Does the GOP believe in a God of intolerance?

[Missourian]

Allow me to re-post something I posted in the Religion Forum a few days ago.

I was searching for free public domain books to download for my eReader and came across this from Alexis de Tocqueville's Democracy in America 1835:

"Moreover, almost all the sects of the United States are comprised within the great unity of Christianity, and Christian morality is everywhere the same. In the United States the sovereign authority is religious, and consequently hypocrisy must be common; but there is no country in the whole world in which the Christian religion retains a greater influence over the souls of men than in America, and there can be no greater proof of its utility, and of its conformity to human nature, than that its influence is most powerfully felt over the most enlightened and free nation of the earth.

The Americans combine the notions of Christianity and of liberty so intimately in their minds, that it is impossible to make them conceive the one without the other; and with them this conviction does not spring from that barren traditionary faith which seems to vegetate in the soul rather than to live.

There are certain populations in Europe whose unbelief is only equaled by their ignorance and their debasement, while in America one of the freest and most enlightened nations in the world fulfills all the outward duties of religion with fervor.

Upon my arrival in the United States, the religious aspect of the country was the first thing that struck my attention; and the longer I stayed there, the more did I perceive the great political consequences resulting from this state of things, to which I was unaccustomed. In France I had almost always seen the spirit of religion and the spirit of freedom pursuing courses diametrically opposed to each other; but in America I found that they were intimately united, and that they reigned in common over the same country."


​

Alexis de Tocqueville - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Ali777]

You don't get to decide who I do or do not accept. What is it with idiots, that they think they have some God Given right to decide what other people think?

At the risk of repeating myself.... Idiot.

I can decide anything I want to. Not really much you can do about it.
Don't post contradictory statements if you don't want people picking
them apart.

Sure you can decide anything you want to.

That doesn't stop us from proving it's a load of crap!

I really wish you could. Unfortunately as it stands her comments were contradictory. Or didn't you read them? You're either tolerant of everyone, or not. You can't claim to accept blacks, Jews, "and everyone else"---then also claim you're intolerant of those who express opinions you don't agree with.

 

[MarcATL]

I'm not defending anyone. I'm taking YOU on about judging others GIVEN YOUR POLITICS.

Where do you get off judging someone else's Christianity when I caught you lying (Remember your claim I said Obama was half black? I sure do)

And you support Democrats who VOTE AND SUPPORT ABORTION.

Don't lie and say otherwise. Your support of Obama is quite obvious.

Try ME. Because YOU are the one who needs to defend his actions.

I think you are sick and deranged.

Not to mention obsessing over me.

I had no idea I had this much of an affect on you.

Creepy!

I've already addressed that lie you are currenlty spewing. It's quite possible I THOUGHT you said he was half-black, however, you are holding on to that misunderstanding for dear life and won't let it go, as if its a treasure. Do as you wish.

As Christians, we are not be concerned with trivial matters of the world, like politics, because as Christians we realize that its all bad, it's all worldy, it's all temporal aka going to be destroyed.

As it pertains to this argument, the Bible has a very clear stance on how people who pretend to be God-like are treated. Read Exodus and study the portions where the priests were dealt with. Heathen nations get dealt with as well, yes, but people who PROFESS to be Godly are held to a certain standard and certainly get dealt with.

If you are Christian and a student of the Word, you [SHOULD] know this.

I'll await your next excuse.

The only thing creepy here is you got caught lying and you still want to come off as some self-righteous "Christian" who can judge others.

In other words when put to it, you just start attacking me, which proves you know you are going to lose such a debate.

But THE BIBLE HAS A VERY CLEAR STANCE ON ABORTION AS WELL.

And YOU claim to be a Christian while supporting the guy who (in Chicago) tried to stop saving babies that survived abortion.

Obama More Pro-Choice Than NARAL - HUMAN EVENTS

But the Bible is very clear that God considers us as living not only from conception BUT BEFORE!

Jeremiah Chapter 1 (TANAKH)

5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee, and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee; I have appointed thee a prophet unto the nations.

Luke 1:41-44 King James Version (KJV)



41And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

42And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

43And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
44For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.

By the Holy Ghost Elizabeth acknowelged that Jesus was her Lord, WHILE HE WAS IN THE WOMB.

Yet Barack Obama votes against saving those individuals that God says he knows BEFORE THEY WERE EVEN CONCEIVED.

And YOU want to lecture others about Christianity, given your support of Obama????????

Like I said before, DON'T DEBATE ME ON THE BIBLE. You will lose, lose badly and be furious when you do lose.

Want to continue?

No...I don't think so.

You have, at BEST, a very rudimentary knowledge of the Bible. The fact that you view this as some sort of competition speaks volumes as to your walk with Christ.

What you've just posted is basic knowledge.

I'd like to know what's the official stance on Abortion as per the Bible.

Note, I'm not arguing against the beginning of life, I happen to believe in the Bible and that life begins at conception.

God said it, I believe it. End of story.

However, how do we as Christians manifest that and deal with it in our lives?

Do we thrust our beliefs unto others?

Do you know the Bible says to keep the Sabbath, which is not Sunday? Do you keep the Sabbath holy?

The Bible states that pork is unclean food...do you currently eat pork?

There's many more, but those are two basic and major ones.

 

[Missourian]

I would like to challenge this idea that Christians are intolerant of others.

I treat everyone with respect, regardless or race, creed, color, religious beliefs of lack thereof, sexual orientation, political orientation or ideology.

Don't mistake disagreement with intolerance.

There are a host of people here I disagree with but also like and respect.

 

[AllieBaba]

I can decide anything I want to. Not really much you can do about it.
Don't post contradictory statements if you don't want people picking
them apart.

Sure you can decide anything you want to.

That doesn't stop us from proving it's a load of crap!

I really wish you could. Unfortunately as it stands her comments were contradictory. Or didn't you read them? You're either tolerant of everyone, or not. You can't claim to accept blacks, Jews, "and everyone else"---then also claim you're intolerant of those who express opinions you don't agree with.

What relativist bullshit.

Of course you can disagree with people without being *intolerant*.

And it's perfectly acceptable to be *intolerant* of behavior, actions or even views that are destructive.

 

[AllieBaba]

And in re: the OP...when was it established that the GOP is a religious organization that collectively worship at the same altar???

 

[MarcATL]

I would like to challenge this idea that Christians are intolerant of others.

I treat everyone with respect, regardless or race, creed, color, religious beliefs of lack thereof, sexual orientation, political orientation or ideology.

Don't mistake disagreement with intolerance.

There are a host of people here I disagree with but also like and respect.

You, sir, are clearly not a Fire and Brimstone type Christian...aka a RW Christian.

 

[AllieBaba]

I would like to challenge this idea that Christians are intolerant of others.

I treat everyone with respect, regardless or race, creed, color, religious beliefs of lack thereof, sexual orientation, political orientation or ideology.

Don't mistake disagreement with intolerance.

There are a host of people here I disagree with but also like and respect.

You, sir, are clearly not a Fire and Brimstone type Christian...aka a RW Christian.

And you are clearly a bigot.

 

[MarcATL]

I would like to challenge this idea that Christians are intolerant of others.

I treat everyone with respect, regardless or race, creed, color, religious beliefs of lack thereof, sexual orientation, political orientation or ideology.

Don't mistake disagreement with intolerance.

There are a host of people here I disagree with but also like and respect.

You, sir, are clearly not a Fire and Brimstone type Christian...aka a RW Christian.

And you are clearly a bigot.

You are clearly a liar if you're even suggesting that the Fire and Brimstone type Christians aren't RWers.

You can neg rep til Kingdom Come, doesn't change that fact.

The TRUTH shouldn't be an OFFENSE!!

 

[bodecea]

I would like to challenge this idea that Christians are intolerant of others.

I treat everyone with respect, regardless or race, creed, color, religious beliefs of lack thereof, sexual orientation, political orientation or ideology.

Don't mistake disagreement with intolerance.

There are a host of people here I disagree with but also like and respect.

You, sir, are clearly not a Fire and Brimstone type Christian...aka a RW Christian.

And you are clearly a bigot.

Ah...a christian bigot?

 

[American Legacy]

As a Presidential candidate Obama once said .'we are no longer a Christian nation; we are now a Nation of Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, . .'

With 83% of Americans identifying themselves as a Christian and only 4-6% affiliating themselves with a non-Christian religion, the United States is very much still "a Christian nation."

There's nothing wrong with that. Yet his remarks went viral on the internet.

Because it revealed a presidential candidates condescension of traditional American values (as so many of his other statements and actions do.)

Religious intolerant right-wing zealots went crazy.

In other words, God-fearing patriotic Americans who value our country's spiritual heritage, took exception to candidate Obama's remarks.

They simply could not believe that a Presidential candidate could say something so "outrageous".

See above.

After all, some claimed, our forefathers fought to make this a Christian nation.

The facts support this and even Obama himself, in the quote above, admits he believes America was a Christian nation.

There was even an email being circulated, telling Christians to come out in force and vote against Obama. The email claimed that God himself would keep Obama from becoming President.

Oh no! The Christians voted! Somebody call the cops! We should want Americans to be concerned enough the quality of leadership in this country to come out and vote. You seem to imply this is illegitimate if the voters happen to be Christians.

Well, guess what?

What God is this anyway?

Is it the same God the rest of us know of? One doesn't even have to be a Christian to know that it is not.

Since there are as many concepts of "god" as there are individuals who draw breath, this is completely nonsensical. Never mind the generally accepted conception of God from the 83% of self-identified Christians in the United States isn't going to be dictatead to them by the 12% or so of self-identified non-religious people in this country.

What is it about the religious right that they can't tolerate those of differing faiths?

Translation: why do people who want to hold our civil leaders to Biblical standards of conduct get to participate in the public square? Waaaahhhh!!!!!

What happens inside of them that they are so outraged over a Presidential candidate stating the truth about this country?

We are not just a Christian nation.

Your tiny section of the country clearly isn't, but you're in a minority. If you can't understand why an 83% majority of the American people would be upset by the other 17% making the rules, then I suggest you go back to elementary school and start over.

Well it's another election cycle and the GOP is courting the religious right. With Huckabee out of the picture, that's to be expected I guess.

Far less unsavory than the special interest groups the Democrats court each election cycle.

We can look forward to yet another election where the GOP God will rear it's ugly head. The quest for Christian dominion over the US continues.

Your gross mischaracterization of people of faith participating in the public arena as some kind of zealous mob seeking to install a theocracy wreaks not of Christianity but of Islam. (Can you say "Arab Spring?" I knew you could!)

Even though the head of the beast has been chopped off, it's evil influences is still a threat.

Calling night "day" and day "night" is standard practice by people who truly do want to hide their evil from the light of truth. Congratulations. You've been hoisted on your own petard.

And it's followers won't be happy until we eliminate pesky concepts like "separation of Church and State".

Yes, because it's a total coincidence that the nation most founded on Christian ideals has spent two centuries as the most successful example of self-government in world history and spawned the greatest protections for the liberty and property of religious minorities the world has ever seen.

They won't be happy regardless really.

Nor would anyone being subjected to the grossly defamatory character assasination your vile post exemplifies.

Inflicting their intolerance in all aspects of our society just gives them some sort of twisted pleasure.

The only "twisted pleasure" derived here is from you in your assaults on a bulwark against the erosion of America's Christian heritage and the incredible system of goverment it spawned.

Better enjoy this much needed reprieve from their insanity while we can.

Where's our reprieve?

 

[MarcATL]

The most recent Fire & Brimstone type Christians in public discourse...

1. The lunatic who decided that to show the Muslims a lesson, or America, that he should burn the Koran.
2. The raving lunatic that said that the Rapture is coming, and has come, at this point.
3. The raving lunatics that go around American's funerals protesting saying "God hates fags" etc. so therefore is punishing America by killing people/soldiers/fags/destroying cities, etc.

These are all RWers.

I challenge anyone to produce a Fire and Brimstone type Christian that's on the left.

You should me a Fire and Brimstone type Christian and I'll show you a rabid RW Christian.

End of story.

 

[Ali777]

Sure you can decide anything you want to.

That doesn't stop us from proving it's a load of crap!

I really wish you could. Unfortunately as it stands her comments were contradictory. Or didn't you read them? You're either tolerant of everyone, or not. You can't claim to accept blacks, Jews, "and everyone else"---then also claim you're intolerant of those who express opinions you don't agree with.

What relativist bullshit.

Of course you can disagree with people without being *intolerant*.

And it's perfectly acceptable to be *intolerant* of behavior, actions or even views that are destructive.

I think you need to re-read what was actually posted. Especially the part about "CLAIMING TO BE INTOLERANT". There was an admission of being intolerant. If a person makes such a claim ,then it's not really in dispute, now is it?

 

[bodecea]

The most recent Fire & Brimstone type Christians in public discourse...

1. The lunatic who decided that to show the Muslims a lesson, or America, that he should burn the Koran.
2. The raving lunatic that said that the Rapture is coming, and has come, at this point.
3. The raving lunatics that go around American's funerals protesting saying "God hates fags" etc. so therefore is punishing America by killing people/soldiers/fags/destroying cities, etc.

These are all RWers.

I challenge anyone to produce a Fire and Brimstone type Christian that's on the left.

You should me a Fire and Brimstone type Christian and I'll show you a rabid RW Christian.

End of story.

Don't forget the erstwhile Presidential candidate who blamed 9/11 on atheists and gays and said that the hurricanes that hit Florida and New Orleans were god's punishment for not following god (as interpreted by that erstwhile Presidential candidate...mind you)

 

[Missourian]

I would like to challenge this idea that Christians are intolerant of others.

I treat everyone with respect, regardless or race, creed, color, religious beliefs of lack thereof, sexual orientation, political orientation or ideology.

Don't mistake disagreement with intolerance.

There are a host of people here I disagree with but also like and respect.

You, sir, are clearly not a Fire and Brimstone type Christian...aka a RW Christian.

Fire and Brimstone? No. More of a 'Hate the sin, not the Sinner, Plank in my eye before mote in my brothers eye' type Christian.

I'm definitely a social conservative, especially when it comes to abortion.

That probably puts me in the RW Christian category in the minds of many.

 

[Missourian]

The most recent Fire & Brimstone type Christians in public discourse...

1. The lunatic who decided that to show the Muslims a lesson, or America, that he should burn the Koran.
2. The raving lunatic that said that the Rapture is coming, and has come, at this point.
3. The raving lunatics that go around American's funerals protesting saying "God hates fags" etc. so therefore is punishing America by killing people/soldiers/fags/destroying cities, etc.

These are all RWers.

I challenge anyone to produce a Fire and Brimstone type Christian that's on the left.

You should me a Fire and Brimstone type Christian and I'll show you a rabid RW Christian.

End of story.

Rev. Wright.

 

[MarcATL]

The most recent Fire & Brimstone type Christians in public discourse...

1. The lunatic who decided that to show the Muslims a lesson, or America, that he should burn the Koran.
2. The raving lunatic that said that the Rapture is coming, and has come, at this point.
3. The raving lunatics that go around American's funerals protesting saying "God hates fags" etc. so therefore is punishing America by killing people/soldiers/fags/destroying cities, etc.

These are all RWers.

I challenge anyone to produce a Fire and Brimstone type Christian that's on the left.

You should me a Fire and Brimstone type Christian and I'll show you a rabid RW Christian.

End of story.

Rev. Wright.

that's not fire and brimstone...whites just don't like to hear those sorts of truths as it reminds them of their past.

Nice try though.

 

[Missourian]

The most recent Fire & Brimstone type Christians in public discourse...

1. The lunatic who decided that to show the Muslims a lesson, or America, that he should burn the Koran.
2. The raving lunatic that said that the Rapture is coming, and has come, at this point.
3. The raving lunatics that go around American's funerals protesting saying "God hates fags" etc. so therefore is punishing America by killing people/soldiers/fags/destroying cities, etc.

These are all RWers.

I challenge anyone to produce a Fire and Brimstone type Christian that's on the left.

You should me a Fire and Brimstone type Christian and I'll show you a rabid RW Christian.

End of story.

Rev. Wright.

that's not fire and brimstone...whites just don't like to hear those sorts of truths as it reminds them of their past.

Nice try though.

Rev. Wright is as far out on the fringe as number 1 and number 2 on your list.

[youtube]hwQWuQVE6sw[/youtube]​

And let's not forget that the founder and Reverend of the Westboro Baptist church, Fred Phelps, is a lifelong Democrat who is on record as supporting both Al Gore and Bill Clinton.

Democratic Party

[Rev] Phelps has run in various Kansas Democratic Party primaries five times, but has never won. These included races for governor in 1990, 1994, and 1998, receiving about 15 percent of the vote in 1998. In the 1992 Democratic Party primary for U.S. Senate, Phelps received 31 percent of the vote. Phelps ran for mayor of Topeka in 1993and 1997.

Fred Phelps - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

​

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Rev. Wright
Rev. Jesse Jackson
Rev. Al Sharpton
...

 

[AllieBaba]

"God damn America" is not fire and brimstone?

I propose that someone doesn't have a clue what fire and brimstone is.

Incidentally, most of Islam is what one could call "fire and brimstone". Sunni Man and I are oppositional in many ways....he is Muslim, I'm conservative Baptist. But I think we have the same concept of what God's/Allah's displeasure will bring...fire and brimstone.