Do you know left wingers still blame the 2008 housing bubble on just Booooosh?

[edthecynic]

But, but, but repealing Glass-Steagall REDUCED regulation and the Right blames its repeal for the Bush Housing Crash!!!!!
How can it be that reduced regulation caused a bubble???

But, but, but repealing Glass-Steagall REDUCED regulation and the Right blames its repeal for the Bush Housing Crash!!!!!

Elizabeth Warren blames its repeal, is she on the right?
So does Bernie. He a righty?

Do you blame the repeal?

But, but, but she doesn't make the moronic claim that reduced regulation is good for the economy, now does she!!!!!!!! geeezzzz you fools are dense!!!

But, but, but she doesn't make the moronic claim that reduced regulation is good for the economy

She makes the moronic claim that increased regulation is good for the economy.
How many more regulations does Obama need to add to improve his weak economic growth?

Well, Bush's housing crash proves her right!

Which regulation would have prevented the housing crash? Be specific.

Ahhh yes, the perpetual dumb act! Which repealed law are we discussing in these posts? Figure that out and you have your answer!

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

But, but, but she doesn't make the moronic claim that reduced regulation is good for the economy

She makes the moronic claim that increased regulation is good for the economy.
How many more regulations does Obama need to add to improve his weak economic growth?

Well, Bush's housing crash proves her right!

Which regulation would have prevented the housing crash? Be specific.

Booooshie crony regulators enforcing regulations would have done it...totally corrupt just like the ones enforcing Big Oil regs (Remember THAT scandal?). It's the GOP way. All now WORKING for Big Oil, Wall St, lobbyists.

Booooshie crony regulators enforcing regulations would have done it

Which regulation, if enforced, would have done it?

just like the ones enforcing Big Oil regs (Remember THAT scandal?).

Remind me.

Bush Cronyism - foxes guarding the henhous
www.oldamericancentury.org/bushco/cronyism.htm
Vice-president Dick Cheney, who chairs the White House Energy Policy .... A former oil and coallobbyist, J. Steven Griles violated recusal agreements in order to ... Bush administration official convicted in the Jack Abramoff lobbying scandal.
There Will Be Blood | Mother Jones
www.motherjones.com/politics/2010/05/bp-bill-nelson-oil-spill
Mother Jones
May 5, 2010 - With the Deepwater Horizon oil spill shaping up to be a calamity of historic ... referring to the 2008 scandal in a Colorado regional MMS office in which it ... by enhanced safety measures, stretch back to the George W. Bush years. During that era, Interior became a revolving door haven for industry lobbyists.


Regulating AIG: Who Fell Asleep On The Job? : NPR
www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=104979546
NPR
Jun 5, 2009 - Like other regulators, the OTS courts its eventual clients, who pay the ... The standard line on what went wrong at AIG, the insurance giant ...

Thanks for the links.
So which regulation, if enforced, would have stopped the housing crash?
Which oil regs weren't enforced?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

But, but, but repealing Glass-Steagall REDUCED regulation and the Right blames its repeal for the Bush Housing Crash!!!!!

Elizabeth Warren blames its repeal, is she on the right?
So does Bernie. He a righty?

Do you blame the repeal?

But, but, but she doesn't make the moronic claim that reduced regulation is good for the economy, now does she!!!!!!!! geeezzzz you fools are dense!!!

But, but, but she doesn't make the moronic claim that reduced regulation is good for the economy

She makes the moronic claim that increased regulation is good for the economy.
How many more regulations does Obama need to add to improve his weak economic growth?

Well, Bush's housing crash proves her right!

Which regulation would have prevented the housing crash? Be specific.

Ahhh yes, the perpetual dumb act! Which repealed law are we discussing in these posts? Figure that out and you have your answer!

Which repealed law are we discussing in these posts?

You think Glass-Steagall would have prevented the bubble? Why exactly?

If you could stop being dumb for a minute.......

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Why would I goggle your stupid claims?

For the same reason you respond to them I guess. You need to learn. But try Google. What you are currently doing to educate yourself doesn't seem to be working. I form this opinion based on what you write.

For the same reason you respond to them I guess.

For some reason, the confused "thought process" of liberals is interesting.

What you are currently doing to educate yourself doesn't seem to be working.

I await the liberal's "reasoning", so I can point out his errors.
I enjoy educating others, even liberal morons who never learn.

 

[WaitingFor2020]

The accounting scandals in the GSEs opened the door to Wall Street storming into the secondary market.

How?

Investors lost trust in the GSEs and turned to Wall Street instead.

Well sub-prime derivative market was very profitable...until it wasn't. Besides, if GSE's actually went down from internal problems they would drag down the rest of the market.

Sub-primes were less than three percent of the secondary market, until Wall Street went hog wild with CDOs.

The newly invented CDOs were a hot commodity, and there weren't enough good risks to pack into them, and so Wall Street threw the underwriting laws of the Universe out the window, and began searching for more paper to cram into their CDOs. And this mean they needed more and more borrowers.

When you run out of good risk borrowers, and still want to lend more money out, then you inevitably lower your standards. THIS is what caused the crash. Wall Street was selling CDOs like heroin. As was every Western financial institution on the planet.

The idea the banks were FORCED to lend, as the retards claim, is outright laughable. Every time I hear a tard say that, I immediately know they are a parroting rube who is completely clueless.

Lehman Brothers bought their own mortgage broker pipeline to keep the paper flowing in. And Fuld thought he had his risks covered by credit default swaps and CDO-squareds and all kinds of other bizarre shit. He also thought that if all else failed, the US government would not allow him to collapse.

He was wrong on every count.

And when some ignorant parroting rube in Congress asked him during the hearings how much the CRA had to do with Lehman failing, Fuld responded, "De minimus."

Not true.

SPECIFICALLY CRA made fewer than 3 percent of the loans. That does not include the millions of SUB-PRIME loans which were NOT CRS loans.

The reduction in the qualifications caused by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac flowed over to all borrowers making more and more bad loans.

These forced changes also led to the "no doc" loans where you simply had to state your income in order to obtain a mortgage. It was INSANE!

NINJA loans. No income,no job. The big banks were pushing them onto the mortgage companies fully knowing the paper trail was going to flip quickly to their investors after they made their profit.

This Forbes op/ed piece clearly lays the blame on the government.
The Government Did It

But there was just too much brush to clear at the ranch in Crawford for Mr. Beady Eyes to do anything about it.

 

[g5000]

The reduction in the qualifications caused by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac flowed over to all borrowers making more and more bad loans.

You have it exactly backwards. The GSEs followed Wall Streets lead. It was Wall Street which threw the underwriting laws of the Universe out the window.

These forced changes also led to the "no doc" loans where you simply had to state your income in order to obtain a mortgage. It was INSANE!

The idea the banks were forced to make bad loans is beyond laughable, and indicative of just how ignorant of the crisis you are.

 

[Dragonlady]

But, but, but she doesn't make the moronic claim that reduced regulation is good for the economy, now does she!!!!!!!! geeezzzz you fools are dense!!!

But, but, but she doesn't make the moronic claim that reduced regulation is good for the economy

She makes the moronic claim that increased regulation is good for the economy.
How many more regulations does Obama need to add to improve his weak economic growth?

Well, Bush's housing crash proves her right!

Which regulation would have prevented the housing crash? Be specific.

Ahhh yes, the perpetual dumb act! Which repealed law are we discussing in these posts? Figure that out and you have your answer!

Which repealed law are we discussing in these posts?

You think Glass-Steagall would have prevented the bubble? Why exactly?

If you could stop being dumb for a minute.......

Yes, because there wouldn't have been the selling of these mortgage backed derrivatives.

 

[WaitingFor2020]

The reduction in the qualifications caused by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac flowed over to all borrowers making more and more bad loans.

You have it exactly backwards. The GSEs followed Wall Streets lead. It was Wall Street which threw the underwriting laws of the Universe out the window.

These forced changes also led to the "no doc" loans where you simply had to state your income in order to obtain a mortgage. It was INSANE!

The idea the banks were forced to make bad loans is beyond laughable, and indicative of just how ignorant of the crisis you are.

They weren't forced to make them, they had paid off Congress very well in order to get away with criminal acts in which no one went to jail. They built the billion-dollar fines into their budgets fully knowing that they were going to pay them, as Elizabeth Warren has constantly reminded us.

 

[WaitingFor2020]

The collusion between the big banks and the fed is clearly spelled out when they were "too big to fail". All an inside job. Hank Paulson offered up a two-page agreement to give the banks $750B. The banks had the federal gov't by the cojones because if any of them failed, the global repercussions were beyond recovery in some countries.

 

[OnePercenter]

Who cares?

Bush-43 was one of the most honorable men ever to reside at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, and anyone with sufficient interest in reality knows it.

And yet, Google the expression, "Bush lied..." and watch your computer explode with all the hits. Not "Hillary lied," not "Bill lied," but "Bush lied." And the "lie" to which they refer was the acceptance by Bush-43 of the intelligence information provided by our own military and civilian intelligence services. It was not a lie at all.

Lefties are not often burdened with such trivialities as facts.

Except his economic policy was the cause of the worst economic collapse in the history of the United States.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The reduction in the qualifications caused by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac flowed over to all borrowers making more and more bad loans.

You have it exactly backwards. The GSEs followed Wall Streets lead. It was Wall Street which threw the underwriting laws of the Universe out the window.

These forced changes also led to the "no doc" loans where you simply had to state your income in order to obtain a mortgage. It was INSANE!

The idea the banks were forced to make bad loans is beyond laughable, and indicative of just how ignorant of the crisis you are.

You have it exactly backwards. The GSEs followed Wall Streets lead. It was Wall Street which threw the underwriting laws of the Universe out the window.

To be fair, the government forced the GSEs to buy a huge number of subprime mortgages.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

But, but, but she doesn't make the moronic claim that reduced regulation is good for the economy

She makes the moronic claim that increased regulation is good for the economy.
How many more regulations does Obama need to add to improve his weak economic growth?

Well, Bush's housing crash proves her right!

Which regulation would have prevented the housing crash? Be specific.

Ahhh yes, the perpetual dumb act! Which repealed law are we discussing in these posts? Figure that out and you have your answer!

Which repealed law are we discussing in these posts?

You think Glass-Steagall would have prevented the bubble? Why exactly?

If you could stop being dumb for a minute.......

Yes, because there wouldn't have been the selling of these mortgage backed derrivatives.

Mortgage backed securities were sold for decades before Clinton repealed parts of Glass-Steagall.

 

[g5000]

The reduction in the qualifications caused by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac flowed over to all borrowers making more and more bad loans.

You have it exactly backwards. The GSEs followed Wall Streets lead. It was Wall Street which threw the underwriting laws of the Universe out the window.

These forced changes also led to the "no doc" loans where you simply had to state your income in order to obtain a mortgage. It was INSANE!

The idea the banks were forced to make bad loans is beyond laughable, and indicative of just how ignorant of the crisis you are.

You have it exactly backwards. The GSEs followed Wall Streets lead. It was Wall Street which threw the underwriting laws of the Universe out the window.

To be fair, the government forced the GSEs to buy a huge number of subprime mortgages.

The GSEs weren't even a primary factor in the crisis, and their loans performed better than Wall Street's.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The reduction in the qualifications caused by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac flowed over to all borrowers making more and more bad loans.

You have it exactly backwards. The GSEs followed Wall Streets lead. It was Wall Street which threw the underwriting laws of the Universe out the window.

These forced changes also led to the "no doc" loans where you simply had to state your income in order to obtain a mortgage. It was INSANE!

The idea the banks were forced to make bad loans is beyond laughable, and indicative of just how ignorant of the crisis you are.

You have it exactly backwards. The GSEs followed Wall Streets lead. It was Wall Street which threw the underwriting laws of the Universe out the window.

To be fair, the government forced the GSEs to buy a huge number of subprime mortgages.

The GSEs weren't even a primary factor in the crisis, and their loans performed better than Wall Street's.

The GSEs weren't even a primary factor in the crisis,

But they held over $1 trillion in subprime loans at the end.
Not nothing.

 

[g5000]

The repeal of Glass-Steagall took place in increments. It was not repealed all at once. Some parts of Glass-Steagall were obsolete or impractical.

However, the CFMA (aka GLB) delivered the death stroke. It codified a protective circle around financial weapons of mass destruction (derivatives) from being regulated, and allowed commercial banks to risk depositors money in these instruments. And that was a fatal mistake.

 

[g5000]

The reduction in the qualifications caused by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac flowed over to all borrowers making more and more bad loans.

You have it exactly backwards. The GSEs followed Wall Streets lead. It was Wall Street which threw the underwriting laws of the Universe out the window.

These forced changes also led to the "no doc" loans where you simply had to state your income in order to obtain a mortgage. It was INSANE!

The idea the banks were forced to make bad loans is beyond laughable, and indicative of just how ignorant of the crisis you are.

You have it exactly backwards. The GSEs followed Wall Streets lead. It was Wall Street which threw the underwriting laws of the Universe out the window.

To be fair, the government forced the GSEs to buy a huge number of subprime mortgages.

The GSEs weren't even a primary factor in the crisis, and their loans performed better than Wall Street's.

The GSEs weren't even a primary factor in the crisis,

But they held over $1 trillion in subprime loans at the end.
Not nothing.

Small players compared to the many, many more trillions globally.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The reduction in the qualifications caused by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac flowed over to all borrowers making more and more bad loans.

You have it exactly backwards. The GSEs followed Wall Streets lead. It was Wall Street which threw the underwriting laws of the Universe out the window.

These forced changes also led to the "no doc" loans where you simply had to state your income in order to obtain a mortgage. It was INSANE!

The idea the banks were forced to make bad loans is beyond laughable, and indicative of just how ignorant of the crisis you are.

You have it exactly backwards. The GSEs followed Wall Streets lead. It was Wall Street which threw the underwriting laws of the Universe out the window.

To be fair, the government forced the GSEs to buy a huge number of subprime mortgages.

The GSEs weren't even a primary factor in the crisis, and their loans performed better than Wall Street's.

The GSEs weren't even a primary factor in the crisis,

But they held over $1 trillion in subprime loans at the end.
Not nothing.

Small players compared to the many, many more trillions globally.

How much in subprime mortgages in the US?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The repeal of Glass-Steagall took place in increments. It was not repealed all at once. Some parts of Glass-Steagall were obsolete or impractical.

However, the CFMA (aka GLB) delivered the death stroke. It codified a protective circle around financial weapons of mass destruction (derivatives) from being regulated, and allowed commercial banks to risk depositors money in these instruments. And that was a fatal mistake.

and allowed commercial banks to risk depositors money in these instruments.

Which commercial bank failed (or would have failed) because of derivatives?
I think, as a group, they made money on them.

 

[Fueri]

FFS- I never said it did. What I said the fraudulent accounting at fannie did was misrepresent fannies position.

WELL IT NO IT FUCKING DIDN'T YOU IDIOT.

THERE WAS EXACTLY ONE AND ONLY ONE THING ONLY THAT AFFECTED GSE'S POSITION - DETERIORATION OF THEIR HOLDINGS DUE TO REAL ESTATE COLLAPSE, ESPECIALLY SUBPRIME BACKED SECURITIES THAT WERE ORIGINALLY RATED AS AAA.

How many times does that need to be repeated for it to sink into your little narrow one track mind?

Oh, you're right. False accounting records don't misrepresent an entities position. Gawd, you really are that fucking stupid, aren't you.

Let's look then at what those investigative bodies found, shall we.


"On Sept. 22, 2004, OFHEO released results of its continuing investigation. The "Special Examination of Fannie Mae" was a dense 211 pages packed with technical accounting details. But the message was clear: OFHEO accused Fannie Mae of both willfully breaking accounting rules and fostering an environment of "weak or nonexistent" internal controls. OFHEO focused on exactly the issue that the skeptics had earlier noticed, which was Fannie's use of accounting rules to defer derivative losses onto its balance sheet. Except OFHEO said that Fannie hadn't just bent the rules, it had broken them.

What got the most attention, though, was OFHEO's charge that in 1998, when an internal model said Fannie would need to recognize a roughly $400 million expense, Fannie only recognized $200 million. That, OFHEO charged, allowed the company to report earnings of $3.23 per share, which meant that Fannie paid out a total of about $27 million in bonuses. Both the SEC and Justice quickly announced their own investigations."

In other words they misrepresented their financials, so the management could reap bonuses. The SEC also found the same. Of course I already provided that information, but it raced in one of your ears and out the other, as there was nothing there to stop it.

I'll now point out the fact that this is exactly the information in the post of mine you grabbed to start this conversation, in other words it's exactly what I've been saying all along and while I have offered one fact after the next to back up what I've said, all, literally ALL , you have done is sputter.

You may now go fuck yourself, moron.

Fucking dumbass, the real estate pricing collapse was in 2007 and the position of GSEs was AWESOME, until it happened, because what preceded the bust, was the boom.

Accounting issues that were settled in 2004 have NOTHING to do with the market problems in 2007.

You keep posting about the 2004, but can you link to ANYTHING that even mentions it having something to do with Great Recession?

If GSE have perfect accounting guess what happens next time real estate prices collapse? They will need to be bailed because they always were and always will be highly leveraged.

and i'll point out yet again to your stupid ass that I never said this was the cause of the meltdown.

That you are so fucking stupid that you continue to harp on this point as if it's a point is hilarious.

I said something, you said something completely different and now you're all apoplectic because I've simply backed up what I said while you were screaming bloody fucking murder because I wouldn't allow you to reframe the discussion. It's all you've done, and all you continue to do.

I'm not sure what your problems are exactly with respect to reading comprehension, but they're not mine.

Nobody, myself included, ever said that this was the primary cause of the meltdown.

What I said, dumbfuck, is that these institutions were cooking the books to garner bonuses for management. And they were. It is irrefutable. So just shut the fuck up and maybe go take a class on reading comprehension.

 

[g5000]

But, but, but repealing Glass-Steagall REDUCED regulation and the Right blames its repeal for the Bush Housing Crash!!!!!
How can it be that reduced regulation caused a bubble???

But, but, but repealing Glass-Steagall REDUCED regulation and the Right blames its repeal for the Bush Housing Crash!!!!!

Elizabeth Warren blames its repeal, is she on the right?
So does Bernie. He a righty?

Do you blame the repeal?

But, but, but she doesn't make the moronic claim that reduced regulation is good for the economy, now does she!!!!!!!! geeezzzz you fools are dense!!!

But, but, but she doesn't make the moronic claim that reduced regulation is good for the economy

She makes the moronic claim that increased regulation is good for the economy.
How many more regulations does Obama need to add to improve his weak economic growth?

Well, Bush's housing crash proves her right!

Which regulation would have prevented the housing crash? Be specific.

The regulation forbidding commercial banks from risking depositor money in derivatives.

A regulation forbidding credit default swaps would have greatly mitigated the crash.

Regulations which would have required CDOs and other derivatives to be traded on public exchanges, with transparent chains of collateral, would have greatly mitigated the crash, if not outright prevented it.

Here's the thing about regulations. Neither "more" nor "less" are good for the economy.

What is good for the economy is SMART regulation.