D'oh It's All About the Israelis

[Annie]

Hardly:

It's always been by and for the Palis. Israel has tried to give the concessions, hoping for peace. Mind you, the concessions are on lands gained AFTER they were attacked and triumphed.

http://austinbay.net/blog/?p=420

Links at site

7/16/2005
Palestinian Civil War Boils Over
Filed under:

* General

— site admin @ 2:10 pm

The Palestinian civil war is definitely on. Well, it’s been an on and off struggle for several years, but Arafat’s death raised the stakes and set the stage for an all-out internecine battle.

Hamas puts double pressure on Mahmoud Abbas by attacking Israel.

IsraelNationalNews.com certainly thinks sos:

Islamic Jihad terror leaders Friday afternoon tried to negotiate between Hamas terrorists and the PA, and called on all groups “to aim for Israel and the PA.”

Israeli intelligence officers have increasingly observed that Hamas has set up itself as a rival authority to the Palestinian Authority in Gaza. Several shooting incidents during the past few months indicated severe trouble for the PA’s attempts to govern there.

A civil war began to brew Thursday night after Hamas and Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigade terrorists launched a massive mortar and rocket attack on Israeli communities when PA Chairman Abu Mazen (Mahmoud Abbas) visited the area.

An ensuing shootout between PA police forces and Hamas caused the death of two unarmed teenagers and left 16 injured, some of the seriously, according to the Al-Jazeera Arab news site. Several of the wounded were policemen. Hamas retaliated in Shechem, storming a PA police station and freeing one of its jailed terrorists.

Battles continued in Gaza Friday morning, with PA security forces using armored vehicles to travel in Hamas neighborhoods and Hamas terrorists firing anti-tank missiles. Leaders of the Islamic Jihad terrorist group, which was responsible for the suicide bombings in Netanya this week and in Tel Aviv in February, tried to negotiate a cease fire early Friday afternoon.

I suggested last fall, in a column written after Arafat’s death (November 17, 2004):

His [Arafat’s]death could lead to civil war among secular PLO factions. That would only benefit the Islamists. If the PLO secularists manage to work out their differences, a violent showdown with the Islamist organizations is a certainty, the only question is when and how large…

…a democratic election only begins a difficult process. The civil war with the Islamists will be fought, perhaps in alleys and off-camera. One hopes a stronger Palestinian government will eventually emerge, capable of genuinely fighting internal corruption and finally rejecting terrorism.

Here’s one reason:

Arafat leaves the PLO itself in disarray. Arafat played PLO faction against faction, pitting “next generation” leaders against one another. No one in Palestine could ever appear to be the bigger man than Yasser. When Mahmoud Abbas became Palestinian prime minister, Arafat snubbed him and undermined him. The Arafat game remained l’etat c’est moi — one-man control.

Clayton Swisher, writing in The The LA Times wondersif the Palestinian Liberation Organization is passe’:

The green flag of Hamas flies everywhere in Gaza these days — from the city of Rafah on the Egyptian border to Gaza City to the crowded, destitute Jabaliya refugee camp. Signs of support for Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas and his Fatah movement are nowhere, save for some old, faded posters of Abbas and Yasser Arafat, left over from the last election campaign.

This is a big change from two years ago — and a worrisome one. With Israel preparing to withdraw its troops and settlers in August, it suggests that the Fatah-backed Palestinian Authority may no longer command the grass-roots support necessary to fill the power vacuum that seems certain to emerge.

It’s not just the flags and wall posters; signs of the Palestinian Authority’s weakness in Gaza abound. For one thing, Hamas overwhelmingly outperformed Fatah in local elections earlier this year. And Abbas’ popularity is dropping steadily in Palestinian public opinion polls.

Here’s an NY Times report on Irsrael’s responses to Hamas:

Vowing to take “all necessary steps against terror organizations,” Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and defense Minister Shaul Mofaz have ordered troops near Israel’s border with Gaza to prepare to enter the Gaza Strip if necessary - a gesture of brinksmanship and a warning to the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, to begin to move against militant groups.

It is unlikely that Israel would move troops in force into Gaza with Mr. Abbas there, with Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice coming next week, and with Israel’s pullout from its Gaza settlements only a month away. Mr. Mofaz also says Israel will give the Palestinian Authority time to control the violence.

But after Islamic Jihad carried out a suicide bombing on Tuesday in Netanya, killing five people, and Hamas fired a barrage of rockets and mortar shells into Israel on Thursday, killing one, Mr. Sharon and the army are taking the opportunity to move against Hamas, Israel’s main concern, in the West Bank. The army is enforcing a ban on travel into Israel from the territory.

Twenty-six of the people arrested on Saturday belonged to Hamas: 16 near Hebron, 5 near Nablus, 3 in Bethlehem and 2 in Tulkarm. Two members of Islamic Jihad were arrested in Bethlehem and two more in Tulkarm.

Unlike Islamic Jihad, Hamas, which has political ambitions, has largely kept to the cease-fire with Israel announced by Mr. Sharon and Mr. Abbas on Feb. 8. But in the past two days, after Mr. Abbas and his interior minister, Nasser Youssef, moved to stop militants from firing rockets and mortars at Israeli targets, Hamas has fought back against the Palestinian police in a series of gun battles and has burned a number of Palestinian government vehicles, including an armored personnel carrier.

Islamist militants have a war that pits them against Abbas and Israel. This will be a battle of alleys and assassinations.

 

[dilloduck]

Hardly:

It's always been by and for the Palis. Israel has tried to give the concessions, hoping for peace. Mind you, the concessions are on lands gained AFTER they were attacked and triumphed.

http://austinbay.net/blog/?p=420

Links at site

The Brits and the UN left quite a mess after giving land to jews and arabs and drawing up political borders. Now we have the Palistinians trying to keep Hammas reined in while Isreal is trying to hardliners reined in. Why the US gives any financial aid to either one is beyond me. Throwing money at this silliness is just plain dumb.

 

[Nuc]

The Brits and the UN left quite a mess after giving land to jews and arabs and drawing up political borders. Now we have the Palistinians trying to keep Hammas reined in while Isreal is trying to hardliners reined in. Why the US gives any financial aid to either one is beyond me. Throwing money at this silliness is just plain dumb.

Agreed. When two kids are fighting over a toy doesn't a smart parent take the toy away from both of them?

 

[Annie]

Agreed. When two kids are fighting over a toy doesn't a smart parent take the toy away from both of them?

Yeah, but. After WWII UN/Britain/US tried to give homeland to both Israelis and Palis. Israelis accepted. After several 'skirmishes' some Islamic states, led by Egypt attacked and lost against Israel. '67. They hit many times after. Even after 'proposals' towards peace had been made. (not normal for a victor, but the Israelis KNOW what it's like without real estate.) The response? "Not enough, nothing is enough without Israel ceasing to exist."

For some weird reason, Israel disagreed.

 

[dilloduck]

Yeah, but. After WWII UN/Britain/US tried to give homeland to both Israelis and Palis. Israelis accepted. After several 'skirmishes' some Islamic states, led by Egypt attacked and lost against Israel. '67. They hit many times after. Even after 'proposals' towards peace had been made. (not normal for a victor, but the Israelis KNOW what it's like without real estate.) The response? "Not enough, nothing is enough without Israel ceasing to exist."

For some weird reason, Israel disagreed.

One reason Israel continues to exist to this day is the incredible amount of money and favors that the US gave them compared to the small amouts given to the Arabs. Over the years, Israel has used this money to become incredibly powerful and developed nuclear weapons and remains powerful enough to obliterate its neighbors. It has launched rescue missions into Africa and destroyed nuclear facilities that threatened to develop the "Muslim" nuke. It's sales of arms to other regions of the world are a major source of it's income.
It is frightening to think of what arab countries would have done had they received the same amount of money and aid. This is ONE reason while many see the US as pro-Israel and anti-arab and has resulted in poor relations between the US and Arab nations.
While the US may have chosen to support the more peaceful and democratic in this disagreement, the resulting muslim anger towards the US has ballooned and we pay the price.

 

[freeandfun1]

One reason Israel continues to exist to this day is the incredible amount of money and favors that the US gave them compared to the small amouts given to the Arabs. Over the years, Israel has used this money to become incredibly powerful and developed nuclear weapons and remains powerful enough to obliterate its neighbors. It has launched rescue missions into Africa and destroyed nuclear facilities that threatened to develop the "Muslim" nuke. It's sales of arms to other regions of the world are a major source of it's income.
It is frightening to think of what arab countries would have done had they received the same amount of money and aid. This is ONE reason while many see the US as pro-Israel and anti-arab and has resulted in poor relations between the US and Arab nations.
While the US may have chosen to support the more peaceful and democratic in this disagreement, the resulting muslim anger towards the US has ballooned and we pay the price.

Dude, based on the Camp David Peace Accords, we give Israel and Egypt the same amount each year. $3 billion. Israel gets other aid for defence, but as Kat already pointed out, they need it because the Pali's didn't cooperate with the UN as the Israeli's did in 1949. Why is it that you think the Israeli's have no right to exist? Why is it that you don't look at the situation in an intellectually honest manner? Why do you ignore the fact that many of the Arab nations get even more than Israel in the form of payments for oil? More and more each day you do appear to be an anti-semite. Yeah, claim you aren't, but that's okay. You deliberate ignoring of facts paints the true picture.