Doing Nothing Seems To Be A Winner

[P F Tinmore]

$2.3 trillion missing from the Pentagon and these fakes are talking about pushing granny off the clif.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Cancel NAFTA.

 

[Steelplate]

Large fonts aside... I know. We do need to get back there. But I'm not talking about taxes at the moment. I'm talking about bigger items. Like the stranglehold big business has on growth in this country.

Let me give you an example. Joe Schmoe's widget factory competes with ACME Inc's subdivision of a subdivision's widget plant. ACME doesn't like competition and wants to control the market on everything they produce. Since their widget plant is just a small part of their big Corporation, they can undercut Joe Schmoe easily... even selling their widgets at a loss until Joe gives up. How can they do this? Power. They have the power to do this because they are profiting enough elsewhere to cover the difference.

Ok... now, let's suppose Joe Schmoe is an excellent businessman and lays off a few people, demands more production out of the people he does have and still makes it. Well, then ACME can move his widget plant to China, get the slave labor to make his widgets for $1/hour. Generally, there's nothing that Joe can do to compete... but just for the sake of argument... let's say Joe hangs on by the skin of his teeth for a short period of time.... Now ACME has him right where they want him. They approach Joe and says... hey... we'll buy your business for $10M(arbitrary sum). Let's see, Joe's pretty much set for life, he agrees, and ACME closes down the plant and all those widgets are now made in China for $1/hour and have the ACME label on it.

That's what is going on... little by little, piece by piece... we are becoming the Corporate States of America.....made in China.

 

[editec]

That we need to get the arterial bleeding of the national debt into line with reality is unquestionably true.

The question is how do we do that?

 

[Mr. Shaman]

The point is they aren't talking about killing social programs like Medicare.

Guess you fell for the bullshit.

no... they aren't talking about killing it... just privatizing it and handing out vouchers that force our elderly to pay on average $6k more/year on fixed incomes... yeah, they're all heart.

That's the left's version of it.

Guess you fell for the Bullshit too.

....And, those WMDs are WHERE??!!!!

​

 

[dblack]

Let me give you an example. Joe Schmoe's widget factory competes with ACME Inc's subdivision of a subdivision's widget plant. ACME doesn't like competition and wants to control the market on everything they produce. ...

And lets not forget ACME's army of lobbyists, working to ensure that any and all regulations regarding their industry hurt their competition more. If we want to get serious about corporate domination in this country we need to acknowledge that in most cases the vested interests in an industry write their own regulation (look at the ACA if you have any doubt). Government needs to follow the edict, "first, do no harm", and eliminate the wide body of policy that favors the status quo.

That's what is going on... little by little, piece by piece... we are becoming the Corporate States of America.....made in China.

I couldn't agree more. Every time I hear a politician talk about another corporate/government "partnership" I cringe.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

The point is they aren't talking about killing social programs like Medicare.

Guess you fell for the bullshit.

....And, WHERE are those WMDs you White Wingers promised (everyone) WOULD be found?????

​

Case in point.

What year do you think this is dip-shit????

That WAS my concern....that you White Wingers have (obviously) FORGOTTEN-ABOUT those grand ol' national-security issues with which you used to beat everyone (else) over-the-head!!

What.....you're (finally) starting to think there WERE no WMDs.....and, that it was BULLSHIT you chose to believe????



(Great body-count, there....BTW.)​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

exposing partisans, or partisanship, is niether left or right Whistle

in your defense, it's an ongoing blame game fascade foisted upon us by shill governance that has no inyterest in serving the middle class

Yes, blaming the whistle-blowers.

An age old tactic.

Gee, Mudd-Butt.....that almost made sense.

I guess your live-ammo is all gone, huh?

 

[Goodoledays]

That we need to get the arterial bleeding of the national debt into line with reality is unquestionably true.

The question is how do we do that?

How do we do that. To start with the gov't can stop be so nice with their handouts with foreign nations that don't even like us. They can start by getting the U.S. back on tract first then worry about helping ones that don't even care about the U.S.

With a majority of his speeches he makes it sound like he is there to staighten things out when all he really is doing is campaigning for his next run. If he thought he was so good this would not be necessary. And he knows it.

One thing the gov't could start with is balancing the budget. When done if they are smart enough they would know they have to cut up their credit card like many people do.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Let the dems do nothing.....

Don't beg. It's bad-form.

 

[mudwhistle]

Kill the Middle Class, pander to the wealthy.....the conservative mantra. Make the people barely scraping by pay for everything and the people hoarding most of the money pay for nil. Yes, you can go on about how they pay X% of the income tax, but their incomes have increased exponentially while the working/Middle class' have stagnated.

Here's an Idea... since there's so many more of us middle/working class people... pander to us. Boost our incomes, invest in us....

It's been done.....​

August 5, 1996​

"The vast majority of taxpayers saw no change in their income taxes as a result of the 1993 law. CBO estimates that most households paid only $38 more per year, as a result of the 4.3 cent per gallon increase in the gas tax."

Taxes: The Highest in History?​

....and, it WORKED!!!!!!!!

*

It's time to GET BACK.....

.....THERE!!!!​

Since 50% don't pay any income taxes anyway what does that prove?

Other taxes they did pay were hidden taxes on gas taxes and sin-taxes.

Those went up, but we can't worry about that. Although because of rising costs famiies can't get by on one income.

 

[mudwhistle]

I see a lack of leadership on both sides.

One party fakes doing anything and the other comes under attack every time they try to do something. It's as simple as that.

 

[Steelplate]

And lets not forget ACME's army of lobbyists, working to ensure that any and all regulations regarding their industry hurt their competition more. If we want to get serious about corporate domination in this country we need to acknowledge that in most cases the vested interests in an industry write their own regulation (look at the ACA if you have any doubt). Government needs to follow the edict, "first, do no harm", and eliminate the wide body of policy that favors the status quo.



I couldn't agree more. Every time I hear a politician talk about another corporate/government "partnership" I cringe.

The problem with the lobbyist and whatnot is that our people in government rely on the lobbying dollar and campaign donations to run their election/re-election campaigns. They are indebted to the status quo before they ever reach office.

Now before the Conservatives jump on me... yes, I know... Unions do it too.. there, ya happy?

I say.. let's eliminate it all, go to publicly funded elections. What it will cost us to finance their elections will pale in comparison to all the backroom deals and gerrymandering that goes on. Plus, we can demand that a cap be put in place so that the costs are known and transparent to "we the people". Each Candidate gets an equal amount from the "election pool.. and that's it.

Perhaps then we won't be bombarded with ridiculous lies from both sides on television for a year(because they actually have to budget themselves), perhaps debates would become more commonplace and the actual issues will be discussed instead of propaganda.

After the elections are over, paid lobbyists are banned. Only Citizens get to petition their government. Corporations and other high profile entities will be treated exactly the same as you or I.

Finally, we need to enforce all of this to the letter. If a candidate or elected official gets caught cheating, they are thrown out on their ass and a special election would be held for the vacant position.

 

[Greenbeard]

This isn't the way it's supposed to work. When an irresponsible party gets caught doing this he's supposed to be the one who pays the price, but instead those who have been acting responsibly are the ones paying for this.

Real Medicare reform began a year ago with the passage of actual legislation, not the napkin sketch the Republicans have been relying on. I say "real" reform because it was actually aimed at improving Medicare: altering the cost-sharing structure, payment reform, putting in place mechanisms to improve the delivery of care etc. As I recall, the "responsible" party got a lot of mileage in the last election by attacking those very reforms. Now that they're taking the infinitely more toxic position of trying to blow Medicare up instead of fixing it, they've become surprisingly pathetic--demanding truces, whining on television, even posting tearful threads like this.

Instead of trying to build on the actual Medicare reforms passed last year, the Republicans have adopted the position that we should stop paying for the medical care seniors receive, dismantling Medicare and instead giving seniors a coupon for an Aetna plan. If the best defense of this travesty you can offer is "this isn't the way it's supposed to work," perhaps you should take your ball and head on home.

Nothing offered is gonna kill Medicare unless we do nothing, but there's too much misinformation, too many lies out there so that nobody knows what's going on.

This isn't a particularly difficult concept. Medicare is a payer that offers seniors a defined health benefit--it pays the medical bills of the nation's elderly.

Under the Republican proposal, it no longer does that. The Republicans have made the astonishing discovery that it's cheaper for the federal government if it stops paying for the physician and hospital visits of that nation's elderly citizens. Who knew?

Add to that a party that was bent on spending us into this state of debt and it seems like this is all gonna collapse.

Why is it that the Republican proposal takes 30 years to cut the deficit to zero? I mean, since our deficit problem isn't structural but rather due entirely to Barack Obama's profligacy, why does it take them three decades to stop his spending? It can't be the lingering effects of Obama's signature legislature, since the big pieces of legislation that came out of the last Congress, like the Affordable Care Act and Dodd-Frank, are repealed immediately under the Republican plan.

It can't be the Democrats' lingering discretionary spending as this is the Republicans' budget proposal. They slash Medicaid immediately, and Medicare stops paying seniors' medical bills in 2022 (aside from those graciously grandfathered in). So why do we have an annual budget deficit for the next 30 years under their proposal? How on earth can Democratic discretionary spending dominate the budget for the next three decades, even in the Republicans' pie-in-the-sky, fantasy picture of what the budget ought to look like?

 

[Steelplate]

I see a lack of leadership on both sides.

One party fakes doing anything and the other comes under attack every time they try to do something. It's as simple as that.

Still waiting on the Medicare thing....

 

[dblack]

The problem with the lobbyist and whatnot is that our people in government rely on the lobbying dollar and campaign donations to run their election/re-election campaigns. They are indebted to the status quo before they ever reach office.

Now before the Conservatives jump on me... yes, I know... Unions do it too.. there, ya happy?

I say.. let's eliminate it all, go to publicly funded elections. What it will cost us to finance their elections will pale in comparison to all the backroom deals and gerrymandering that goes on. Plus, we can demand that a cap be put in place so that the costs are known and transparent to "we the people". Each Candidate gets an equal amount from the "election pool.. and that's it.

I'm sympathetic to the intent of this, but I just don't see how it would work. It would further centralize control over who is allowed to run for office and, I suspect, would make it even easier for the vested interests to shut out any real threat of change.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Because the left lies so much, it appears nobody is trustworthy.

It's amazing that we have this fake government headed by an empty-suit that doesn't know what fucken year it is.

It's all a fantasy.

How the heck can you accomplish anything when your government can't afford to be realistic??

That's just a rumor, Mudd-Butt. No matter how much your boys try to whack the IRS-budget, your high-roller/1%er-buds are....

....still ON-THE-RUN!!!!

Yeah.....you can TELL......

.....BUSHCO has "LEFT THE BUILDING"!!!

 

[mudwhistle]

This isn't the way it's supposed to work. When an irresponsible party gets caught doing this he's supposed to be the one who pays the price, but instead those who have been acting responsibly are the ones paying for this.

Real Medicare reform began a year ago with the passage of actual legislation, not the napkin sketch the Republicans have been relying on. I say "real" reform because it was actually aimed at improving Medicare: altering the cost-sharing structure, payment reform, putting in place mechanisms to improve the delivery of care etc. As I recall, the "responsible" party got a lot of mileage in the last election by attacking those very reforms. Now that they're taking the infinitely more toxic position of trying to blow Medicare up instead of fixing it, they've become surprisingly pathetic--demanding truces, whining on television, even posting tearful threads like this.

Instead of trying to build on the actual Medicare reforms passed last year, the Republicans have adopted the position that we should stop paying for the medical care seniors receive, dismantling Medicare and instead giving seniors a coupon for an Aetna plan. If the best defense of this travesty you can offer is "this isn't the way it's supposed to work," perhaps you should take your ball and head on home.

Nothing offered is gonna kill Medicare unless we do nothing, but there's too much misinformation, too many lies out there so that nobody knows what's going on.

This isn't a particularly difficult concept. Medicare is a payer that offers seniors a defined health benefit--it pays the medical bills of the nation's elderly.

Under the Republican proposal, it no longer does that. The Republicans have made the astonishing discovery that it's cheaper for the federal government if it stops paying for the physician and hospital visits of that nation's elderly citizens. Who knew?

Add to that a party that was bent on spending us into this state of debt and it seems like this is all gonna collapse.

Why is it that the Republican proposal takes 30 years to cut the deficit to zero? I mean, since our deficit problem isn't structural but rather due entirely to Barack Obama's profligacy, why does it take them three decades to stop his spending? It can't be the lingering effects of Obama's signature legislature, since the big pieces of legislation that came out of the last Congress, like the Affordable Care Act and Dodd-Frank, are repealed immediately under the Republican plan.

It can't be the Democrats' lingering discretionary spending as this is the Republicans' budget proposal. They slash Medicaid immediately, and Medicare stops paying seniors' medical bills in 2022 (aside from those graciously grandfathered in). So why do we have an annual budget deficit for the next 30 years under their proposal? How on earth can Democratic discretionary spending dominate the budget for the next three decades, even in the Republicans' pie-in-the-sky, fantasy picture of what the budget ought to look like?

So Obama's solution was to slash Medicare and start another more expensive health care program that is even less efficient.

Good idea.

Neither has offered a viable solution. The real solution I keep hearing is to offer more options while Dems only want to give us one.

Not everyone's needs are the same.

 

[P F Tinmore]

And lets not forget ACME's army of lobbyists, working to ensure that any and all regulations regarding their industry hurt their competition more. If we want to get serious about corporate domination in this country we need to acknowledge that in most cases the vested interests in an industry write their own regulation (look at the ACA if you have any doubt). Government needs to follow the edict, "first, do no harm", and eliminate the wide body of policy that favors the status quo.



I couldn't agree more. Every time I hear a politician talk about another corporate/government "partnership" I cringe.

The problem with the lobbyist and whatnot is that our people in government rely on the lobbying dollar and campaign donations to run their election/re-election campaigns. They are indebted to the status quo before they ever reach office.

Now before the Conservatives jump on me... yes, I know... Unions do it too.. there, ya happy?

I say.. let's eliminate it all, go to publicly funded elections. What it will cost us to finance their elections will pale in comparison to all the backroom deals and gerrymandering that goes on. Plus, we can demand that a cap be put in place so that the costs are known and transparent to "we the people". Each Candidate gets an equal amount from the "election pool.. and that's it.

Perhaps then we won't be bombarded with ridiculous lies from both sides on television for a year(because they actually have to budget themselves), perhaps debates would become more commonplace and the actual issues will be discussed instead of propaganda.

After the elections are over, paid lobbyists are banned. Only Citizens get to petition their government. Corporations and other high profile entities will be treated exactly the same as you or I.

Finally, we need to enforce all of this to the letter. If a candidate or elected official gets caught cheating, they are thrown out on their ass and a special election would be held for the vacant position.

If corporations are "persons" why are they not limited to donations like any other person?

 

[P F Tinmore]

That we need to get the arterial bleeding of the national debt into line with reality is unquestionably true.

The question is how do we do that?

End the Fed
Close all foreign military bases and bring all troops home
Cancel Nafta
Stop all foreign aid

For starters.