Do you stand with Israel or Palestine?

[P F Tinmore]

Isn't there a poster that goes along with that slogan? In fact the Arabs who attacked the Jewish communities were for the most part the foreign invasion, having come to the Mandate recently in wave after wave of illegal immigration from the surrounding Arab countries and rendering the indigenous Arab population into an insignificant and powerless minority. The UN acknowledged this fact by defining a Palestinian refugee as some who

Bullcrap propaganda. Studies of the increase in the Palestinian population said that immigration was insignificant. The increase was a little less than 1% per year. Hardly the "flood of Arab immigrants" the the lying propagandists claim.

Of course these "studies" were all propaganda that used 600,000 or 700,000 as the initial population of Arabs west if the Jordan River, when the British reported that this was the number of all persons in the Mandate, including what would shortly become Trans Jordan, Arab or not. Since Trans Jordan comprised 78% of the Mandate, the population west of the Jordan River was no more than 22% of 700,000 or 154, 000, and since the British reported that there were 76,000 Jews in this area, there could have been no more than 78,000 Arabs in the area. By 1947, there were an estimated 1,200,000 Arabs in the area, a 15+ increase in Arab population - even bunnies couldn't push out babies that fast. Moreover, the British reports to the League of Nations complain that while the British were able to effectively stop Jewish immigration, they could do little to stem the flood of Arab immigrants coming from the surrounding countries. Later the UN acknowledged that most Arabs in the area were recent immigrants when, under pressure from Arab countries, the UN defined a Palestinian refugee as

Under UNRWA's operational definition, Palestine refugees are people whose normal place of residence was Palestine between June 1946 and May 1948, who lost both their homes and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 Arab-Israeli conflict.

Palestine refugees-UNRWA

West of the Jordan there were many major population centers. East of the Jordan was very sparsely populated.

You need to find a better source for your numbers.

 

[peach174]

Israel is very small in land mass compared to Syria and Jordan.
Why can't Syria and or Jordan give up some of their land to create a Palestinian state?

 

[JWBooth]

Hi, you have received -121 reputation points from GHook93.
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Comment:
Troll

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GHook93

Note: This is an automated message.

There are ghey fucks, and, like the quoted pole smoker, there are really ghey fucks.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Mark Twain wrote of a visit he made to Palestine in the 1800's that the country was basically a wasteland. Therefore, Arabs from neighboring countries were as "recent" immigrants as the Jews were. And besides the population, the land itself was neglected and turned into malaria-infested swamps. Only the Jews cared enough about the land to turn them into farms and kibbutzim.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Bullcrap propaganda. Studies of the increase in the Palestinian population said that immigration was insignificant. The increase was a little less than 1% per year. Hardly the "flood of Arab immigrants" the the lying propagandists claim.

Of course these "studies" were all propaganda that used 600,000 or 700,000 as the initial population of Arabs west if the Jordan River, when the British reported that this was the number of all persons in the Mandate, including what would shortly become Trans Jordan, Arab or not. Since Trans Jordan comprised 78% of the Mandate, the population west of the Jordan River was no more than 22% of 700,000 or 154, 000, and since the British reported that there were 76,000 Jews in this area, there could have been no more than 78,000 Arabs in the area. By 1947, there were an estimated 1,200,000 Arabs in the area, a 15+ increase in Arab population - even bunnies couldn't push out babies that fast. Moreover, the British reports to the League of Nations complain that while the British were able to effectively stop Jewish immigration, they could do little to stem the flood of Arab immigrants coming from the surrounding countries. Later the UN acknowledged that most Arabs in the area were recent immigrants when, under pressure from Arab countries, the UN defined a Palestinian refugee as

Under UNRWA's operational definition, Palestine refugees are people whose normal place of residence was Palestine between June 1946 and May 1948, who lost both their homes and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 Arab-Israeli conflict.

Palestine refugees-UNRWA

West of the Jordan there were many major population centers. East of the Jordan was very sparsely populated.

You need to find a better source for your numbers.

What are now major Palestinian Arab cities were then small towns or villages with insignificant populations. Most of the Jewish population lived along the coast or around Jerusalem while the Arab population lived in these small towns and villages, most of which are in the West Bank.

Jordan was sparsely populated given its land area, still estimates of its population range up to 700,000 in 1922.

JORDAN: population growth of the whole country

Of course nearly all the borders were defined by the European powers and the Arabs in the area had little knowledge of them or respect for them, so populations shifted according to rumors and perceived economic opportunities in one place or another. Everything from estimates of the 1922 population to British reports of massive Arab immigration into the western Mandate to the UN's definition of a Palestinian refugee as some one who lived in the area for only two years points to the fact that the cherished myth of anti Israeli propagandists that the Arab population in 1948 was made up largely of an indigenous population is false and that this original population was overrun by Arab immigrants from the surrounding countries who had their own agenda and who led the area to decades of conflict.

 

[MikeK]

Mark Twain wrote of a visit he made to Palestine in the 1800's that the country was basically a wasteland. Therefore, Arabs from neighboring countries were as "recent" immigrants as the Jews were. And besides the population, the land itself was neglected and turned into malaria-infested swamps. Only the Jews cared enough about the land to turn them into farms and kibbutzim.

With substantial financial assistance and gifts of expensive farming equipment from the United States.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Of course these "studies" were all propaganda that used 600,000 or 700,000 as the initial population of Arabs west if the Jordan River, when the British reported that this was the number of all persons in the Mandate, including what would shortly become Trans Jordan, Arab or not. Since Trans Jordan comprised 78% of the Mandate, the population west of the Jordan River was no more than 22% of 700,000 or 154, 000, and since the British reported that there were 76,000 Jews in this area, there could have been no more than 78,000 Arabs in the area. By 1947, there were an estimated 1,200,000 Arabs in the area, a 15+ increase in Arab population - even bunnies couldn't push out babies that fast. Moreover, the British reports to the League of Nations complain that while the British were able to effectively stop Jewish immigration, they could do little to stem the flood of Arab immigrants coming from the surrounding countries. Later the UN acknowledged that most Arabs in the area were recent immigrants when, under pressure from Arab countries, the UN defined a Palestinian refugee as

West of the Jordan there were many major population centers. East of the Jordan was very sparsely populated.

You need to find a better source for your numbers.

What are now major Palestinian Arab cities were then small towns or villages with insignificant populations. Most of the Jewish population lived along the coast or around Jerusalem while the Arab population lived in these small towns and villages, most of which are in the West Bank.

Jordan was sparsely populated given its land area, still estimates of its population range up to 700,000 in 1922.

JORDAN: population growth of the whole country

Of course nearly all the borders were defined by the European powers and the Arabs in the area had little knowledge of them or respect for them, so populations shifted according to rumors and perceived economic opportunities in one place or another. Everything from estimates of the 1922 population to British reports of massive Arab immigration into the western Mandate to the UN's definition of a Palestinian refugee as some one who lived in the area for only two years points to the fact that the cherished myth of anti Israeli propagandists that the Arab population in 1948 was made up largely of an indigenous population is false and that this original population was overrun by Arab immigrants from the surrounding countries who had their own agenda and who led the area to decades of conflict.

Are you still pushing that tired old propaganda that Palestine was a land without people for a people without a land?

 

[toomuchtime_]

Mark Twain wrote of a visit he made to Palestine in the 1800's that the country was basically a wasteland. Therefore, Arabs from neighboring countries were as "recent" immigrants as the Jews were. And besides the population, the land itself was neglected and turned into malaria-infested swamps. Only the Jews cared enough about the land to turn them into farms and kibbutzim.

With substantial financial assistance and gifts of expensive farming equipment from the United States.

There was no financial assistance from the government of the US when the early Zionists were reclaiming the poor quality land which the Arabs and Ottoman Turks allowed them to buy. The Jewish Agency may have raised some money in the form of charitable contributions in the US and may have purchased some equipment here, but the US government played no part in helping the Jews in Israel in those early days.

 

[docmauser1]

Studies of the increase in the Palestinian population said that immigration was insignificant. The increase was a little less than 1% per year. Hardly the "flood of Arab immigrants" the the lying propagandists claim.

In famous words of Winnie Churchill "Far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied until their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population." Churchill sure knew his settling arabs, so why do we refuse to admit that arab settling "enterprise"? Politically incorrect & inconvenient?

 

[toomuchtime_]

West of the Jordan there were many major population centers. East of the Jordan was very sparsely populated.

You need to find a better source for your numbers.

What are now major Palestinian Arab cities were then small towns or villages with insignificant populations. Most of the Jewish population lived along the coast or around Jerusalem while the Arab population lived in these small towns and villages, most of which are in the West Bank.

Jordan was sparsely populated given its land area, still estimates of its population range up to 700,000 in 1922.

JORDAN: population growth of the whole country

Of course nearly all the borders were defined by the European powers and the Arabs in the area had little knowledge of them or respect for them, so populations shifted according to rumors and perceived economic opportunities in one place or another. Everything from estimates of the 1922 population to British reports of massive Arab immigration into the western Mandate to the UN's definition of a Palestinian refugee as some one who lived in the area for only two years points to the fact that the cherished myth of anti Israeli propagandists that the Arab population in 1948 was made up largely of an indigenous population is false and that this original population was overrun by Arab immigrants from the surrounding countries who had their own agenda and who led the area to decades of conflict.

Are you still pushing that tired old propaganda that Palestine was a land without people for a people without a land?

Certainly there were people there when the British arrived, about 154,000 people west of the Jordan River with roughly the same number of Arabs and Jews. In the area that would eventually become Israel, there was probably more Jews than Arabs.

 

[Shogun]

Are you two silly fuckers REALLY quoting Winston "Hey, let's keep our Indian colony" Churchill and Mark "******* ******* *******" Twain?


ooooook.

 

[mattskramer]

Neither

 

[P F Tinmore]

Mark Twain wrote of a visit he made to Palestine in the 1800's that the country was basically a wasteland. Therefore, Arabs from neighboring countries were as "recent" immigrants as the Jews were. And besides the population, the land itself was neglected and turned into malaria-infested swamps. Only the Jews cared enough about the land to turn them into farms and kibbutzim.

A British missionary who lived in Beirut and visited Palestine in 1859 described the southern coastal area as "a very ocean of wheat," and the British Consul in Jerusalem, James Finn, reported that "the fields would do credit to British farming."(5)

The German geographer Alexander Scholch concluded that between 1856 and 1882 "Palestine produced a relatively large agricultural surplus which was marketed in neighboring countries, such as Egypt and Lebanon, and increasingly exported to Europe. These exports included wheat, barley, dura, maise, sesame, olive oil, soap, oranges, vegetables and cotton. Among the European importers of Palestinian produce were France, England, Turkey, Greece, Italy and Malta."(6)

Lawrence Oliphant, who visited Palestine in 1887, wrote that Palestine's Valley of Esdraelon was "a huge green lake of waving wheat, with its village-crowned mounds rising from it like islands; and it presents one of the most striking pictures of luxuriant fertility which it is possible to conceive."(7) This Palestinian wheat had historically played an important part in international commerce. According to Paul Masson, a French economic historian, "wheat shipments from the Palestinian port of Acre had helped to save southern France from famine on numerous occasions in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries."(8)

Agricultural techniques in Palestine, especially in citriculture, were among the most advanced in the world long before the first Zionist settlers came to its shores. In 1856, the American consul in Jerusalem, Henry Gillman, "outlined reasons why orange growers in Florida would find it advantageous to adopt Palestinian techniques of grafting directly onto lemon trees."^ In 1893, the British Consul advised his government of the value of importing "young trees procured from Jaffa" to improve production in Australia and South Africa.(10)

Chapter 2: Encyclopedia of the Palestine Problem

 

[Liberty]

PF, you lost the poll give it up. Embrace democracy lol.

 

[P F Tinmore]

PF, you lost the poll give it up. Embrace democracy lol.

Look at the bright side. Ten years ago it would have been Israel 95%, Palestine 1%, and undecided 4%.

We are making progress.

 

[Liberty]

PF, you lost the poll give it up. Embrace democracy lol.

Look at the bright side. Ten years ago it would have been Israel 95%, Palestine 1%, and undecided 4%.

We are making progress.

I got a giant mountain of shit making progress, but guess what: It's still up my ass.

 

[P F Tinmore]

PF, you lost the poll give it up. Embrace democracy lol.

Look at the bright side. Ten years ago it would have been Israel 95%, Palestine 1%, and undecided 4%.

We are making progress.

I got a giant mountain of shit making progress, but guess what: It's still up my ass.

I wasn't going to mention that.

 

[Liberty]

Look at the bright side. Ten years ago it would have been Israel 95%, Palestine 1%, and undecided 4%.

We are making progress.

I got a giant mountain of shit making progress, but guess what: It's still up my ass.

I wasn't going to mention that.

Only thing I could think of...I really had to shit.

 

[Cuyo]

It's a simple question - do you stand with Israel or Palestine?

Neither. I'd like them both to go away. If they won't do that I'd like the U.S. Government to wish them both luck, close the door and pull down the shade. They are none of our business

If it weren't for that pesky petroleum over there, we'd be about as interested in them as we are in Sudan.

 

[Ropey]

It's a simple question - do you stand with Israel or Palestine?

Neither. I'd like them both to go away. If they won't do that I'd like the U.S. Government to wish them both luck, close the door and pull down the shade. They are none of our business

If it weren't for that pesky petroleum over there, we'd be about as interested in them as we are in Sudan.

United States Middle Eastern Hegemony​

Indeed. Israel is a piece in the US Strategic Interests of the Middle East.

I say that MikeK's views are not very important. He's extreme in line and extant because what he says is that he wants the US to let go of the problem of Palestine and Israel (and there's many more other problems in the Middle East) and which is attached to the American Middle Easter Oil Hegemony) in order to just simply allow others to take the entire system the US has created and runs over. Because MikeK thinks this is a good idea.



He's so far extreme that he can't see that he's calling for the destruction of a major piece of the Capitalist system and that's just not in the books.