DOes christianity promote individualism?

[Jurginvoncelle]

Seems to me that Christianity has two aspects.

First there's the whole love thy neighbor as thyself aspect of it.

That seems to SCREAM to us that we put aside our egocentric childishness.

Then, if you happen to be of the PROT persuasion, at least, there's the whole sissue of each of us finding salvation though our own relationship to GOD.

That seems to run counter to to social nature that Love thy neighbor seems to be telling us.

So all in all, I'd say this question doesn't have an answer, really.

So, if I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying that one cannot love their neighbor and find salvation through their own relationship with God at the same time? Why is that?

I do believe the Christianity (as a faith) is a personal. That would be individualism.
I also believe that the organized religion centers of our churches try with great fervor to tell this vast country of individuals to think as the “church” does. That would be socialized thinking. (Strange they fly the flag of conservatism…argue that later&#8230

The "Church" (as a most part of the religious right, see above) does not promote individualism at all. They will not tell you to read your own bible, and "lets have bible study together and descussion time", rather to sit and listen to a preachers idea of what the bible is trying to say, and to pay your 1/10th tithe that Jesus himself discredited. The preachers opinion is what comes from the podium, not your own personal definition based upon your individual faith to your God.

Case in point; Samson had a covenant with God, he did not cut his hair. For him to cut HIS hair was a sin, but for you. and me, it is not a sin. Covenants are personal, and so are sins, therefore we should have a personal savior. “Each person works about their own salvation thru trials and testing”

So for me to answer you question, I would say "No: not in the form of "organized religion".
But "Yes" as a faith, as a personal walk with God, and is a thinking persons religion.

My personal idea is that "organized religion" is very similar to “Art” defined in school, with a concrete curriculum.

 

[Smartt33]

I do believe the Christianity (as a faith) is a personal. That would be individualism..

Because of the fact that every individual must face the Savior one way or another might be looked upon as individual relationship, but not "individualism." Rather, John 3:16 makes salvation universally available for each individual. Our relationship with God is both personal and a Kingdom relationship. Jesus talked about the Kingdom and the church as "The body ." So, the Body becomes one, but with many. Not individualism at all.

I also believe that the organized religion centers of our churches try with great fervor to tell this vast country of individuals to think as the “church” does. That would be socialized thinking. (Strange they fly the flag of conservatism…argue that later…).

I have been in many churches, and am a Baptist. My experience has been quite different from that. I have been exposed to the Bible, and given the mandate, as it is given in the Scriptures, to study and learn God's Word. God's Word is alive and is made alive as we apply it to our lives. I have never been in any churches that preach that we cannot or should not live in any way unlike the rest of the church. With so many churches and denominations, that would be impossible. I have seen that kind of teaching in the Normon and JW churches. Some say the Catholic church was and some still are that way. That is NOT mainstream Christianity.

The "Church" (as a most part of the religious right, see above) does not promote individualism at all. They will not tell you to read your own bible, and "lets have bible study together and descussion time", rather to sit and listen to a preachers idea of what the bible is trying to say, and to pay your 1/10th tithe that Jesus himself discredited. The preachers opinion is what comes from the podium, not your own personal definition based upon your individual faith to your God.

I teach in the Baptist church, and I have never said that I am right and everyone must understand it the way I do.That is what the Holy Spirit says. It is the Holy Spirit who is the teacher, and He is right all the time. Preachers are always telling their congregations to read their Bibles, and "Study" them. I don't know where you are getting your information from.

Case in point; Samson had a covenant with God, he did not cut his hair. For him to cut HIS hair was a sin, but for you. and me, it is not a sin. Covenants are personal, and so are sins, therefore we should have a personal savior. “Each person works about their own salvation thru trials and testing”

I am a called and gifted teacher. I have a calling and a gift for teaching the Bible to believers. For me to not do that would be a sin. For someone else not to teach is not a sin. I agree with this concept. However, that thought does not work with sins of anything other than sins of omition and disobedience. Sins of immoral behavior are not appropriate for some and inappropriate for others. The way we work out the salvatio we have been given is very personal, and I can not tell others how to do that. However, I can say that telling a adultery is a sin, and it will be right all the time for everyone. Sin, as defined by God is sin.

So for me to answer you question, I would say "No: not in the form of "organized religion".
But "Yes" as a faith, as a personal walk with God, and is a thinking persons religion.

My personal idea is that "organized religion" is very similar to “Art” defined in school, with a concrete curriculum.

 

[Jurginvoncelle]

I do believe the Christianity (as a faith) is a personal. That would be individualism..

Because of the fact that every individual must face the Savior one way or another might be looked upon as individual relationship, but not "individualism." Rather, John 3:16 makes salvation universally available for each individual. Our relationship with God is both personal and a Kingdom relationship. Jesus talked about the Kingdom and the church as "The body ". So, the Body becomes one, but with many. Not individualism at all.

Jesus said "come out and be separate" that is to the individual. He could have very easily said “come be part of my church, my body”. He also noted "is the eye more than the ear?" Meaning the individual "gifts".

I also believe that the organized religion centers of our churches try with great fervor to tell this vast country of individuals to think as the “church” does. That would be socialized thinking. (Strange they fly the flag of conservatism…argue that later…).

I have been in many churches, and am a Baptist. My experience has been quite different from that. I have been exposed to the Bible, and given the mandate, as it is given in the Scriptures, to study and learn God's Word. God's Word is alive and is made alive as we apply it to our lives. I have never been in any churches that preach that we cannot or should not live in any way unlike the rest of the church. With so many churches and denominations, that would be impossible. I have seen that kind of teaching in the Normon and JW churches. Some say the Catholic church was and some still are that way. That is NOT mainstream Christianity.

I was raised Baptist. Again. Individual, or we would not have so many denominations of Christians. God meets us where we are and what is right for one may not be right for all.

Since God is the same yesterday today and forever, if any distance exists between you and your God, guess who moved? That would not be the ideology of said “Church” rather the individual.

I teach in the Baptist church, and I have never said that I am right and everyone must understand it the way I do.That is what the Holy Spirit says. It is the Holy Spirit who is the teacher, and He is right all the time. Preachers are always telling their congregations to read their Bibles, and "Study" them. I don't know where you are getting your information from.

No, you are correct. No churches pastor would dare say as much as "Do not read the bible for yourself" That would be hypocrisy the very word itself.
You must admit, the vast majority neither read the bible for themselves, nor will they ever.
They go to church. Sheep are lazy, and stupid. It was no compliment that Christ gave us in analogy.
You would however, by your own argument, state that organized Christianity is at the very least socialism, rather than a personal walk.

Case in point; Samson had a covenant with God, he did not cut his hair. For him to cut HIS hair was a sin, but for you. and me, it is not a sin. Covenants are personal, and so are sins, therefore we should have a personal savior. “Each person works about their own salvation thru trials and testing”

I am a called and gifted teacher. I have a calling and a gift for teaching the Bible to believers. For me to not do that would be a sin. For someone else not to teach is not a sin. I agree with this concept. However, that thought does not work with sins of anything other than sins of omition and disobedience. Sins of immoral behavior are not appropriate for some and inappropriate for others. The way we work out the salvatio we have been given is very personal, and I can not tell others how to do that. However, I can say that telling a adultery is a sin, and it will be right all the time for everyone. Sin, as defined by God is sin.

Sin is ANYTHING that which separates us from the love of God. The choice and freedom that God gave us to choose makes us individuals.
Also Jesus issued condemnation of praying loudly in the streets so as to be seen by others. We are charged rather to use a "prayer closet". This would mean God wants the individual prayer, not misplaced pride in oneself. Individual issues for a person, not a church. In a Church we all pray together.

So for me to answer you question, I would say "No: not in the form of "organized religion".
But "Yes" as a faith, as a personal walk with God, and is a thinking persons religion.

My personal idea is that "organized religion" is very similar to “Art” defined in school, with a concrete curriculum.

 

[Smartt33]

I do believe the Christianity (as a faith) is a personal. That would be individualism..

Because of the fact that every individual must face the Savior one way or another might be looked upon as individual relationship, but not "individualism." Rather, John 3:16 makes salvation universally available for each individual. Our relationship with God is both personal and a Kingdom relationship. Jesus talked about the Kingdom and the church as "The body ". So, the Body becomes one, but with many. Not individualism at all.

Jesus said "come out and be separate" that is to the individual. He could have very easily said “come be part of my church, my body”. He also noted "is the eye more than the ear?" Meaning the individual "gifts".






I was raised Baptist. Again. Individual, or we would not have so many denominations of Christians. God meets us where we are and what is right for one may not be right for all.

Since God is the same yesterday today and forever, if any distance exists between you and your God, guess who moved? That would not be the ideology of said “Church” rather the individual.



No, you are correct. No churches pastor would dare say as much as "Do not read the bible for yourself" That would be hypocrisy the very word itself.
You must admit, the vast majority neither read the bible for themselves, nor will they ever.
They go to church. Sheep are lazy, and stupid. It was no compliment that Christ gave us in analogy.
You would however, by your own argument, state that organized Christianity is at the very least socialism, rather than a personal walk.

I am a called and gifted teacher. I have a calling and a gift for teaching the Bible to believers. For me to not do that would be a sin. For someone else not to teach is not a sin. I agree with this concept. However, that thought does not work with sins of anything other than sins of omition and disobedience. Sins of immoral behavior are not appropriate for some and inappropriate for others. The way we work out the salvatio we have been given is very personal, and I can not tell others how to do that. However, I can say that telling a adultery is a sin, and it will be right all the time for everyone. Sin, as defined by God is sin.

Sin is ANYTHING that which separates us from the love of God. The choice and freedom that God gave us to choose makes us individuals.
Also Jesus issued condemnation of praying loudly in the streets so as to be seen by others. We are charged rather to use a "prayer closet". This would mean God wants the individual prayer, not misplaced pride in oneself. Individual issues for a person, not a church. In a Church we all pray together.

So for me to answer you question, I would say "No: not in the form of "organized religion".
But "Yes" as a faith, as a personal walk with God, and is a thinking persons religion.

My personal idea is that "organized religion" is very similar to “Art” defined in school, with a concrete curriculum.

I think it is a matter of understanding what the other person is saying. We are individuals, God made us individually. It was not an assymbly line process. No one can argue that we are all individuals. However, God's kingdom is not about individuals as much as it is about the Kingdom, and about Him. As a body, the Bidy of Christ, we are to maintain a genuine separation from the body that is not of Christ. That does not mean not to associate with them. It means not to be like them. As members of the body, we are absolutely gifted individually, called individually, and even blessed individually. However, we are also called as a "Church," gifted corporately with the Holy Spirit, and blessed as a body.

Where you were talking about the eye and the ear, it was not meant that we are individuals, but certainly have specific places or gifts. It also means that we are a body, all one and all working together as one.

You implied that the church was dictating doctrine and what the Bible means, to the church members. While we are taught, we are not forbidden to search the scriptures for ourselves. It is true that many don't, even most. That is not because God made us individuals, it is because of a lack of true committment to God's calling on our lives.

I do not agree that the church is about socialism. I believe our Christianity is all about God, and is driven by our personal and corporate walk with Him. We must walk with Him individually, and we must also have that part of the walk that includes other, even all believers.

Nothing seperates a believer from the love of God ad you mentioned in the following, " Sin is ANYTHING that which separates us from the love of God." Sin seperates us from the fellowship we could have with God. Romans 8 38-39 says "we cannot be seperated from the Love of God."

Some organized religion might fall into the category of "Art." However, the thing that makes believers real and true is their personal relationhip with God, not the teaching of the church. As we meet as a body, we unite in that relationship.

 

[AllieBaba]

The apostles/early Christians lived as a roaming band of socialists, with everything being owned communally. Jesus said that to be perfect, you were to sell everything you owned, carry no money, and basically reject material wealth, perusing instead a life like Jesus', placing others before the self.

On the other hand, we are told to adhere to our beliefs even if we are tortured or killed because of them. Martyrdom is the ultimate individual statement.

 

[Jurginvoncelle]

The apostles/early Christians lived as a roaming band of socialists, with everything being owned communally. Jesus said that to be perfect, you were to sell everything you owned, carry no money, and basically reject material wealth, perusing instead a life like Jesus', placing others before the self.

"On the other hand, we are told to adhere to our beliefs even if we are tortured or killed because of them. Martyrdom is the ultimate individual statement

And with issues of people dying every year, more per year than our foreign war, because of lack of health care. Christ healed the sick, and promoted selflessness. Stark contrast to the attitude we see of modern debate "No not with my taxes you won't" I don't feel obligated to pay for someone else"

Me me me, mine mine mine! Like a 4 year old who will not share.
A very secular standpoint for self-assumed "Christian Nation", as the same people would tout as self pride. How hypocritical.

You are free to have an opinion, you are free to be greedy, but how can a self-proclaimed Christian mandate on principals, you not give to those of whom require charity, as the bible says we are to give. Even the taxes that belong to Caesar.

 

[Newby]

The apostles/early Christians lived as a roaming band of socialists, with everything being owned communally. Jesus said that to be perfect, you were to sell everything you owned, carry no money, and basically reject material wealth, perusing instead a life like Jesus', placing others before the self.

"On the other hand, we are told to adhere to our beliefs even if we are tortured or killed because of them. Martyrdom is the ultimate individual statement

And with issues of people dying every year, more per year than our foreign war, because of lack of health care. Christ healed the sick, and promoted selflessness. Stark contrast to the attitude we see of modern debate "No not with my taxes you won't" I don't feel obligated to pay for someone else"

Me me me, mine mine mine! Like a 4 year old who will not share.
A very secular standpoint for self-assumed "Christian Nation", as the same people would tout as self pride. How hypocritical.

You are free to have an opinion, you are free to be greedy, but how can a self-proclaimed Christian mandate on principals, you not give to those of whom require charity, as the bible says we are to give. Even the taxes that belong to Caesar.

You have a lot to learn. How much should the state be able to take away from you? All of it, and then feed you, clothe you, house you? It has nothing to do with greed at all, and someone like you will just never be able to understand that. You are too blinded by what you've been fed.

And please tell me who is dying because of lack of health care in this country?

 

[Care4all]

I believe people are dying due to the lack of health care....people with health insurance who fail to use it regularly for check ups, and people without it, who do not go in for regular check ups....mainly due to not "catching" their disease or cancer, in an early enough stage to "beat it" with all of our modern medicine.

 

[emilynghiem]

I wonder if christianity promotes individualism because it basically says that your spiritual existence is wrapped up with one man which means that society around you doesn't matter that much to you.

This seems to be opposite from what the hegallians believed that your spirit existed within the world which is what they termed as pantheism. This made you dependent on others for you social and spiritual existence while christianity didn't require that. It separated you from the world which made you independent of everything around it.

I would say the bias toward individualism is coming from our American culture first, especially our heritage from European traditions.
This affects how we interpret/apply Christianity as well as Buddhism.

The more interconnected approaches to incorporating Christian values into global society can be found in the principles of Unitarian Universalists, as well as the approach presented by Carlton Pearson in the Gospel of Inclusion that even cites scientific examples of universality of laws to all people and all creation. I read some books by Christian authors on the universality of prayer, including Dale Matthews and Larry Dossey who also cites scientific research, that does not need to be taught as negating or denying Christian belief.

The emphasis on individual responsibility for one's choices is valued in both Christianity and Buddhism, and does not need to seen as negating collective social responsibility but fulfilling it by doing one's part in order to contribute to the whole, not to deny the whole.

Again the cultural and commercial values around us that emphasize success by individual appearance and achievement seem to create this bias more than any other factor by itself.

 

[Newby]

I believe people are dying due to the lack of health care....people with health insurance who fail to use it regularly for check ups, and people without it, who do not go in for regular check ups....mainly due to not "catching" their disease or cancer, in an early enough stage to "beat it" with all of our modern medicine.

Then it's their responsibility that's lacking, not the populace's as a whole. It's not up to us as a whole to hold people's hands and make sure they get to the doctor's office. And that's hardly the connotation that's meant when someone says 'people are dying every day due to lack of health insurance'. Why don't we try being honest and realistic about the topic instead of trying to use false claims and emotions to get something done?

 

[emilynghiem]

I actually did not think of this and it was not thought of by other christians. It was thought of by early Hegals who debated if christianity was a positive force for society. They thought it was to individualistic because your 'spirit' was a reflection of a single deity of either Jesus or God. They believed in pantheism where your spirit was a part of the greater community of man or a part of the collective.

Not a single christian ever thought of this.

Maybe you didn't ask the Christians who believe in the Holy Spirit as the third part of the inseparable trinity along with Jesus and God.

Only citing or crediting the "individuals" you know or hear about, and using THAT as a "representative of the group" is YOU imposing your own Individual Perception on Christianity, but is not the real and full meaning. So that bias is coming from outside, from the perceiver.

The Holy Spirit makes all humanity one with God's truth, as one body made whole again.
So if you leave that part out of Christianity, you skew the message if not lose it altogether.

 

[emilynghiem]

I wonder if christianity promotes individualism because it basically says that your spiritual existence is wrapped up with one man which means that society around you doesn't matter that much to you.

This seems to be opposite from what the hegallians believed that your spirit existed within the world which is what they termed as pantheism. This made you dependent on others for you social and spiritual existence while christianity didn't require that. It separated you from the world which made you independent of everything around it.

We each have our own Talents...those are encouraged in the Bible....

We each have Free will....according to the Bible....

This is promotion of individualism...

Yet taking care of the least among you is also in the Bible...

I agree, and believe we could take care of more neighbors by practicing forgiveness and spiritual healing, which has cut the costs of medical treatment and saved lives where medicine alone has failed. This doesn't replace medicine and therapy, but works along with it to diagnose and cure spiritual sickness first, which then affects the mind and body.

So there are better solutions that the government cannot provide yet, not until spiritual healing is proven medically and can be made more accessible to the public. Right now it is only known and practiced on a faith-based level.

For cases of schizophrenia successfully treated by spiritual methods of deliverance prayer,
there are books by Scott Peck (Glimpses of the Devil) and Francis MacNutt (Healing).
Christian Healing Ministries

Someone asked me if this healing prayer really works, and can get rid of demonic voices causing criminal addictions and abuse, then why isn't it proven and widely known?

My answer was that the problem is true Spiritual Healing is FREE.

Since the government cannot legislate it, and businesses cannot exploit it for profit,
then they go after other approaches that make money. Spiritual healing would totally change the dynamics of health care and mental health, and prisons and criminal justice.

So church and state would have to work together to solve these problems. Since people want to separate church from state, that is why more problems aren't being solved.

 

[Jurginvoncelle]

My answer was that the problem is true Spiritual Healing is FREE.

Since the government cannot legislate it, and businesses cannot exploit it for profit,
then they go after other approaches that make money. Spiritual healing would totally change the dynamics of health care and mental health, and prisons and criminal justice.

So church and state would have to work together to solve these problems. Since people want to separate church from state, that is why more problems aren't being solved.

A few questions and forgive my presumptions, perhaps you would explain your views?

So there is no money to be made from faith healing, since it is free of charge.
(Preachers don’t ask and ask for money?)

Money being the driving force of the free market, and "medical industry" to co-depend upon each other.

So buy your argument you believe positively the removal of profit, thru faith healing churches and saving money by the people using something that cost nothing. Correct?

Could this be counterproductive to the free market?

 

[blu]

no it does not. its sheep mentality and full submission to an omscient being by people too scared to face death

 

[Care4all]

what a croc of baby do, blu....

only the immature can be so narrow minded.