Do You Think It's Ok To Bribe Congressmembers To Get Their Votes?

[antagon]

ive not seen congressmen like that, california girl. most of the time they present policies that are based on what they and their party thinks is the best way to do things... more like your 'in their best interest' model. these party and candidate positions are based on the combined effect of voter mandate and the financial backing that will help them secure it... also some kind of cohesion which parties bring to national politics. (for better/worse)

there's not much referendum power in national politics. there's been several elections where an issue of concern to me was not slated, or candidates all seemed like idiots (see 2004 presidency race). presuming from your name you could relate: the california referendum style is much more populist, but i dont feel that has had the best results. the people want to screw themselves over in the booths every few years with some proposition.

'populist' and 'conservative' dont mix in my mind, and national politics needs to have a component of conservatism. every car need brakes. campaign reform has hurt the conservatives. i think republicans embarrass themselves when forced to move to a populist base; i wont associate with the people that theyve come up with. its all reflected in their candidates and rhetoric. if conservatives want to usher a reagan age back into place, they'd have to get comfortable with the business lobbies who put the head on the shoulders of the party in the early 80s.

Politicians are beholding to their money source. They rarely consider what is best for us. They mostly take their own personal best interests into account. That is the problem...and you seem to just wave it off like it's not a problem worth addressing.

Most of the deals Obama is using to get the votes he needs are exemptions from the conditions of the bill. Now what exactly does that say about this piece of shit bill I ask you?

yeah. our influence is limited to our votes. policies in the interest of politicians occasionally intersect our benefit by virtue of that, however, it seems just the flavor of the law is for the masses, sometimes: you want health reform?... here it is. tastes like H/C reform. you want tax relief?.. here, tastes like tax relief.

i wave political mischief off having observed it for a couple decades and seen it as it's method, and because life goes on just fine despite it. if you are greener to that, then buckle your seatbelt. case/point your shock over concessions in the bill couldnt indicate youve seen this process before. presuming youre a conservative, potentially a republican, you must have noticed the alternative icing of bills with earmarks which is the trademark of the other side of the aisle... or not.

there's enough room between blatant corruption and lobbying, political volleying and bribery for one to accept the way the country has always been run. blurring all of this together and condemning these practices is tantamount to a condemnation of our democracy... be it rights not manifest by government to disparage, or taxation of parties without representation. everything else is down to compromise and political barter... we endorsed slavery for solidarity to get this ball rolling. what appointment or political concession casts a shadow on that?

 

[Murf76]

... we endorsed slavery for solidarity to get this ball rolling. what appointment or political concession casts a shadow on that?

Yeah... and how'd THAT turn out?

See, that's the problem with putting expediency over principles. It always catches up to us, and by the time it does, the consequences are monstrous.

 

[Yurt]

The Supreme Court has as much as said it's OK. They said money is speech so when someone delivers a bag of money to an elected official, they're just talking.

liar...they said you could not give that money directly to the candidate

 

[Care4all]

You're talking about a bill that was 6 years in Congress.
In any legislation like that there is arm twisting there is give and take.
But the level of outright bribery--promising future political appointments in exchange for votes, is unprecedented here. That is what distinguishes this as bribery versus traditional give and take politics.
Of course having had this pointed out, you will withdraw from the discussion and go on to some other misinformed view. Like always.

NO RABBI, it is NOT unprecedented......not in the least unprecedented. the level of what you call bribery, was well above what is happening now, to pass this bill....it was downright ILLEGAL to hold that vote opened for 3 plus hours when the rules say 15 minutes....and the vote after 15 minutes was a NO VOTE, they never closed the vote after it was counted and recorded....they kept it open for 3 straight hours of BRIBING....they offered to PAY for a congressman's son run for office, PHARMA was allowed on to the floor of congress to bribe the others...bush got on the phone at 3 am in the morning to bribe for votes...the house did this in the middle of the night, the wee hours of the morning hoping to HIDE their shenanigans.....

Please post links that describe how congressmen were offered actual money for their personal benefit in exchange for their votes.
If you can't do that then shut the fuck up.

it's a free country dear, move if you don't like it! google it yourself, the information is out there....if you REALLY want to know....

 

[Nonelitist]

The Supreme Court has as much as said it's OK. They said money is speech so when someone delivers a bag of money to an elected official, they're just talking.

Not true. Supreme Court said people can donate to a campaign or cause.

quid pro quo is supposed to be illegal, and that is what this is.

 

[Wry Catcher]

We keep hearing about all of the promises that Obama is making to all of these Democrats to change their votes. Doesn't this look a bit unseemly? Who is really being served here anyway; The politicians or the people that put them in their jobs?

How many times in the last two weeks has Obama committed an impeachable offense? If George Bush was doing this would he get the same pass Obama is currently getting?

You can't bribe a judge, lawyer, or a jurist....so why is it OK to bribe a politician? Somebody answer this question for me because I'm not getting it.

In all respects the President is breaking the law because he's offering gifts for their votes, even if it's not a personal bribe...it does benefit the receiver directly in his or her own state. This should be against the law...and only illustrates the corruption in Washington....doesn't it?????

You can't be serious. Getting hysterical now, and defending GWB. Have you ever heard of Tom Delay, aka The Hammer? Or some guy by the name of Abrahmoff? Do a little research and stop being a hypocrite.
You and the other RW fringers have no integrity at all.

 

[uscitizen]

No overly partisan hacks have integrity.

 

[antagon]

... we endorsed slavery for solidarity to get this ball rolling. what appointment or political concession casts a shadow on that?

Yeah... and how'd THAT turn out?

See, that's the problem with putting expediency over principles. It always catches up to us, and by the time it does, the consequences are monstrous.

we won the 1812 as the anthem goes... any of a confederacy or two individual federations would likely not have managed that. in the end, now, it turned out fine.

 

[beowolfe]

We keep hearing about all of the promises that Obama is making to all of these Democrats to change their votes. Doesn't this look a bit unseemly? Who is really being served here anyway; The politicians or the people that put them in their jobs?

How many times in the last two weeks has Obama committed an impeachable offense? If George Bush was doing this would he get the same pass Obama is currently getting?

You can't bribe a judge, lawyer, or a jurist....so why is it OK to bribe a politician? Somebody answer this question for me because I'm not getting it.

In all respects the President is breaking the law because he's offering gifts for their votes, even if it's not a personal bribe...it does benefit the receiver directly in his or her own state. This should be against the law...and only illustrates the corruption in Washington....doesn't it?????

And just what is Obama supposed to be promising? I've heard no one say that he offered them anything to change their votes.

 

[The Rabbi]

NO RABBI, it is NOT unprecedented......not in the least unprecedented. the level of what you call bribery, was well above what is happening now, to pass this bill....it was downright ILLEGAL to hold that vote opened for 3 plus hours when the rules say 15 minutes....and the vote after 15 minutes was a NO VOTE, they never closed the vote after it was counted and recorded....they kept it open for 3 straight hours of BRIBING....they offered to PAY for a congressman's son run for office, PHARMA was allowed on to the floor of congress to bribe the others...bush got on the phone at 3 am in the morning to bribe for votes...the house did this in the middle of the night, the wee hours of the morning hoping to HIDE their shenanigans.....

Please post links that describe how congressmen were offered actual money for their personal benefit in exchange for their votes.
If you can't do that then shut the fuck up.

it's a free country dear, move if you don't like it! google it yourself, the information is out there....if you REALLY want to know....

Translation: No I don't have any evidence because there isn't any. But I want to believe it, so it must be true.
Really, this is just a replay of the thread about leftwing commentators' misogyny where you tried to pretend that "they all do it" but failed to find a single relevant example when challenged.
You need to stick to subjects you can back up, like diapers, sugar buns.

 

[beowolfe]

The Supreme Court has as much as said it's OK. They said money is speech so when someone delivers a bag of money to an elected official, they're just talking.

Not true. Supreme Court said people can donate to a campaign or cause.

quid pro quo is supposed to be illegal, and that is what this is.

And just what statute made quid pro quo between the leader of the Senate and a senator, or between the speaker of the house and a representative; or even between the POTUS and a member of congress illegal?

Congress has been built on the concept of 'horse trading'. To my recollection, NEVER has a law been passed to make this illegal.

 

[antagon]

youre not playing fair rabbi. if you were given a link you wouldnt take your own advise and shut the fuck up would you?

 

[antagon]

The Supreme Court has as much as said it's OK. They said money is speech so when someone delivers a bag of money to an elected official, they're just talking.

Not true. Supreme Court said people can donate to a campaign or cause.

quid pro quo is supposed to be illegal, and that is what this is.

And just what statute made quid pro quo between the leader of the Senate and a senator, or between the speaker of the house and a representative; or even between the POTUS and a member of congress illegal?

Congress has been built on the concept of 'horse trading'. To my recollection, NEVER has a law been passed to make this illegal.

sure, but couldnt a line be drawn to keep the explicit trading within the sphere of legislative compromise? theres no link like the nick smith deal to make obamas fancydance criminal, but these types of envelopes shouldnt be routinely tested, either. whipping the party line with blackmail is much preferred

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The Supreme Court has as much as said it's OK. They said money is speech so when someone delivers a bag of money to an elected official, they're just talking.

Not true. Supreme Court said people can donate to a campaign or cause.

quid pro quo is supposed to be illegal, and that is what this is.

And just what statute made quid pro quo between the leader of the Senate and a senator, or between the speaker of the house and a representative; or even between the POTUS and a member of congress illegal?

Congress has been built on the concept of 'horse trading'. To my recollection, NEVER has a law been passed to make this illegal.

Read the Constitution. Congress can NOT use tax dollars collected from all citizens to provide a common entitlement and then give certain States sweetheart deals. It is ILLEGAL.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Section 8 Article I of the US Constitution.

Section 8.

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Article I | LII / Legal Information Institute

 

[HUGGY]

We keep hearing about all of the promises that Obama is making to all of these Democrats to change their votes. Doesn't this look a bit unseemly? Who is really being served here anyway; The politicians or the people that put them in their jobs?

How many times in the last two weeks has Obama committed an impeachable offense? If George Bush was doing this would he get the same pass Obama is currently getting?

You can't bribe a judge, lawyer, or a jurist....so why is it OK to bribe a politician? Somebody answer this question for me because I'm not getting it.

In all respects the President is breaking the law because he's offering gifts for their votes, even if it's not a personal bribe...it does benefit the receiver directly in his or her own state. This should be against the law...and only illustrates the corruption in Washington....doesn't it?????

Do You Think It's Ok To Bribe Congressmembers To Get Their Votes?

As long as we can have the right to shoot lobbiests on sight... I don't care what they do.

 

[Ravi]

Not true. Supreme Court said people can donate to a campaign or cause.

quid pro quo is supposed to be illegal, and that is what this is.

And just what statute made quid pro quo between the leader of the Senate and a senator, or between the speaker of the house and a representative; or even between the POTUS and a member of congress illegal?

Congress has been built on the concept of 'horse trading'. To my recollection, NEVER has a law been passed to make this illegal.

Read the Constitution. Congress can NOT use tax dollars collected from all citizens to provide a common entitlement and then give certain States sweetheart deals. It is ILLEGAL.

Like the bridge to nowhere?

 

[The Rabbi]

youre not playing fair rabbi. if you were given a link you wouldnt take your own advise and shut the fuck up would you?

Come up with a link and let's see.
But I dont go around making claims about parties and their behavior that I can't support. Unlike seemingly most of the liberal posters around here.

 

[antagon]

Not true. Supreme Court said people can donate to a campaign or cause.

quid pro quo is supposed to be illegal, and that is what this is.

And just what statute made quid pro quo between the leader of the Senate and a senator, or between the speaker of the house and a representative; or even between the POTUS and a member of congress illegal?

Congress has been built on the concept of 'horse trading'. To my recollection, NEVER has a law been passed to make this illegal.

Read the Constitution. Congress can NOT use tax dollars collected from all citizens to provide a common entitlement and then give certain States sweetheart deals. It is ILLEGAL.

ouch. bad comprehension day for the sarge. might the constitution only mandate that taxes are evenly collected across states?

 

[The Rabbi]

Not true. Supreme Court said people can donate to a campaign or cause.

quid pro quo is supposed to be illegal, and that is what this is.

And just what statute made quid pro quo between the leader of the Senate and a senator, or between the speaker of the house and a representative; or even between the POTUS and a member of congress illegal?

Congress has been built on the concept of 'horse trading'. To my recollection, NEVER has a law been passed to make this illegal.

Read the Constitution. Congress can NOT use tax dollars collected from all citizens to provide a common entitlement and then give certain States sweetheart deals. It is ILLEGAL.

Sorry. I'm not seeing where this is anywhere in the constitution. In fact, this kind of horsetrading happens all the time. Support my bill and I'll see that your district gets a new military base.
That's how politics is done.
How it is not done is: Support my bill and when you get wiped out in the election we have a nice ambassadorship for you waiting.
That is out and out bribery and just what Obama is doing.