Does God want us to judge him?

[Taz]

I’m asking why god would let this happen.

To teach us.

Doctrine and Covenants 122

“If thou art called to pass through tribulation; if thou art in perils among false brethren; if thou art in perils among robbers; if thou art in perils by land or by sea;

6 If thou art accused with all manner of false accusations; if thine enemies fall upon thee; if they tear thee from the society of thy father and mother and brethren and sisters; and if with a drawn sword thine enemies tear thee from the bosom of thy wife, and of thine offspring, and thine elder son, although but six years of age, shall cling to thy garments, and shall say, My father, my father, why can’t you stay with us? O, my father, what are the men going to do with you? and if then he shall be thrust from thee by the sword, and thou be dragged to prison, and thine enemies prowl around thee like wolves for the blood of the lamb;

7 And if thou shouldst be cast into the pit, or into the hands of murderers, and the sentence of death passed upon thee; if thou be cast into the deep; if the billowing surge conspire against thee; if fierce winds become thine enemy; if the heavens gather blackness, and all the elements combine to hedge up the way; and above all, if the very jaws of hell shall gape open the mouth wide after thee, know thou, my son, that all these things shall give thee experience, and shall be for thy good.

8 The Son of Man hath descended below them all. Art thou greater than he?” (D&C 122:5-8)

What dies this gibberish have to do with god making deformed and mentally retarded babies on purpose?

Everything if you are listening

So you can't explain it. Thought you'd run.

I already did

Not in a coherent way. You can't actually explain, just quote seemingly random passages.

 

[Avatar4321]

To teach us.

Doctrine and Covenants 122

“If thou art called to pass through tribulation; if thou art in perils among false brethren; if thou art in perils among robbers; if thou art in perils by land or by sea;

6 If thou art accused with all manner of false accusations; if thine enemies fall upon thee; if they tear thee from the society of thy father and mother and brethren and sisters; and if with a drawn sword thine enemies tear thee from the bosom of thy wife, and of thine offspring, and thine elder son, although but six years of age, shall cling to thy garments, and shall say, My father, my father, why can’t you stay with us? O, my father, what are the men going to do with you? and if then he shall be thrust from thee by the sword, and thou be dragged to prison, and thine enemies prowl around thee like wolves for the blood of the lamb;

7 And if thou shouldst be cast into the pit, or into the hands of murderers, and the sentence of death passed upon thee; if thou be cast into the deep; if the billowing surge conspire against thee; if fierce winds become thine enemy; if the heavens gather blackness, and all the elements combine to hedge up the way; and above all, if the very jaws of hell shall gape open the mouth wide after thee, know thou, my son, that all these things shall give thee experience, and shall be for thy good.

8 The Son of Man hath descended below them all. Art thou greater than he?” (D&C 122:5-8)

What dies this gibberish have to do with god making deformed and mentally retarded babies on purpose?

Everything if you are listening

So you can't explain it. Thought you'd run.

I already did

Not in a coherent way. You can't actually explain, just quote seemingly random passages.

This is precisely why nobody bothers to answering you anymore. You get multiple answers and then you pretend as if no one‘s answered you and claim victory. You’ve made it clear that you don’t sincerely want an answer. It’s some game to you where you remain ignorant while convincing yourself you’ve won some great victory

When will you admit that you’ve been answered?

God gives us difficult experiences to teach and test us

 

[Taz]

What dies this gibberish have to do with god making deformed and mentally retarded babies on purpose?

Everything if you are listening

So you can't explain it. Thought you'd run.

I already did

Not in a coherent way. You can't actually explain, just quote seemingly random passages.

This is precisely why nobody bothers to answering you anymore. You get multiple answers and then you pretend as if no one‘s answered you and claim victory. You’ve made it clear that you don’t sincerely want an answer. It’s some game to you where you remain ignorant while convincing yourself you’ve won some great victory

When will you admit that you’ve been answered?

God gives us difficult experiences to teach and test us

Explain it to me in English, those passages you quote don’t mean much to me in this context. But no, you’re too much of a religious faker to do the right thing.

 

[Avatar4321]

Everything if you are listening

So you can't explain it. Thought you'd run.

I already did

Not in a coherent way. You can't actually explain, just quote seemingly random passages.

This is precisely why nobody bothers to answering you anymore. You get multiple answers and then you pretend as if no one‘s answered you and claim victory. You’ve made it clear that you don’t sincerely want an answer. It’s some game to you where you remain ignorant while convincing yourself you’ve won some great victory

When will you admit that you’ve been answered?

God gives us difficult experiences to teach and test us

Explain it to me in English, those passages you quote don’t mean much to me in this context. But no, you’re too much of a religious faker to do the right thing.

I explained it to you in two different posts. What is hard to understand about it?

 

[Taz]

So you can't explain it. Thought you'd run.

I already did

Not in a coherent way. You can't actually explain, just quote seemingly random passages.

This is precisely why nobody bothers to answering you anymore. You get multiple answers and then you pretend as if no one‘s answered you and claim victory. You’ve made it clear that you don’t sincerely want an answer. It’s some game to you where you remain ignorant while convincing yourself you’ve won some great victory

When will you admit that you’ve been answered?

God gives us difficult experiences to teach and test us

Explain it to me in English, those passages you quote don’t mean much to me in this context. But no, you’re too much of a religious faker to do the right thing.

I explained it to you in two different posts. What is hard to understand about it?

The gibberish you quoted.

 

[ding]

I already did

Not in a coherent way. You can't actually explain, just quote seemingly random passages.

This is precisely why nobody bothers to answering you anymore. You get multiple answers and then you pretend as if no one‘s answered you and claim victory. You’ve made it clear that you don’t sincerely want an answer. It’s some game to you where you remain ignorant while convincing yourself you’ve won some great victory

When will you admit that you’ve been answered?

God gives us difficult experiences to teach and test us

Explain it to me in English, those passages you quote don’t mean much to me in this context. But no, you’re too much of a religious faker to do the right thing.

I explained it to you in two different posts. What is hard to understand about it?

The gibberish you quoted.

c'mon man, you know there’s no evidence or explanation you will accept.

 

[Taz]

Not in a coherent way. You can't actually explain, just quote seemingly random passages.

This is precisely why nobody bothers to answering you anymore. You get multiple answers and then you pretend as if no one‘s answered you and claim victory. You’ve made it clear that you don’t sincerely want an answer. It’s some game to you where you remain ignorant while convincing yourself you’ve won some great victory

When will you admit that you’ve been answered?

God gives us difficult experiences to teach and test us

Explain it to me in English, those passages you quote don’t mean much to me in this context. But no, you’re too much of a religious faker to do the right thing.

I explained it to you in two different posts. What is hard to understand about it?

The gibberish you quoted.

c'mon man, you know there’s no evidence or explanation you will accept.

Just because I haven't heard anything substantial doesn't mean that I give up the search and settle for something half baked. The truth is out there, we just don't seem to have gotten there yet.

 

[ding]

This is precisely why nobody bothers to answering you anymore. You get multiple answers and then you pretend as if no one‘s answered you and claim victory. You’ve made it clear that you don’t sincerely want an answer. It’s some game to you where you remain ignorant while convincing yourself you’ve won some great victory

When will you admit that you’ve been answered?

God gives us difficult experiences to teach and test us

Explain it to me in English, those passages you quote don’t mean much to me in this context. But no, you’re too much of a religious faker to do the right thing.

I explained it to you in two different posts. What is hard to understand about it?

The gibberish you quoted.

c'mon man, you know there’s no evidence or explanation you will accept.

Just because I haven't heard anything substantial doesn't mean that I give up the search and settle for something half baked. The truth is out there, we just don't seem to have gotten there yet.

That’s not what you are doing.

I know because I searched for the answers and I didn’t look for them on internet message boards.

 

[Taz]

Explain it to me in English, those passages you quote don’t mean much to me in this context. But no, you’re too much of a religious faker to do the right thing.

I explained it to you in two different posts. What is hard to understand about it?

The gibberish you quoted.

c'mon man, you know there’s no evidence or explanation you will accept.

Just because I haven't heard anything substantial doesn't mean that I give up the search and settle for something half baked. The truth is out there, we just don't seem to have gotten there yet.

That’s not what you are doing.

I know because I searched for the answers and I didn’t look for them on internet message boards.

I don't know any religious people who believe that an invisible being wants us to follow a book. You folks are all I have.

 

[ding]

I explained it to you in two different posts. What is hard to understand about it?

The gibberish you quoted.

c'mon man, you know there’s no evidence or explanation you will accept.

Just because I haven't heard anything substantial doesn't mean that I give up the search and settle for something half baked. The truth is out there, we just don't seem to have gotten there yet.

That’s not what you are doing.

I know because I searched for the answers and I didn’t look for them on internet message boards.

I don't know any religious people who believe that an invisible being wants us to follow a book. You folks are all I have.

Then you have to look inside yourself because I have already provided the reasons why I did look inside myself.

 

[Taz]

The gibberish you quoted.

c'mon man, you know there’s no evidence or explanation you will accept.

Just because I haven't heard anything substantial doesn't mean that I give up the search and settle for something half baked. The truth is out there, we just don't seem to have gotten there yet.

That’s not what you are doing.

I know because I searched for the answers and I didn’t look for them on internet message boards.

I don't know any religious people who believe that an invisible being wants us to follow a book. You folks are all I have.

Then you have to look inside yourself because I have already provided the reasons why I did look inside myself.

There's nothing inside myself that points to a being that wants me to follow a book. And you don't have a standard way for everyone to do that and find a god.

 

[ding]

c'mon man, you know there’s no evidence or explanation you will accept.

Just because I haven't heard anything substantial doesn't mean that I give up the search and settle for something half baked. The truth is out there, we just don't seem to have gotten there yet.

That’s not what you are doing.

I know because I searched for the answers and I didn’t look for them on internet message boards.

I don't know any religious people who believe that an invisible being wants us to follow a book. You folks are all I have.

Then you have to look inside yourself because I have already provided the reasons why I did look inside myself.

There's nothing inside myself that points to a being that wants me to follow a book. And you don't have a standard way for everyone to do that and find a god.

Who said anything about a book?

People come to know God in their own way.

 

[Karl Rand]

OK what if we Judge God as morally bankrupt. Is he going to feel guilty or maybe even funnier, justify everything that’s gone wrong as biblical apologists have for centuries?

 

[Hollie]

Just because I haven't heard anything substantial doesn't mean that I give up the search and settle for something half baked. The truth is out there, we just don't seem to have gotten there yet.

That’s not what you are doing.

I know because I searched for the answers and I didn’t look for them on internet message boards.

I don't know any religious people who believe that an invisible being wants us to follow a book. You folks are all I have.

Then you have to look inside yourself because I have already provided the reasons why I did look inside myself.

There's nothing inside myself that points to a being that wants me to follow a book. And you don't have a standard way for everyone to do that and find a god.

Who said anything about a book?

People come to know God in their own way.

No. People come to their gods via happenstance of time and place of birth.

Babies seem to be blank slates, devoid of anything but instinct (eat, defecate, sleep, that sort of thing). They also display curiosity and experiment with their environment, so they seem far more in tune with the processes of science as opposed to those of faith. If you raise a baby in a Hindu culture, it will almost certainly embrace Hinduism; if in a Christian home, Christianity. All theistic beliefs are externally brought to human beings, none of them display inherent hardwiring. If you raise a child devoid of god concepts in the middle of a remote jungle, the child will not arbitrarily and spontaneously generate theism.

Consider this scenario: If we were both sitting on one of the Greek isles a few thousand years ago we’d be discussing the various attributes of Zeus as one of the various gods extant at that time. It’s just a fact that a few thousand years ago, believers were just as strident in their claims of "my god(s) is THE god(s)" extant at that time as believers are with the god(s) currently in vogue. If we were discussing these issues in the context of being born and raised in an Islamic nation, (where one is raised within a worldview entirely consumed with Islamism and one simply is not allowed the option of a considered choice as to religious belief), the expectation is, overwhelmingly, that the arguments you proffer in support of your god(s) would be different than they are in these threads. We are a product of our environments, as are humans and animals and as such we... evolve <---- (uh oh, I said that word)

 

[ding]

That’s not what you are doing.

I know because I searched for the answers and I didn’t look for them on internet message boards.

I don't know any religious people who believe that an invisible being wants us to follow a book. You folks are all I have.

Then you have to look inside yourself because I have already provided the reasons why I did look inside myself.

There's nothing inside myself that points to a being that wants me to follow a book. And you don't have a standard way for everyone to do that and find a god.

Who said anything about a book?

People come to know God in their own way.

No. People come to their gods via happenstance of time and place of birth.

Babies seem to be blank slates, devoid of anything but instinct (eat, defecate, sleep, that sort of thing). They also display curiosity and experiment with their environment, so they seem far more in tune with the processes of science as opposed to those of faith. If you raise a baby in a Hindu culture, it will almost certainly embrace Hinduism; if in a Christian home, Christianity. All theistic beliefs are externally brought to human beings, none of them display inherent hardwiring. If you raise a child devoid of god concepts in the middle of a remote jungle, the child will not arbitrarily and spontaneously generate theism.

Consider this scenario: If we were both sitting on one of the Greek isles a few thousand years ago we’d be discussing the various attributes of Zeus as one of the various gods extant at that time. It’s just a fact that a few thousand years ago, believers were just as strident in their claims of "my god(s) is THE god(s)" extant at that time as believers are with the god(s) currently in vogue. If we were discussing these issues in the context of being born and raised in an Islamic nation, (where one is raised within a worldview entirely consumed with Islamism and one simply is not allowed the option of a considered choice as to religious belief), the expectation is, overwhelmingly, that the arguments you proffer in support of your god(s) would be different than they are in these threads. We are a product of our environments, as are humans and animals and as such we... evolve <---- (uh oh, I said that word)

So if you look what has happened in Europe as a whole, the population has become less religious but not less spiritual. People didn’t abandon spirituality, they left organized religion.

 

[Taz]

Just because I haven't heard anything substantial doesn't mean that I give up the search and settle for something half baked. The truth is out there, we just don't seem to have gotten there yet.

That’s not what you are doing.

I know because I searched for the answers and I didn’t look for them on internet message boards.

I don't know any religious people who believe that an invisible being wants us to follow a book. You folks are all I have.

Then you have to look inside yourself because I have already provided the reasons why I did look inside myself.

There's nothing inside myself that points to a being that wants me to follow a book. And you don't have a standard way for everyone to do that and find a god.

Who said anything about a book?

People come to know God in their own way.

If god was real, there would be a standard way to reach it.

 

[Hollie]

I don't know any religious people who believe that an invisible being wants us to follow a book. You folks are all I have.

Then you have to look inside yourself because I have already provided the reasons why I did look inside myself.

There's nothing inside myself that points to a being that wants me to follow a book. And you don't have a standard way for everyone to do that and find a god.

Who said anything about a book?

People come to know God in their own way.

No. People come to their gods via happenstance of time and place of birth.

Babies seem to be blank slates, devoid of anything but instinct (eat, defecate, sleep, that sort of thing). They also display curiosity and experiment with their environment, so they seem far more in tune with the processes of science as opposed to those of faith. If you raise a baby in a Hindu culture, it will almost certainly embrace Hinduism; if in a Christian home, Christianity. All theistic beliefs are externally brought to human beings, none of them display inherent hardwiring. If you raise a child devoid of god concepts in the middle of a remote jungle, the child will not arbitrarily and spontaneously generate theism.

Consider this scenario: If we were both sitting on one of the Greek isles a few thousand years ago we’d be discussing the various attributes of Zeus as one of the various gods extant at that time. It’s just a fact that a few thousand years ago, believers were just as strident in their claims of "my god(s) is THE god(s)" extant at that time as believers are with the god(s) currently in vogue. If we were discussing these issues in the context of being born and raised in an Islamic nation, (where one is raised within a worldview entirely consumed with Islamism and one simply is not allowed the option of a considered choice as to religious belief), the expectation is, overwhelmingly, that the arguments you proffer in support of your god(s) would be different than they are in these threads. We are a product of our environments, as are humans and animals and as such we... evolve <---- (uh oh, I said that word)

So if you look what has happened in Europe as a whole, the population has become less religious but not less spiritual. People didn’t abandon spirituality, they left organized religion.

So... you agree your earlier claim “people come to know god in their own way” is nonsensical?

 

[ding]

Then you have to look inside yourself because I have already provided the reasons why I did look inside myself.

There's nothing inside myself that points to a being that wants me to follow a book. And you don't have a standard way for everyone to do that and find a god.

Who said anything about a book?

People come to know God in their own way.

No. People come to their gods via happenstance of time and place of birth.

Babies seem to be blank slates, devoid of anything but instinct (eat, defecate, sleep, that sort of thing). They also display curiosity and experiment with their environment, so they seem far more in tune with the processes of science as opposed to those of faith. If you raise a baby in a Hindu culture, it will almost certainly embrace Hinduism; if in a Christian home, Christianity. All theistic beliefs are externally brought to human beings, none of them display inherent hardwiring. If you raise a child devoid of god concepts in the middle of a remote jungle, the child will not arbitrarily and spontaneously generate theism.

Consider this scenario: If we were both sitting on one of the Greek isles a few thousand years ago we’d be discussing the various attributes of Zeus as one of the various gods extant at that time. It’s just a fact that a few thousand years ago, believers were just as strident in their claims of "my god(s) is THE god(s)" extant at that time as believers are with the god(s) currently in vogue. If we were discussing these issues in the context of being born and raised in an Islamic nation, (where one is raised within a worldview entirely consumed with Islamism and one simply is not allowed the option of a considered choice as to religious belief), the expectation is, overwhelmingly, that the arguments you proffer in support of your god(s) would be different than they are in these threads. We are a product of our environments, as are humans and animals and as such we... evolve <---- (uh oh, I said that word)

So if you look what has happened in Europe as a whole, the population has become less religious but not less spiritual. People didn’t abandon spirituality, they left organized religion.

So... you agree your earlier claim “people come to know god in their own way” is nonsensical?

Why would I deny that. I believe each person is called differently. Some hear it and some don’t.

 

[ding]

That’s not what you are doing.

I know because I searched for the answers and I didn’t look for them on internet message boards.

I don't know any religious people who believe that an invisible being wants us to follow a book. You folks are all I have.

Then you have to look inside yourself because I have already provided the reasons why I did look inside myself.

There's nothing inside myself that points to a being that wants me to follow a book. And you don't have a standard way for everyone to do that and find a god.

Who said anything about a book?

People come to know God in their own way.

If god was real, there would be a standard way to reach it.

Why? We are all unique individuals with different ways of learning and relating.

 

[Hollie]

I don't know any religious people who believe that an invisible being wants us to follow a book. You folks are all I have.

Then you have to look inside yourself because I have already provided the reasons why I did look inside myself.

There's nothing inside myself that points to a being that wants me to follow a book. And you don't have a standard way for everyone to do that and find a god.

Who said anything about a book?

People come to know God in their own way.

If god was real, there would be a standard way to reach it.

Why? We are all unique individuals with different ways of learning and relating.

Sure. That’s why different cultures have different versions of the gods.