Do you think paying teachers extra for increasing test scores from one year from the

[ScienceRocks]

Do you think paying teachers extra for increasing test scores from one year from the next is a good idea? Maybe some other reforms like within the innercities we can link welfare to a parent's willingness to help their children. Home work, etc. I think we should also allow choices for people to choose either Public education to money or private schools, ect. Why not?

Another idea for the innercities is classes for teaching the "basic concepts of working hard to being a good father". This would allow for the next generation to improve greatly.

 

[Jackson]

Do you think paying teachers extra for increasing test scores from one year from the next is a good idea? Maybe some other reforms like within the innercities we can link welfare to a parent's willingness to help their children. Home work, etc. I think we should also allow choices for people to choose either Public education to money or private schools, ect. Why not?

Another idea for the innercities is classes for teaching the "basic concepts of working hard to being a good father". This would allow for the next generation to improve greatly.

Yes, I think teachers who show better than average gains from spring to spring testing should get extra pay. But I also think there should be monitors in each classroom so the teachers cannot cheat on these tests. The teachers should never see the tests before they give them, just in instruction booklet. As soon as the test is over, the monitor should taken the tests out of the room.

Those tests should have an impact on whether the student fails or passes to the next grade. That would take the pass/fail out of the parents and teachers hands so social promotions would not be as prevelant as they are now, leading to students in the fourth grade who cannot read.

If we had the same criteria of order and diligence in the public schools as there is in the private schools, there wouldn't be the need for vouchers. Have students wear uniforms in public schools, high expectations for doing homework, zero tolerance for violence and high demands on the teachers for meetings with parents when students are not making the expected progress. Teachers should stay one hour after school so any parent can come in and talk with the teacher if they have a concern.

 

[rosends]

You raise an interesting question, but one which leads to much deeper issues of teacher evaluation. The problem lies in the fact that no one can prove that specific responses and results come from specific teaching actions. No one can point to any variable within a student's life and say "that's what did it" and thus, rewarding (or punishing) teachers based on test scores, an action which places too much stress on one particular outcome, becomes a problem.

I teach. Let's say that a student hears that good scores get me money and bad scores make me lose money. And this kid hates me (tough to believe, but, yeah). How motivated (if he doesn't have either his own motivation or some other reason for wanting to succeed) will he be to succeed if he knows that I benefit. Or maybe, the student is brilliant, but can't take standardized tests. Anxiety or even overthinking can make a smart student look bad. Maybe knowing that the test matters so much will drive me to skip other curricular areas and deemphasize thinking and inquiry. Instead, I push test prep. The kids do fine but I haven't really taught anything.

I justsee too much potential for downside when one decides to judge a teacher based on a single aspect of the educational experience. Does this mean I have a better system? Absolutely not. I have been in administration and the classroom for many years and can't quantify what good (or even successful) teaching is. I just hope I do it and judge my success when the students come back years later, with spouses, jobs and lives, and thank me.

 

[Connery]

A merit based remuneration lends itself to the teacher teaching for the test. When doing so the student's individual talents are often overlooked. There very integrity of the learning experience is in jeopardy and the student is not truly being prepared to meet challenges brought by life after school. Moreover, standardized tests may not reflect the intelligence and talents of students who may not have the same frame of reference as those generally taking the tests due to socioeconomic disadvantage, language or any number of variables.

 

[Grandma]

Successful learning comes from a range of variables: parental help with homework, parental enthusiasm for the school/school in general, teachers connecting with the student, education material being both easily understood and intellectually challenging for the student, proper nutrition, early diagnosis and treatment of learning disabilities, inspiration and motivation for life after graduation, and so on...

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Teachers aren't the primary problem; parents are.

 

[Grandma]

I don't see any primary problems, I think they all blend equally.

 

[rosends]

Successful learning comes from a range of variables: parental help with homework, parental enthusiasm for the school/school in general, teachers connecting with the student, education material being both easily understood and intellectually challenging for the student, proper nutrition, early diagnosis and treatment of learning disabilities, inspiration and motivation for life after graduation, and so on...

This is a great list but even it doesn't get to everything. Students are people who change daily or even more frequently. What worked one moment may not work the next. Assessing success may be impossible because we don't know exactly what we are looking for (it changes as well) and therefore, we don't know how to look for it.

 

[Connery]

Successful learning comes from a range of variables: parental help with homework, parental enthusiasm for the school/school in general, teachers connecting with the student, education material being both easily understood and intellectually challenging for the student, proper nutrition, early diagnosis and treatment of learning disabilities, inspiration and motivation for life after graduation, and so on...

By failing to allow our children to be people and grow as individuals we are fostering a generation that will be dependent upon an paternalistic government. Society will not flourish and our future generations will on an intellectual welfare system.

 

[Unkotare]

Yes, I think teachers who show better than average gains from spring to spring testing should get extra pay. But I also think there should be monitors in each classroom so the teachers cannot cheat on these tests. The teachers should never see the tests before they give them, just in instruction booklet. As soon as the test is over, the monitor should taken the tests out of the room.

LOL! Think about that a little more.

 

[Unkotare]

If we had the same criteria of order and diligence in the public schools as there is in the private schools, there wouldn't be the need for vouchers. Have students wear uniforms in public schools, high expectations for doing homework, zero tolerance for violence and high demands on the teachers for meetings with parents when students are not making the expected progress. Teachers should stay one hour after school so any parent can come in and talk with the teacher if they have a concern.

Not all private schools require uniforms. Public school teachers do require that homework be done, and kids in private schools slack off in this regard as well. Public school teachers have parent-teacher meetings. NO school, public or private is going to pay to have teachers hang around all day after school just in case a parent pops in to chat.

 

[Annie]

Family is the number one influence in how students regard school and their relationship to learning. That doesn't mean however, that for some students, an inspirational teacher or coach cannot turn around their attitude. It happens all the time.

As for evaluating teachers by standardized tests, I've mixed feelings. Most standardized testing now happens in the fall, not spring. What is being evaluated is mostly from the previous year. I'm a secondary teacher, (6-12), thus 'subject area teacher.' I've no problem with my students that have had me as a teacher for at least a year being the basis of an evaluation in part. Have been looking at those results for years and all my students gain significantly, which to me is what matters. If they were 2 grades below and are now 'at level,' I've succeeded. If they were 2 grades ahead and are now 'beyond grade 12' I've succeeded. In the later case most likely them than me, but in the former? Not so much, though they had to rise to the challenge.

Personally I believe that the district should provide testing for the beginning of the year in subject area and another for perhaps mid-May, if they wish to hold this as a factor of evaluation. That way they are measuring what the students have learned, based on subject area standards. Simple for teachers, base the lessons on state standards, assess and re-teach where necessary. Make sure your students hit the goals.

 

[Unkotare]

Or maybe, the student is brilliant, but can't take standardized tests.

A "brilliant" student isn't going to completely suck at standardized tests. That's a cliched cop-out.

 

[rosends]

Or maybe, the student is brilliant, but can't take standardized tests.

A "brilliant" student isn't going to completely suck at standardized tests. That's a cliched cop-out.

ok, maybe I'm not brilliant but I think I'm pretty darned smart. And through my high school careers I couldn't take a standardized test to save my life. Cliches become cliches because they are truths that are so cited that they become overused.

 

[Unkotare]

Or maybe, the student is brilliant, but can't take standardized tests.

A "brilliant" student isn't going to completely suck at standardized tests. That's a cliched cop-out.

ok, maybe I'm not brilliant but I think I'm pretty darned smart. And through my high school careers I couldn't take a standardized test to save my life.

You're probably not as "darned smart" as you want to think you are.

 

[rosends]

A "brilliant" student isn't going to completely suck at standardized tests. That's a cliched cop-out.

ok, maybe I'm not brilliant but I think I'm pretty darned smart. And through my high school careers I couldn't take a standardized test to save my life.

You're probably not as "darned smart" as you want to think you are.

Without trying to trot out my CV, I'll say that my academic performance was never reflected by the scores on standardized tests. I also note many students of mine over the years who excelled and demonstrated brilliance in certain performative milieus but who, for a variety of reasons, could not perform on a closed-ended, multiple choice, timed standardized test. What have your years in the classroom revealed about student ability as reflected by external assessment?

 

[Samson]

ok, maybe I'm not brilliant but I think I'm pretty darned smart. And through my high school careers I couldn't take a standardized test to save my life.

You're probably not as "darned smart" as you want to think you are.

Without trying to trot out my CV, I'll say that my academic performance was never reflected by the scores on standardized tests. I also note many students of mine over the years who excelled and demonstrated brilliance in certain performative milieus but who, for a variety of reasons, could not perform on a closed-ended, multiple choice, timed standardized test. What have your years in the classroom revealed about student ability as reflected by external assessment?

My years in the classroom suggest you are full of shit.

"Many" students do not have trouble both performing on standardized test as well as other performance measurements. Perhaps a few, but I cannot think of "Many."

However, "Many" students that cannot, or have not learned standard skills and knowledge cannot do well on standardized tests.

Teachers who have trouble admitting this obvious fact are normally the deadbeats who do not like teaching to standardized methods, do not like composing assessments, are too fucking lazy to grade frequently, and like teaching so they are never held accountable for their poor performance.

 

[rosends]

You're probably not as "darned smart" as you want to think you are.

Without trying to trot out my CV, I'll say that my academic performance was never reflected by the scores on standardized tests. I also note many students of mine over the years who excelled and demonstrated brilliance in certain performative milieus but who, for a variety of reasons, could not perform on a closed-ended, multiple choice, timed standardized test. What have your years in the classroom revealed about student ability as reflected by external assessment?

My years in the classroom suggest you are full of shit.

"Many" students do not have trouble both performing on standardized test as well as other performance measurements. Perhaps a few, but I cannot think of "Many."

However, "Many" students that cannot, or have not learned standard skills and knowledge cannot do well on standardized tests.

Teachers who have trouble admitting this obvious fact are normally the deadbeats who do not like teaching to standardized methods, do not like composing assessments, are too fucking lazy to grade frequently, and like teaching so they are never held accountable for their poor performance.

That certainly is one opinion. One that has not been borne out by any experience that I have had and one presented with an attitude so antithetical to what a good teacher should reflect that it is worthless. That you can't think of many doesn't mean I can't. That you think of teachers who have had different experiences as deadbeats is just sad and closed minded. I pity your students, if indeed you have or have had any.

 

[Unkotare]

What have your years in the classroom revealed about student ability as reflected by external assessment?

That "Oh, I just don't like tests!" is nothing but a cop-out 99.9% of the time, and that reveals plenty right there.

 

[NoNukes]

Do you think paying teachers extra for increasing test scores from one year from the next is a good idea? Maybe some other reforms like within the innercities we can link welfare to a parent's willingness to help their children. Home work, etc. I think we should also allow choices for people to choose either Public education to money or private schools, ect. Why not?

Another idea for the innercities is classes for teaching the "basic concepts of working hard to being a good father". This would allow for the next generation to improve greatly.

What if the teachers are Black?