Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations

[teapartysamurai]

Rush was right. He said (it seems like) over an year ago Fast and Furious was an operation to push for more gun control.

Documents obtained by CBS News show that the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) discussed using their covert operation "Fast and Furious" to argue for controversial new rules about gun sales.

ATF officials didn't intend to publicly disclose their own role in letting Mexican cartels obtain the weapons, but emails show they discussed using the sales, including sales encouraged by ATF, to justify a new gun regulation called "Demand Letter 3". That would require some U.S. gun shops to report the sale of multiple rifles or "long guns." Demand Letter 3 was so named because it would be the third ATF program demanding gun dealers report tracing information.

Read it all here: Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations - CBS News Investigates - CBS News

Another scandal that the liberals are trying to ignore and everyone else will sure remember when it comes time to vote in 2012.

We sure don't need four more years of this!

2012 is coming!

 

[BOBO]

Vote Ron Paul. BATF is one of the bureaucracies Ron has scheduled for the trash heap.

 

[The Rabbi]

If people don't go to jail over F&F it's a gross miscarriage of justice.
Just what did the president know and when did he know it?

F&F, Solyndra--it looks like this might be the most scandal plagued white house since Clinton.

 

[Ame®icano]

 

[tinydancer]

Well he was Janet's man after all. For those that don't remember she was the Attorney General who offed all those innocent people down in Texas.

You know the one that tormented, tortured and then killed so many innocent American civilians on American soil. Always remember what Reno did. Always remember it can happen.

Eric was Janet's man. Eric loves terrorists. Got pardons for Weather Underground home grown terrorist bitches.

 

[bitterlyclingin]

(Time to think about impeachment. Using the machinery of government to neuter, then overturn the Second Amendment, what else is the Communist Community Organizer In Chief up to? The following is a seasoned, highly skilled lawyers assessment of the recent e-mail dump from F&F. The re election of Barack Hussein Obama in 2012 will inevitably lead to a de facto president for life Barack Hussein Obama in 2016.)

"Was Fast and Furious All About Gun Control?

The Democrats have longed to impose gun control, or confiscation, for decades, but after a series of electoral defeats they finally backed off. The issue has largely receded from view, although gun owners have remained vigilant. For some time, Second Amendment advocates have suspected that the Obama administration’s gun walking program (“Fast and Furious&#8221 was intended to create a pretext for bringing back the gun control issue. [But with little evidence up till now]

I have reviewed hundreds of thousands of emails produced in discovery, and am acutely aware that one should not draw cosmic conclusions on the basis of a few ill-chosen words or random references. We certainly want to be fair to the Obama administration officials who were involved in Fast and Furious. But a fundamental question has never been answered: why in the world did the Obama administration not just allow AK-47s and other weapons to be shipped across the border to Mexican drug gangs, but encourage and even finance such transactions, over the objections of jittery gun shop owners and its own veteran agents? If the Obama administration wasn’t trying to set up an argument for more gun control, then what was it trying to do? That question has never been answered.

If the Obama administration did arrange for the shipment of arms to Mexican drug gangs, not for any legitimate public purpose but in order to advance a left-wing political agenda, and those guns were used to murder hundreds of Mexicans and at least one American border agent–which they were–then we are looking at a scandal that dwarfs any in modern American history"

Was Fast and Furious All About Gun Control? | Power Line

 

[bitterlyclingin]

(In addition, the Obama Adminstration may have been looking for a "Twofer", besides hogtieing America's Second Amendment rights they also may have been pursuing a more nefarious plan, setting the stage for massive social unrest in Mexico due to Civil War that forced waves of Mexican Immigration into the United States allowing Obama to plead for an open, unrestricted Southern Border for humanitarian reasons. Andy Stern and La Raza would love it)

"The Obama manipulations to support radical change are now accessories to murder.

What’s worse, they never even stopped to consider that the very practice they were undertaking provided evidence by itself that perhaps these precautions weren’t necessary. For instance, the gun shop owners were very concerned about the amount of guns that were being sold.

Now call me crazy, but if you’re trying to get a law passed that prevents the sale of multiple weapons to a single customer but you have to force dealers to do this, doesn’t that indicate that it might not be happening? Forcing people to do something against their better judgment so you can make the case that that very thing must be stopped is the kind of circular logic that only a radicalized Alinskyite could get behind.

In fact, the gun dealers, who these gun laws would be targeted at, showed a level of concern that seemed to be completely absent from the ATF:

The ATF politely responded that “We (ATF) are continually monitoring these suspects using a variety of investigative techniques which I cannot go into detail.”

How’d that work out? Not so great for Agent Brian Terry and countless victims in Mexico.

Next questions: Who knew about these plans? How early did they know them? How did political considerations make their way into a law enforcement operation?"

Fast & Furious – ATF Weapons Scheme Designed to Push Gun Control | RedState

 

[bitterlyclingin]

(Congressman John Conyers (D-MI), whose wife is in jail for nefarious activities, leads off the parade of water carriers for Eric Holder then a Virginia Democrat suggests this is all George Bush's fault, then James Sensenbrenner (R-WI) suggests (gasp) impeachment. Meanwhile the Obama Adminstration has sealed the records around Border Agent Brian Terry's murder. Can you imagine the howls of indignation, the screams and the cries, the ocean of spittle, foam, and froth that would be emanating from the NYT and the WaPo if the GWB Administration had done something similar? The LeftMedia's assaults on Congressmen Darrell Issa (R-CA)and James Sensenbrenner are scheduled to begin shortly)


"Once the opening comments were over, and the actual hearing began, Congressman Jim Sensenbrenner (R-WI) warned Holder that he was tired of not getting the truth on Fast and Furious. He complained that up till now, Holder’s answers had been “gees, somebody else did it.”

Sensenbrenner then basically said we can do this the easy way or the hard way. He told Holder that the A.G. could either give Congress the truth they were asking for or “impeachment” could be pursued.

That’s right: Sensenbrenner said “impeachment” to Holder’s face.

Issa went on to make the point that “Brian Terry is dead today because of this program,” yet Holder and Co. are hesitant to investigate Terry’s murder for fear of uncovering their own culpability to a greater degree. Said Issa: “This justice department is not looking for who killed Brian Terry” in order to preserve their own “plausible deniability.”"

» Holder Hearings Part One: Rep. Issa Strikes a Blow and Rep. Sensenbrenner Says Holder Could Face Impeachment - Big Government

 

[Wiseacre]

I think it was an idea to make gun control laws stricter, they just fucked it up.

 

[BluePhantom]

Boy this is bad. First this story comes from CBS News, not some whacked out extremist blog. Second look at the dates.

"On July 14, 2010 after ATF headquarters in Washington D.C. received an update on Fast and Furious, ATF Field Ops Assistant Director Mark Chait emailed Bill Newell, ATF's Phoenix Special Agent in Charge of Fast and Furious:

"Bill - can you see if these guns were all purchased from the same (licensed gun dealer) and at one time. We are looking at anecdotal cases to support a demand letter on long gun multiple sales. Thanks."

Brain Terry was killed on December 14, 2010.


This looks like smoking gun (no pun intended) proof that the ATF did this for political purposes instead of it simply being "a bad idea gone wrong." We'll see how this play out but this is VERY VERY bad.

 

[TheDecepticon]

Didn't this start under the Bush adminstration?

The Associated Press is reporting on a second Bush administration investigation that involved so-called "gun walking" of weapons to Mexico, the same tactic for which the Obama administration is facing scrutiny from the Justice Department and Congress.

E-mails pertaining to a 2007 Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives operation out of Phoenix show that agents allowed illegal shipments of guns across the border into Mexico in a failed effort to identify higher-ups in smuggling networks. Earlier this month, the bureau's new director, B. Todd Jones, acknowledged ATF agents launched a similar operation in a 2006 called "Operation Wide Receiver.''
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/10/2nd-probe-surfac es-of-bush-era-gun-trafficking-to-mexico-/1


So, any bets on that the same brilliant brain trust that launched Operation Wide Receiver is also responsible for Fast and Furious?


At the time, under the Bush administration Department of Justice (DOJ), no arrests or indictments were made. After President Barack Obama took office in 2009, the DOJ reviewed Wide Receiver and found that guns had been allowed into the hands of suspected gun traffickers. Indictments began in 2010, over three years after Wide Receiver concluded. As of October 4, 2011, nine people had been charged with making false statements in acquisition of firearms and illicit transfer, shipment or delivery of firearms; two of them had pled guilty.[15]

Another, smaller probe occurred in 2007 under the same ATF Phoenix field division. It began when the ATF identified Mexican suspects who bought weapons from a Phoenix gun shop over a span of several months. The probe ultimately involved over 200 guns, a dozen of which were lost in Mexico. On September 27, 2007, ATF agents saw the original suspects buying weapons at the same store and followed them toward the Mexican border. The ATF informed the Mexican government when the suspects successfully crossed the border, but Mexican law enforcement were unable to track them.[2][20]

Less than two weeks later, on October 6, William Newell, then ATF's special agent in charge of the Phoenix field division, shut down the operation at the behest of William Hoover, ATF's assistant director for the office of field operations.[21] No charges were filed. Newell, who was special agent in charge from June 2006 to May 2011, would later play a major role in Operation Fast and Furious.
ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


SO let's review shall we?

THE SAME THING, DONE BY THE SAME GUY went on under Bush. NO INDICTMENTS were made until the Obama administration CLEANED IT UP.


If you CONZ weren't so BLIND TO INCOMPETENCE, you would have caught this and Fast and Furious would never have been allowed to happen.
But just like the Wall Street Crash, you CONZ aren't really cut out for being responsible adults, are you?

 

[BluePhantom]

SO let's review shall we?

THE SAME THING, DONE BY THE SAME GUY went on under Bush. NO INDICTMENTS were made until the Obama administration CLEANED IT UP.

yeah let's review........"Oh fuck.....Obama's screwed....how can we find a way to blame Bush for it all?" Unbelievable.

 

[TheDecepticon]

SO let's review shall we?

THE SAME THING, DONE BY THE SAME GUY went on under Bush. NO INDICTMENTS were made until the Obama administration CLEANED IT UP.

yeah let's review........"Oh fuck.....Obama's screwed....how can we find a way to blame Bush for it all?" Unbelievable.

So there WASN'T a gun walking operation going on in the Bush years?

And it wasn't run by the SAME GUY?

And Bushco didn't get ONE SINGLE INDICTMENT, but the Obama Admin did?



You guys shat in the punchbowl, and now have the nerve to complain that someone else didn't clean your mess up fast enough or to your liking. Pathetic.

Tell me, what does it FEEL like to have your OPINION, utterly DESTROYED by the facts?

 

[teapartysamurai]

If people don't go to jail over F&F it's a gross miscarriage of justice.
Just what did the president know and when did he know it?

F&F, Solyndra--it looks like this might be the most scandal plagued white house since Clinton.

Which was our LAST Democrat President. Anyone sense a pattern here?

STOP VOTING DEMOCRAT!

 

[teapartysamurai]

Boy this is bad. First this story comes from CBS News, not some whacked out extremist blog. Second look at the dates.

"On July 14, 2010 after ATF headquarters in Washington D.C. received an update on Fast and Furious, ATF Field Ops Assistant Director Mark Chait emailed Bill Newell, ATF's Phoenix Special Agent in Charge of Fast and Furious:

"Bill - can you see if these guns were all purchased from the same (licensed gun dealer) and at one time. We are looking at anecdotal cases to support a demand letter on long gun multiple sales. Thanks."

Brain Terry was killed on December 14, 2010.


This looks like smoking gun (no pun intended) proof that the ATF did this for political purposes instead of it simply being "a bad idea gone wrong." We'll see how this play out but this is VERY VERY bad.

Rush had it right on this a year ago.

He knows liberals!

He said this was a scheme to justify gun control, and Rush turns out to be right again.

 

[teapartysamurai]

Didn't this start under the Bush adminstration?

The Associated Press is reporting on a second Bush administration investigation that involved so-called "gun walking" of weapons to Mexico, the same tactic for which the Obama administration is facing scrutiny from the Justice Department and Congress.

E-mails pertaining to a 2007 Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives operation out of Phoenix show that agents allowed illegal shipments of guns across the border into Mexico in a failed effort to identify higher-ups in smuggling networks. Earlier this month, the bureau's new director, B. Todd Jones, acknowledged ATF agents launched a similar operation in a 2006 called "Operation Wide Receiver.''
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/10/2nd-probe-surfac es-of-bush-era-gun-trafficking-to-mexico-/1


So, any bets on that the same brilliant brain trust that launched Operation Wide Receiver is also responsible for Fast and Furious?


At the time, under the Bush administration Department of Justice (DOJ), no arrests or indictments were made. After President Barack Obama took office in 2009, the DOJ reviewed Wide Receiver and found that guns had been allowed into the hands of suspected gun traffickers. Indictments began in 2010, over three years after Wide Receiver concluded. As of October 4, 2011, nine people had been charged with making false statements in acquisition of firearms and illicit transfer, shipment or delivery of firearms; two of them had pled guilty.[15]

Another, smaller probe occurred in 2007 under the same ATF Phoenix field division. It began when the ATF identified Mexican suspects who bought weapons from a Phoenix gun shop over a span of several months. The probe ultimately involved over 200 guns, a dozen of which were lost in Mexico. On September 27, 2007, ATF agents saw the original suspects buying weapons at the same store and followed them toward the Mexican border. The ATF informed the Mexican government when the suspects successfully crossed the border, but Mexican law enforcement were unable to track them.[2][20]

Less than two weeks later, on October 6, William Newell, then ATF's special agent in charge of the Phoenix field division, shut down the operation at the behest of William Hoover, ATF's assistant director for the office of field operations.[21] No charges were filed. Newell, who was special agent in charge from June 2006 to May 2011, would later play a major role in Operation Fast and Furious.
ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


SO let's review shall we?

THE SAME THING, DONE BY THE SAME GUY went on under Bush. NO INDICTMENTS were made until the Obama administration CLEANED IT UP.


If you CONZ weren't so BLIND TO INCOMPETENCE, you would have caught this and Fast and Furious would never have been allowed to happen.
But just like the Wall Street Crash, you CONZ aren't really cut out for being responsible adults, are you?

Here we go, another liberal trying to say "Bush did it!"

I hate to break it to you but WikiPedia is NOT accrate. Anyone can edit it.

Attorney General Eric Holder gave a speech on Gunwalker on April 2, 2009, in which he said, “My department is committing 100 new ATF personnel to the Southwest border in the next 100 days to supplement our ongoing Project Gunrunner [aka Gunwalker],” and in which he went on to mention the contribution other agencies were making to Gunwalker, is there really any way he didn’t know about Fast and Furious until the spring of 2011 as he claims?

Fast and Furious 'Flawed From the Start': An Interview With Congressman Paul Gosar - HUMAN EVENTS

Now, they might be able to claim, that this "gunwalker" existed before Holder took office, but it was Holder and the Obama admin that made it a way to spread guns across the border that ended up killing Americans.

Kee trying lying liberals.

 

[teapartysamurai]

SO let's review shall we?

THE SAME THING, DONE BY THE SAME GUY went on under Bush. NO INDICTMENTS were made until the Obama administration CLEANED IT UP.

yeah let's review........"Oh fuck.....Obama's screwed....how can we find a way to blame Bush for it all?" Unbelievable.

So there WASN'T a gun walking operation going on in the Bush years?

And it wasn't run by the SAME GUY?

And Bushco didn't get ONE SINGLE INDICTMENT, but the Obama Admin did?



You guys shat in the punchbowl, and now have the nerve to complain that someone else didn't clean your mess up fast enough or to your liking. Pathetic.

Tell me, what does it FEEL like to have your OPINION, utterly DESTROYED by the facts?

Dude, your only evidence for it, is the VERY flawed wikipedia.

But the timeline for Fast and Furious proves it started SQUARELY under the Obama admin and with Atty Gen ERIC HOLDER!

(CNSNews.com) - Operation Fast and Furious was a program carried out by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), a division of the U.S. Justice Department.

In this operation, which began in the fall of 2009 and continued into early 2011, the federal government purposefully allowed known or suspected gun smugglers to purchase guns at federally licensed firearms dealers in Arizona. The government did not seek to abort these gun purchases, intercept the smugglers after the purchases, or recover the guns they had purchased.

Gun-Running Timeline: How DOJ

 

[The Rabbi]

Eric Holder was Bush's AG? Who knew?

 

[paulitician]

Brian Terry deserves better than this. Shame on Eric Holder. He needs to pay up.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Liberals, in general, hate the thought of law abiding citizens freely posessing firearms.

To that end, they will do any and every thing they can to exaggerate, if not directly create, conditions that allow them to make some semblance of an argument that will support the limitation of the right of law-abiding citizens to do exactly that.

The fact that they are forced to supply weapons to Mexican drug cartels in the hopes of increasing crime in Mexico to the point where they can then suggest that the rights of Americans must be limited in an effort reduce said crime illustrates just how fracking insane these people really are.