Does God Exist?

[RDD_1210]

Your logic is airtight in it's refusal to look at things. I can't help you with that, you're just gonna have to figure it out yourself.

No. God DOESN'T give people cancer, people do. Look at all the crap we put in our air, water and food as well as what we pollute the ground with.

Doctors have recently released a study that states cancer is much more prevalent today than it was hundreds of years ago.

My logic is far from airtight, if I thought that I wouldn't bother trying to have this discussion and understand why people believe what they believe.

As to your points-
Ok fine. People give cancer to each other. No arguments here.

Next question -
Why doesn't God step in to at least help those that are truly innocent, yet are affected by mans actions which is no fault of their own?

You think God doesn't step in to help the innocent? Ever watch the news and see "miracle stories" like a stranger in NY who saw a little girl fall off the ferry and saved her, only nobody ever found out who he was? How about some of the miracle stories like a dude back in 2005 or 06 who fell off a bridge and survived for over 36 hours in cold weather on top of a concrete piling with his bones broken?

Yes, God DOES save people. And, for some of those people He saves, He sends in people like me, who've got the experience (child abuse and a bunch of other things I survived), to go in and save others before they hurt or kill themselves?

Want to know 2 areas where I excelled in my service career? Suicide prevention and alcoholism counselor. Why was I so good at it? Went through some of it myself with various family members, and even almost offed myself a couple of times prior to age 30.

Want to know something else? I'm grateful for the horrible experiences of my life, because I survived them, as well as know how to help others through them too.

Nope, sorry.......God exists.

A stranger saving someone is hardly a "miracle" or act of God. That's an act of human kindness. Someone who wanted to do the right thing. Maybe that person believes in God, maybe they don't. Either way, that persons action don't have anything with proving God exists.

I think it's fantastic that you're helping people based on your past experiences. But your past struggles are not proof of God either. They are proof that you have a brain and were able to learn through trial and error what is important in life and how to share that with others, which is great....but unfortunately not in any way evidence of God.

You obviously had times of weakness during your life, and now show great strength because of it. That's your own doing, not because some invisible entity supported you, or taught you some sort of lesson. It may help you to stay strong to think that you are being supported by some all powerful entity, and I say if that works for you, fine. But to step back and really think about the concept and notion of God, it really does not make sense on any rational level no matter what comfort you may get from God, or the thought of his existence.

Sorry, to anyone with a truly open mind, the exist of God is impossible.

 

[Urbanguerrilla]

Does God Exist?

Nope. If he did and was a god of love he would create a perfect world for us his children, where there would be no suffering or death...if I was god thats what I'd do...

 

[logical4u]

LOL, so let me get this straight. Innocent children who have never harmed anyone are being killed by God because of something that their parents did? This is what you are claiming? That all children who die of cancer because their parents are evil? So God punishes the innocent due to the action of the evil? Doesn't seem like a person I'd vote for, for Mayor let alone pray to as my "god".

I never said they "were killed by G*d". I said that if someone poisons their body (knowingly or not), it will be passed to their children. Have you ever seen "crack babies"? That was not G*d. That was uncaring parents. I did not say the parents were "evil". I said the children live with the parents' choices.
People were given the ability to reason, as a gift from G*d. It is also called "free will". Cancer is tricky, it can be hereditary, caused by environment, and can be manipulated thru diet (for progressing or retracting). To declare the each and every case "is caused by G*d" is extreme denial of a person's choices.
I know of no case of cancer where the patient claimed that the Lord "gave it to them". I do know of people that had cancer that claimed the Lord "gave them the strength to deal with it" physically, emotionally, and spiritually, and in some cases, cured it.
I wonder about your bitterness. If you are so willing to blame the Lord for all the terrible things, are you willing to give Him praise for all the good things in the world: a child's smile, a beautiful sky, scenery, having something you were looking for placed where you happened to be, not necessarily looking there, love, compassion, generosity, kindess and helping others?
I am sorry that you can not praise the Lord. Are you grateful for anything?

So if God didn't cause peoples cancer, why didn't he prevent it? I'm not blaming God for anything, I can't put blame on something I don't think exists. But how do you put your faith in something that either doesn't care about us or has no ability to make a difference in what happens to us.

I am grateful for MANY things. But how does any of those things that I, or you are grateful for prove that God exists?

We were not made to be "puppets" that can be made to do things. If G*d stepped in to prevent us from learning from our mistakes or righting all wrongs, we would not learn. We don't live in a 'doll house' were the Lord moves us from one adventure to another. We make our own choices. When we ask for assistance from the Lord, it is given (often, not in the form we wanted, but needed). Children are not puppets either. Their lives are determined by where they are born/live, what their parents have done (nutrition), and their genetics. Those are not the Lord's choices, those are choices made by people. Blaming the Lord for wrongs while not recognizing the wonders that he has done is choosing to act blindly.
Look at engines. What kind of variety is there? People built engines within the physical laws and their imaginations. How many different types are there? a hundred, two hundred? Now look at life, how many different forms are there? Millions. Most things stop when the job is accomplished. What could have put that much effort into making that variety of life? (please don't say evolution where one species will perpetuate one other species without change for centuries) Think about it. Why would life have any meaning without the "spiritual"?

 

[ABikerSailor]

My logic is far from airtight, if I thought that I wouldn't bother trying to have this discussion and understand why people believe what they believe.

As to your points-
Ok fine. People give cancer to each other. No arguments here.

Next question -
Why doesn't God step in to at least help those that are truly innocent, yet are affected by mans actions which is no fault of their own?

You think God doesn't step in to help the innocent? Ever watch the news and see "miracle stories" like a stranger in NY who saw a little girl fall off the ferry and saved her, only nobody ever found out who he was? How about some of the miracle stories like a dude back in 2005 or 06 who fell off a bridge and survived for over 36 hours in cold weather on top of a concrete piling with his bones broken?

Yes, God DOES save people. And, for some of those people He saves, He sends in people like me, who've got the experience (child abuse and a bunch of other things I survived), to go in and save others before they hurt or kill themselves?

Want to know 2 areas where I excelled in my service career? Suicide prevention and alcoholism counselor. Why was I so good at it? Went through some of it myself with various family members, and even almost offed myself a couple of times prior to age 30.

Want to know something else? I'm grateful for the horrible experiences of my life, because I survived them, as well as know how to help others through them too.

Nope, sorry.......God exists.

A stranger saving someone is hardly a "miracle" or act of God. That's an act of human kindness. Someone who wanted to do the right thing. Maybe that person believes in God, maybe they don't. Either way, that persons action don't have anything with proving God exists.

I think it's fantastic that you're helping people based on your past experiences. But your past struggles are not proof of God either. They are proof that you have a brain and were able to learn through trial and error what is important in life and how to share that with others, which is great....but unfortunately not in any way evidence of God.

You obviously had times of weakness during your life, and now show great strength because of it. That's your own doing, not because some invisible entity supported you, or taught you some sort of lesson. It may help you to stay strong to think that you are being supported by some all powerful entity, and I say if that works for you, fine. But to step back and really think about the concept and notion of God, it really does not make sense on any rational level no matter what comfort you may get from God, or the thought of his existence.

Sorry, to anyone with a truly open mind, the exist of God is impossible.

Wrong. A truly open mind would allow you to consider the possibility of God at minimum.

My past struggles aren't an act of God? Really? Because I sure as shit felt like He'd bailed me out several times. Some were as a 5 year old getting the shit kicked out of me 3-4 times/week by a 40 year old man who was my stepfather. I'm talking bruises, bleeding and broken nose. From 5-7 I had my nose broke a couple of times by him, but on the times that I felt like I was fixing to die (heavy trip for a child by the way), some strange thing would happen, like business associates or some other thing dropping by and me being left alone.

I've also had experiences during my teenage years when I ran away from a foster home and made it back to live with my Grandparents. Something made the bus for Missoula from Helena leave early, because just as I was getting ready to go back, when I showed up at the station on time, I missed the bus by around 5 minutes (they even said it left early at the station). Then, later that night as I was hiking from Great Falls to Vaughn, some college students (from Missoula) stopped and picked me up and gave me a ride to Vaughn. They offered to take me all the way back to Missoula, but I chose Vaughn (that was God asking me if I truly wanted this, because it meant I'd be walking out on a full ride college education), which resulted in my joining the Navy at 17 1/2 and in boot camp 3 days after my 18th birthday.

And, there have been many instances of that in my life. Not my fault you weren't willing to look for them, blame your close mindedness.

 

[RDD_1210]

You think God doesn't step in to help the innocent? Ever watch the news and see "miracle stories" like a stranger in NY who saw a little girl fall off the ferry and saved her, only nobody ever found out who he was? How about some of the miracle stories like a dude back in 2005 or 06 who fell off a bridge and survived for over 36 hours in cold weather on top of a concrete piling with his bones broken?

Yes, God DOES save people. And, for some of those people He saves, He sends in people like me, who've got the experience (child abuse and a bunch of other things I survived), to go in and save others before they hurt or kill themselves?

Want to know 2 areas where I excelled in my service career? Suicide prevention and alcoholism counselor. Why was I so good at it? Went through some of it myself with various family members, and even almost offed myself a couple of times prior to age 30.

Want to know something else? I'm grateful for the horrible experiences of my life, because I survived them, as well as know how to help others through them too.

Nope, sorry.......God exists.

A stranger saving someone is hardly a "miracle" or act of God. That's an act of human kindness. Someone who wanted to do the right thing. Maybe that person believes in God, maybe they don't. Either way, that persons action don't have anything with proving God exists.

I think it's fantastic that you're helping people based on your past experiences. But your past struggles are not proof of God either. They are proof that you have a brain and were able to learn through trial and error what is important in life and how to share that with others, which is great....but unfortunately not in any way evidence of God.

You obviously had times of weakness during your life, and now show great strength because of it. That's your own doing, not because some invisible entity supported you, or taught you some sort of lesson. It may help you to stay strong to think that you are being supported by some all powerful entity, and I say if that works for you, fine. But to step back and really think about the concept and notion of God, it really does not make sense on any rational level no matter what comfort you may get from God, or the thought of his existence.

Sorry, to anyone with a truly open mind, the exist of God is impossible.

Wrong. A truly open mind would allow you to consider the possibility of God at minimum.

My past struggles aren't an act of God? Really? Because I sure as shit felt like He'd bailed me out several times. Some were as a 5 year old getting the shit kicked out of me 3-4 times/week by a 40 year old man who was my stepfather. I'm talking bruises, bleeding and broken nose. From 5-7 I had my nose broke a couple of times by him, but on the times that I felt like I was fixing to die (heavy trip for a child by the way), some strange thing would happen, like business associates or some other thing dropping by and me being left alone.

I've also had experiences during my teenage years when I ran away from a foster home and made it back to live with my Grandparents. Something made the bus for Missoula from Helena leave early, because just as I was getting ready to go back, when I showed up at the station on time, I missed the bus by around 5 minutes (they even said it left early at the station). Then, later that night as I was hiking from Great Falls to Vaughn, some college students (from Missoula) stopped and picked me up and gave me a ride to Vaughn. They offered to take me all the way back to Missoula, but I chose Vaughn (that was God asking me if I truly wanted this, because it meant I'd be walking out on a full ride college education), which resulted in my joining the Navy at 17 1/2 and in boot camp 3 days after my 18th birthday.

And, there have been many instances of that in my life. Not my fault you weren't willing to look for them, blame your close mindedness.

NONE of what you went through is proof of God in any way. I'm actually VERY open minded, hence my questioning of God. I think the opposite is true and you are the one who is not considering the possibility that there is no God. What you went through is called life. Some people have it harder then others, some people end up having things fall their way (like apparently they have for you in the long run) while others things didn't turn out so well. Is that because of God? Of course not, God doesn't kill people at the same time he isn't saving people. ...Why, because he doesn't exist. The fact that YOU beat the odds of a tough childhood doesn't explain the fact that for everyone who does end up ok like you have there are countless others who werent so lucky and ended up dead. Did those people not deserve to live? Maybe some were bad people, maybe some weren't. It's the law of averages and you just happen to be a lucky one apparently. Good for you that you made something of your life. Still doesn't prove in any way, shape or form the existence of God.

 

[RDD_1210]

I never said they "were killed by G*d". I said that if someone poisons their body (knowingly or not), it will be passed to their children. Have you ever seen "crack babies"? That was not G*d. That was uncaring parents. I did not say the parents were "evil". I said the children live with the parents' choices.
People were given the ability to reason, as a gift from G*d. It is also called "free will". Cancer is tricky, it can be hereditary, caused by environment, and can be manipulated thru diet (for progressing or retracting). To declare the each and every case "is caused by G*d" is extreme denial of a person's choices.
I know of no case of cancer where the patient claimed that the Lord "gave it to them". I do know of people that had cancer that claimed the Lord "gave them the strength to deal with it" physically, emotionally, and spiritually, and in some cases, cured it.
I wonder about your bitterness. If you are so willing to blame the Lord for all the terrible things, are you willing to give Him praise for all the good things in the world: a child's smile, a beautiful sky, scenery, having something you were looking for placed where you happened to be, not necessarily looking there, love, compassion, generosity, kindess and helping others?
I am sorry that you can not praise the Lord. Are you grateful for anything?

So if God didn't cause peoples cancer, why didn't he prevent it? I'm not blaming God for anything, I can't put blame on something I don't think exists. But how do you put your faith in something that either doesn't care about us or has no ability to make a difference in what happens to us.

I am grateful for MANY things. But how does any of those things that I, or you are grateful for prove that God exists?

We were not made to be "puppets" that can be made to do things. If G*d stepped in to prevent us from learning from our mistakes or righting all wrongs, we would not learn. We don't live in a 'doll house' were the Lord moves us from one adventure to another. We make our own choices. When we ask for assistance from the Lord, it is given (often, not in the form we wanted, but needed). Children are not puppets either. Their lives are determined by where they are born/live, what their parents have done (nutrition), and their genetics. Those are not the Lord's choices, those are choices made by people. Blaming the Lord for wrongs while not recognizing the wonders that he has done is choosing to act blindly.

I deleted the whole evolution comment as thats an entirely separate topic.

But I highlighted the part of your statement that is TOTAL hypocrisy. You're the one that says that God doesn't kill people yet you sing his praises for all the good he is doing. I am not blaming God for killing anyone, but I'm also not giving him credit for doing anything good. You on the other hand act as if all the problems of the world are because of man, (which they are) but anything good in life is because God had a hand in it. Seems like you are the one acting blindly.

 

[Angel Heart]

RDD_1210 You made me think of a Jefferson quote...

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear."

Jefferson was a strong Christian but believed we have to question EVERYTHING.

 

[bag]

There is no proof of god.

There is no reason to believe in things that there is no proof of.

does wind exist? i wish someone could prove that.

 

[uscitizen]

RDD_1210 You made me think of a Jefferson quote...

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear."

Jefferson was a strong Christian but believed we have to question EVERYTHING.

Yep as a strong christian you should have a slave mistress.
Worked out well for Abraham too

 

[RDD_1210]

There is no proof of god.

There is no reason to believe in things that there is no proof of.

does wind exist? i wish someone could prove that.

Is this serious? We can measure and prove the existence of wind. This was sarcasm, right?

 

[amrchaos]

There is only one god? That is your opinion and you are welcome to it.

Actually, I meant to put that in quotes since that is the cornerstone of faith belonging to Christians and Muslims. In truth, if the Christians and muslims are correct, there are numerous gods!

In the 'new Covenant', the other gods are banished.

I am having problems outlining this new covenant.

Can you tell me where to find it? The new Testament? Exactly where is this topic of "No more other gods" posited?

 

[JohnA]

Wrong. Good people die every day because their fellow humans act like there ISN'T someone watching, and that is why they are killed.

And........He's not powerless. Bad things sometimes happen to good people because a situation arose, but it is also a test for the people around them to step in and help out their fellow human.

God does exist, it's just that people who are too self absorbed or ignorant won't acknowledge this, because they don't want to be bothered by helping out their fellow man.

Interestingly enough, there have been situations in my life (a few actually), where bad things happened to me, which later down the road of life became some of my strongest assets.

I've been through all 3 types of child abuse as a kid from 5 - 12, but because of that I've got experience that I can use to help out others who have gone through, or are going through those bad things, and I can help them out of the pit they were thrown into.

Some were very simple normal things which later turned out to be a great thing after I'd made it through, because it was replaced with something better. A good example of that was getting kicked out of my apartment because of a meth cook in my building (he spent a lot of time lying to the owners because he was pissed thinking that I'd called the cops on him). But that turned out to be a wonderful thing because now I live in a real house with a real yard.

Interestingly enough, I'm paying about the same amount in rent.

I'm not talking about crime. Explain to me the millions children who die from horrible diseases. Why does a God allow that to happen? Are those children being tested??

Actually, it's not so much that God allows children to die from horrible diseases, it's that the people utilize their self will and by not following God's direction, end up in places (or have things happen) that is away from Him, and then they die.

By the way, look up the 613 Mitzvot sometime and read them all. Know what it is basically? A way to live and be healthy and have a long life.

Christians know those instructions as the 10 Commandments, but again, the intent is the same, to keep humans alive. The first 3 Commandments are there to remind you who God is, tells you not to worship idols, and to not disrespect Him.

The very next one, number 4, is "thou shalt not murder".

The rest of them after that? It tells you what NOT to do so that someone doesn't come by and murder you (many people are murdered because of lies, adultery, coveting, etc).

And the one about respecting your parents? Remember.......they brought you into this world, they can take you out.

Remember the Sabbath? Simple.......if you don't take a break every now and again, you'll stress out and kill yourself.

So basically, follow the rules and you'll have a long and happy life. Don't, and you may not be here much longer.

O i see somebody didnt follow gods directions so their children die ,, nice god

so if you dont follow gods direction you die early huh

i see all the non believers die young and those that believe live a long life ( how long is that )

so you dont do anything on the sabbath and dont expect the police ,fire ,hospitals etc to be working either
your not of course a football fan and dont expect the nfl to work ON SUNDAYS MMMM

your full of b/s lay of the coolaid

 

[JohnA]

If you believe He exists and faith and trust in His existence sustains you, then yes, He exists. I believe He (or His presence) is within us.

If you don't believe in Him, then He doesn't - there's no presence of Him in your heart - and quite possibly the reason you are so miserable overall.

Misery loves company - perhaps that's why many who are so miserable lash out at those who are not miserable.

you make a lot of assumption there granny with out any foundation same as your believe in a fictional deity

ive been a non believer since i was 16 which was many years ago and im as happy now as i was as a teenager
i sleep well at night i dont wake up and feel unsecure as to whether ive offended my god of not
i enjoy my day **everyday ** with a clear conscience

I dont do any of the things i see SOME believes do like steal . commit murder . adultery and all of those nasty things they as christians should heed not to do as directed to them by the teaching in the bible .

so i dont need to atone for my sins to a man made god who was created by the church to control the masses

if i happen to make a mistake *as we all do in life *i blame myself learn from it and grow into a better person .

i dont blame the *devil * for my error i take the blame all on me

i dont thank god for all the nice things in life flowers . sun , my health etc

i help others in many ways i do charity work , dont have any hate for any race, greed, religion or livestyle .

in fact my life is deviod of stress i live in peace dont feel miserable but feel sad others cant throw of the bonds of enslavement of a restrictive and dominating belief system like i did .

i bet im happier than you are(there now im judging ) as you seem to always be JUDGING what others do or think which by the way is no concern of yours as long as they are not hurting you or interfering with your freedom\, instead of just going about your bisiness and enjoy whatever pleasure life has to offer to you .

relax unwind, and you will find much more in life to enjoy when you dont spend your time assuming those that dont think like you must be miserable .

i

 

[JohnA]

There is no proof of god.

There is no reason to believe in things that there is no proof of.

What a silly assertion. If we all had that attitude, it would be impossible to learn anything. Heck, Science is based on the idea that you create a hypothesis and then test it to see if it's correct. If you never venture out and test things you arent sure about, you never become sure of them.

No its not as you say a silly assertion .
science creates a hypotheses and then tests it
well for years man has tried to prove the existance of god and hasnt come up with anything
man doesnt know how life originated so he puts a god in there to conveniantly answer that question .

Science answers questions like the age of the earth which contradict religious teaching so the religious leaders immediatly change their thinking to coinside and keep the myth alive .

they po po cardon dating saying it is not a proven science and then when they supposidly find * noah.s ark * carbon dating is used as evidence to prove it .

god and a belief in a after life where you will not go to heaven if you dont *behave* as the hierarchy of the church decrees is a tool used for many centuries to control the masses it works well and is still very powerfull today

 

[ABikerSailor]

There is no proof of god.

There is no reason to believe in things that there is no proof of.

What a silly assertion. If we all had that attitude, it would be impossible to learn anything. Heck, Science is based on the idea that you create a hypothesis and then test it to see if it's correct. If you never venture out and test things you arent sure about, you never become sure of them.

No its not as you say a silly assertion .
science creates a hypotheses and then tests it
well for years man has tried to prove the existance of god and hasnt come up with anything
man doesnt know how life originated so he puts a god in there to conveniantly answer that question .

Science answers questions like the age of the earth which contradict religious teaching so the religious leaders immediatly change their thinking to coinside and keep the myth alive .

they po po cardon dating saying it is not a proven science and then when they supposidly find * noah.s ark * carbon dating is used as evidence to prove it .

god and a belief in a after life where you will not go to heaven if you dont *behave* as the hierarchy of the church decrees is a tool used for many centuries to control the masses it works well and is still very powerfull today

If you're interested, then check out The History Channel's "Through the Wormhole With Morgan Freeman", episode titled "Is there a Creator?"

It works through the science quite nicely.

 

[HUGGY]

This is directed at any reading what Avatard brings here. Avatard... being braiwashed is not "reaching out and investigating". I would not want to direct something right at Avatard because it would undoubtedly get it wrong ....and I won't be held responsible.

 

[ABikerSailor]

I'm not talking about crime. Explain to me the millions children who die from horrible diseases. Why does a God allow that to happen? Are those children being tested??

Actually, it's not so much that God allows children to die from horrible diseases, it's that the people utilize their self will and by not following God's direction, end up in places (or have things happen) that is away from Him, and then they die.

By the way, look up the 613 Mitzvot sometime and read them all. Know what it is basically? A way to live and be healthy and have a long life.

Christians know those instructions as the 10 Commandments, but again, the intent is the same, to keep humans alive. The first 3 Commandments are there to remind you who God is, tells you not to worship idols, and to not disrespect Him.

The very next one, number 4, is "thou shalt not murder".

The rest of them after that? It tells you what NOT to do so that someone doesn't come by and murder you (many people are murdered because of lies, adultery, coveting, etc).

And the one about respecting your parents? Remember.......they brought you into this world, they can take you out.

Remember the Sabbath? Simple.......if you don't take a break every now and again, you'll stress out and kill yourself.

So basically, follow the rules and you'll have a long and happy life. Don't, and you may not be here much longer.

O i see somebody didnt follow gods directions so their children die ,, nice god

so if you dont follow gods direction you die early huh

i see all the non believers die young and those that believe live a long life ( how long is that )

so you dont do anything on the sabbath and dont expect the police ,fire ,hospitals etc to be working either
your not of course a football fan and dont expect the nfl to work ON SUNDAYS MMMM

your full of b/s lay of the coolaid

Actually, like I said, you should read the 613 Mitzvoht sometime. Many of those rules are concerning cleanliness, what you should eat, and how to live.

If you ate pork back in Biblical times, you ran into the possibility of trichinosis.

If you don't clean yourself regularly, you can catch disease.

If you don't eat healthy food, you'll get sick.

Yeah, even today, if we don't follow certain rules (which come from the Mitzvoht), we could end up getting sick and dying.

And no.........there aren't 613 rules for each individual to follow, there are 613 rules that cover EVERYONE. Some are for women only, some are for men only, some are strictly for the priests.

By the way, according to Judaic theology, Shabbat (the Sabbath) begins at sunset Friday and ends sunset Saturday, so NFL football watching isn't affected.

Besides, I'm a Taoist who studies Judaic theology, which actually would make me a B'nei Noach.