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Does the doctor have to be present to give orders, or could the nurse take orders over the phone from a doctor?
Telephone orders can be given.
And while the head nurse is frantically trying to raise another doctor in this small town, the patient is actively dying.
We are talking about a matter of minutes here.
This hypothetical is falling apart.
What small town are we talking about.
Actually, no one will address it. Instead, the are trying to change the hypothetical.
Eventually we will move to the morphine hypothetical.
Actually, it was you that kept adding to the hypothetical...
Now we have a small, one-doctor hospital with a JW nurse added in...
What's next? Rising flood waters and a bomb scare?
Pathetic....................Since everyone seems obsessed with healthcare issues related to sex, let's try another one and let the pro and con sides argue their points:
The setting is an ER in a small town. A trauma comes in. The patient is in hypovolemic shock and has already gotten a 2 liter bolus of saline in the field but still has a weak pulse and unstable vitals/decreasing blood pressure.
The ER has 4 bags of type O blood ready to transfuse when the patient arrives.
However, the physician covering the ER that night recently converted to be a Jehovah's Witness and refuses to transfuse the patient because he believes it violates his religious beliefs. The patient expires before another physician can be tracked down.
Did he have a right to refuse the transfusion.
You mean this hypothetical hospital wouldn't have an on-call doctor?
What would happen if they had an accident with multiple victims? Would the single ER doctor choose who gets to live?
Why do they need an on call doctor when they have an attending one?
To the second, they don't get much trauma. It's a small town.
A hospital with only one doctor?
Huhwah?
Telephone orders can be given.
And while the head nurse is frantically trying to raise another doctor in this small town, the patient is actively dying.
We are talking about a matter of minutes here.
then your patient is already dead. for once it's decided that blood must be give the patients blood must be drawn and sent to the lab for a type and crossmatch.. that takes time. so your hypothetical doctor could order a type and cross match while waiting for another doctor to call him a pussy and order the life saving blood transfusion.
Pathetic....................Since everyone seems obsessed with healthcare issues related to sex, let's try another one and let the pro and con sides argue their points:
The setting is an ER in a small town. A trauma comes in. The patient is in hypovolemic shock and has already gotten a 2 liter bolus of saline in the field but still has a weak pulse and unstable vitals/decreasing blood pressure.
The ER has 4 bags of type O blood ready to transfuse when the patient arrives.
However, the physician covering the ER that night recently converted to be a Jehovah's Witness and refuses to transfuse the patient because he believes it violates his religious beliefs. The patient expires before another physician can be tracked down.
Did he have a right to refuse the transfusion.
A What if.....................
I think nurses can transfuse, but only on a doctor's orders.
Does the doctor have to be present to give orders, or could the nurse take orders over the phone from a doctor?
Telephone orders can be given.
Since everyone seems obsessed with healthcare issues related to sex, let's try another one and let the pro and con sides argue their points:
The setting is an ER in a small town. A trauma comes in. The patient is in hypovolemic shock and has already gotten a 2 liter bolus of saline in the field but still has a weak pulse and unstable vitals/decreasing blood pressure.
The ER has 4 bags of type O blood ready to transfuse when the patient arrives.
However, the physician covering the ER that night recently converted to be a Jehovah's Witness and refuses to transfuse the patient because he believes it violates his religious beliefs. The patient expires before another physician can be tracked down.
Did he have a right to refuse the transfusion.
Seriously...I reject the premise of this hypothetical.
I assume we are talking about reasonable people here.
A reasonable person would foresee the difficulties and make changes/arraignments to avoid those pitfalls.
Pathetic....................Since everyone seems obsessed with healthcare issues related to sex, let's try another one and let the pro and con sides argue their points:
The setting is an ER in a small town. A trauma comes in. The patient is in hypovolemic shock and has already gotten a 2 liter bolus of saline in the field but still has a weak pulse and unstable vitals/decreasing blood pressure.
The ER has 4 bags of type O blood ready to transfuse when the patient arrives.
However, the physician covering the ER that night recently converted to be a Jehovah's Witness and refuses to transfuse the patient because he believes it violates his religious beliefs. The patient expires before another physician can be tracked down.
Did he have a right to refuse the transfusion.
A What if.....................
Shockingly..... I told you it was a hypothetical in the title.
Piss off, junior. Adults are talking here.
This hypothetical is falling apart.
What small town are we talking about.
Actually, no one will address it. Instead, the are trying to change the hypothetical.
Eventually we will move to the morphine hypothetical.
Actually, it was you that kept adding to the hypothetical...
Now we have a small, one-doctor hospital with a JW nurse added in...
What's next? Rising flood waters and a bomb scare?
Does the doctor have to be present to give orders, or could the nurse take orders over the phone from a doctor?
Telephone orders can be given.
I suggest that the Doctor that was unable to do the transfusion would call for a backup Doctor to give the order to a nurse or EMT over the phone. He is not opposed to others not of his faith doing this medical procedure, only prevented from doing it himself.
Well I for one thought it was an interesting example. Smart to find a way to shift the debate from abortion.
I would hope that once the doctor converted, he would be honest about his inability to continue to meet the expectations of the community and would help the community make other arrangements. I'm not prepared to judge his actions in the interim and am uncomfortable with my own unwillingness to commit here.
Since everyone seems obsessed with healthcare issues related to sex, let's try another one and let the pro and con sides argue their points:
The setting is an ER in a small town. A trauma comes in. The patient is in hypovolemic shock and has already gotten a 2 liter bolus of saline in the field but still has a weak pulse and unstable vitals/decreasing blood pressure.
The ER has 4 bags of type O blood ready to transfuse when the patient arrives.
However, the physician covering the ER that night recently converted to be a Jehovah's Witness and refuses to transfuse the patient because he believes it violates his religious beliefs. The patient expires before another physician can be tracked down.
Did he have a right to refuse the transfusion.
Sure he does.
Pathetic....................
A What if.....................
Shockingly..... I told you it was a hypothetical in the title.
Piss off, junior. Adults are talking here.
Yes you did. I then stated a position of said hypothetical.
Since everyone seems obsessed with healthcare issues related to sex, let's try another one and let the pro and con sides argue their points:
The setting is an ER in a small town. A trauma comes in. The patient is in hypovolemic shock and has already gotten a 2 liter bolus of saline in the field but still has a weak pulse and unstable vitals/decreasing blood pressure.
The ER has 4 bags of type O blood ready to transfuse when the patient arrives.
However, the physician covering the ER that night recently converted to be a Jehovah's Witness and refuses to transfuse the patient because he believes it violates his religious beliefs. The patient expires before another physician can be tracked down.
Did he have a right to refuse the transfusion.
Telephone orders can be given.
I suggest that the Doctor that was unable to do the transfusion would call for a backup Doctor to give the order to a nurse or EMT over the phone. He is not opposed to others not of his faith doing this medical procedure, only prevented from doing it himself.
That's what I'm talking about.
Especially in a small town.
Here's how that conversation might go:Dr JW: Hey Bob, it's Dave...yes...sorry to bug you so late at night, but one of those cases we ...........discussed is on the way in...Nurse Nightingale's right here.
Dr. Knot: Sure Dave, no problem...how far out is your patient.
Dr. JW: 15 minutes. Thanks Bob.
Dr. Knot: My pleasure, Dave...this is why we make contingency plans...put Nightingale on, I'll give the ............order.
Don't get all butthurt because you fail at creating a realistic hypothetical, adding more and more issues designed to steer the answer to your preconceived ideal...
Actually, no one will address it. Instead, the are trying to change the hypothetical.
Eventually we will move to the morphine hypothetical.
Actually, it was you that kept adding to the hypothetical...
Now we have a small, one-doctor hospital with a JW nurse added in...
What's next? Rising flood waters and a bomb scare?
If you can't address the hypothetical, then tap out.
Also, I said there was one doctor covering the ER.
Ever been in a rural hospital at 2 am?
Don't get all butthurt because you fail at creating a realistic hypothetical, adding more and more issues designed to steer the answer to your preconceived ideal...Actually, it was you that kept adding to the hypothetical...
Now we have a small, one-doctor hospital with a JW nurse added in...
What's next? Rising flood waters and a bomb scare?
If you can't address the hypothetical, then tap out.
Also, I said there was one doctor covering the ER.
Ever been in a rural hospital at 2 am?
Missourian outlines a perfect alternative to your hypo....
Since everyone seems obsessed with healthcare issues related to sex, let's try another one and let the pro and con sides argue their points:
The setting is an ER in a small town. A trauma comes in. The patient is in hypovolemic shock and has already gotten a 2 liter bolus of saline in the field but still has a weak pulse and unstable vitals/decreasing blood pressure.
The ER has 4 bags of type O blood ready to transfuse when the patient arrives.
However, the physician covering the ER that night recently converted to be a Jehovah's Witness and refuses to transfuse the patient because he believes it violates his religious beliefs. The patient expires before another physician can be tracked down.
Did he have a right to refuse the transfusion.
I'm sure someone has mentioned this already. A doctor giving blood to a patient is not forbidden, It would be forbidden for the Doctor himself to receive blood.
If a doctor refused to transfuse a patient on his religious beliefs he's liable for possible criminal prosecution. BUT he at least should be removed from his position for being an idiot.
