DOJ to Colorado Family: Give Up Your Religion or Your Business

[JoeB131]

A Christian theocracy? How would that work genus? These people are Christians and have a moral objection to abortion and birth control their church teaches them that. The federal government has no right to force them to fund it, Obama signs an executive order "no funding for abortion in the health care law, so they push this down the throat of employers Obama is a dishonest piece of shit. Let women pay for their own friken abortion pills

You do know there's a difference between birth control pills and abortion, right?

 

[OODA_Loop]

I worked with a gal once who was fired after she brought her partner to the company holiday party.

I think you are lying.

 

[konradv]

Offering insurance isn't against anyone's religion. Making employees accept your personal precepts shouldn't be protected under the 1st amendment. It'd be no different than enforcing shariah law.

 

[JoeB131]

I worked with a gal once who was fired after she brought her partner to the company holiday party.

I think you are lying.

Wow, that's a brilliant comeback.

besides the fact I've told this story before, what part of it sounds so unbelievable to you?

 

[Jroc]

A Christian theocracy? How would that work genus? These people are Christians and have a moral objection to abortion and birth control their church teaches them that. The federal government has no right to force them to fund it, Obama signs an executive order "no funding for abortion in the health care law, so they push this down the throat of employers Obama is a dishonest piece of shit. Let women pay for their own friken abortion pills

You do know there's a difference between birth control pills and abortion, right?

Christians and have a moral objection to abortion and birth control their church teaches them that.

 

[uscitizen]

I still recall when it was found out that the RNC employees Health INsurance plan covered abortions

I would love to know if any claims on that coverage were made.

 

[WillowTree]

The Justice Department last week presented the Newland family of Colorado--who own Hercules Industries, a heating, ventilation and air-conditioning business--with what amounted to an ultimatum: Give up your religion or your business.

“Hercules Industries has ‘made no showing of a religious belief which requires that [it] engage in the [HVAC] business,” the Justice Department said in a formal filing in the U.S. District Court for the District of Colorado.

In response to the Justice Department’s argument that the Newlands can either give up practicing their religion or give up owning their business, the Alliance Defending Freedom, which is representing the family, said in a reply brief: "[T]o the extent the government is arguing that its mandate does not really burden the Newlands because they are free to abandon their jobs, their livelihoods, and their property so that others can take over Hercules and comply, this expulsion from business would be an extreme form of government burden.”

DOJ to Colorado Family: Give Up Your Religion or Your Business | CNSNews.com

Women need birth control for medical reasons too, not just social reasons. She should be allowed to get that BC under her health care plan paid for by her employer. If the employer refuses to give her birth control to aid with her periods, then perhaps they shouldn't be in business.

Do they pay health care coverage for men who need viagra? I bet they do. But when it comes to women, its different.

If their current female employees are okay with not having contraception covered by their plan, then that is fine - but if they request it, the owners should have no right to deny it.

I suspect if you assholes keep this shit up there will be a lot less women hired in the future.

 

[OODA_Loop]

I worked with a gal once who was fired after she brought her partner to the company holiday party.

I think you are lying.

Wow, that's a brilliant comeback.

besides the fact I've told this story before, what part of it sounds so unbelievable to you?

You always have an exact example of topics you find egregious manifested directly in your personal life.

We call people like that around here "full of shit"

 

[California Girl]

Yes. In 29 states you can.

Pass Employment Non-Discrimination Act (ENDA)

For the record, I find it highly offensive that anyone should be fired for their religion, color, or sexual orientation... but I would prefer to know who those companies are. So that I can avoid doing business with them. That's why I support their right to choose. If they can choose, so can I.

You won't do business in 29 states?

Why would I punish a whole state? I would not do business with any company that discriminates against anyone. Sadly, people like you make it impossible for me to know who those companies are. Allow them to discriminate... see how long they stay in business. That is freedom. They should be allowed to discriminate, and we should be allowed to take our business elsewhere. What are you so afraid of?

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Women need birth control for medical reasons too, not just social reasons. She should be allowed to get that BC under her health care plan paid for by her employer. If the employer refuses to give her birth control to aid with her periods, then perhaps they shouldn't be in business.

Or perhaps the woman shouldn't work for them. See how simple that is? There is no Constitutional right to birth control.

Do they pay health care coverage for men who need viagra? I bet they do. But when it comes to women, its different.

Because it is different, as anyone with even the most minimal amount of intelligence can understand.

If their current female employees are okay with not having contraception covered by their plan, then that is fine - but if they request it, the owners should have no right to deny it.

There is no Constitutional right to employment.

 

[JoeB131]

So a business is allowed to practice religious doctrines in spite of laws in the USA?

They can fire someone for taking the pill or having an affair or not going to church?

It is a for profit corporation not a church.

For that matter, can you fire an employee for being gay?

Yes. In 29 states you can.

Pass Employment Non-Discrimination Act (ENDA)

And to build on that, even in a state that has such a law, it is further complicated by "At Will Employment". For instance, IL has a law that prevents that sort of thing, but my aforementioned friend still got fired after her partner came to the holiday party.

Their "official" reason was that they determined that department really didn't need three people in it. They could have moved her back to the department they promoted her from, but didn't. But it would have been incumbant upon her to prove that her co-workers made homophobic statements after she "came out" at the party.

Instead, I wrote a resume for her, (back in the old days when I still did that sort of thing for free) and she got a job a week later that paid better. A month later, so did I.

 

[California Girl]

Offering insurance isn't against anyone's religion. Making employees accept your personal precepts shouldn't be protected under the 1st amendment. It'd be no different than enforcing shariah law.

Actually, it is against the doctines of several religions. But you're not one to let 'facts' get in the way of bullshit.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

It's astonishing to me how so called "liberals" constantly side with the government to step on people's individual freedoms in order to satisfy their own greed.

 

[JoeB131]

Offering insurance isn't against anyone's religion. Making employees accept your personal precepts shouldn't be protected under the 1st amendment. It'd be no different than enforcing shariah law.

Actually, it is against the doctines of several religions. But you're not one to let 'facts' get in the way of bullshit.

Why does that make a difference?

No one should be involved in that disussion but the patient and the doctor. If you are offering health coverage in leiu of compensation, that should be the end of the matter.

 

[konradv]

A Christian theocracy? How would that work genus? These people are Christians and have a moral objection to abortion and birth control their church teaches them that. The federal government has no right to force them to fund it, Obama signs an executive order "no funding for abortion in the health care law, so they push this down the throat of employers Obama is a dishonest piece of shit. Let women pay for their own friken abortion pills

You do know there's a difference between birth control pills and abortion, right?

Christians and have a moral objection to abortion and birth control their church teaches them that.

They're not being asked to practice birth control or abortion, just provide access to insurance coverage. That position makes as much sense as allowing Muslim cab drivers to refuse to pick up fares that have been drinking.

 

[JoeB131]

It's astonishing to me how so called "liberals" constantly side with the government to step on people's individual freedoms in order to satisfy their own greed.

It's astonishing to me that "conservatives" side with big corporations against their own interests because they can push a few religious buttons and make them act stupid.

If you are against birth control, don't practice it. But don't go around telling other people they can't.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Offering insurance isn't against anyone's religion.

Which you surely know better than they, not being a member of their religion or anything.

Making employees accept your personal precepts shouldn't be protected under the 1st amendment.

Then don't work for them.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

It's astonishing to me how so called "liberals" constantly side with the government to step on people's individual freedoms in order to satisfy their own greed.

It's astonishing to me that "conservatives" side with big corporations against their own interests because they can push a few religious buttons and make them act stupid.

Actually, no, it's the so called "liberals" who are siding with the corporations on this one. ObamaCare was a huge windfall for insurance companies, which the Marxists have always despised, but that's ok because it was a Democrat's idea.

If you are against birth control, don't practice it. But don't go around telling other people they can't.

Nobody has told anyone that they can't use birth control, Joe. Any other lies you'd like to tell in your feeble attempt to bolster your failed argument?

 

[JoeB131]

Offering insurance isn't against anyone's religion.

Which you surely know better than they, not being a member of their religion or anything.

Making employees accept your personal precepts shouldn't be protected under the 1st amendment.

Then don't work for them.

If that is put out there upfront, you might have a point.

For instance, I was once offered a job by a company that was run by a devout Jewish guy who closed down on Fridays for the Sabbath. (His religious devotion obviously did not extend to making sure everyone working for him was legally here. "If there papers look good enough, that's good enough for me.")

I felt this was a high enough level of religous stupidity and hypocrisy where I didn't take the job.

I think it would be different if you work for a company, your COBRA has just run out, and then you get your first day of new insurance, and find out, "Oh, we don't cover your wife's progestrone for Ovarian Cysts because of religious objections by your employer".

 

[JoeB131]

It's astonishing to me how so called "liberals" constantly side with the government to step on people's individual freedoms in order to satisfy their own greed.

It's astonishing to me that "conservatives" side with big corporations against their own interests because they can push a few religious buttons and make them act stupid.

Actually, no, it's the so called "liberals" who are siding with the corporations on this one. ObamaCare was a huge windfall for insurance companies, which the Marxists have always despised, but that's ok because it was a Democrat's idea.

Actually, it was technically the idea of the Heritage Foundation and Mitt Romney. "Conservatives" only started being against it when Obama adopted it.

On this particular issue, there is no issue for the insurance companies, because birth control is cheaper than paying for maternity costs.

[

If you are against birth control, don't practice it. But don't go around telling other people they can't.

Nobody has told anyone that they can't use birth control, Joe. Any other lies you'd like to tell in your feeble attempt to bolster your failed argument?

No, they are just being told that insurance won't cover it, which is kind of the same thing.

If someone was such a fanatic about birth control that they won't pay for it, somehow, I don't think they'd look upon me kindly as an employee if they knew I was practicing it out of my own pocket.

This is why I think these people need to be slapped down- hard. Keep your religous stupidity to yourself.