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I have realized that the liberals are going to do what ever it takes to taint the great victory in Iraq
Does anyone realize that war is over and it looks like we will be 100% gone in 6 months?
That there is a republic in place?
and that women vote and hold office?
I had no idea that the liberal media and there cock suckers would go to the level they have to make the troops look bad and make the success they fought hard for look like, well ask Drock and that crew
I dont even know how to explain it
DOES ANYBODY CARE WE WON?
It's probably just that you define success a little more broadly than the rest of us.
If you spent a trillion dollars to hire a cop to stand on every corner of The Bronx 24/7, and crime dropped in The Bronx, would you declare victory in the war on crime?
Condi Rice even said there was no yellowcake.
Fail.
No, speaking as a US Navy sailor who was serving on active duty at the time of 9/11 and the beginning of the war, I have always been against our incursion into Iraq.
Jr. was just pissed that someone threatened his daddy.
Condi was protecting classified information
The yellow cake was discovered by US troops after the 2003 US invasion of Iraq at the Tuwaitha Nuclear Research Facility south of Baghdad, and was placed under the control of the International Atomic Energy Agency."
Evidence of WMDs presence in Iraq. - a knol by Luis T. Puig
Iraq is no longer a state sponsor of terror using a bribery scheme to subvert the UN Security Council.
Iran and Syria know our military is not the paper tiger scared by some saber rattling.
France, Germany, Russia and China know that they can't use the UN to dictate our defense.
so Iraq was a defensive action?
If by defense you mean a good offense, yes.
so Iraq was a defensive action?
If by defense you mean a good offense, yes.
I do not believe in preemptive war becuase someone might do something to you. It goes against the innocent till proven guilty principle in the USA.
Condi Rice even said there was no yellowcake.
Fail.
No, speaking as a US Navy sailor who was serving on active duty at the time of 9/11 and the beginning of the war, I have always been against our incursion into Iraq.
Jr. was just pissed that someone threatened his daddy.
Condi was protecting classified information
The yellow cake was discovered by US troops after the 2003 US invasion of Iraq at the Tuwaitha Nuclear Research Facility south of Baghdad, and was placed under the control of the International Atomic Energy Agency."
Evidence of WMDs presence in Iraq. - a knol by Luis T. Puig
You do realize that the found Yellow Cake had been stored since the pre-Gulf War days, the stuff was over 12 years old and wasn't concentrated enough to make a nuclear bomb. It could however, been used for a dirty bomb.
Condi Rice even said there was no yellowcake.
Fail.
No, speaking as a US Navy sailor who was serving on active duty at the time of 9/11 and the beginning of the war, I have always been against our incursion into Iraq.
Jr. was just pissed that someone threatened his daddy.
U.S. removes 'yellowcake' from Iraq - World news - Mideast/N. Africa - Conflict in Iraq - msnbc.com
USATODAY.com - U.N.: Iraq had no WMD after 1994But U.N. reports submitted to the Security Council before the war by Hans Blix, former chief U.N. arms inspector, and Mohamed ElBaradei, head of the U.N.'s nuclear watchdog agency, have been largely validated by U.S. weapons teams. The common findings: Iraq's nuclear weapons program was dormant.
You can't win a war you should never have started. Every casualty you incur is a wasted life in a war you never should have started.
I have realized that the liberals are going to do what ever it takes to taint the great victory in Iraq
Does anyone realize that war is over and it looks like we will be 100% gone in 6 months?
That there is a republic in place?
and that women vote and hold office?
I had no idea that the liberal media and there cock suckers would go to the level they have to make the troops look bad and make the success they fought hard for look like, well ask Drock and that crew
I dont even know how to explain it
DOES ANYBODY CARE WE WON?
You can't win a war you should never have started. Every casualty you incur is a wasted life in a war you never should have started.
Bullshit. We went for the wrong reasons, but that doesnt mean that no good was done.
I listed 5 goods that came out of it. Not acknowledging them is just lying to yourself.
We did pretty much win it.
What did we really win?
You cannot figure that out?
what did go there to do?
1) weapons? gone
2) Saddam? gone
3) Dictatorship? gone
4) AL quid-ea in Iraq? broken
What did we really win?
You cannot figure that out?
what did go there to do?
1) weapons? gone
2) Saddam? gone
3) Dictatorship? gone
4) AL quid-ea in Iraq? broken
More enemies, less friends. More terrorists who want to do harm to America. Al Queda was not even in Iraq before we invaded. Yes, the weapons that were not there are gone. Before you say that we won or it was worth it, you have to wait and see what happens when we leave
I'm not sure we will know for some time what the war has done to the region. Secondly, dropping bombs on Arab holy land is a recruiting poster for future terrorists - so it's debatable if it was a net safety gain. Only time will tell if brute military force and high civilian death counts were, in this instance, a better strategy than a lasting regional solution, e.g., did we harm our interests by removing a major counterweight to Iran? I'm not sure anyone has a crystal ball on this one.
More importantly, the war was arguably a failure strictly on cost/reward basis - we spent a massive amount of money on an evil man who did not attack us... a man who was so weakened by 10 years of sanctions and military fly-overs that he did not pose much of a threat. On a more complicated vein, I think it is misleading to call Iraq a war in the conventional sense. Meaning: I don't think we went to war because of a physical threat, e.g., evidence of Hussein's link to Bin Laden and 9/11 has been seriously challenged. In reality, regime change in Iraq was a very important policy going back to the Clinton administration. When Bush came into office - prior to 9/11 - his terrorism advisor (hired decades ago by Reagan) asked him to focus on Al Qaeda, but he was rebuked. The Bush administration had decided that Iraq was their best doorway into the region long before they turned 15 guys with box cutters into a force the size of Germany in the 30s.
I'm wondering if you might consider some of the broader, more complicated reasons for the war - like oil currencies (-I'm not even talking about oil itself). Did you know that both Iraq and Iran were threatening to defect from the dollar to the Euro? Do you know what that decision would do to our economy? I don't maintain this is the single reason for the war - especially since there is no single reason - but I do worry that the Republican leadership has not provided their voters with anything even approaching the whole story. It seems like much of the population literally cannot depart from the evil doer narrative, which is far too simplistic.
Every nation claims to be saving the world from evil whenever they intervene anywhere. Any high school kid worth his salt realizes that the United States Government often gets in bed with dictators if those dictators are willing to protect US interests. Just look at our relation to the Shaw, or Reagan's relationship to Pinochet, Hussein, or the "Freedom Fighters" in Afghanistan, i.e., the mujahideen, which was the embryonic form of Al Qaeda. I guess what I'm saying is that it would be nice if you looked into the history of our military and political intervention in the region - it's much more complicated than fighting evil doers. And I think the Left is silly for thinking we should never use military force to protect our access and control of world energy supplies. American ascendency and power is deeply tied to oil (in the same way that prior superpowers or empires successfully exploited the most vital resources of their epoch). Like it or not, the American economy was built on suburban expansion- indeed, we built the largest network of roads in history, which roads lead to massive energy sucking shopping malls and large homes. Cheap oil was and is the lifeblood of the USA, the largest motoring culture that history has ever seen. Does anyone realize how much oil the Pentagon uses to project force around the globe? A rise in oil prices would (and has) destroyed us. (We get 80% of our energy from oil; China gets less than 50% - and Europe subscribed to a more condensed urbanism with a much higher reliance on trains). Which is to say: as world supplies diminish and demand increases, the US, more than any other nation, is faced with having to make bankrupting military choices that simply have not been explained to the American people - hence the simplicity of this thread's lead post. (Carter correctly predicted the consequences of our oil dependence, but Reagan was able to convince America that he was a crazy Lefty trying to construct an energy bureaucracy over American freedom)
Regardless JRK, be very careful with rightwing talk radio or mass market TV stations - they, as a rule, never talk about geopolitics, e.g., Sean Hannity categorically will not discuss our former relationship with say the Shaw, that is, he leaves his audience functionally illiterate on very important matters about how and why we intervene abroad. Like Bush, he draws on simplistic Biblical narratives of good versus evil - the redeemer nation versus the evil dictator.
I wonder if you might consider some broader issues that affected our decision to intervene in the region. Some of those reasons even make sense. There is a complicated macroeconomic picture that you might do well to study:
http://home.aubg.bg/faculty/kpetrov/Other/Textbook Downloads/Clark - Petrodollar Warfare.pdf
(Hey JRK: if you want to try a neat trick, you might ask if the country was better off before or after the Iraq War. Washington's jiggery pokery with the war expense is the worst kept secret in history. Both parties have covered up the cost. I'm just saying you may some day learn that the real cost is larger than anyone ever imagined. We might have reached a point where the US can no longer effectively project force to meet it's objectives and influence world affairs. This tends to happen to Empires in their final days. Eventually they lose the financial and tactical ability to control the world. . . and a new nation takes their place, like China, who didn't fall into the same oil trap and has built their power from a different house of cards)
I'm not sure we will know for some time what the war has done to the region. Secondly, dropping bombs on Arab holy land is a recruiting poster for future terrorists - so it's debatable if it was a net safety gain. Only time will tell if brute military force and high civilian death counts were, in this instance, a better strategy than a lasting regional solution, e.g., did we harm our interests by removing a major counterweight to Iran? I'm not sure anyone has a crystal ball on this one.
More importantly, the war was arguably a failure strictly on cost/reward basis - we spent a massive amount of money on an evil man who did not attack us... a man who was so weakened by 10 years of sanctions and military fly-overs that he did not pose much of a threat. On a more complicated vein, I think it is misleading to call Iraq a war in the conventional sense. Meaning: I don't think we went to war because of a physical threat, e.g., evidence of Hussein's link to Bin Laden and 9/11 has been seriously challenged. In reality, regime change in Iraq was a very important policy going back to the Clinton administration. When Bush came into office - prior to 9/11 - his terrorism advisor (hired decades ago by Reagan) asked him to focus on Al Qaeda, but he was rebuked. The Bush administration had decided that Iraq was their best doorway into the region long before they turned 15 guys with box cutters into a force the size of Germany in the 30s.
I'm wondering if you might consider some of the broader, more complicated reasons for the war - like oil currencies (-I'm not even talking about oil itself). Did you know that both Iraq and Iran were threatening to defect from the dollar to the Euro? Do you know what that decision would do to our economy? I don't maintain this is the single reason for the war - especially since there is no single reason - but I do worry that the Republican leadership has not provided their voters with anything even approaching the whole story. It seems like much of the population literally cannot depart from the evil doer narrative, which is far too simplistic.
Every nation claims to be saving the world from evil whenever they intervene anywhere. Any high school kid worth his salt realizes that the United States Government often gets in bed with dictators if those dictators are willing to protect US interests. Just look at our relation to the Shaw, or Reagan's relationship to Pinochet, Hussein, or the "Freedom Fighters" in Afghanistan, i.e., the mujahideen, which was the embryonic form of Al Qaeda. I guess what I'm saying is that it would be nice if you looked into the history of our military and political intervention in the region - it's much more complicated than fighting evil doers. And I think the Left is silly for thinking we should never use military force to protect our access and control of world energy supplies. American ascendency and power is deeply tied to oil (in the same way that prior superpowers or empires successfully exploited the most vital resources of their epoch). Like it or not, the American economy was built on suburban expansion- indeed, we built the largest network of roads in history, which roads lead to massive energy sucking shopping malls and large homes. Cheap oil was and is the lifeblood of the USA, the largest motoring culture that history has ever seen. Does anyone realize how much oil the Pentagon uses to project force around the globe? A rise in oil prices would (and has) destroyed us. (We get 80% of our energy from oil; China gets less than 50% - and Europe subscribed to a more condensed urbanism with a much higher reliance on trains). Which is to say: as world supplies diminish and demand increases, the US, more than any other nation, is faced with having to make bankrupting military choices that simply have not been explained to the American people - hence the simplicity of this thread's lead post. (Carter correctly predicted the consequences of our oil dependence, but Reagan was able to convince America that he was a crazy Lefty trying to construct an energy bureaucracy over American freedom)
Regardless JRK, be very careful with rightwing talk radio or mass market TV stations - they, as a rule, never talk about geopolitics, e.g., Sean Hannity categorically will not discuss our former relationship with say the Shaw, that is, he leaves his audience functionally illiterate on very important matters about how and why we intervene abroad. Like Bush, he draws on simplistic Biblical narratives of good versus evil - the redeemer nation versus the evil dictator.
I wonder if you might consider some broader issues that affected our decision to intervene in the region. Some of those reasons even make sense. There is a complicated macroeconomic picture that you might do well to study:
http://home.aubg.bg/faculty/kpetrov/Other/Textbook Downloads/Clark - Petrodollar Warfare.pdf
(Hey JRK: if you want to try a neat trick, you might ask if the country was better off before or after the Iraq War. Washington's jiggery pokery with the war expense is the worst kept secret in history. Both parties have covered up the cost. I'm just saying you may some day learn that the real cost is larger than anyone ever imagined. We might have reached a point where the US can no longer effectively project force to meet it's objectives and influence world affairs. This tends to happen to Empires in their final days. Eventually they lose the financial and tactical ability to control the world. . . and a new nation takes their place, like China, who didn't fall into the same oil trap and has built their power from a different house of cards)
are we better off?
Was it worth 1 trillion in tax payers wealth?
Most of the cost and most of the reward for the effort eas not fighting Iraqis
It was fighting Al Queida
al-Qaeda in Iraq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I have realized that the liberals are going to do what ever it takes to taint the great victory in Iraq
Does anyone realize that war is over and it looks like we will be 100% gone in 6 months?
That there is a republic in place?
and that women vote and hold office?
I had no idea that the liberal media and there cock suckers would go to the level they have to make the troops look bad and make the success they fought hard for look like, well ask Drock and that crew
I dont even know how to explain it
DOES ANYBODY CARE WE WON?
I have realized that the liberals are going to do what ever it takes to taint the great victory in Iraq
Does anyone realize that war is over and it looks like we will be 100% gone in 6 months?
That there is a republic in place?
and that women vote and hold office?
I had no idea that the liberal media and there cock suckers would go to the level they have to make the troops look bad and make the success they fought hard for look like, well ask Drock and that crew
I dont even know how to explain it
DOES ANYBODY CARE WE WON?
