DOD survey finds ethical struggle in war

[maineman]

Agreed, but it cannot be arbitrarily dismissed either. I think that a good majority of the countries we may engage in the future will think much like the jihadists. Recent history shows that most nations (VietNam, Somalia, even Germany in WWII and now the jihadists) have ignored the GC.

no doubt... I would hate to get into a war in the future with some country that would have otherwise abided by the GC but felt freed from its constraints based upon our actions which may or may not net us any intelligence of such value as to make our mistreatment today worth it.

 

[Care4all]

NO... they are no better than murdering psychos. But lets get back to the argument...

Provide some compelling evidence that the US is routinely torturing prisoners. That it is US policy to ignore US law and torture prisoners anyway.

if you are talking to me... i don't think the usa is ''routinely'' torturing...

i think the usa has had some cases of torture such as at abu ghraib that seemed more routine than others... soldiers have been prosecuted for it.

i think some torture has taken place at gitmo from what i have read....cases are pending.

i also think some torture has taken place at other prison camps in afghanistan and iraq. soldiers have been prosecuted for it.

as far as the evidence, a google will give you answers.

but mostly i am concerned with the geneva convention on the whole being followed and the very important writ of habeas corpus.

care

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Provide evidence we are in violation of the Geneva Conventions. Provide evidence it is US policy to torture prisoners or to change their status on a whim or without cause.

The Convention is a treaty and was created before terrorism and stateless psychos were a real problem. We are free to provide a reasonable definition of what said treaty means. If others don't like it then they need to rewrite said treaty and have a new round of Countries signing on.

As for other countries ignoring it.... we are not ignoring the convention. I suggest you have a reading comprehension problem if you believe that. The people likely to ignore the conventions never signed them or supported them to begin with.

The Conventions are INTENDED to regulate behavior between States and those under the control of or beholding to real Governments. Stateless terrorists are not covered. Just as criminals that rob and pillage under the cover of a war are not covered by the Conventions. The sections discussed are there to cover the occurances in a war where people fight but are affiliated in someway to the States involved in the war. Again Stateless terrorists are NOT part of that equation.

We have a "war" on drugs, does that mean all drug pushers and gangs dealing in drugs are covered by the Geneva Convention? The Columbians, Mexicans and other foreigners?

The Government is careful to review and classify all persons under US control. Only treating those it determines are terrorists differently then persons covered by the Geneva Conventions. And they still get due process and are treated humanely being either released after determining they are no threat, turned over to a responsible Government if it can assure it will act responsibly on the charges or held for trial by the Military.

To the point.... the US is not violating the Geneva Conventions. The US is not torturing prisoners as a policy and in fact prosecutes any US personnel found to have done so.

I would be VERY happy to have any future enemy of ours follow our example.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Maineman IS or seems to be saying the US does in fact condone and practice torture and that the US in violating the Geneva Conventions. As for the claim that because some people broke the law and we prosecuted them we have a glaring problem, that is just not true. There will always be people that break the law.

There is zero compelling evidence , other than " gee we all know it where I live" that any institutionalized torture is being conducted and condoned by the US Government or military.

I love how thousand upon thousands of Muslims are terrorists and 100's of thousands more openly support them and we are reminded over and over that we should not judge all Muslims by the actions of these "few". Then the same person turns around and makes the claim that 8 soldiers that broke the law ( and were punished for it) and maybe a couple others here and there ( all being investigated and will be punished if caught) are inidicative of US Policy and the actions of several million US service members.

 

[Vintij]

Well, if you are christian you have to refuse torture right? So why is there a vote on this? Torture will not be allowed into law in this country. But that does not mean it will not be going on. It will always be going on behind closed doors. Sometimes, the public are not prepared to understand that certain people need to give out certain information to save certain lives. As long as we dont know about it publicly, then do whatever it takes to keep soldiers and civilians alive. This particular enemy we have in Iraq, has no remorse and no respect for us so dont feel to bad for them.

There have been plenty of enemys of america that fight with true honor, this enemy is not one of them.

Ofcourse, I will not publicly support torture....therefore my vote is with the latter.

 

[red states rule]

no doubt... I would hate to get into a war in the future with some country that would have otherwise abided by the GC but felt freed from its constraints based upon our actions which may or may not net us any intelligence of such value as to make our mistreatment today worth it.

I would hate to see you in a war as well

Unless you were on the other side

 

[red states rule]

if you are talking to me... i don't think the usa is ''routinely'' torturing...

i think the usa has had some cases of torture such as at abu ghraib that seemed more routine than others... soldiers have been prosecuted for it.

i think some torture has taken place at gitmo from what i have read....cases are pending.

i also think some torture has taken place at other prison camps in afghanistan and iraq. soldiers have been prosecuted for it.

as far as the evidence, a google will give you answers.

but mostly i am concerned with the geneva convention on the whole being followed and the very important writ of habeas corpus.

care

If the US tries to fight a PC war to appease the left - the US really has lost the war