Do you people not realize that both political parties are at fault?

[C_Clayton_Jones]

This back and forth blame game over the credit rating downgrade is just ridiculous. Democrats and Republicans in Congress, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush and Obama are all to blame. All Washington did was play the same "kick the can" bullshit that got us into this mess and now they point fingers at each other. Entitlements have to be reformed, revenue has to increase, tax loopholes need to be closed and everyone in DC knows this. But no one has the guts to take on their own side and fix it.

This board reflects the stupidity that takes place in Washington. The dozens of tit for tat threads are pointless. If we would have defaulted our credit rating would have been downgraded by everyone and the economy would sink even further. If we don't reform SS and Medicare we will sink even further. None of our political leaders are willing to do the hard work, they all just want to get reelected. I'm disgusted by the weakness of our "leaders" to fail to put America before Republican Party, Democratic Party or reelection.

Although I agree with this general assessment and spirit of the sentiment, an objective observer must concede the disruptive nature of TPM and GOP conservative extremists. Moderate republicans and democrats are for the most part willing to compromise and take the necessary steps to address the Nation’s economic issues. Democrats have exhibited a willingness to allow cuts and reform in social programs and entitlements; the TPM and conservative republicans alone have refused to budge on the issue of tax increases, which you yourself acknowledge as necessary for substantive debt reduction. The refusal on the part of the TPM and conservatives in Congress to even consider tax increases places the bulk of the blame on both.

This amateurish, maniacal obsession with the myth of ‘run-away government spending’ on the part of the TPM and conservative republicans and their consequent refusal to raise taxes was a significant factor in the decision to downgrade the debt.

 

[Salt Jones]

Do you people not realize that both political parties are at fault?

wow....whatta nice, little generic-complaint....in a Teabagger kind-o'-way.

You feelin' more-engaged (in the process), now?

I'm a hardcore black liberal, but I'm also a realist. I'm not the one.

 

[Salt Jones]

This back and forth blame game over the credit rating downgrade is just ridiculous. Democrats and Republicans in Congress, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush and Obama are all to blame. All Washington did was play the same "kick the can" bullshit that got us into this mess and now they point fingers at each other. Entitlements have to be reformed, revenue has to increase, tax loopholes need to be closed and everyone in DC knows this. But no one has the guts to take on their own side and fix it.

This board reflects the stupidity that takes place in Washington. The dozens of tit for tat threads are pointless. If we would have defaulted our credit rating would have been downgraded by everyone and the economy would sink even further. If we don't reform SS and Medicare we will sink even further. None of our political leaders are willing to do the hard work, they all just want to get reelected. I'm disgusted by the weakness of our "leaders" to fail to put America before Republican Party, Democratic Party or reelection.

Although I agree with this general assessment and spirit of the sentiment, an objective observer must concede the disruptive nature of TPM and GOP conservative extremists. Moderate republicans and democrats are for the most part willing to compromise and take the necessary steps to address the Nation’s economic issues. Democrats have exhibited a willingness to allow cuts and reform in social programs and entitlements; the TPM and conservative republicans alone have refused to budge on the issue of tax increases, which you yourself acknowledge as necessary for substantive debt reduction. The refusal on the part of the TPM and conservatives in Congress to even consider tax increases places the bulk of the blame on both.

This amateurish, maniacal obsession with the myth of ‘run-away government spending’ on the part of the TMP and conservative republicans and their consequent refusal to raise taxes was a significant factor in the decision to downgrade the debt.

Would closing tax loopholes and ending the bush tax cuts on high earners cover the increasing costs of SS and Medicare? Why are so many Congressional democrats outraged over the medicare provider pay cuts possible from the debt deal?

 

[lilbug]

This back and forth blame game over the credit rating downgrade is just ridiculous. Democrats and Republicans in Congress, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush and Obama are all to blame. All Washington did was play the same "kick the can" bullshit that got us into this mess and now they point fingers at each other. Entitlements have to be reformed, revenue has to increase, tax loopholes need to be closed and everyone in DC knows this. But no one has the guts to take on their own side and fix it.

This board reflects the stupidity that takes place in Washington. The dozens of tit for tat threads are pointless. If we would have defaulted our credit rating would have been downgraded by everyone and the economy would sink even further. If we don't reform SS and Medicare we will sink even further. None of our political leaders are willing to do the hard work, they all just want to get reelected. I'm disgusted by the weakness of our "leaders" to fail to put America before Republican Party, Democratic Party or reelection.

Fuck them all!

I absolutely agree, but some folks are so steadfastly loyal to their side with their tunnel vision, they will never come to see this. I don't know that it's a matter of "guts" , but has more do with personal agendas, their political careers and the fact all of them are so pampered and privilege they haven't got a clue about the struggles of regular folks....no matter how many times they claim they do. If that were really true, then at least some of them would locate their little hangy down things and do what it takes to fix things and make sure we never travel down this road again.

 

[Salt Jones]

This back and forth blame game over the credit rating downgrade is just ridiculous. Democrats and Republicans in Congress, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush and Obama are all to blame. All Washington did was play the same "kick the can" bullshit that got us into this mess and now they point fingers at each other. Entitlements have to be reformed, revenue has to increase, tax loopholes need to be closed and everyone in DC knows this. But no one has the guts to take on their own side and fix it.

This board reflects the stupidity that takes place in Washington. The dozens of tit for tat threads are pointless. If we would have defaulted our credit rating would have been downgraded by everyone and the economy would sink even further. If we don't reform SS and Medicare we will sink even further. None of our political leaders are willing to do the hard work, they all just want to get reelected. I'm disgusted by the weakness of our "leaders" to fail to put America before Republican Party, Democratic Party or reelection.

Fuck them all!

I absolutely agree, but some folks are so steadfastly loyal to their side with their tunnel vision, they will never come to see this. I don't know that it's a matter of "guts" , but has more do with personal agendas, their political careers and the fact all of them are so pampered and privilege they haven't got a clue about the struggles of regular folks....no matter how many times they claim they do. If that were really true, then at least some of them would locate their little hangy down things and do what it takes to fix things and make sure we never travel down this road again.

What it takes to "fix things" might not be what it takes to get reelected or get campaign cash from the lobbyists.

 

[Oddball]

So, bush increasing the debt from 5 to 10.5 trillion, passing unfunded Medicare Part D, Tarp, and 2 non-budgeted wars has no blame? I'm not absolving democrats of blame, I'm saying they all (R&D) share, equally, 100% of the blame.

Didn't say that...In fact, I ripped the hell out of the Shrub and his LBJ-ish policies on a regular basis...Ask anyone who knows me.

However, he has been out of office for 2 1/2 years and his replacement has doubled down on those idiotic and doomed-to-fail policies.

Yet, somehow or another, Boiking, through the mystical powers of hopey-changey, is supposed to make chicken soup out of chicken shit?

But the cost of Bush's programs have still been accumulating for the past 2.5 years. Obama's first and biggest mistake was bringing in the same guys who were so blind to the initial market/housing crash. Instead of building a "Team of Rivals" he should have been building a team of people who weren't tainted by wall street/fed and could get things done.

But nothing.

Boiking has doubled down on the same idiotic policies of his predecessor, and all you can say is "yeahbut"?

Hooobooie.

 

[Bfgrn]

This back and forth blame game over the credit rating downgrade is just ridiculous. Democrats and Republicans in Congress, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush and Obama are all to blame. All Washington did was play the same "kick the can" bullshit that got us into this mess and now they point fingers at each other. Entitlements have to be reformed, revenue has to increase, tax loopholes need to be closed and everyone in DC knows this. But no one has the guts to take on their own side and fix it.

This board reflects the stupidity that takes place in Washington. The dozens of tit for tat threads are pointless. If we would have defaulted our credit rating would have been downgraded by everyone and the economy would sink even further. If we don't reform SS and Medicare we will sink even further. None of our political leaders are willing to do the hard work, they all just want to get reelected. I'm disgusted by the weakness of our "leaders" to fail to put America before Republican Party, Democratic Party or reelection.

Fuck them all!

All of this is an extension of what Dead Beat Bush started and carried out for 8 years. Obama is just the scape goat. Then the T-Bagger put the salt on the wound.
There are no new entitlements and they have always been around and the spending relatively the same except the job loss led to unemployment and tax cuts led to lost revenue. Sound like the Bush era to me.

Obama is not "just the scape goat". He is as much at fault as Bush. SS and Medicare are growing faster then the GDP. Baby Boomers are going to overwhelm the system and Democrats are whining about medicare providers possibly having to take a cut. Republicans are signing no tax pledges when tax rates and revenues are at 50 year lows. Both sides are full of shit.

Actually Obama IS a scapegoat, even though he is a coward who should have called what the Teapublicans did extortion, which it was.

Obama and the Democrats DID put the debt on a manageable course. BUT, the Teapublicans want to undermine it to protect the rich from even mild tax increases. The CBO report makes it clear...CRYSTAL

First, let's HEAR what S&P said to explain the downgrade:

Some excerpts from the release:

[...]The political brinksmanship of recent months highlights what we see as America’s governance and policymaking becoming less stable, less effective, and less predictable than what we previously believed. The statutory debt ceiling and the threat of default have become political bargaining chips in the debate over fiscal policy.

[...]It appears that for now, new revenues have dropped down on the menu of policy options.

[...]The act contains no measures to raise taxes or otherwise enhance revenues, though the committee could recommend them.

[...]Compared with previous projections, our revised base case scenario now assumes that the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, due to expire by the end of 2012, remain in place. We have changed our assumption on this because the majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues, a position we believe Congress reinforced by passing the act.

Standard & Poors indicates that they could improve their rating for the U.S. if “the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts for high earners lapse from 2013 onwards, as the Administration is advocating.”ref

WHAT S&P is saying is that the CBO's debt projection has now taken the path of the Alternative Fiscal Scenario, which is extending the Bush tax cuts, repeal or undermining of the cost cutting measures in the Affordable Healthcare Act and more Republican corporate ass licking.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CBO’s Analysis

The Extended-Baseline Scenario. Under this scenario, the expiration of the tax cuts enacted since 2001 and most recently extended in 2010, the growing reach of the alternative minimum tax, the tax provisions of the recent health care legislation, and the way in which the tax system interacts with economic growth would result in steadily higher revenues relative to GDP.

The Alternative Fiscal Scenario. The budget outlook is much bleaker under the alternative fiscal scenario, which incorporates very different assumptions about revenues: that the tax cuts enacted since 2001 and extended most recently in 2010 will be extended; that the reach of the alternative minimum tax will be restrained to stay close to its historical extent; and that over the longer run, tax law will evolve further so that revenues remain near their historical average of 18 percent of GDP.

This scenario also reflects the assumptions that Medicare’s payment rates for physicians will remain at current levels (rather than declining by about a third, as under current law) and that some policies enacted in the March 2010 health care legislation to restrain growth in federal health care spending will not continue after 2021. In addition, the alternative scenario includes an assumption that spending on activities other than the major mandatory health care programs, Social Security, and interest on the debt will not fall quite as low as under the extended-baseline scenario.

With significantly lower revenues and higher outlays, debt held by the public would grow much more rapidly than under the extended-baseline scenario, reaching levels far above any ever experienced in U.S. history.

 

[Bfgrn]

This back and forth blame game over the credit rating downgrade is just ridiculous. Democrats and Republicans in Congress, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush and Obama are all to blame. All Washington did was play the same "kick the can" bullshit that got us into this mess and now they point fingers at each other. Entitlements have to be reformed, revenue has to increase, tax loopholes need to be closed and everyone in DC knows this. But no one has the guts to take on their own side and fix it.

This board reflects the stupidity that takes place in Washington. The dozens of tit for tat threads are pointless. If we would have defaulted our credit rating would have been downgraded by everyone and the economy would sink even further. If we don't reform SS and Medicare we will sink even further. None of our political leaders are willing to do the hard work, they all just want to get reelected. I'm disgusted by the weakness of our "leaders" to fail to put America before Republican Party, Democratic Party or reelection.

Fuck them all!

All of this is an extension of what Dead Beat Bush started and carried out for 8 years. Obama is just the scape goat. Then the T-Bagger put the salt on the wound.
There are no new entitlements and they have always been around and the spending relatively the same except the job loss led to unemployment and tax cuts led to lost revenue. Sound like the Bush era to me.

Obama is not "just the scape goat". He is as much at fault as Bush. SS and Medicare are growing faster then the GDP. Baby Boomers are going to overwhelm the system and Democrats are whining about medicare providers possibly having to take a cut. Republicans are signing no tax pledges when tax rates and revenues are at 50 year lows. Both sides are full of shit.

Actually Obama IS a scapegoat, even though he is a coward who should have called what the Teapublicans did extortion, which it was.

Obama and the Democrats DID put the debt on a manageable course. BUT, the Teapublicans want to undermine it to protect the rich from even mild tax increases. The CBO report makes it clear...CRYSTAL

First, let's HEAR what S&P said to explain the downgrade:

Some excerpts from the release:

[...]The political brinksmanship of recent months highlights what we see as America’s governance and policymaking becoming less stable, less effective, and less predictable than what we previously believed. The statutory debt ceiling and the threat of default have become political bargaining chips in the debate over fiscal policy.

[...]It appears that for now, new revenues have dropped down on the menu of policy options.

[...]The act contains no measures to raise taxes or otherwise enhance revenues, though the committee could recommend them.

[...]Compared with previous projections, our revised base case scenario now assumes that the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, due to expire by the end of 2012, remain in place. We have changed our assumption on this because the majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues, a position we believe Congress reinforced by passing the act.

Standard & Poors indicates that they could improve their rating for the U.S. if “the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts for high earners lapse from 2013 onwards, as the Administration is advocating.”ref
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WHAT S&P is saying is that the CBO's debt projection has now taken the path of the Alternative Fiscal Scenario, which is extending the Bush tax cuts, repeal or undermining of the cost cutting measures in the Affordable Healthcare Act and more Republican corporate ass licking.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CBO’s Analysis

The Extended-Baseline Scenario. Under this scenario, the expiration of the tax cuts enacted since 2001 and most recently extended in 2010, the growing reach of the alternative minimum tax, the tax provisions of the recent health care legislation, and the way in which the tax system interacts with economic growth would result in steadily higher revenues relative to GDP.

The Alternative Fiscal Scenario. The budget outlook is much bleaker under the alternative fiscal scenario, which incorporates very different assumptions about revenues: that the tax cuts enacted since 2001 and extended most recently in 2010 will be extended; that the reach of the alternative minimum tax will be restrained to stay close to its historical extent; and that over the longer run, tax law will evolve further so that revenues remain near their historical average of 18 percent of GDP.

This scenario also reflects the assumptions that Medicare’s payment rates for physicians will remain at current levels (rather than declining by about a third, as under current law) and that some policies enacted in the March 2010 health care legislation to restrain growth in federal health care spending will not continue after 2021. In addition, the alternative scenario includes an assumption that spending on activities other than the major mandatory health care programs, Social Security, and interest on the debt will not fall quite as low as under the extended-baseline scenario.

With significantly lower revenues and higher outlays, debt held by the public would grow much more rapidly than under the extended-baseline scenario, reaching levels far above any ever experienced in U.S. history.

 

[Avorysuds]

You will find that for the most part the "righties" not all but most admit that Bush and the Republican congress under him are very much part of the problem. However it is the left at this point who seem to just now admit Obama's polices are a big part of the problem too...

When in debate watch as many have to over and over admit that yes the Reps are part of the problem but Obama is in the white house and the Dems owned the Senate/House for the last 4 years and still today own the Senate. Then watch the more Obama-bot Dems claim it is near if not all the Republicans fault that for the last 3 years with Obama and 4 years with the House/Senate in Dem control it is in fact all republicans and Bush's fault that the Dem's can't "fix" anything...

Watch RW/Zona/Chris/shaman/rtard and Tm all claim the minority in the house's Republicans held the country hostage by not voting yes on bill they said would just get the US credit downgraded.

In the end it’s a stupid circle fight and I’m already done with it because as I have said Obama will be taking much of the blame along with Bush. People (the american public) will see that Big Government is Big Government no matter how you slice it. It’s all expansions and no repeals. We need real leaders that can shrink Government and Obama/Bush were one in the same, they both grew grew grew.

Obama is in big trouble, just like Bush was hated so will Obama be.

 

[Salt Jones]

Didn't say that...In fact, I ripped the hell out of the Shrub and his LBJ-ish policies on a regular basis...Ask anyone who knows me.

However, he has been out of office for 2 1/2 years and his replacement has doubled down on those idiotic and doomed-to-fail policies.

Yet, somehow or another, Boiking, through the mystical powers of hopey-changey, is supposed to make chicken soup out of chicken shit?

But the cost of Bush's programs have still been accumulating for the past 2.5 years. Obama's first and biggest mistake was bringing in the same guys who were so blind to the initial market/housing crash. Instead of building a "Team of Rivals" he should have been building a team of people who weren't tainted by wall street/fed and could get things done.

But nothing.

Boiking has doubled down on the same idiotic policies of his predecessor, and all you can say is "yeahbut"?

Hooobooie.

This is more than "yeahbut".

"But the cost of Bush's programs have still been accumulating for the past 2.5 years. Obama's first and biggest mistake was bringing in the same guys who were so blind to the initial market/housing crash. Instead of building a "Team of Rivals" he should have been building a team of people who weren't tainted by wall street/fed and could get things done."

Obama should have let the bush tax cuts expire for all Americans and he should have ended Iraq and Afghanistan wars. He should have lifted the $107K cap on SSI taxes and changed the age limits on both SS and Medicare. He didn't and congress wouldn't have any bills if he tried, but he didn't try and congress didn't try because lobbying firms have more sway then the American public. It's why this super congress will cave to the lobbyist. Any defense cuts made will be replaced with "emergency" funds. The same "emergency" funds that bush used for 7 years and congress will approve just like they did for 7 years.

 

[Salt Jones]

All of this is an extension of what Dead Beat Bush started and carried out for 8 years. Obama is just the scape goat. Then the T-Bagger put the salt on the wound.
There are no new entitlements and they have always been around and the spending relatively the same except the job loss led to unemployment and tax cuts led to lost revenue. Sound like the Bush era to me.

Obama is not "just the scape goat". He is as much at fault as Bush. SS and Medicare are growing faster then the GDP. Baby Boomers are going to overwhelm the system and Democrats are whining about medicare providers possibly having to take a cut. Republicans are signing no tax pledges when tax rates and revenues are at 50 year lows. Both sides are full of shit.

Actually Obama IS a scapegoat, even though he is a coward who should have called what the Teapublicans did extortion, which it was.

Obama and the Democrats DID put the debt on a manageable course. BUT, the Teapublicans want to undermine it to protect the rich from even mild tax increases. The CBO report makes it clear...CRYSTAL

First, let's HEAR what S&P said to explain the downgrade:

Some excerpts from the release:

[...]The political brinksmanship of recent months highlights what we see as America’s governance and policymaking becoming less stable, less effective, and less predictable than what we previously believed. The statutory debt ceiling and the threat of default have become political bargaining chips in the debate over fiscal policy.

[...]It appears that for now, new revenues have dropped down on the menu of policy options.

[...]The act contains no measures to raise taxes or otherwise enhance revenues, though the committee could recommend them.

[...]Compared with previous projections, our revised base case scenario now assumes that the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, due to expire by the end of 2012, remain in place. We have changed our assumption on this because the majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues, a position we believe Congress reinforced by passing the act.

Standard & Poors indicates that they could improve their rating for the U.S. if “the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts for high earners lapse from 2013 onwards, as the Administration is advocating.”ref

WHAT S&P is saying is that the CBO's debt projection has now taken the path of the Alternative Fiscal Scenario, which is extending the Bush tax cuts, repeal or undermining of the cost cutting measures in the Affordable Healthcare Act and more Republican corporate ass licking.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CBO’s Analysis

The Extended-Baseline Scenario. Under this scenario, the expiration of the tax cuts enacted since 2001 and most recently extended in 2010, the growing reach of the alternative minimum tax, the tax provisions of the recent health care legislation, and the way in which the tax system interacts with economic growth would result in steadily higher revenues relative to GDP.

The Alternative Fiscal Scenario. The budget outlook is much bleaker under the alternative fiscal scenario, which incorporates very different assumptions about revenues: that the tax cuts enacted since 2001 and extended most recently in 2010 will be extended; that the reach of the alternative minimum tax will be restrained to stay close to its historical extent; and that over the longer run, tax law will evolve further so that revenues remain near their historical average of 18 percent of GDP.

This scenario also reflects the assumptions that Medicare’s payment rates for physicians will remain at current levels (rather than declining by about a third, as under current law) and that some policies enacted in the March 2010 health care legislation to restrain growth in federal health care spending will not continue after 2021. In addition, the alternative scenario includes an assumption that spending on activities other than the major mandatory health care programs, Social Security, and interest on the debt will not fall quite as low as under the extended-baseline scenario.

With significantly lower revenues and higher outlays, debt held by the public would grow much more rapidly than under the extended-baseline scenario, reaching levels far above any ever experienced in U.S. history.

If you have 2 options in front of you and make an informed decision to choose the wrong path, then you are not a "scapegoat". You are a willing participant.

 

[Oddball]

But the cost of Bush's programs have still been accumulating for the past 2.5 years. Obama's first and biggest mistake was bringing in the same guys who were so blind to the initial market/housing crash. Instead of building a "Team of Rivals" he should have been building a team of people who weren't tainted by wall street/fed and could get things done.

But nothing.

Boiking has doubled down on the same idiotic policies of his predecessor, and all you can say is "yeahbut"?

Hooobooie.

This is more than "yeahbut".

"But the cost of Bush's programs have still been accumulating for the past 2.5 years. Obama's first and biggest mistake was bringing in the same guys who were so blind to the initial market/housing crash. Instead of building a "Team of Rivals" he should have been building a team of people who weren't tainted by wall street/fed and could get things done."

Obama should have let the bush tax cuts expire for all Americans and he should have ended Iraq and Afghanistan wars. He should have lifted the $107K cap on SSI taxes and changed the age limits on both SS and Medicare. He didn't and congress wouldn't have any bills if he tried, but he didn't try and congress didn't try because lobbying firms have more sway then the American public. It's why this super congress will cave to the lobbyist. Any defense cuts made will be replaced with "emergency" funds. The same "emergency" funds that bush used for 7 years and congress will approve just like they did for 7 years.

I don't give a flying fuck about the Shrub anymore...His eight-year disaster is in the rear view mirror.

The fact remains that Barry Obolshevik has not only not reversed that disastrous course, he's actually stepping on the accelerator and steering for outright catastrophe.


And all blind partisans like you can say "yeahbut GEORGE BOOOOOOOOOSH!"

Talk about failure to recognize....

 

[Annie]

after the downgrade can you really trust what the Left says about finances and the economy
For example PapaObama Care was going to instantly create 400,000 jobs



‪Obamacare will create 400,000 jobs ALMOST IMMEDIATELY, says Choppy Hands McBotox‬‏ - YouTube

What percentage of Obamacare has taken effect?

It hasn't yet. Isn't that the problem indeed regarding debt, instability, and even employment numbers?

Passing Obamacare Stalled Recovery

Obamacare: No Prescription for Economic Recovery
James Sherk

July 20, 2011 at 5:15 pm

The economy is recovering at an unusually slow pace. Typically, employment grows strongly after a severe recession. Not this time. Unemployment remains stuck above 9 percent more than two years after the recession officially ended. What is going on?

Initially, the economy appeared on track for a steady recovery. The economy went from losing 841,000 jobs in January 2009—the recession’s low point—to gaining 229,000 jobs in April 2010. By the spring of 2010, the Administration confidently predicted a “Recovery Summer.”

But that spring, Congress also passed President Obama’s health care legislation. The law does not exactly encourage hiring.

* Businesses with more than 50 workers will see their costs for health coverage rise—they must purchase more expensive government-approved insurance or pay a penalty;
* Businesses with fewer than 50 workers have a strong incentive to maintain this size, to avoid these higher costs; and
* Employers face considerable uncertainty about what constitutes qualifying health coverage and what it will cost. They also do not know what the health care market or their health care costs will look like in four years. This makes planning for the future difficult.

Within two months of Obamacare’s passing, the recovery stalled. The chart above comes from a recent Heritage WebMemo and shows net private-sector job creation from January 2009 onward. The red line shows the trend in job creation before and after April 2010. Private-sector job creation improved by an average of 67,600 jobs per month before April 2010.

In May 2010, the job situation stopped improving. Job creation dropped to just 48,000 net private sector jobs, and private-sector hiring took a new course. From May 2010 onward, private job growth improved by only 6,500 jobs per month—less than one-tenth the previous rate.

The fact that the job market ground to a halt after Congress passed Obamacare does not prove that the health care law caused it—correlation cannot prove causation. It does, however, lend strong weight to the voices of businesses who say the law is strangling them.

In a recent survey, 33 percent of small business owners said the health care law was either their greatest or second-greatest obstacle to new hiring. Federal Reserve officials report similar concerns. The data suggest these businesses are not just blowing steam. The health care law has proven to be no prescription for recovery.

Links at site.

Then there is the debt problem from this boondoggle of a plan, the CBO has stated that it will add to debt, though through the 'trust funding' it appears to be a savings, it's actually charged onto the rest of the 'debt.' :

http://cbo.gov/ftpdocs/110xx/doc11005/01-22-HI_Fund.pdf

And reduced employment as testified to by head of CBO:

CBO: Health law to shrink workforce by 800,000 - J. Lester Feder and Kate Nocera - POLITICO.com

 

[Full-Auto]

All of this is an extension of what Dead Beat Bush started and carried out for 8 years. Obama is just the scape goat. Then the T-Bagger put the salt on the wound.
There are no new entitlements and they have always been around and the spending relatively the same except the job loss led to unemployment and tax cuts led to lost revenue. Sound like the Bush era to me.

The poor little scape goat, The one that followed GWs policies and doubled down, then started many of his own, Like killing business at every opportunity.

If business is "killed" why are profits up? What business has scaled back making goods? Are the costs of consumer goods increasing? Is there inflation?

Wall street was doing extremely well, even engaged in hiring. Will see if that continues.

Keep giving cronies money, they show increased profits. Bail out banks and magically they show profits the following quarter.

Government is the number one driver of inflation.

 

[McDowell's]

All of this is an extension of what Dead Beat Bush started and carried out for 8 years. Obama is just the scape goat. Then the T-Bagger put the salt on the wound.
There are no new entitlements and they have always been around and the spending relatively the same except the job loss led to unemployment and tax cuts led to lost revenue. Sound like the Bush era to me.

Obama is not "just the scape goat". He is as much at fault as Bush. SS and Medicare are growing faster then the GDP. Baby Boomers are going to overwhelm the system and Democrats are whining about medicare providers possibly having to take a cut. Republicans are signing no tax pledges when tax rates and revenues are at 50 year lows. Both sides are full of shit.

Actually Obama IS a scapegoat, even though he is a coward who should have called what the Teapublicans did extortion, which it was.

Obama and the Democrats DID put the debt on a manageable course. BUT, the Teapublicans want to undermine it to protect the rich from even mild tax increases. The CBO report makes it clear...CRYSTAL

First, let's HEAR what S&P said to explain the downgrade:

Some excerpts from the release:

[...]The political brinksmanship of recent months highlights what we see as America’s governance and policymaking becoming less stable, less effective, and less predictable than what we previously believed. The statutory debt ceiling and the threat of default have become political bargaining chips in the debate over fiscal policy.

[...]It appears that for now, new revenues have dropped down on the menu of policy options.

[...]The act contains no measures to raise taxes or otherwise enhance revenues, though the committee could recommend them.

[...]Compared with previous projections, our revised base case scenario now assumes that the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, due to expire by the end of 2012, remain in place. We have changed our assumption on this because the majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues, a position we believe Congress reinforced by passing the act.

Standard & Poors indicates that they could improve their rating for the U.S. if “the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts for high earners lapse from 2013 onwards, as the Administration is advocating.”ref
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WHAT S&P is saying is that the CBO's debt projection has now taken the path of the Alternative Fiscal Scenario, which is extending the Bush tax cuts, repeal or undermining of the cost cutting measures in the Affordable Healthcare Act and more Republican corporate ass licking.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CBO’s Analysis

The Extended-Baseline Scenario. Under this scenario, the expiration of the tax cuts enacted since 2001 and most recently extended in 2010, the growing reach of the alternative minimum tax, the tax provisions of the recent health care legislation, and the way in which the tax system interacts with economic growth would result in steadily higher revenues relative to GDP.

The Alternative Fiscal Scenario. The budget outlook is much bleaker under the alternative fiscal scenario, which incorporates very different assumptions about revenues: that the tax cuts enacted since 2001 and extended most recently in 2010 will be extended; that the reach of the alternative minimum tax will be restrained to stay close to its historical extent; and that over the longer run, tax law will evolve further so that revenues remain near their historical average of 18 percent of GDP.

This scenario also reflects the assumptions that Medicare’s payment rates for physicians will remain at current levels (rather than declining by about a third, as under current law) and that some policies enacted in the March 2010 health care legislation to restrain growth in federal health care spending will not continue after 2021. In addition, the alternative scenario includes an assumption that spending on activities other than the major mandatory health care programs, Social Security, and interest on the debt will not fall quite as low as under the extended-baseline scenario.

With significantly lower revenues and higher outlays, debt held by the public would grow much more rapidly than under the extended-baseline scenario, reaching levels far above any ever experienced in U.S. history.

The same press release you cherry picked from also says:

Standard & Poor’s takes no position on the mix of spending and revenue measures that Congress and the Administration might conclude is appropriate for putting the U.S.’s finances on a sustainable footing.

S&P could give two fucks less about whether the deficit is reduced through spending cuts or increased tax revenues. The bottom line is that the deficit was not reduced by an amount that S&P deemed necessary.

A partisan hack on the other side could just as easily cherry pick all the portions of the release that mention the inability of our government to make hard decisions on controlling entitlement spending.

 

[Salt Jones]

You will find that for the most part the "righties" not all but most admit that Bush and the Republican congress under him are very much part of the problem. However it is the left at this point who seem to just now admit Obama's polices are a big part of the problem too...

When in debate watch as many have to over and over admit that yes the Reps are part of the problem but Obama is in the white house and the Dems owned the Senate/House for the last 4 years and still today own the Senate. Then watch the more Obama-bot Dems claim it is near if not all the Republicans fault that for the last 3 years with Obama and 4 years with the House/Senate in Dem control it is in fact all republicans and Bush's fault that the Dem's can't "fix" anything...

Watch RW/Zona/Chris/shaman/rtard and Tm all claim the minority in the house's Republicans held the country hostage by not voting yes on bill they said would just get the US credit downgraded.

In the end it’s a stupid circle fight and I’m already done with it because as I have said Obama will be taking much of the blame along with Bush. People (the american public) will see that Big Government is Big Government no matter how you slice it. It’s all expansions and no repeals. We need real leaders that can shrink Government and Obama/Bush were one in the same, they both grew grew grew.

Obama is in big trouble, just like Bush was hated so will Obama be.

The tea party house republicans did hold the country hostage, McConnell admitted it. They claimed that default wouldn't be bad and now claim that Obama is at fault for destroying the credit worthiness of America. What do they thing default or partial shutdown with no debt bill would have done?

Obama is in trouble, but I don't see a republican that can beat him. The ones that could on fiscal policies are too socially liberal to win the nomination.

 

[Salt Jones]

Obama is not "just the scape goat". He is as much at fault as Bush. SS and Medicare are growing faster then the GDP. Baby Boomers are going to overwhelm the system and Democrats are whining about medicare providers possibly having to take a cut. Republicans are signing no tax pledges when tax rates and revenues are at 50 year lows. Both sides are full of shit.

Actually Obama IS a scapegoat, even though he is a coward who should have called what the Teapublicans did extortion, which it was.

Obama and the Democrats DID put the debt on a manageable course. BUT, the Teapublicans want to undermine it to protect the rich from even mild tax increases. The CBO report makes it clear...CRYSTAL

First, let's HEAR what S&P said to explain the downgrade:

Some excerpts from the release:

[...]The political brinksmanship of recent months highlights what we see as America’s governance and policymaking becoming less stable, less effective, and less predictable than what we previously believed. The statutory debt ceiling and the threat of default have become political bargaining chips in the debate over fiscal policy.

[...]It appears that for now, new revenues have dropped down on the menu of policy options.

[...]The act contains no measures to raise taxes or otherwise enhance revenues, though the committee could recommend them.

[...]Compared with previous projections, our revised base case scenario now assumes that the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, due to expire by the end of 2012, remain in place. We have changed our assumption on this because the majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues, a position we believe Congress reinforced by passing the act.

Standard & Poors indicates that they could improve their rating for the U.S. if “the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts for high earners lapse from 2013 onwards, as the Administration is advocating.”ref
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WHAT S&P is saying is that the CBO's debt projection has now taken the path of the Alternative Fiscal Scenario, which is extending the Bush tax cuts, repeal or undermining of the cost cutting measures in the Affordable Healthcare Act and more Republican corporate ass licking.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CBO’s Analysis

The Extended-Baseline Scenario. Under this scenario, the expiration of the tax cuts enacted since 2001 and most recently extended in 2010, the growing reach of the alternative minimum tax, the tax provisions of the recent health care legislation, and the way in which the tax system interacts with economic growth would result in steadily higher revenues relative to GDP.

The Alternative Fiscal Scenario. The budget outlook is much bleaker under the alternative fiscal scenario, which incorporates very different assumptions about revenues: that the tax cuts enacted since 2001 and extended most recently in 2010 will be extended; that the reach of the alternative minimum tax will be restrained to stay close to its historical extent; and that over the longer run, tax law will evolve further so that revenues remain near their historical average of 18 percent of GDP.

This scenario also reflects the assumptions that Medicare’s payment rates for physicians will remain at current levels (rather than declining by about a third, as under current law) and that some policies enacted in the March 2010 health care legislation to restrain growth in federal health care spending will not continue after 2021. In addition, the alternative scenario includes an assumption that spending on activities other than the major mandatory health care programs, Social Security, and interest on the debt will not fall quite as low as under the extended-baseline scenario.

With significantly lower revenues and higher outlays, debt held by the public would grow much more rapidly than under the extended-baseline scenario, reaching levels far above any ever experienced in U.S. history.

The same press release you cherry picked from also says:

Standard & Poor’s takes no position on the mix of spending and revenue measures that Congress and the Administration might conclude is appropriate for putting the U.S.’s finances on a sustainable footing.

S&P could give two fucks less about whether the deficit is reduced through spending cuts or increased tax revenues. The bottom line is that the deficit was not reduced by an amount that S&P deemed necessary.

A partisan hack on the other side could just as easily cherry pick all the portions of the release that mention the inability of our government to make hard decisions on controlling entitlement spending.

Wrong:

"On the other hand, as our upside scenario highlights, if the recommendations of the Congressional Joint Select Committee on Deficit Reduction--independently or coupled with
other initiatives, such as the lapsing of the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts for high earners--lead to fiscal consolidation measures beyond the minimum mandated, and we believe they are likely to slow the deterioration of the government's debt dynamics, the long-term rating could stabilize at 'AA+'."

Take the games somewhere else.

 

[hortysir]

<snip>
[...]The political brinksmanship of recent months highlights what we see as America’s governance and policymaking becoming less stable, less effective, and less predictable than what we previously believed. <snip>

This is what I thought was the most telling of the entire piece.
It describes exactly what is stagnating our growth.

Nothing can grow in that kind of enviroment.

 

[Oddball]

The tea party house republicans did hold the country hostage, McConnell admitted it. They claimed that default wouldn't be bad and now claim that Obama is at fault for destroying the credit worthiness of America. What do they thing default or partial shutdown with no debt bill would have done?

For no less than the last decade, McConnell has been (correctly) derided as one of the biggest GOP party man douchebagge tools in the Senate...Now he suddenly has credibility with the left?

As failure to realize marches on.....

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Both parties are responsible for creating the debt.

ONE PARTY IS RESPONSIBLE FOR BLOCKING THE ONLY PLAN THAT COULD HAVE CORRECTED IT.