Does anybody even know what info Congress is trying to subpoena?

[CaféAuLait]

Obama’s Claim of Executive Privilege: It’s Frivolous | Power Line

...the House committee has narrowed its subpoena to an extraordinary degree. The public may not be aware that what we are talking about here is not some vast universe of documents relating to Fast and Furious, but rather, as Holder acknowledges, a tiny subset: “The Committee has made clear that its contempt resolution will be limited to internal Department ‘documents from after February 4, 2011, related to the Department’s response to Congress.’” February 4 was the date of DOJ’s letter which falsely represented to Congress that Fast and Furious did not involve deliberately allowing guns to make their way across the border to the cartels. DOJ withdrew that letter on December 2, 2011, ten months later. So Issa is trying to obtain only DOJ communications relating to the false letter, and the process by which DOJ concluded that the letter was indefensible, and decided to retract it. This represents an extraordinary concession on Issa’s part. I cannot imagine that, in Issa’s position, I would have let the administration off so easily....

In other words, they are trying to figure out why they were BLATANTLY LIED TO by the Obama administration.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Waiting to be enthralled.

 

[salem.hills]

Well? You all seem to have alot of hooting and hollering to do about this whole Fast and Furious/Executive Privilege ordeal. Any of you know what's actually going on?

Why are you 'hootin and hollerin' on something you don't know anything about?

Yeah I do know what's been going on its obvious that the administration was running guns to get crimes committed by these guns they let Mexican cartel buy and walk over the border. Then they get press to parakeet how bad gun crime is and they call for closing gun shops pass gun control etc etc....What they did was get caught because they were lying to the ATF . Those guys figured out after letting numerous killers go that this was criminal treason type stuff.

 

[Google]

Well? You all seem to have alot of hooting and hollering to do about this whole Fast and Furious/Executive Privilege ordeal. Any of you know what's actually going on?

This is becoming quite tedious. The entire point of the investigation is to determine who authorized Operation Fast and Furious and hold them accountable, and thus far the documents the Justice Dept has provided has not answered those questions.

Once again, the Justice Dept indicted and prosecuted Bush era ATF agents that organized and supervised Operation Wide Receiver while simultaneously conducting Operation Fast and Furious.

Holder knew about, and lied about knowing, the specifics of Operation Fast and Furious.

To this day the only people to be punished regarding Fast and Furious is the whistleblowers, which is in direct violation of federal laws.

People have died, thousands of assault weapons were provided to some of the most vicious and murderous thugs on the face of the planet who used those weapons to murder Mexicans and Americans alike. Someone is going to be held responsible.

Now invoking Executive Privilege to protect these documents puts yet another Holder statement into question. Holder specifically stated, under oath, that President Obama was neither briefed nor approved Operation Fast and Furious.

If you can look at all of the specifics of this operation and investigation and honestly say that you both A) you don't believe anyone needs to be held accountable and B) there is not a active cover up--then you are quite simply delusional and willfully ignorant.

 

[Inthemiddle]

It doesn't apply because the Executive Privilege (EP) does not extend to the Cabinet. It ONLY applies to the Executive, the Executive's advisers and aids, for the purpose of doing the executives duties.

*rolls eyes* Go back to grade school. The cabinet is part of the executive branch.

 

[Dick Tuck]

Well? You all seem to have alot of hooting and hollering to do about this whole Fast and Furious/Executive Privilege ordeal. Any of you know what's actually going on?

Internal discussion documents about what should be done about the shit storm caused by Fast and Furious, i.e. brain fart discussions that lead to a conclusion, where adviser toss out ideas for consideration. IOWs, nothing of any real significance. We already know that Holder ordered an IG investigation shortly hearing about the program.

 

[Google]

It doesn't apply because the Executive Privilege (EP) does not extend to the Cabinet. It ONLY applies to the Executive, the Executive's advisers and aids, for the purpose of doing the executives duties.

*rolls eyes* Go back to grade school. The cabinet is part of the executive branch.

Executive privilege cannot be invoked to cover up illegal activities. In this case, Operation Fast and Furious specifically broke the law and allowed felons and non-US citizens to purchase an estimated 4,000 assault weapons.

This is not going to hold up in court because an active Congressional investigation has not determined who sanctioned this criminal operation, and those documents are crucial in that goal.

It is disgusting how those on the left have ignored and ridiculed this investigation.

 

[Inthemiddle]

Once again, the Justice Dept indicted and prosecuted Bush era ATF agents that organized and supervised Operation Wide Receiver while simultaneously conducting Operation Fast and Furious.

And your link is riiiiigggghhht here: ___________________

What, no link?

To this day the only people to be punished regarding Fast and Furious is the whistleblowers, which is in direct violation of federal laws.

And your link is riiiiigggghhht here: ___________________

People have died, thousands of assault weapons were provided to some of the most vicious and murderous thugs on the face of the planet who used those weapons to murder Mexicans and Americans alike. Someone is going to be held responsible.

It was certainly a botched plan. But you seem more interested in revenge than you are the law. Stop being so reactionary.

Now invoking Executive Privilege to protect these documents puts yet another Holder statement into question. Holder specifically stated, under oath, that President Obama was neither briefed nor approved Operation Fast and Furious.

HEY LOOK, RIGHT THERE IS EXACTLY THE REASON I CREATED THIS THREAD. BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE YOU KEEP SAYING STUPID SHIT LIKE THIS, WHICH SHOWS THAT YOU CLEARLY DON'T KNOW THE FIRST THING ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON. INVOKING EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER OBAMA KNEW ABOUT THE FAF PROGRAM WHEN IT WAS IN OPERATION. THE SUBPOENA REQUESTS DOCUMENTS EXPLAINING WHY THE DOJ WITHDREW ITS LETTER TO CONGRESS AS INACCURATE. ASSUMING THAT OBAMA SO MUCH AS EMAILED HOLDER ASKING "YOU THINK WE SHOULD PULL THAT BACK?" THEN EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE APPLIES ENTIRELY.

If you can look at all of the specifics of this operation and investigation and honestly say that you both A) you don't believe anyone needs to be held accountable and B) there is not a active cover up--then you are quite simply delusional and willfully ignorant.

None of that has anything to do with the subpoena and EP issue, unless you're a fanatical reactionary.

 

[naturegirl]

From what I understand there are several correspondence letters back and forth from the Whistle Blowers to the ATF, those are the docs he doesn't want to release. Issa knows they exist because the Whistle Blowers told him they do. Issa has inside information, he knows exactly what he wants to see.

In that correspondence are several mentions about concerns of what's going on. They are out there and I'm sure they are pretty detrimental to the AG and perhaps even the President.

Dang ITM, all that screaming gave me a headache!! Ouch!!

 

[Charles_Main]

Well? You all seem to have alot of hooting and hollering to do about this whole Fast and Furious/Executive Privilege ordeal. Any of you know what's actually going on?

Been over and over this for Months now. Just because you have no Clue, does not mean we should have to Inform you.

 

[Inthemiddle]

Ok, fine... what privelege does he have given he claimed to have not been at all involved in this matter? You can't have it both ways.

That's exactly why I started this thread. Because arguments like that don't make any sense, unless people clearly are failing to understand what is going on.

The subpoena requests papers and communiques that might explain why the DOJ withdrew its letter to Congress from last year. THAT is what we're looking at with this whole thing right now. Whether Obama had anything to do with FaF while it was going on, has nothing to do with being able to invoke EP right now for this subpoena. What matters is whether Obama was, in any capacity whatsoever, involved in withdrawing the letter. Imagine for a moment.....

The letter is sent by the DOJ. Obama hears about it. Someone then brings it to Obama's attention that the letter might be inaccurate. Obama then sends an email to Holder that reads: "Hey dumbass, pull that shit back." A year later Congress issues a subpoena, wanting documents that would explain why the letter was pulled back. Executive Privilege applies.

 

[Google]

It was certainly a botched plan. But you seem more interested in revenge than you are the law. Stop being so reactionary.

Justice isn't revenge. Again, how dense do you have to be to just not understand that people were murdered with assault weapons that were illegally supplied to criminals sanctioned by the ATF under the leadership of the Justice Dept AND NO ONE HAS BEEN HELD RESPONSIBLE. THIS IS NOT ABOUT REVENGE YOU SIMPLISTIC CHILD.

 

[Inthemiddle]

Are you serious?

Concerns about those overlapping targets also led to delay in unsealing the indictments in Wide Receiver, as the U.S. Attorney‟s Office in Arizona had concerns that when the Wide Receiver indictments were unsealed it would tip off targets in Fast and Furious. http://www.grassley.senate.gov/judi...etween-Wide-Receiver-and-Fast-and-Furious.pdf

The Justice Dept did indict Bush era ATF agents for Wide Receiver, now either you are a God damned liar or you have just admitted you are woefully ignorant about the specifics of this case.

You nitwit. Those indictments weren't against ATF agents. They were against ATF targets from the Wide Receiver operation.

 

[candycorn]

Well? You all seem to have alot of hooting and hollering to do about this whole Fast and Furious/Executive Privilege ordeal. Any of you know what's actually going on?

It doesn't matter what the contents of the documents are from the political standpoint.

Nobody will accuse me of being a rabid Obama basher. It sends a terrible message to clame EP in any case. In one as comparatively mundane as this; it amplifies the chorous of boos and jeers even more.

On the surface--we still dont' have all of the facts--this appears to be hubris run amuck from the Obama administration. There may be perfectly valid reasons for such a move but the optics are terrible.

What he should have done was have a presser about 10 days ago where he said that he would have to claim EP and make his intentions clear. By doing so; you simply state what your case is and put it out there. Doing it after the fact makes it look as though you have something to hide. I doubt that is the case but, again, the optics are bad for the Obama administration on this one.

This is how you lose elections.

Or.......they have something to hide. Why else has Holder been stonewalling Congress all this time and then ask for EP when he knows it's getting deep?

They may have something to hide but you can't responsibly make such an assertion based on what facts are currently known.

 

[kwc57]

Ok, fine... what privelege does he have given he claimed to have not been at all involved in this matter? You can't have it both ways.

That's exactly why I started this thread. Because arguments like that don't make any sense, unless people clearly are failing to understand what is going on.

The subpoena requests papers and communiques that might explain why the DOJ withdrew its letter to Congress from last year. THAT is what we're looking at with this whole thing right now. Whether Obama had anything to do with FaF while it was going on, has nothing to do with being able to invoke EP right now for this subpoena. What matters is whether Obama was, in any capacity whatsoever, involved in withdrawing the letter. Imagine for a moment.....

The letter is sent by the DOJ. Obama hears about it. Someone then brings it to Obama's attention that the letter might be inaccurate. Obama then sends an email to Holder that reads: "Hey dumbass, pull that shit back." A year later Congress issues a subpoena, wanting documents that would explain why the letter was pulled back. Executive Privilege applies.

And your link is riiiiigggghhht here: ___________________

What, no link?