Do You Force Religion on Your Kids?

[liberalogic]

Aren't you basically trying to say that children should be told the truth and only the truth ?

I'm talking about the isolated aspect of religion. I'm not writing a book on child rearing. Religion is too complex to be understood at a young age. It can only be accepted. Would you read "To Kill a Mockingbird" to a 5 year old and expect him to understand that the mockingbird symbolizes innocence? No, you expect him to see that Boo Radley was good because he helped Jem and Scout. The kid will accept what's on the surface without understanding its deeper implications. When this happens early on, it tends to get stuck in your head and you are unable to rationalize it for yourself. Don't generalize my argument-- I am speaking of religion, not everything you should do to raise your child.

 

[dilloduck]

I'm talking about the isolated aspect of religion. I'm not writing a book on child rearing. Religion is too complex to be understood at a young age. It can only be accepted. Would you read "To Kill a Mockingbird" to a 5 year old and expect him to understand that the mockingbird symbolizes innocence? No, you expect him to see that Boo Radley was good because he helped Jem and Scout. The kid will accept what's on the surface without understanding its deeper implications. When this happens early on, it tends to get stuck in your head and you are unable to rationalize it for yourself. Don't generalize my argument-- I am speaking of religion, not everything you should do to raise your child.

The logic that you are using to argue against teaching religion to a child is bogus. A lot of things are too complicated for a child---that's why parents are there--to simplify if for them. You start with easy stuff like "Jesus LovesMe"---the "Hallelujah Chorus" comes later. There are tons of things that need clarification as we grow. Learning should never stop.

 

[Avatar4321]

I've wanted to bring this point up for a while and get some views from others. Is it really fair to raise your child as a member of any one religion? I know that tradition is important to many families, but I've always thought that if you are religious, you should firmly believe-- not believe because your parents tell you to do so.

Now, it's true that once the kid turns 18, he/she has the choice to believe anything or nothing at all. But the truth of the matter is that by telling your kids to believe something (or to attend church, temple, mosque or wherever you go to worship), you are not giving them a choice.

I've come to the conclusion that parents shouldn't raise their kids to be members of any religion (Don't worry, this is my ethical opinion, I don't think it should be a law or anything) because they are indoctrinating them before they have the chance to fully understand it and place it in the context of the world in which we live.

For instance, I was brought up Roman Catholic (not devout or anything like that), but I did have the fear of God lurking around me in many things I did. As a matter of fact, I was kicked out of CCD (catholic school for those who go to public school) for asking how Mary was a Virgin if she had Jesus (I honestly didn't know the answer and was actually curious). My point is that there's a difference between being told to accept something and accepting it yourself...I think the latter of the two is more important and this can't be done (with regards to religion) until the child is older and able to truly grasp its magnitude.

It's the duty of parents to teach their children the truth. Whether they accept it or not is up to them. The fact that you don't want to teach your children truth says more about you than those who have faith in God. If you don't have faith to teach your Children than you should be looking for true faith. because its a duty regardless.

 

[Nienna]

I'm not underestimating the mind of a child. I'm saying that when shit is drilled into your head early on in life, it tends to stick with you...so wouldn't being told to believe a religion have a lasting impact (regardless of whether you think it's good or bad) as well?

Hopefully MOST of the stuff we teach our kids will have a lasting impact. That is called "raising" them.

And yes, I did "escape." But many don't and many don't question it because that's what they were taught and they simply stick to it. Religion is too powerful to be instilled at such a young age when a child has no choice (due to his mental capacity) but to accept it.

As stated before, no one is capable of mind control. A person cannot be forced to believe. They can be influenced. If someone is not uncomfortable enough to want to leave the religion of his youth, why should he?

And I'm sorry, but I don't believe this for a second: "People are inherently bad. It takes Faith in something bigger than themselves to coerce them into 'good' behaviour." I know plenty of atheists who are good people-- they didn't need the bible to tell them how to behave.

People are inherently selfish. Be it from "original sin" or from "survival instinct," it does take outside forces to inspire unselfishness.

Yes, there are evil people out there, but to blindly accept that we are ALL evil is quite an assumption to make. I never said the bible can't be used to instill morality, but it is not the only way.

So you agree that "morality" must be instilled? Since it is obviously a parent's duty to instill morality, why should we fetter his choice of method? If a parent uses religion to instill morality, why should anyone object to that? Unless you are opposed to parents having ultimate authority over their children.

And also, many people have some moral standards that oppose the bible. For instance, I think people should be able to have premarital sex or masturbate for that matter. I think gays should be accepted. I don't think slavery should be condoned on any level. I think women are 100% equal to men. I value this and it all contradicts the bible. So I could argue that it shouldn't be used to show morality, but that's a totally different issue and does not pertain to the subject.

Just for the sake of clarification... masturbation is not directly addressed, as far as I know, in the Bible. Gays should be accepted; only the homosexual behavior should not. Slavery was not what God intended for people, but those who find themselves enslaved are still responsible for conducting themselves with Christian humility. The Bible agrees that women are 100% equal to men.

So, some of YOUR moral standards are opposite what is suggested in the Bible. So, you are free to raise YOUR children without reference to the Bible. I find this reprehensible; however, I do not question your right to teach your children as you see fit. I would ask you to afford the same courtesy to those who DO believe in the Bible.

 

[GotZoom]

Actually I'm east coast and I've been writing a paper...

I like the question that GotZoom brought up about teaching children values. The truth is that you don't need a bible to tell a kid what is right from wrong. Can it help or be a method of instilling moral values in a child? Absolutely. But if the child is not being raised to believe in anything, the parent can easily use some of the values of all religions without putting them into a religious context. For example: "Don't kill" instead of "God said not to kill."

As for the other comments, I see how a child might need a starting point. At the same time, though, most people who believe in a specific faith were borned and raised that way and that's how they continued to worship. True, at a certain age many will question, but most will remain with their religion. My problem with that is that I don't see religion as something that you should believe in just because you were raised that way. You should believe in something because it makes sense to you. By determining a child's religion early on in life, little room is left to question and explore yourself. I feel it might be better for the parents to say, "Look, there might be something out there-- we don't know. We will leave it up to you to decide when you get older and when you can better make sense of it all."

So if parents raise their kids based on "Christian values" (which come from the Bible), that would be acceptable to you only if the parent doesnt' say where the Christian values come from?

Don't Kill instead of God said don't kill. Little Johnny then asks, why can't I
kill?

What does the parent say? Because I said so?

That is like teaching someone that 2 + 2 = 4 because I said so, instead of explaining why it equals 4.

I would think you would want to teach "God says so." Then little Johnny says "Who is God." Then you could answer, "A lot of people have different thoughts about who God is....."

And..what the heck...what if little Johnny (or Jenny - don't want to leave out the females), "What God do you believe in?"

What do you say then?

Parents need to teach, lay groundwork, guide, lead by example.

That won't prevent the child from making their own decisions when they are older.

 

[Nienna]

My point is not that religion is bad-- it's that children should not be brought up one way or the other because it's telling them to accept something when they don't have the mental capacity to see its flaws (or even its pros for that matter). They're believing it because it's shoved down their throat. And that is not why you should believe in something.

I am working on the assumption that you are not religious. Perhaps you don't understand the POV of the religious parent. The "religion" is the most basic, underlying system of his life. It affects EVERYTHING about the way he views the world. To ask a parent to teach morality without including religious beliefs is to ask him to teach his children half-truths. If you are familiar with Kohlberg's stages of morality, you will know that children come to a point at which they want to know "why." To back a parent into a corner in which he always has to qualify his POV with statements such as "Well, I believe..." or "It could be that..." is to stifle the relationship between parent and child. A parent should be free to impart truth (which is what it means to believe-- to hold something to be more true, not equally true). This is a parent's job, to instill a framework in the child, not just toss him to the wind and hope he lands all right. If flaws are to be found, the child will find them. If the child remains comfortable in the parent's teaching, why is that wrong? Children's minds are impressionable, but not absolutely solidified. It is normal in development for a child to reach a point of seeking, soul-searching, in which he will choose to accept or reject the teachings of his childhood. This point WILL come. Mind control is NOT possible.

 

[Powerman]

It's the DUTY of parents to raise their kids up believing in the faith of the Parents. Nobody can 'force' somebody to believe anything anyway, thus the premise of your question is false.

You may not be able to force it but you are certainly playing with he odds when you crush something into someone's head since the day they were born.

But let's be honest here. If religion were introduced at adult age and not during childhood, few would actually believe in any of it.

 

[Nienna]

Personally, I would retort to that by saying that all Christians have sinned along the way (hell, when you're born you've already sinned). To do this may be a sin, but what's the difference between that and all the other sins that you've repented? I don't know if you do confession, I'm just basing it on catholocism because thats how I was brought up.

If you knowingly continue in your sin, with no struggle, no intention of repentence, you are not a Christian.

 

[GotZoom]

You may not be able to force it but you are certainly playing with he odds when you crush something into someone's head since the day they were born.

But let's be honest here. If religion were introduced at adult age and not during childhood, few would actually believe in any of it.

Work hard.
Be honest.
Do your best.
Be respectful.
Be polite.

Yeah...those poor kids are really going to be f'd up crushing all these things in their head.

 

[Shattered]

<b>You may not be able to force it but you are certainly playing with he odds when you crush something into someone's head since the day they were born.</b>

But let's be honest here. If religion were introduced at adult age and not during childhood, few would actually believe in any of it.

Dude. You need some chocolate. You're PMSing bad.

 

[Nienna]

You may not be able to force it but you are certainly playing with he odds when you crush something into someone's head since the day they were born.

But let's be honest here. If religion were introduced at adult age and not during childhood, few would actually believe in any of it.

This is true. But it would not be because they weren't taught to believe something. It would be because they were taught to believe nothing.

 

[Hobbit]

Do you FORCE your kids to have an education? Do you FORCE your kids to eat things other than candy? Do you FORCE you kids to go to be on time? What a cruel, propogandist view, to say that somebody needs to eat right, go to bed, and get an education. Your kids should be allowed to make those decisions for themselves.

Although nobody ever does, I implore you to look at it from the perspective of the religious. First off, it is prevalent in every aspect of the parents' life. I mean, do you honestly expect the parents to hire a babysitter every Sunday so the parents can go to church without, OH NOES, INDOCTRINATING their kids? Then, there's the matter of the eternal soul. I want my kids to go to Heaven, not Hell, and I will definitely do all I can towards that end.

 

[Joz]

You may not be able to force it but you are certainly playing with he odds when you crush something into someone's head since the day they were born.

liberalogic]I'm saying that when shit is drilled into your head early on in life

Right now, more than the topic, these statements are what has me the most concerned. You have a very skewed idea of parenthood.

It sounds to me that you have had very negative experiences with religion thus souring you on the matter. And I'm sorry to say this, but your parents will be held acountable for this.

I know all too well the control of a parent......
But that still does not make me irresponsible... for my parenting, my actions, my beliefs.

 

[Abbey Normal]

What you are doing is trying to gloss over telling us we should throw our religion out the window and ignore its teachings because you think otherwise.

Here's a liberal thought for you: If you don't want to teach your children about God, that's your business. Their loss. But don't be telling me what to teach mine.

That first paragraph is exactly what I was going to post. Perhaps the reason the OP doesn't want us to "drill sh*t" into our kids' heads, as he so charmingly put it, is apparently because the that 'sh*t', otherwise known as tenets of Christianity, takes him out of his ethical comfort zone.

I strongly believe that the more of my faith that I provide to my child, the better her chances of leading a moral life, and of someday being with our Father in Heaven. So believe me, she is getting that foundation. And contrary to your statements, if she decides in adulthood it's not for her, that will be her informed decision. Not one made in ignorance.

Liberallogic, I assume that you believe this verse:

"Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old, he will not depart from it." Proverbs 22:6

For us Christians, it is a source of great comfort.

 

[liberalogic]

Mom4- While I disagree wholeheartedly with much of what you say, I do have to make it clear that I value and respect your opinion. Whenever you make a point, you make it with clarity, support, and logic (though my logic may differ, I can at least see and respect the cohesive progression of your ideas). It may not be a flattering compliment to you, since I'm sure you don't respect much of what I say, but I hope you understand that I hold your point of view in high regard, even though I disagree.

"Just for the sake of clarification... masturbation is not directly addressed, as far as I know, in the Bible. Gays should be accepted; only the homosexual behavior should not. Slavery was not what God intended for people, but those who find themselves enslaved are still responsible for conducting themselves with Christian humility. The Bible agrees that women are 100% equal to men."

Masturbation is not directly addressed in the Bible, but in the "Student Bible" that the church gave me for confirmation directly stated that it violated Christian values. And also, the religious teachers made that clear as well.
Women and men:

God to Eve (Genesis):
"I shall give you great labour in childbearing; with labour you will bear children. You will desire your husband, BUT HE WILL BE YOUR MASTER."

Slavery (Genesis):
"Bless, O Lord, the tents of Shem; may Canaan be his slave. May God extend Japheth's boundaries, let him dwell in the tents of Shem, may Canaan be his slave."
Not to mention that it is mentioned many times throughout the bible without the condemnation of the lord. Why, "at the beginning of society," when God is putting everything into place, would he forget to say that slavery isn't moral, but instead focuses on making Eve suffer through childbirth?

Now, I really don't want to get into the debate about your specific religion, because that's not my intent.

And Abbey, I never called your values "shit." I used the word to emphasize the fact that kids are impressionable, TOWARDS ANYTHING, at a young age. The fact that they are like this, makes them more vulnerable to acceptance of religion without understanding its larger implications.

 

[Kagom]

Honestly, I don't think we should cram religion down a child's throat. Teach them about yours, but don't be militaristic about it.

 

[Bonnie]

It's the DUTY of parents to raise their kids up believing in the faith of the Parents. Nobody can 'force' somebody to believe anything anyway, thus the premise of your question is false.

YUP!!!!!!!!

 

[Joz]

"Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old, he will not depart from it." Proverbs 22:6
For us Christians, it is a source of great comfort.

I think this text, tho', Abbey, speaks VERY strongly to the responsibility we have to our children.

There are vast examples in the Bible of Godly men who have had rotten kids. And this has worried me as I'm no where near what these men were. My prayer has always been that tho' I fall VERY short, that the things I did teach my children, God will always impress upon their hearts. But they still have the choice. What if they chose differently??? It mean's I've failed.

Cain killed Abel.

Samson willfully went against his parents (& God) with the choosing of women in his life; and he suffered greatly for it.

God said that David was a man after his own heart. But look at David's children. Amnon raped his sister. Absalom conspired against his father. And Solomon, even tho' he was the author of those very words, "did evil in the sight of the Lord".

And Eli. Tho' Hannah took her son Samuel to Eli for him to prepare Samuel for the Lord, Eli's son's were not good. Hannah must have been so very godly, herself.

 

[Bonnie]

It's not so much an issue of force but as parents you are obligated to impart wisdom and knowledge about many things. We teach kids not to cross the street, to say thank you and please, to do their homework, to not talk back, to have compassion for others...........So how then do those things not come under the umbrella of morality and religion? Parents are obligated if they are religous to include their children in that as well as all of life's other lessons. Are parents supposed to stop practicing their faith in the presence of their children, or leave their kids home alone when they go to church..........That really doesn't make any sense.

Children when they become adults can select any religion they want or none, but at least their parents did the right things by giving them a foundation or place to start from.

 

[Abbey Normal]

...
And Abbey, I never called your values "shit." I used the word to emphasize the fact that kids are impressionable, TOWARDS ANYTHING, at a young age. The fact that they are like this, makes them more vulnerable to acceptance of religion without understanding its larger implications.

Okay, I must have misunderstood. Thanks for clarifying.