Do You Live In a Pro America State?

[N4mddissent]

But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there's not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Really? You're going to compare the statements above to suggesting that some states are Pro-America and thereby implying others are not?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Really? You're going to compare the statements above to suggesting that some states are Pro-America and thereby implying others are not?

Sure am, in fact I am going to say it is worse. Palin said nothing about ANY other area. Obama did. He specifically called rural areas bigots, racists and nut jobs.

 

[N4mddissent]

Sure am, in fact I am going to say it is worse. Palin said nothing about ANY other area. Obama did. He specifically called rural areas bigots, racists and nut jobs.

Then become literate and try again.

 

[Diuretic]

Diuretic,

Here's what I think has happened. At some point the conservative elite decided to go all out against the left. It probably started back during the red scare, but I haven't been following that long. They developed a strategy of demonizing rather than disagreeing with opponents. It's a lot easier to paint someone in a bad light than to rationally defend one's views in reasonable discussion. Why argue reasonably when you can just call each other names?

In the short run, it seemed to work. Once the echo chamber was going full swing, the strategy immediately began paying dividends. A less informed American public began to soak up this endless stream of fear-mongering, hate, and spite directed at their opponents. But we don't require an IQ test for public office in the U.S. And suddenly, in an environment where you have your conservative "stars" publishing best-selling books with titles like "Treason: Liberal Treachery from the Cold War to the War on Terrorism", "Deliver Us from Evil: Defeating Terrorism, Despotism, and Liberalism", and "The Enemy Within: Saving America from the Liberal Assault on Our Churches, Schools, and Military" you have a great many conservatives, including those who may be in office, buying their own propoganda. Then there is no reasonable discourse, but instead have created a conservative ideology with fanatics as loyal and unreasonable as any religious fundamentalist (especially when it is intertwined with pre-established religious ideology- but that's another post). Now, we are seeing some of the elite conservative intellectuals who I don't believe were fully aware of the monster they were creating, starting to try to turn down the intensity. But what they fail to realize is that when you feed propoganda to the masses in a democracy, those that buy it are going to elect and support others who buy it and the moderates who initially benefited from this approach find that their power is slipping away and there is nothing they can do to control it.

Interesting analysis N4 - bit depressing but interesting.

 

[N4mddissent]

Interesting analysis N4 - bit depressing but interesting.

depressing, eh? Try living in it.

 

[Diuretic]

depressing, eh? Try living in it.

Cheer up. This is my prediction.

Obama wins. He begins to rebuild. His vision, his plans are so clear, constructive and without a hint of partisanship that he engages Congress which throws its petty party politics aside and knuckles down with Obama to get the reconstruction job done. Times are tough but people are resiient, especially when they know there is no alternative but to grapple with reality. The madness of the Bush regime is gradually erased. Obama seeks a gradual withdrawal from Iraq and realises that Afghanistan is a failure and he negotiates a gradual withdrawal from Afghanistan (and everyone else in there agrees it's necessary).

Despite his destractors during the election campaign Obama completely eschews any hint of socialism. What he does do is repair capitalism with medicine from Dr Keynes. He prevails upon Congress to pass legislation which reasonably regulates capitalism, a move widely applauded by the survivors of laissez-faire capitalism. The new phrase is "practical capitalism", capitalism which works but which avoids the excesses of the free market theorists.

Obama's Secretary of State works on negotiating with the states designated by the Mad Bush Administration and achieves raprochement (part of the spin-off is that Frenchie-isms are no longer unaceptable). As a result of these new relationships Pakistan locates bin Laden and hands him over for trial in either New York, DC or Pennsylvania. The threat of terra-ism is over. Americans get their rights back and the rest of us feel we can visit without the threat of being tossed in the slammer because a comma is in the wrong place in our travel documentation. As a result tourism to the US reaches pre-Bush levels, assisting the local economy and creates better international relations.

So, there you are, you've got a lot to look forward to - it's all good from January 2009

 

[Diuretic]

Oh and Fox goes off the air, bankrupted

 

[Toro]

As opposed to a pro-Iranian state, for instance?

 

[Toro]

Yeah, seriously, how much research was done in choosing a running mate?

Very little.

I have been on the fence in this election but I'm leaning towards Obama because all the things the Bush team said in 2000 - that McCain is impetuous, that he is hot-tempered, and that he doesn't have the temperament to be President - seem to be coming out. I wanted McCain to be President in 2000, but I am having doubts about him now. I think Palin was picked with very little vetting relative to what one would expect in such a process.

Frankly, the best reason to vote for McCain that I can see is so the Democrats don't utterly control everything. After seeing the staggering incompetence of the Republicans when they controlled everything from 2002 to 2006, gridlock may be America's best option, especially since the Dems are going to be pushing a filibuster-busting 60 seats in the Senate.

 

[N4mddissent]

Frankly, the best reason to vote for McCain that I can see is so the Democrats don't utterly control everything. After seeing the staggering incompetence of the Republicans when they controlled everything from 2002 to 2006, gridlock may be America's best option, especially since the Dems are going to be pushing a filibuster-busting 60 seats in the Senate.

A couple of things to consider toro, since you seem like a reasonable guy.
1) A democratic majority in both houses and in the white house may result in gridlock anyway. Democrats don't tend to march in lock-step as often as republicans. Take for example the primaries. Once it became fairly clear McCain had a lead, the rest stepped down, even prior to being mathmatically eliminated. Democrats fought tooth and nail after it was over in all but name. Also, when they won their recent majority they did it by bringing in several moderate or some may say conservative democrats. Any future gains will likely include some as well. In conservative areas where the population is angry with republicans, they still will balk at electing a liberal democrat. These democrats may have a moderating effect on the congress. Finally, there is the possiblity of the strength of a democratic majority being somewhat weakened depending on cabinet selection by the President. Jim Webb comes to mind, the senator from Virginia. (I believe he was an assistant to the Secretary of Defense under Reagan, and I have speculated in my own mind that he may be tapped for Secretary of Defense)

2. You have to consider and decide for yourself which poses more of a threat, a minimum of 2 years of across the board democratic majority- or the potential threat of a Sarah Palin presidency.

I would personally council you to vote Republican for any senatorial or representative races if it makes you feel better, but please do not put that woman within ten feet of the White House.

Then again, I'm just another partisan hack.

 

[N4mddissent]

Cheer up. This is my prediction.

I can't help but think of the Clinton years. The economy was booming. We stopped genocide in former Yugoslavia, by cooperating with allies. We were able to control the enthnic cleansing and fighting, capture milosevic, and have a brilliant resolution with minimal casualties. Everything seemed to be going so well. Did it bring us together? No. They spent untold amounts of time trying to dig up information about whitewater, etc... until finally they were able to drag him through the mud about a blowjob from an intern, followed up by perjury charges because he tried to deny, and impeached the son of a bitch.

part of the spin-off is that Frenchie-isms are no longer unaceptable

Yeah, that whole episode was embarrassing to me. We have a treaty of perpetual friendship with France signed in the early days of American history. We even have a giant fucking statue in the middle of a harbour in New York to remind us of our past history together, but it seems like a lot of Americans tend to throw loyalty and honor under the bus too quickly these days and forget their roots because they see themselves at the top.

Pakistan locates bin Laden and hands him over for trial in either New York, DC or Pennsylvania.

You just know that if we find Bin Laden under an Obama presidency, that someone is going to start saying that he used his inside contacts in the muslim jihad to locate him.

I have no doubt that whatever level of success an Obama presidency manages, in the end he will be chewed up and spit out by the political machine. I feel like every election, we are just looking for someone to make that sacrifice to try to save our asses for just a little bit longer.

 

[pegwinn]

"pro american parts" of this country?

That is pure divisive hate talk. Bullshit. Hyperbole your name is Rayboyusmc.

Who defines who is pro american? The speaker of course

Sorry, but this is a lot worse than not being able to count or spell.

Does the old saw about mountains and molehills mean anything to you?

The term "pro american" is a totalitarian term in general.

More hyperbole

You might be confusing this with Murtha who claimed an entire section of Pennsylvania was racist.

At least he changed that tune. So far as I know he has refused to recant or apologise for slandering the Marines assigned to Haditha.

As to all the rest...... come on folks. This is a gaffe. Three letters, new-ku-ler, 57 states, and I see many of them in the audience, clingy guns, yadablahetc.

Personally, it doesn't matter who you elect. Obama and McCain are both nothing more than [dripping contempt]politicians[/dripping contempt].

 

[DutchAmerican]

I live in the great state of Illinois, aka the state where the next Prez of the USofA will be coming from. Moore believes we, along with New York and California are part of Canada, though.

Who cares anyway ... America sucks, it will just suck less with Obama!

 

[Luissa]

I am in Washington State which I think would be on the Republican’s “Anti-American States” list.

So you better watch out, we have 2 Carrier battle groups, a strategic bomber wing, 18 Ballistic Missile Submarines, one of the Country’s largest army bases and most of America’s aerospace production capacity.

So, you…Idaho….

Watch your back!

That is what I was thinking since Washington usually goes Blue thanks to the west side of the state, SPokane is more red but with about four million less people.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I can't help but think of the Clinton years. The economy was booming. We stopped genocide in former Yugoslavia, by cooperating with allies. We were able to control the enthnic cleansing and fighting, capture milosevic, and have a brilliant resolution with minimal casualties. Everything seemed to be going so well. Did it bring us together? No. They spent untold amounts of time trying to dig up information about whitewater, etc... until finally they were able to drag him through the mud about a blowjob from an intern, followed up by perjury charges because he tried to deny, and impeached the son of a bitch.


Yeah, that whole episode was embarrassing to me. We have a treaty of perpetual friendship with France signed in the early days of American history. We even have a giant fucking statue in the middle of a harbour in New York to remind us of our past history together, but it seems like a lot of Americans tend to throw loyalty and honor under the bus too quickly these days and forget their roots because they see themselves at the top.



You just know that if we find Bin Laden under an Obama presidency, that someone is going to start saying that he used his inside contacts in the muslim jihad to locate him.

I have no doubt that whatever level of success an Obama presidency manages, in the end he will be chewed up and spit out by the political machine. I feel like every election, we are just looking for someone to make that sacrifice to try to save our asses for just a little bit longer.

Clinton accomplished nothing, it was the Republican Congress that accomplished it all.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

That is what I was thinking since Washington usually goes Blue thanks to the west side of the state, SPokane is more red but with about four million less people.

King County is why. And as I recall your last Governor election was full of democratic fraud anyway. I was Born in Pullman, family still lives in Washington. I will never live there again, it is nothing more than a wannabe California.

 

[N4mddissent]

Clinton accomplished nothing, it was the Republican Congress that accomplished it all.

That's what you've got...I hope Republican talking points don't get caught up in the economic crunch and become scarce...you'd be a mute.

This was an exchange between diuretic and I and your comment is completely irrelevant to the point.

 

[strollingbones]

That's what you've got...I hope Republican talking points don't get caught up in the economic crunch and become scarce...you'd be a mute.

This was an exchange between diuretic and I and your comment is completely irrelevant to the point.

this is public messageboard. if you want an exchange that is just between you and diuretic perhaps private messages would be the way to go. I in no way agree with wht was said...but by now we all reconize that republicans take credit for all that is good and blame everything else on the democrats.
there continued mantra. "we is good, you is bad" has allowed them to support the likes of palin. A totally poor choice for vp of the us.

 

[editec]

Do you cling to guns and religion and fear people not like you? Remind how outraged you were about those comments?

Outraged?

You wish.

This woman is such an embarrassment to your Party, I'm pissing my pants laughing as I watch you poor sods trying to make excuses for her.

God I love this woman.

She is the quintessential spokeman for your party.

Stupid, ignorant, inarticulate, falsely patriotic, filled with fear and hate, racist, and all that neatly wrapped up in that sunshine patriots flag you guys salute.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

That's what you've got...I hope Republican talking points don't get caught up in the economic crunch and become scarce...you'd be a mute.

This was an exchange between diuretic and I and your comment is completely irrelevant to the point.

Wrong, Clinton accomplished NOTHING until the Congress was controlled by the Republicans and he went along with them.

The only Accomplishment he had was committing us to the Balkans, which I fully supported and still do. He surprised the crap out of me when he did it. I did not think he had the balls. He proved me wrong.