Do you believe that mental illness is a

[eots]

it can not be easily diagnosed so called psychiatrist make that claim themselves constantly and your are completely mislead that any absence of neurotransmitters can be measured or any correlation to mental illness can be made..it is simply untrue

"Not easily diagnosed" is ALSO not "doesn't exist". That just argues for making really good choices in doctor, in my opinion.

And you'll excuse me if I choose to listen to respected medical professionals on this subject over a self-proclaimed "advocate" with an axe to grind. They helped me have a life that has gotten better every year since I was twenty-four. YOUR plan would have me still living in Hell. Thanks for nothing.

you limit yourself to those two choices...

 

[RetiredGySgt]

No more than any other effective diagnosis and treatment in medical science, all of which can be improved on.



No topic-hopping. We weren't talking about cures or identifying. We were talking about diagnostic tests, which don't exist for a number of things, including the common cold. The existence of a diagnostic test is not a criteria for whether or not an ailment truly exists.



Coincidentally, the presence or absence of the required neurotransmitters in the brain can ALSO be identified, but usually are not, for the same reason that no one bothers to test specifically for cold germs: there's no point in going to that kind of effort and expense (and risk, in the case of the neurotransmitters) for something that can easily be diagnosed by signs and symptoms instead.

it can not be easily diagnosed so called psychiatrist make that claim themselves constantly and your are completely mislead that any absence of neurotransmitters can be measured or any correlation to mental illness can be made..it is simply untrue

Look you dumb ass, it took many different medications before I and my doctor found ones that worked. AND they do work. And no they are not sugar pills. Those would have accomplished nothing for me. In fact since I have diabetes they would have harmed more then the anti depressants ever did.

Go peddle your ignorance somewhere else.

Remind us again how sane you are with your ignorant babble about 9/11 and other ignorant conspiracy crap. YOU should be seeing a shrink.

 

[asaratis]

Medical

 

[Cecilie1200]

Unlike physical health problems and medical conditions, there are no laboratory tests such as blood and urine analyses or x-rays to assist practitioners to definitively diagnose mental illnesses. Instead, practitioners generally rely on listening carefully to patients' complaints and observing their behavior

Diagnosing Disease: The Process of Detecting and Identifying Illness - Diagnosing Mental Illness



> Psychiatrists Admit: No Cures No Science


> Psychiatry: No Cures No Science [4 mins]


> YouTube - CCHR on Psychiatry: No Science, No Cures


> Psychiatrists openly admitting at the 2006 APA convention
> that they have no scientific tests to prove mental illness
> and have no cures for these unproven mental illnesses.



At least psychiatrists have medical degrees, but psychology is totally
unscientific. The problem is that mental 'illness' literally exists
within the patient's head, so it is impossible to quantify, as is the
'treatment.' Other illnesses can be accurately diagnosed with x-rays,
blood tests, or other diagnostic technologies, and the treatment's
effectiveness can be quantified with the same technologies (e.g., an x-
ray will reveal the tumor has shrunk, or a blood test will reveal that
hemoglobin levels have returned to normal).

When a patient sees a psychologist, there is no diagnostic test to
determine what 'illness' he suffers from, if any at all. And after
countless hours of $500/hour psychotherapy, there is no diagnostic
test to determine whether there has been any improvement in the
patient's condition. The patient might think he feels better, but it
could be just a placebo effect. In fact, people who seek various new
age 'treatments' from astrology to herbalism to faith healing will
swear they are effective, even though they are as unscientific as
psychology.

Psychiatrists admit - NO CURES NO SCIENCE - soc.culture.indian | Google Groups

And again, there are many things that do not have diagnostic tests. Lack of tests does not equal non-existent.

Your ability to cherry-pick sources that preach the same sermon as you ALSO does not equal non-existence.

My question is, what do you hope to achieve by sitting in here, telling a group of people who have been helped with mental and emotional disorders by medication that their illnesses didn't exist, they were just imagining it all, and that medication is worthless? What do you hope to achieve by spreading that message to people who might still be suffering?

 

[Cecilie1200]

"Not easily diagnosed" is ALSO not "doesn't exist". That just argues for making really good choices in doctor, in my opinion.

And you'll excuse me if I choose to listen to respected medical professionals on this subject over a self-proclaimed "advocate" with an axe to grind. They helped me have a life that has gotten better every year since I was twenty-four. YOUR plan would have me still living in Hell. Thanks for nothing.

you limit yourself to those two choices...

No, YOU try to limit me to no choice at all. Thankfully, I ignored doom-and-gloom naysayers like you 16 years ago and found my way out.

 

[eots]

it can not be easily diagnosed so called psychiatrist make that claim themselves constantly and your are completely mislead that any absence of neurotransmitters can be measured or any correlation to mental illness can be made..it is simply untrue

Look you dumb ass, it took many different medications before I and my doctor found ones that worked. AND they do work. And no they are not sugar pills. Those would have accomplished nothing for me. In fact since I have diabetes they would have harmed more then the anti depressants ever did.

Go peddle your ignorance somewhere else.

Remind us again how sane you are with your ignorant babble about 9/11 and other ignorant conspiracy crap. YOU should be seeing a shrink.

you say your fat and have diabties...did you ever adress diet...what kind of lifestyle changes did you make...how much psycothreapy did you have...did you ever think the passage of time..not..the right meds.. may of made a difference....and as far as your 9/11 straw man goes....I will be happy to remind you


Letter to Congress regarding the 9/11 Commission Report 9/13/04, signed by the following 25 military, intelligence, and law enforcement veterans: National Security Whistleblowers Coalition


"[W]e the undersigned wish to bring to the attention of the Congress and the people of the United States what we believe are serious shortcomings in the report and its recommendations. …

Omission is one of the major flaws in the Commission’s report. We are aware of significant issues and cases that were duly reported to the commission by those of us with direct knowledge, but somehow escaped attention. …

The omission of such serious and applicable issues and information by itself renders the report flawed, and casts doubt on the validity of many of its recommendations. ...

The Commission, with its incomplete report of "facts and circumstances", intentional avoidance of assigning accountability, and disregard for the knowledge, expertise and experience of those who actually do the job, has now set about pressuring our Congress and our nation to hastily implement all its recommendations. ...

We the undersigned, who have worked within various government agencies (FBI, CIA, FAA, DIA, Customs) responsible for national security and public safety, call upon you in Congress to include the voices of those with first-hand knowledge and expertise in the important issues at hand. We stand ready to do our part." National Security Whistleblowers Coalition


Edward J. Costello, Jr. – Former Special Agent, Counterterrorism, FBI. Former Judge pro tem., Los Angeles, CA.


John M. Cole – Former Intelligence Operations Specialist, in the FBI’s Counterintelligence Division. In charge of FBI’s foreign intelligence investigations covering India, Pakistan and Afghanistan. 18-year FBI career.


Mark Conrad, JD – Retired Agent in Charge, Internal Affairs, U.S. Customs, responsible for the internal integrity and security for areas encompassing nine states and two foreign locations. Former Federal Sky Marshall. 27-year U.S. Customs career. Currently Associate General Counsel, National Association of Federal Agents. Assistant Professor of Criminal Justice at Troy University.


Rosemary N. Dew – Former Supervisory Special Agent, Counterterrorism and Counterintelligence, FBI. Former member of The President's National Security Telecommunications Advisory Committee (NSTAC) and the Electronic Commerce/Cyber Crime Working Group. 13-year FBI career.


Bogdan Dzakovic – Witness before the 9/11 Commission. 14-year Counter-terrorism expert in the Security Division of the Federal Aviation Administration. Team Leader of the FAA's Red (Terrorism) Team, which conducted undercover tests on airport security through simulated terrorist attacks. Former Team Leader in the Federal Air Marshal program. Former Coast Guard officer. (See also individual statement above.)


Sibel D. Edmonds – Witness before the 9/11 Commission. Former Language Translation Specialist, performing translations for counterterrorism and counterintelligence operations, FBI. (See also individual statement above.)


Steve Elson – Former Special Agent with the U.S. Navy and the FAA. Specialist in Counterterrorism, Intelligence, and Security. Twenty-two years military experience, primarily in Naval Special Warfare and nine years Federal service with the FAA and DEA. Retired Navy SEAL. (See also individual statement above.)


David Forbes – Former head of Thames Valley Police Fraud Squad, trained at New Scotland Yard. Over 30 years experience in law enforcement, commercial and industrial security-related risk management, and service sector business management. Currently Aviation, Logistics and Govt. Security Analyst, BoydForbes, Inc.


Melvin A. Goodman – Former Division Chief and Senior Analyst at the Office of Soviet Affairs, CIA,1966 - 1990. Senior Analyst at the Bureau of Intelligence and Research, State Department, 1974 - 1976. Professor of International Security at the National War College 1986 - 2004. Currently Senior Fellow at the Center for International Policy and Adjunct Professor of International Relations at Johns Hopkins University. He is the author and co-author of five books on international relations. (See also individual statement above.)


Mark Graf – Former Security Supervisor, Planner, and Derivative Classifier, Department of Energy. Former Chairman of the Rocky Flats (DOE) Physical Security Systems Working Group from 1990 through 1995.


Gilbert M. Graham – Retired Special Agent, Counterintelligence, FBI. 24-year FBI career.


Diane Kleiman – Former Special Agent, US Customs.


Lt. Col. Karen U. Kwiatkowski, PhD, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Former Political-Military Affairs Officer in the Office of the Secretary of Defense. Also served on the staff of the Director of the National Security Agency. 20-year Air Force veteran. (See also individual statement above.)


Lynne A. Larkin – Former CIA Operations Officer. Served in several CIA foreign stations and in the CIA's counter-intelligence center helping chair a multi-agency task force and seminars on coordinating intelligence among intelligence and crime prevention agencies.


David MacMichael, PhD – Former Senior Estimates Officer with special responsibility for Western Hemisphere Affairs at the CIA's National Intelligence Council. Former Captain, U.S. Marine Corps.


Raymond L. McGovern – Former Chairman, National Intelligence Estimates, CIA, responsible for preparing the President’ Daily Brief (PDB) for Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush. 27-year CIA veteran. Former U.S. Army Intelligence Officer. (See also individual statement above.)


Theodore J. Pahle – Former Senior Intelligence Officer with the Defense Intelligence Agency. His 37-year intelligence career was exclusively as a HUMINT (Human Intelligence) operations officer with DIA, Office of Naval Intelligence and U.S. Army Intelligence. He is a Middle East and Latin American operations specialist. Today, he continues to support the HUMINT effort as a contract instructor.


Behrooz Sarshar – Retired Language Translation Specialist, performing Farsi translations for counterterrorism and counterintelligence operations dealing with Iran and Afghanistan, FBI.


Brian F. Sullivan – Retired Special Agent and Risk Management Specialist, FAA. Retired Lieutenant Colonel, Military Police.


Commander Larry J. Tortorich, U.S. Navy (ret) – Former Deputy Program Manager for Logistics – Tomahawk Cruise Missiles. 24-year Navy career in the fields of aviation and counterterrorism. Two years as a federal employee with DHS/TSA in the fields of security and counterterrorism.


Jane A. Turner – Retired Special Agent, FBI. 24-year FBI career.


John B. Vincent – Retired Special Agent, Counterterrorism, FBI. 27-year FBI career.


Fred Whitehurst, JD, PhD – Retired Supervisory Special Agent / Laboratory Forensic Examiner, FBI. 16-year FBI career. Former U.S. Army Intelligence Officer.


Col. Ann Wright, U.S. Army (ret) – Retired Army officer and former U.S. Diplomat. Served 13 years on active duty with the U.S. Army and 16 years in the U.S. Army Reserves. She was a member of the International law team in Operation Urgent Fury in Grenada and served in Panama and Somalia. She joined the Foreign Service in 1987 and served as Deputy Chief of Mission of U.S. Embassies in Sierra Leone, Micronesia and Afghanistan. She helped reopen the US Embassy in Kabul in December, 2001. One of three U.S. State Department officials to publicly resign in direct protest of the invasion of Iraq in March, 2003. (See also individual statement above.)


Matthew J. Zipoli – Special Response Team (SRT) Officer, DOE. Vice President, Security Police Officer's Association, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory

Patriots Question 9/11 - Responsible Criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report

 

[Barb]

It's hard to be a kid in that position. I'm sorry you had to deal with all that.
You mentioned diabetes. Chemical imbalances because of diabetes produce some pretty mystifying mood swings for those who aren't aware of what goes on. My father was completely non compliant with his diet, and I blamed him completely for the results. It was a complicated relationship. He was a Marine, he taught me how to argue, and I was the only one in the family who would argue with him instead of nod and smile just to shut him up. Honestly, he had flashes of brilliance, and as angry as I was with him much of the time, I owe him my survival for teaching me how, rather than what to think.
The chemical imbalances that produce the mood swings that come with diabetes are counter-intuitive from the viewpoint of a child, and self destructive for the one with the disease. What I blamed him for was a cycle that chased its tail, caught, and ate it. In the end, it ate him with it. When he killed himself I was livid.

I hope you've found the answers to the reasons for your fathers spooks, and the peace not to take the results personally.

Wow Barb, that must have been just as hard on you, your father's suicide.

I think that is what gets my goat about all this mental health stuff, is folks that think pain is a choice. Folks that don't understand that to people who suffer from the disease, there are no choices, other then fighting it. Look at the folks here, all different in their thought patterns. All ready to defend it. Unfortunately, for many that suffer Mental illiness, they can't defend something that many don't believe. Imagine their struggle. 4 people (I think it was four) have stated from first hand expereince their belief in the illness that effects them. And the medicine that helps them fight the disease. And still, first hand witness isn't enough.

How sad is that?

Some of it is stigma, some the idea that nothing like that could ever happen to them because they have superior genes. Most I think (hope) is simple ignorance of the issues involved. Part of the problem is that not even the same illnesses respond the same way to identical levels of treatment. My son was diagnosed ADHD. I refused medication for him and he's done fine with a cup of coffee every morning. Lowest possible intervention first. That said, everybody is different. I've seen much more severe cases where medication is a justified necessity that helps quality of life for children. I still have a problem with the industry that caused the problem offering the solution, but that's another thread.

There are many good reasons why people don't trust the pharmaceutical industry and question the medical community in general. If the profit motive was (somehow) taken out of it, maybe they would be more trustworthy by removing the hacks and profiteers from the system. Until that time there will always be those who disregard entirely anything they don't understand, and people like me, sitting on the fence, unwilling to throw the baby out with the bathwater but casting a jaded eye at them all.

And yes, as with anything else, those who do not experience one particular type of pain tend to discount it. It is discouraging.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I was not diabetic until 2000, 6 YEARS after it all went to shit. The depression lead to most of my weight gain.

And it was not TIME that helped me, it was finding the right meds, I went from having a voice in my head and daily suicidal thoughts with major depression to functioning nearly normal after a couple days from the med change.

And I see my therapist every Monday have since 2000.

You are an IGNORANT ASS Eots. You are going to get someone dead. But knowing you, you will then blame them for being "weak"

My weight is stable, my diet is fine. I gain weight when I quit functioning or like the last time take a trip in a car across the US and back.

 

[eots]

you limit yourself to those two choices...

No, YOU try to limit me to no choice at all. Thankfully, I ignored doom-and-gloom naysayers like you 16 years ago and found my way out.

hardly ...just try to educate people of the options and the risk especially with the anti psychotic medications..nerolrptics...that are increasingly be prescribed for other so called mental disorders and to children...I believe in alternative therapy's and the research of its effectiveness in many cases... and I believe in informed consent....somebody has to... the criminals cant not be left to police themselves

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_iXApBeT5s]YouTube - Fox, Douglas Kennedy, Lilly pays $1.42 billion in Zyprexa suit[/ame]

 

[eots]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hM01_KZjWHw]YouTube - Fox News - Antipsychotics and Children[/ame]

 

[DamnYankee]

No, YOU try to limit me to no choice at all. Thankfully, I ignored doom-and-gloom naysayers like you 16 years ago and found my way out.

hardly ...just try to educate people of the options and the risk especially with the anti psychotic medications..nerolrptics...that are increasingly be prescribed for other so called mental disorders and to children...I believe in alternative therapy's and the research of its effectiveness in many cases... and I believe in informed consent....somebody has to... the criminals cant not be left to police themselves

YouTube - Fox, Douglas Kennedy, Lilly pays $1.42 billion in Zyprexa suit

Judging from your lack of responses to my points/thoughts directed to you, it would appear that you believe only in what you have decided to believe. I do not believe that your interest is in educating anyone, for to educate others, you'd need to be open to discussion and examine the flaws in your own arguments.

You've mentioned children several times, but have dismissed the comments by several here who have opened up their own personal lives for discussion. You've referred to "so called mental disorders" more than once, and have, again, ignored those speaking from their own tortured experience. I, myself, am not as willing to share where my experience is derived from.

Thank God you've never had or lived with someone with a "so called" mental disorder, and I question your claims that you work with them and your "interest" in them.

 

[editec]

I may not be able to prove mental illness, but I know it when I see it.

 

[DamnYankee]

I may not be able to prove mental illness, but I know it when I see it.

Gonna be busy if you start pointing it out, aren't you?

 

[editec]

I may not be able to prove mental illness, but I know it when I see it.

Gonna be busy if you start pointing it out, aren't you?

Speaking as pot, myself, calling kettles black really isn't really my thing.

 

[DamnYankee]

I may not be able to prove mental illness, but I know it when I see it.

Gonna be busy if you start pointing it out, aren't you?

Speaking as pot, myself, calling kettles black really isn't really my thing.

Well that's a relief....

 

[editec]

Gonna be busy if you start pointing it out, aren't you?

Speaking as pot, myself, calling kettles black really isn't really my thing.

Well that's a relief....

Yeah, I'd be CRAZY to do that.

 

[Tinktink]

Tardive dyskinesias (TDs) are involuntary movements of the tongue, lips, face, trunk, and extremities that occur in patients treated with long-term dopaminergic antagonist medications. Although they are associated with the use of neuroleptics, TDs apparently existed before the development of neuroleptics. People with schizophrenia appear especially vulnerable to developing TDs after exposure to conventional neuroleptics, anticholinergics, toxins, substances of abuse, and other agents. TDs are most common in patients with schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorder, or bipolar disorder who have been treated with antipsychotic medication for long periods, but TDs occasionally occur in other patients as well. For example, people with fetal alcohol syndrome, other developmental disabilities, and other brain disorders are vulnerable to the development of tardive dyskinesias, even after receiving a single dose of the causative agent

Tardive Dyskinesia: eMedicine Neurology

TD's do happen, yes they do. However, most medical medications have side effects. But the side effects are nothing compared to the actual disease.

These folks you say you help, how did they get into the situation in the first place? Because once again I ask how can they be involuntary committed unless they were a danger to themselves or others? And in most cases they only keep you long enough to get you stable enough not to be so, then you are released. Do you think that if involuntary committment were so easy to do, there would be as many mentally ill homeless folks?

 

[eots]

hardly ...just try to educate people of the options and the risk especially with the anti psychotic medications..nerolrptics...that are increasingly be prescribed for other so called mental disorders and to children...I believe in alternative therapy's and the research of its effectiveness in many cases... and I believe in informed consent....somebody has to... the criminals cant not be left to police themselves

YouTube - Fox, Douglas Kennedy, Lilly pays $1.42 billion in Zyprexa suit

Judging from your lack of responses to my points/thoughts directed to you, it would appear that you believe only in what you have decided to believe. I do not believe that your interest is in educating anyone, for to educate others, you'd need to be open to discussion and examine the flaws in your own arguments.

You've mentioned children several times, but have dismissed the comments by several here who have opened up their own personal lives for discussion. You've referred to "so called mental disorders" more than once, and have, again, ignored those speaking from their own tortured experience. I, myself, am not as willing to share where my experience is derived from.

what ever toutured experinces people may have... does not make it a brain disease or neroleptics as the answer



Thank God you've never had or lived with someone with a "so called" mental disorder, and I question your claims that you work with them and your "interest" in them.

well I have and continue to do so...and my services are sought...I dont seek them...I give my help when it is asked for....

 

[Tinktink]

what ever toutured experinces people may have... does not make it a brain disease or neroleptics as the answer



Thank God you've never had or lived with someone with a "so called" mental disorder, and I question your claims that you work with them and your "interest" in them.[/COLOR]

well I have and continue to do so...and my services are sought...I dont seek them...I give my help when it is asked for....

I just read your response in the religion forum on the Scientology thread. You are a Scientologist aren't you? No wonder you won't listen to reasoning.

 

[eots]

Tardive dyskinesias (TDs) are involuntary movements of the tongue, lips, face, trunk, and extremities that occur in patients treated with long-term dopaminergic antagonist medications. Although they are associated with the use of neuroleptics, TDs apparently existed before the development of neuroleptics. People with schizophrenia appear especially vulnerable to developing TDs after exposure to conventional neuroleptics, anticholinergics, toxins, substances of abuse, and other agents. TDs are most common in patients with schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorder, or bipolar disorder who have been treated with antipsychotic medication for long periods, but TDs occasionally occur in other patients as well. For example, people with fetal alcohol syndrome, other developmental disabilities, and other brain disorders are vulnerable to the development of tardive dyskinesias, even after receiving a single dose of the causative agent

Tardive Dyskinesia: eMedicine Neurology

TD's do happen, yes they do. However, most medical medications have side effects. But the side effects are nothing compared to the actual disease.

These folks you say you help, how did they get into the situation in the first place? Because once again I ask how can they be involuntary committed unless they were a danger to themselves or others? And in most cases they only keep you long enough to get you stable enough not to be so, then you are released. Do you think that if involuntary committment were so easy to do, there would be as many mentally ill homeless folks?

you are speaking out your ass ...with no real knowledge of what these medications are prescribed for...they don't take homeless people a mental institutions unless they have committed a serious crime or it is court ordered...they don't want people that are too much trouble....they don't want people without good insurance coverage and you have no real knowledge at all on what is required for involuntary commitment ...do you...honestly