noting that you have admitted that you feel no patriotism to your nation, or your fellow citizens.

Well I quoted your definition and explained that all of those factors were covered by what the kneelers were doing. You havent even attempted to respond apart from capitalising your previous statements. Hint - it doesnt make them right. It is blindingly obvious that these guys are showing loyalty in very difficult circumstances. One of them sacrificed his career for it. That takes some guts. I seem to remember some boxer guy doing similar back in the 60s. I think that he was vilified for it as well.

These young men are engaged in the political process and are highlighting issues in the country. America should be proud of these youngsters.

You could have the opinion that the kneelers are demonstrating an adherence to one of the "aspects" you bolded,

but the way they are demonstrating their particular attachment is showing that their attachment is


NOT to their nation as a whole. Or they would have STOOD to show "Devotion to their homeland".




YOu can believe that what they are "attached" to is a good thing, but that does not mean that they are not stating that the nation as a whole, is, in their opinion on board with it.


And thus, they are NOT attached to the nation as a whole.


They are are NOT patriotic.

Oh dear. America would be a better place if their concerns were heeded. Everyone would benefit.

If they wanted to have their concerns heeded, they should have not opened up with disrespecting and insulting their fellow citizens.


As it stands, the only thing I care to discuss about them, is how they are anti-American pieces of shit that should be cast out of society.

They are society. They entertain millions,pay huge taxes and obey the laws of the country. What else would you have them do ?

 

[Correll]

Dude. you are jumping in and answering the wrong question, and doing it badly.

But I will address your point anyway.


By disrespecting the symbol of the nation as a whole, for not agreeing with them on a certain issue, they are stating that the nation has failed to live up to their standards, in their view,


AND THAT THUS, THEY DO NOT FEEL LOYALTY TO IT, OR THEIR FELLOW CITIZENS.



That is not patriotic.


To do what you are claiming they are doing, they would have to somehow express their position, WHILE SAYING THEY STILL FEEL LOYALTY TO THE NATION AND THEIR FELLOW CITIZENS.


That would be patriotic, but it is not what they did.



AND I think it is worth noting that you have admitted that you feel no patriotism to your nation, or your fellow citizens.

Well I quoted your definition and explained that all of those factors were covered by what the kneelers were doing. You havent even attempted to respond apart from capitalising your previous statements. Hint - it doesnt make them right. It is blindingly obvious that these guys are showing loyalty in very difficult circumstances. One of them sacrificed his career for it. That takes some guts. I seem to remember some boxer guy doing similar back in the 60s. I think that he was vilified for it as well.

These young men are engaged in the political process and are highlighting issues in the country. America should be proud of these youngsters.

You could have the opinion that the kneelers are demonstrating an adherence to one of the "aspects" you bolded,

but the way they are demonstrating their particular attachment is showing that their attachment is


NOT to their nation as a whole. Or they would have STOOD to show "Devotion to their homeland".




YOu can believe that what they are "attached" to is a good thing, but that does not mean that they are not stating that the nation as a whole, is, in their opinion on board with it.


And thus, they are NOT attached to the nation as a whole.


They are are NOT patriotic.

Oh dear. America would be a better place if their concerns were heeded. Everyone would benefit.

If they wanted to have their concerns heeded, they should have not opened up with disrespecting and insulting their fellow citizens.


As it stands, the only thing I care to discuss about them, is how they are anti-American pieces of shit that should be cast out of society.

They are society. They entertain millions,pay huge taxes and obey the laws of the country. What else would you have them do ?

THey are not society.

I would have them, if they personally do not feel any patriotism to their nation, at least show some respect to their fans and fellow players who do, and not actively show disrespect and disloyalty during the National Anthem.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Well I quoted your definition and explained that all of those factors were covered by what the kneelers were doing. You havent even attempted to respond apart from capitalising your previous statements. Hint - it doesnt make them right. It is blindingly obvious that these guys are showing loyalty in very difficult circumstances. One of them sacrificed his career for it. That takes some guts. I seem to remember some boxer guy doing similar back in the 60s. I think that he was vilified for it as well.

These young men are engaged in the political process and are highlighting issues in the country. America should be proud of these youngsters.

You could have the opinion that the kneelers are demonstrating an adherence to one of the "aspects" you bolded,

but the way they are demonstrating their particular attachment is showing that their attachment is


NOT to their nation as a whole. Or they would have STOOD to show "Devotion to their homeland".




YOu can believe that what they are "attached" to is a good thing, but that does not mean that they are not stating that the nation as a whole, is, in their opinion on board with it.


And thus, they are NOT attached to the nation as a whole.


They are are NOT patriotic.

Oh dear. America would be a better place if their concerns were heeded. Everyone would benefit.

If they wanted to have their concerns heeded, they should have not opened up with disrespecting and insulting their fellow citizens.


As it stands, the only thing I care to discuss about them, is how they are anti-American pieces of shit that should be cast out of society.

They are society. They entertain millions,pay huge taxes and obey the laws of the country. What else would you have them do ?

THey are not society.

I would have them, if they personally do not feel any patriotism to their nation, at least show some respect to their fans and fellow players who do, and not actively show disrespect and disloyalty during the National Anthem.

They tick all the boxes on your definition of patriotism. I have already explained this to you.

 

[Tehon]

Protesting is not anti American.

Are you really defending this?

They have a right to protest.

You made a blanket statement that "Protesting is not anti American".


THus, by that logic, you are defending "BLOOD AND SOIL!".


Would you like to clarify your statement about "all protests"?

They have a right to protest. I can not make it any more clear than that.

No one is saying they don't.


YOu libs keep going back to that, when you want to dodge the truth, ie that the kneelers are anti-American pieces of shit.


It is a dodge. You are changing the subject to a strawman of your own invention.

Who brought advertising and white supremacy protestors into the conversation? Not me.

 

[katsteve2012]

What does Trump have to do with this topic? Besides him being a dumbass and referring to the protestors as SOB'S and demanding that they be "fired"?

But that's a funny question. What is your ulterior motive for asking it?

It is clearly a hypothetical question to get you to face the point I am making that you are pretending to be too stupid to understand. As you well know, liar.


I repeat my question.




If someone asks you to wave your hands to show support for Trump, and you put your hands in your pockets,
are you showing support for Trump?

It's a hypothetical question that has nothing to do with this thread. And you pretending to be stupid enough to think it serves a point is the most humorous statement that you've made all morning.

If you answered the question, you would demonstrate knowing that doing the opposite of what is asked to show a certain response, is to communicate the opposite response.


Thus, if I asked you to raise your hand if you support Trump and instead you shoved them deep into your pockets,


you are demonstrating that you do not support Trump or that you are "anti-Trump".


The same way if I asked you to stand to show support for America, and instead you knelt, you would be communicating that you do not support America, or that you are Anti-American.

Which was painfully obvious. YOur pretense that you did not get that, is a lie.

On the other hand, here is a challenge for you. Point out how I am "lying" about anything.

Just did. Right above. LIar.

Besides you repeating ad nauseam that the protestors are ""anti American", you have not made a lucid point, nor cited any law, or posted any link to support that accusation.

Totally have. And you know it. Liar.

And while you're figuring that out, it's obvious that you follow a pattern in everything that you post.

You use the same words repeatedly,

Because you libs are denying the obvious reality. I have simplified the argument down to the most concise and obvious words, to try make your ridiculous denials, obvious to the point that I get browbeat you libs into admitting the truth.

and when someone disagrees with you, your first response is to say they are a "lib or leftie",

Nope. My first response is to address their reason for disagreeing. If they are kind enough to share it, instead of just calling me names.

I often mention that they are libs or lefties, because it is generally relevant.

next you try to bait them with questions that do not pertain to the subject matter, next, when they don't fall for it, then you resort to claiming that their argument is a lie. Then last you resort to name calling.

My question about raising your hand to support Trump was obviously asked to make a relevant point about the topic. You are lying in pretending to be too stupid to understand that.


This is a common defense with libs, when presented with truths they don't like. See how that is relevant too?

And I called you a name, because you fucking deserve it for making a simple question into fucking torture.


Why are you such an asshole?

I have a 5 year old niece who converses in a similar manner, when she does not get her way.

I believe that. I can believe that when she asks questions to get at the reason for your position, that you just stone wall further and ridicule her for asking questions.


I always try to answer such questions from my daughter, unless she is doing her delaying bedtime tactic.


I'm raising her to ask questions.

In fact I do encourage my niece to ask questions. But I also encourage her to understand, that it is a persons FREEDOM of choice to choose not to answer, and to respect that choice. Something that you have obviously not learned during your own lifetime.


Thank you for proving my earlier point. You just showcased every behavior that I described that you exhibit in every thread that you post in.



*You use the same words repeatedly.

*When someone disagrees with you, your first response is to say they are a "lib". When you have no idea what their personal political beliefs are.

*You attempt to change the topic with questions that do not pertain to the subject matter, while pretending that you ask off topic questions to "prove a point". A point that makes no sense.

*When others don't fall for your childish tactics, then you resort to claiming that their argument is a "lie". The same behavior that you are so quick to say that so called "libs" are guilty of.

*Next, you resort to name calling. Another childish action.....or maybe it is actually the sign of a feeble mind, attempting to wage an argument that you are getting your dumb ass handed to you in.

As far as me turning your stupid question into "torture". You tortured yourself. Because I would not play your silly game. That is childish reasoning.

And lastly, to answer your question, "Why am I an asshole"?

Because I am not cordial towards, nor do I have a shred of tolerance for immature, pompous, sanctimonious, judgmental individuals, with over inflated egos who would fall the equivalent of 10 stories after getting knocked off of their high horse.

Fuck you.

If you don't want to answer questions, then you should not be here. Discussion is a two way street.


During a ritual where standing is done to show respect they did the opposite.


By doing that, they were/are showing the opposite of respect, ie disrespect.



That is the truth that I have rubbed in your face, and the reason you are an asshole to me, is not because of any personal flaws I may or may not have, but because I have called you on your bullshit.



Fuck you.

I will be the one who determines if I should be here or not. AND I will choose what questions that I will answer. If that bothers you, then don't address me.

Clear?


I actually agree that "discussion is a two way street". The problem with you is that YOU haven't got a clue what that looks like.

A person like you who repeats phrases like "my point stands", and consistently rushes to judgement without objectivity and has the gall to label people who do not express their dissent in a manner that makes YOU comfortable, is not interested in "discussion" in an adult manner.

You didn't "call me" on a damn thing, except me not listening to you refer to people that you dont approve of as "anti American". The humor and irony in that allegation from you is that they are exercising an AMERICAN right to protest peacefully and are obeying the law.

You are too thick headed and ignorant to understand that they are not wrong. They are more pro American than a moralizing creep like YOU.

I won't waste valuable time outlining your "personal flaws", because as we know, this is a free country.

Which means that you are free to be a fucking idiot as well as a pompous asshole.

Carry on.

 

[Correll]

You could have the opinion that the kneelers are demonstrating an adherence to one of the "aspects" you bolded,

but the way they are demonstrating their particular attachment is showing that their attachment is


NOT to their nation as a whole. Or they would have STOOD to show "Devotion to their homeland".




YOu can believe that what they are "attached" to is a good thing, but that does not mean that they are not stating that the nation as a whole, is, in their opinion on board with it.


And thus, they are NOT attached to the nation as a whole.


They are are NOT patriotic.

Oh dear. America would be a better place if their concerns were heeded. Everyone would benefit.

If they wanted to have their concerns heeded, they should have not opened up with disrespecting and insulting their fellow citizens.


As it stands, the only thing I care to discuss about them, is how they are anti-American pieces of shit that should be cast out of society.

They are society. They entertain millions,pay huge taxes and obey the laws of the country. What else would you have them do ?

THey are not society.

I would have them, if they personally do not feel any patriotism to their nation, at least show some respect to their fans and fellow players who do, and not actively show disrespect and disloyalty during the National Anthem.

They tick all the boxes on your definition of patriotism. I have already explained this to you.

They specifically expressed their LACK of attachment to their homeland.


They are not patriots. They are the opposite of patriots.

 

[Correll]

Are you really defending this?

They have a right to protest.

You made a blanket statement that "Protesting is not anti American".


THus, by that logic, you are defending "BLOOD AND SOIL!".


Would you like to clarify your statement about "all protests"?

They have a right to protest. I can not make it any more clear than that.

No one is saying they don't.


YOu libs keep going back to that, when you want to dodge the truth, ie that the kneelers are anti-American pieces of shit.


It is a dodge. You are changing the subject to a strawman of your own invention.

Who brought advertising and white supremacy protestors into the conversation? Not me.

To demonstrate the absurdity of your position.



YOu have defended their right to speech. Which no one is trying to take away.


You have stated that "protesting is not anti-America" and did not budge on that, even when faced with a White Supremacist protest.


You did not have the honesty to admit the obvious truth, ie that some protests are anti-American.


YOu put forth strawmen, and dodge, all to avoid the obvious and simple truth.



Kneeling during the National Anthem is an expression of anti-Americanism.