Doesn't this war just breed more terrorism and ensure the lose of American Life?

[JIHADTHIS]

Originally posted by Kathianne
Gee, we've both noticed this phenonema.

It just drives me nuts sometimes. They're real quick to post all kinds of radical left wing dribble, yet they can't offer anything constructive. I'm pretty sure the next post will be that I am some evil neocon attacking them............

 

[Insertalias]

Call me an idealist but I think that if we spent as much money that we do blowing people up on providing relief for these countries, and by increasing our network of spies and intelligents we would be doing a more effective job. We could build schools with this money and do other things to change all the negative publlic opinion of our country. Fight the ignorant extremist with knowledge, provide libraries. Be altrustic world leaders and appear that way. We run campiagn ads in our country gloryfying our leaders, why not run propaganda glorifying our country. This is a capitalist country, why not sell democracy as a solution to these people's problems rather then shove it down their throats. It still seems ironic to me that we are enforcing democracy. Why not buy or bribe al gezera. These are just ideas I'm throwing out there.
We could have 100,000 spies around the world, all pretending to be people who want to get involved in terrorism, and weed organizations out that way.

And Im not trying to say I have all the answers, I'm just asking people to re-examine this policy we are practicing. I don't ask you guys to explain how you plan for the US to actually blow up every single terrorist in Iraq and through out the world. We can evolve other ideas, we are just so quick to jump to war. Understandably, it is human nature to want to war, but I don't think this way of fighting is going to be effective in this war.

Of course I don't expect you guys to understand spending money on anything other then tax cuts and war. This board is infested with idiots who probably jack off to rush limbaugh all day then go home and beat their wives. The hate that is generated through these forums is an obvious sign of troubled inividuals who are filled with hurt on the inside and take it out on the world. Your insecurity makes you greedy, and the idea of supporting a government that can kick everyone's ass in the world and destroy the planet many times over gives you a boner.

 

[Annie]

Originally posted by Kathianne
Well I wonder what it is you are proposing to do about the evil terrorists? Sing Kumbaya? Send the Peace Corps? Get Kofi to give them a job in the Oil for Food Program?

What is YOUR idea of a solution?

Still waiting, for some reason 'idealist' didn't leap to mind. You've presented wonderful ideas, problem is we have given mucho dollars to these areas before, no good results. Actually awhile back, a Saudi sent several other Saudis and Egyptians to pay us back, and it wasn't a song.

In both Iraq and Afghanistan we are building schools and employing spies. We are trying to 'dialogue' over there, but perhaps are a bit more suspicious.

Your way wasn't working and don't think you'll see wholesale naps again.

 

[Insertalias]

oops I think I ment idealistic. Many time my conservitive friends call me idealistic as opposed to realistic

 

[Annie]

Well accusing me of getting a 'boner' is pretty weird, not idealistic, but weird.

You know nothing of 'us' or we you. Actually, it doesn't matter. See you discuss your point of view, not call names or make assumptions that because someone disagrees with you they are greedy or macho ready to go blow things up.

I for one would be thrilled if the terrorists agreed to stop their export of violence to nearly every country around the globe. I'll bet you anything, that if they did that, we'd gladly go home and return to our domestic policies. That wouldn't matter if Bush or Kerry.

 

[007]

Originally posted by Insertalias
Call me an idealist but I think that if we spent as much money that we do blowing people up on providing relief for these countries, and by increasing our network of spies and intelligents we would be doing a more effective job.

We tried "appeasement" under clinton. It didn't work. Terrorists costed America BILLIONS with all the destruction they dealt us, from the Cole to the World Trade Centers.

Death is all terrorists understand. Death is what we need to give them.

 

[Insertalias]

Those are two very reasonable thought out responses (not Rider). I appologize to you for lashing out, but I felt I was being "terrorized" and needed to "defend" myself. Likewise, I am responding to your nonthreatening logical response to my violent words with appreciation and gratitude. Thank you for pointing out to me that we do have some construtive operations going on. I doubt, however that we ever spent as much money doing construcive things to sway our global oppinion polls then we are spending on Iraq and Afganistan. Show me evidence that I am wrong and I will comend you.

The problem with killing innocent people is that those peope have famlies and friends that now believe that their relative/loved one is/are dead because of US aggresion. Those families and friends know people and those people feel the same way about American Liberation that the famlies do too. This oppinion is spread through out and is used to supplement the already existing distast for the US. This information, twisted through the rotting grapevine, changes the mind of Mohamad bin Zakowi Allah Jihad (imagenary character) from wanting to work at the oil drilling company to wanting to fight for his country/people/lifestyle. They blow us up we blow them up they blow us upwe blow them up they blow us up
we blow them up they blow us up
we blow them up they blow us up
It doesn't end. I mean Isreal has been fighting terrorism before 9/11 and look how peaceful their country turned out to be. It will never ever end this way

 

[Annie]

I do hear what you're saying, just disagree with the premise. I can wish forever that you would be correct, but 9/11 wiped out that hope for most. For me, I'd have to say it was the Iranian hostage crisis or the bombings of the Marines in Beirut.

My threshold for this stuff is low, but then again, Churchill is one of my heroes. I read alot of history and it just hasn't made sense to me that a country, anymore than a person should take sucker punch after sucker punch. The bullies just don't get it.

We are not delivering unmitigated revenge, not on Iraq and not even on Afghanistan. I think we should be doing something about the Saudis, Iranians, and Syrians. NK most definately should be on the list. I don't think all will be bombs, provided they no longer see us as a 'paper tiger.'

 

[Comrade]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
well, I suppose if I was a blind pro-american I'd call it obscure and unbelievable as well with articles like THIS

There are many differences between the United States war in Iraq and the war in Vietnam. But there are some obvious similarities. Both conflicts, for one example, involved widespread brutality by the American armed forces toward civilians and the torture of "suspected" enemies.

Thirty-five years ago, commenting on the American massacre in My Lai, Vietnam, this author wrote an editorial in the Guardian weekly (US) that contained the following paragraph: "This calculated slaughter of the innocents is neither a mistake nor an aberration, neither a temporary moral lapse on the part of weary GIs nor the debased sadism of a few perverts. The murder of more than 500 civilian residents of My Lai - children in arms, women and men - is the quintessential expression of American imperialism and racism directed toward one hamlet in ravaged South Vietnam."

The murder, rape and torture of My Lai came to mind recently when President George W Bush insisted that the shattering revelations of the use of torture by the US military against inmates in Baghdad's Abu Ghraib prison were the product of a "few people who have stained the honor of this country". He argued, "that's not the way we do things in America".

The history of the US is nothing if not contradictory. Its extraordinarily productive economy has transformed the US into the world's most powerful state, and its society offers a certain degree of liberty, opportunity and benefit to some - though hardly all - of its citizens. As such, those who promote America depict the country as the apex of civilized development and the beacon of freedom and democracy.

In this connection, of course, it must be noted that the history of the US has been punctuated frequently by episodes of extreme barbarism, oppression and torture toward largely non-European peoples since it was colonized nearly 400 years ago. Our vast continental configuration is the product of a long campaign of genocide and displacement of the indigenous population; our economic growth was assisted until 1865 by over 200 years of slave labor from kidnapped and brutalized Africans who were tortured at the whim of their masters.

I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so.

I said this at the very beginning of the scandal outbreak.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5957&highlight=Vietnam

"I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop and for Kerry and the Lib media to refer to the Mai Lai massacre in Vietnam alongside this story. In 3... 2... 1...

Not that this nude Arab photo incident involves any rape, torture, or murder, all more serious war crimes from Vietnam.

But that's what they'll do, draw comparisons."

 

[Insertalias]

Please don't assume I cut and run from my oppinions so easily if I am not at my computer to immediately respond to your arguments. I am going to sleep for a while. I will return to the board when I get a chance. If you guys want a schedule of when I think I have time to respond maybe I can draw one up for you (sarcasim), otherwise chill the fuck out. :56:

 

[Annie]

Well, never underestimate the terrorists for shedding light on the constant stream of flagellation offered by our media. Since the pics came out they managed to behead an American and get caught with WMD. I know the media is doing their very best to sweep these away, blaming the short attention of 24 hour news cycles, but the internet doesn't let that happen. Thanks to a board like this, blogs, writers that just can't be 'mainstream' anymore, the stories are out and for some reason the people are noticing.

Bush's numbers are going up a bit, will take awhile to make sure it's not just a blip, but for 3 years now, the people have stayed true to the issues, while sometimes bewildered by the leadership. Time will tell.

 

[rcajun90]

>Call me an idealist but I think that if we spent as much money that we do blowing people up on providing relief for these countries, and by increasing our network of spies and intelligents we would be doing a more effective job.<

You are an idealist dreamer. That doesn't make you a bad or stupid person but just a dreamer. We were feeding the Taliban up 9/11. All the while they were harbouring Al-Queda hell bent to destroy us. These people have declared war on us and are willing to do anything to destroy us.


>We could build schools with this money and do other things to change all the negative publlic opinion of our country. Fight the ignorant extremist with knowledge, provide libraries. Be altrustic world leaders and appear that way.<

This did Nick Berg a lot of good. We are building schools and helping them in many ways. My sons school is collecting everything from money to toys to send to Iraq. I believe in this approach to extent but I think there is something about the Arab culture and mindset where loyality and friendship doesn't mean the same thing to us.

>We run campiagn ads in our country gloryfying our leaders, why not run propaganda glorifying our country. This is a capitalist country, why not sell democracy as a solution to these people's problems rather then shove it down their throats. It still seems ironic to me that we are enforcing democracy. Why not buy or bribe al gezera. These are just ideas I'm throwing out there.
We could have 100,000 spies around the world, all pretending to be people who want to get involved in terrorism, and weed organizations out that way.<

You would have 100,000 hostages not spies.

>And Im not trying to say I have all the answers, I'm just asking people to re-examine this policy we are practicing. I don't ask you guys to explain how you plan for the US to actually blow up every single terrorist in Iraq and through out the world. We can evolve other ideas, we are just so quick to jump to war. Understandably, it is human nature to want to war, but I don't think this way of fighting is going to be effective in this war.<

It's not human nature to want war. It's human nature to want peace. War is always the last resort. War is what happens when you can't reason with those that hate you and want to kill you. I would love for all the folks in the Middle East to live in a democracy where they could enjoy a standard of living on par with the U.S. and Europe. With all the oil they have they should. Iraq is a good example as to how much evil is on the lose there and they hell bent on preventing this.

>Of course I don't expect you guys to understand spending money on anything other then tax cuts and war. This board is infested with idiots who probably jack off to rush limbaugh all day then go home and beat their wives.<

Gross. I was actually starting to respect you until I read this. I'm a very conservative democrat. I've never voted for a republican but I will this year. I find Rush limbaugh to be nothing more than a mouth piece for the extreme right. If I was going to do the actions you describe it wouldn't be to a pill poping man! I'm not a homosexual. Even a homosexual would have to be pretty sick to find Limbaugh attractive.

>The hate that is generated through these forums is an obvious sign of troubled inividuals who are filled with hurt on the inside and take it out on the world. Your insecurity makes you greedy, and the idea of supporting a government that can kick everyone's ass in the world and destroy the planet many times over gives you a boner.<

Force is the only thing these radical Islamic Facist understand. Saddam stayed in power for over 30 years by being ruthless. There are many other regimes in this area that have stayed in power the same way. You can't talk to animals. You got to smack them in the head to get them to understand.

 

[Comrade]

rcajun90,

Just thought I'd tell you how much I agree with you on that last post.

Of course you as a Conservative Democrat and me as a Liberal Republican there isn't exactly a chasm of opinion between us.

 

[Insertalias]

Thank you guys for sharing you point of views. I feel a little better about what we are doing in Iraq, but would still like to think that there is a better way. I can think of no other arguments to beat this dead horse with. I apologize again for making generalizations

 

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by Insertalias
Thank you guys for sharing you point of views. . . . l like to think that there is a better way.

That is the problem..... You are thinking! The left always "thinks" and "feels" but they never "do". We have to "do" something about the ME. Clinton, in a liberal, lovey, feeley, thinking, kind of way tried to appease them. It didn't work. So Bush is "doing" something - bringing the war TO them.

Action is needed, not words or "thoughts".

 

[The Worried One]

Didn't your mother ever teach you to think before you act???
Maybe Bush's mother forgot too

 

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by The Worried One
Didn't your mother ever teach you to think before you act???
Maybe Bush's mother forgot too

An idiotic reply.

You can think, but have you ever heard the old saying "if you think long, you think wrong". Thinking alone solves nothing. That was my point!

 

[nycflasher]

Originally posted by freeandfun1
That is the problem..... You are thinking! The left always "thinks" and "feels" but they never "do". We have to "do" something about the ME. Clinton, in a liberal, lovey, feeley, thinking, kind of way tried to appease them. It didn't work. So Bush is "doing" something - bringing the war TO them.

Action is needed, not words or "thoughts".

I would just add that had 9/11 occurred during Clinton's presidency, it would have been different.

I won't disagree with a need for action in combatting thes foo's, though.

 

[JIHADTHIS]

Originally posted by nycflasher
I would just add that had 9/11 occurred during Clinton's presidency, it would have been different.

In my never ending quest to see how people think...care to elaborate?

 

[nycflasher]

Originally posted by JIHADTHIS
In my never ending quest to see how people think...care to elaborate?

My understanding is that while we could have captured OBL then, for example, APPARENTLY the proof wasn't there. Certainly it would have been if the attack had occured earlier.

That's what I meant. Bush will get some credit just for being a wartime President.