DOJ to Colorado Family: Give Up Your Religion or Your Business

[Noomi]

The Justice Department last week presented the Newland family of Colorado--who own Hercules Industries, a heating, ventilation and air-conditioning business--with what amounted to an ultimatum: Give up your religion or your business.

“Hercules Industries has ‘made no showing of a religious belief which requires that [it] engage in the [HVAC] business,” the Justice Department said in a formal filing in the U.S. District Court for the District of Colorado.

In response to the Justice Department’s argument that the Newlands can either give up practicing their religion or give up owning their business, the Alliance Defending Freedom, which is representing the family, said in a reply brief: "[T]o the extent the government is arguing that its mandate does not really burden the Newlands because they are free to abandon their jobs, their livelihoods, and their property so that others can take over Hercules and comply, this expulsion from business would be an extreme form of government burden.”

DOJ to Colorado Family: Give Up Your Religion or Your Business | CNSNews.com

Women need birth control for medical reasons too, not just social reasons. She should be allowed to get that BC under her health care plan paid for by her employer. If the employer refuses to give her birth control to aid with her periods, then perhaps they shouldn't be in business.

Do they pay health care coverage for men who need viagra? I bet they do. But when it comes to women, its different.

If their current female employees are okay with not having contraception covered by their plan, then that is fine - but if they request it, the owners should have no right to deny it.

 

[auditor0007]

The Justice Department last week presented the Newland family of Colorado--who own Hercules Industries, a heating, ventilation and air-conditioning business--with what amounted to an ultimatum: Give up your religion or your business.

“Hercules Industries has ‘made no showing of a religious belief which requires that [it] engage in the [HVAC] business,” the Justice Department said in a formal filing in the U.S. District Court for the District of Colorado.

In response to the Justice Department’s argument that the Newlands can either give up practicing their religion or give up owning their business, the Alliance Defending Freedom, which is representing the family, said in a reply brief: "[T]o the extent the government is arguing that its mandate does not really burden the Newlands because they are free to abandon their jobs, their livelihoods, and their property so that others can take over Hercules and comply, this expulsion from business would be an extreme form of government burden.”

DOJ to Colorado Family: Give Up Your Religion or Your Business | CNSNews.com

I can see both sides of this issue. On one hand why should they be forced into paying for medical care they do not support. On the other hand, why should their religious beliefs be forced upon their employees. I understand that if one of their employees wants birth control or an abortion, they can pay for it on their own, but is it right that they should not receive this coverage in their plan because their employer doesn't believe in it, yet if they worked at any other company they would have this coverage? In the end they are trying to hold their employees to their own personal moral compass based on their beliefs.

One interesting thing about the Catholic Church's policy on contraception or lack of it; if everyone on this planet of child bearing age followed the church's teachings and still only had six kids per couple, and this formula remained steady for generation after generation, do you have any idea what the world population would be within 150 years, or five generations? The answer is 365 billion people or somewhere around there. Of course, we all know this planet cannot support 365 billion people. Hell, it can't support much more than we have now. So when is the Catholic Church going to wake up and understand that we fulfilled God's word and were fruitful and multiplied, but now it's fucking time to stop?

 

[Noomi]

The Justice Department last week presented the Newland family of Colorado--who own Hercules Industries, a heating, ventilation and air-conditioning business--with what amounted to an ultimatum: Give up your religion or your business.

“Hercules Industries has ‘made no showing of a religious belief which requires that [it] engage in the [HVAC] business,” the Justice Department said in a formal filing in the U.S. District Court for the District of Colorado.

In response to the Justice Department’s argument that the Newlands can either give up practicing their religion or give up owning their business, the Alliance Defending Freedom, which is representing the family, said in a reply brief: "[T]o the extent the government is arguing that its mandate does not really burden the Newlands because they are free to abandon their jobs, their livelihoods, and their property so that others can take over Hercules and comply, this expulsion from business would be an extreme form of government burden.”

DOJ to Colorado Family: Give Up Your Religion or Your Business | CNSNews.com

I can see both sides of this issue. On one hand why should they be forced into paying for medical care they do not support. On the other hand, why should their religious beliefs be forced upon their employees. I understand that if one of their employees wants birth control or an abortion, they can pay for it on their own, but is it right that they should not receive this coverage in their plan because their employer doesn't believe in it, yet if they worked at any other company they would have this coverage? In the end they are trying to hold their employees to their own personal moral compass based on their beliefs.

One interesting thing about the Catholic Church's policy on contraception or lack of it; if everyone on this planet of child bearing age followed the church's teachings and still only had six kids per couple, and this formula remained steady for generation after generation, do you have any idea what the world population would be within 150 years, or five generations? The answer is 365 billion people or somewhere around there. Of course, we all know this planet cannot support 365 billion people. Hell, it can't support much more than we have now. So when is the Catholic Church going to wake up and understand that we fulfilled God's word and were fruitful and multiplied, but now it's fucking time to stop?

Excellent post.

 

[JoeB131]

Some do, some don't.

This one they will, because the obligations of employers to provide insurance would be rendered moot if anyone could claim it was against their religion to provide coverage.

Damn, you just destroyed your own position.

There is a religious conscious exemption written into the PPACA.


Damn, look at that, there are actually religious exceptions to tax laws. These same exceptions apply to to Obamacare. If the universe were as simple minded as you are Obamacare was just rendered moot. Fortunately for the universe, it is smarter than you are.

Since you don't seem to be able to read English, the religious exception is VERY specific to houses of worship. It doesn't apply to businesses who say, "Hey, my interpretation of the bible is that I can be an asshole!"

 

[JoeB131]

Point 1. The bible says absolutely nothing about Birth control. So their point that it is a great part of their religion is incorrect. their own instruction book does not say a thing about it.

.

The verse Funditards cite as to why they think that Birth Control is against God's will is 38:8-10.

To recap this story. Er the son of Judah was offensive to Yahweh. Doesn't say how he was offensive to Yahweh, but he was, so God killed him. Then Judah directed his brother Onan to marry Tamar, Er's widow. Well, old Onan didn't want to father kids on his dead brother's wife, but he had no problem having sex with her. He just pulled out just before the climax. Well, this offended God, too. And God like totally smited that fool.

ANYWHO- the part of the same story the Funditards don't want to talk about. Tamar thought that she should be married to Judah's third son, but Judah wasn't having any of that. This chick is like cursed. So Tamar disguised herself as a hooker, and in a fashion Jerry Springer would be proud of, seduced her father in law. She asked for his seal and rod as payment.

Well, low and behold, she finally did get knocked up - with twins- and Judah wanted to totally burn her alive for it, not realizing he was the father. So much for the "sanctity of the unborn" crap they try to claim when opposing abortion. She had a child outside marriage, she was totally getting burned.

Only when she pointed out the kid was his, did he relent.

Now, this is actually kind of biblically important, because one of these two kids was Pharez, who became an ancestor of David and eventually Jesus.

 

[editec]

Oh this is a huge TOUGH NUGGIES" to Herciles kiddies.

They have moral objections to this law?

I have moral objections to plenty of things that I am forced to do by SECULAR law, too, and I'll bet EVERY ONE reading this does as well.

But our religious objections do NOT trump this nation's secular laws so this is just too damned bad for us.

 

[uscitizen]

So a business is allowed to practice religious doctrines in spite of laws in the USA?

They can fire someone for taking the pill or having an affair or not going to church?

It is a for profit corporation not a church.

 

[JoeB131]

So a business is allowed to practice religious doctrines in spite of laws in the USA?

They can fire someone for taking the pill or having an affair or not going to church?

It is a for profit corporation not a church.

For that matter, can you fire an employee for being gay?

 

[uscitizen]

So a business is allowed to practice religious doctrines in spite of laws in the USA?

They can fire someone for taking the pill or having an affair or not going to church?

It is a for profit corporation not a church.

For that matter, can you fire an employee for being gay?

Yes how far is religion doctrine allowed to go in a corporation?

fire them for being atheist? Muslim?

And how would some react if a muslim owned business started impressing their religious doctrines in their corporation?

Where does it end?

 

[Seawytch]

So when is the Catholic Church going to wake up and understand that we fulfilled God's word and were fruitful and multiplied, but now it's fucking time to stop?

About the same time they figure out how incredibly harmful their celibacy rule is.

 

[OODA_Loop]

For that matter, can you fire an employee for being gay?

You only know he/she is gay by declaration.

Sexuality and sex discussions are not appropriate for the workplace and can = termination.

I work with and for gay men. Gay doesn't ever come up.

 

[Seawytch]

So a business is allowed to practice religious doctrines in spite of laws in the USA?

They can fire someone for taking the pill or having an affair or not going to church?

It is a for profit corporation not a church.

For that matter, can you fire an employee for being gay?

Yes. In 29 states you can.

http://sites.hrc.org/sites/passendanow/index.asp

 

[Seawytch]

For that matter, can you fire an employee for being gay?

You only know he/she is gay by declaration.

Sexuality and sex discussions are not appropriate for the workplace and can = termination.

I work with and for gay men. Gay doesn't ever come up.

Oh... So YOU can have a picture of your family on your desk but the can't? Lovely...

 

[California Girl]

The Justice Department last week presented the Newland family of Colorado--who own Hercules Industries, a heating, ventilation and air-conditioning business--with what amounted to an ultimatum: Give up your religion or your business.

“Hercules Industries has ‘made no showing of a religious belief which requires that [it] engage in the [HVAC] business,” the Justice Department said in a formal filing in the U.S. District Court for the District of Colorado.

In response to the Justice Department’s argument that the Newlands can either give up practicing their religion or give up owning their business, the Alliance Defending Freedom, which is representing the family, said in a reply brief: "[T]o the extent the government is arguing that its mandate does not really burden the Newlands because they are free to abandon their jobs, their livelihoods, and their property so that others can take over Hercules and comply, this expulsion from business would be an extreme form of government burden.”

DOJ to Colorado Family: Give Up Your Religion or Your Business | CNSNews.com

great misrepresentation of what the filing says.
'
reality: a secular for-profit business has no religious exemption from complying with law.

why do you hate this country?

i think you should go live in a theocracy.

Why do you hate Catholics? We helped found this country. We have as much right to live here as you do.

 

[OODA_Loop]

For that matter, can you fire an employee for being gay?

You only know he/she is gay by declaration.

Sexuality and sex discussions are not appropriate for the workplace and can = termination.

I work with and for gay men. Gay doesn't ever come up.

Oh... So YOU can have a picture of your family on your desk but the can't? Lovely...

They have pictures on their desk ?

 

[California Girl]

So when is the Catholic Church going to wake up and understand that we fulfilled God's word and were fruitful and multiplied, but now it's fucking time to stop?

About the same time they figure out how incredibly harmful their celibacy rule is.

Do we force our rules on you? No. How about you stop enforcing yours on us? You don't have to be Catholic. We don't have to fund your birth control and abortions.

 

[California Girl]

So a business is allowed to practice religious doctrines in spite of laws in the USA?

They can fire someone for taking the pill or having an affair or not going to church?

It is a for profit corporation not a church.

For that matter, can you fire an employee for being gay?

Yes. In 29 states you can.

Pass Employment Non-Discrimination Act (ENDA)

For the record, I find it highly offensive that anyone should be fired for their religion, color, or sexual orientation... but I would prefer to know who those companies are. So that I can avoid doing business with them. That's why I support their right to choose. If they can choose, so can I.

 

[Jroc]

The Justice Department last week presented the Newland family of Colorado--who own Hercules Industries, a heating, ventilation and air-conditioning business--with what amounted to an ultimatum: Give up your religion or your business.

“Hercules Industries has ‘made no showing of a religious belief which requires that [it] engage in the [HVAC] business,” the Justice Department said in a formal filing in the U.S. District Court for the District of Colorado.

In response to the Justice Department’s argument that the Newlands can either give up practicing their religion or give up owning their business, the Alliance Defending Freedom, which is representing the family, said in a reply brief: "[T]o the extent the government is arguing that its mandate does not really burden the Newlands because they are free to abandon their jobs, their livelihoods, and their property so that others can take over Hercules and comply, this expulsion from business would be an extreme form of government burden.”

DOJ to Colorado Family: Give Up Your Religion or Your Business | CNSNews.com

great misrepresentation of what the filing says.
'
reality: a secular for-profit business has no religious exemption from complying with law.

why do you hate this country?

i think you should go live in a theocracy.

A Christian theocracy? How would that work genus? These people are Christians and have a moral objection to abortion and birth control their church teaches them that. The federal government has no right to force them to fund it, Obama signs an executive order "no funding for abortion in the health care law, so they push this down the throat of employers Obama is a dishonest piece of shit. Let women pay for their own friken abortion pills

 

[JoeB131]

For that matter, can you fire an employee for being gay?

You only know he/she is gay by declaration.

Sexuality and sex discussions are not appropriate for the workplace and can = termination.

I work with and for gay men. Gay doesn't ever come up.

No, it doesn't.

Yeah, I think that if people are graphically describing sex in the workplace, they should be fired regardless of their orientation.

But why should they hide the parts of their lives that don't involve sex? You know, you guys must think gay folks are doing nothing all day but having sex, apparently.

I worked with a gal once who was fired after she brought her partner to the company holiday party. They weren't having sex on the table or talking dirty or anything. the most provocative thing they did was dance together. Two weeks later, she was fired, obstensively as part of an employee reduction, but they replaced that position about a month later.

My last boss was a lesbian. Never talked about her partner or her lifestyle when everyone else was talking about their boyfriends or husbands.

 

[Seawytch]

For that matter, can you fire an employee for being gay?

Yes. In 29 states you can.

Pass Employment Non-Discrimination Act (ENDA)

For the record, I find it highly offensive that anyone should be fired for their religion, color, or sexual orientation... but I would prefer to know who those companies are. So that I can avoid doing business with them. That's why I support their right to choose. If they can choose, so can I.

You won't do business in 29 states?