Do you believe that mental illness is a

Actually it is your logic that is flawed. Because you can't prove the brain that was Lobotomized was perfectly healthy.

you have no knowledge of which you speak...ask any psychiatrist if there is any diagnostic test that can determine mental illness...they will reluctantly tell you...there is no such test


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0aNILW6ILk]YouTube - Lobotomy - PBS documentary, on Walter Freeman[/ame]

Huh? I think I agreed with you on there being no "diagnostic" test. I also think I pointed out why, considering the only one that ever attempted (which by the way you so graciously pointed out got a noble prize), failed.
because you can't explore the brain diagnositically. Doesn't mean the disease isn't there.

Now tell me fine sir/madam, why would someone win a Noble prize on Lobotomy? And better yet, why did folks even attempt to use Lobotomies? Oh wait could it be, because they didn't know how else to address mental illness....

no once agin you make assupmtions without facts..it was voted on in congress to build and fund a psyco-therapy based mental health system or a medical based system and by a narrow vote heavily influnced by lobbist it iwas decided ...the selling point was ...length of hospital stays could be reduced on average by 3-4 weeks...another fact the majority of people in psychosis will come out of it without so called medication without the permanent brain damage caused by neuroleptic drugs..it simply cost more and takes more time...there are many studies and trails that have proven this but they are no longer funded due to drug company's
 
Last edited:
you have no knowledge of which you speak...ask any psychiatrist if there is any diagnostic test that can determine mental illness...they will reluctantly tell you...there is no such test


YouTube - Lobotomy - PBS documentary, on Walter Freeman

Huh? I think I agreed with you on there being no "diagnostic" test. I also think I pointed out why, considering the only one that ever attempted (which by the way you so graciously pointed out got a noble prize), failed.
because you can't explore the brain diagnositically. Doesn't mean the disease isn't there.

Now tell me fine sir/madam, why would someone win a Noble prize on Lobotomy? And better yet, why did folks even attempt to use Lobotomies? Oh wait could it be, because they didn't know how else to address mental illness....

no once agin you make assupmtions without facts..it was voted on in congress to build and fund a psyco-therapy based mental health system or a medical based system and by a narrow vote heavily influnced by lobbist it iwas decided ...the selling point was ...length of hospital stays could be reduced on average by 3-4 weeks...another fact the majority of people in psychosis will come out of it without so called medication without the permanent brain damage caused by neuroleptic drugs..it simply cost more and takes more time...there are many studies and trails that have proven this but they are no longer funded due to drug company's

Why was anything voted on, or any Noble prizes given? If mental illness isn't real? Are you saying that those congressional votes, and noble prize winning events, were based on nothing? If you can't see those very things you point out are proof that mental illness is real, then you have no argument.
 
Effective Non-Neuroleptic Treatment

Treating schizophrenia without drugs? There's good evidence for it. Comment: PsychMinded, by Tim Carlton, April 24, 2009.
Effective non-medication or not exclusive medication treatment for psychosis

Once again links to studies that leaders of those studies want you to believe, because that is what they believe. Anyone willing to do a study, can make any study work into what they believe.

Some Schizophrenics, commit their heinous acts (whether it be to themselve, their loved ones or strangers) do it when not drugged. Explain that one to me. Tell me why. And I will shut up.
 
Effective Non-Neuroleptic Treatment

Treating schizophrenia without drugs? There's good evidence for it. Comment: PsychMinded, by Tim Carlton, April 24, 2009.
Effective non-medication or not exclusive medication treatment for psychosis

Once again links to studies that leaders of those studies want you to believe, because that is what they believe. Anyone willing to do a study, can make any study work into what they believe.

the people doing the non-drug studies are not under the influence and control of profit only drug corporations



Some Schizophrenics, commit their heinous acts (whether it be to themselve, their loved ones or strangers) do it when not drugged. Explain that one to me. Tell me why. And I will shut up.

another made up fact...many people with so called schizophrenia while on drugs. commit these acts....many times their condition worsens with drugs..all of the school shooters where on so called medications while planing their crimes..it states right on the label these drugs can cause suicidal and homicidal thoughts...fact
 
Last edited:
Effective Non-Neuroleptic Treatment

Treating schizophrenia without drugs? There's good evidence for it. Comment: PsychMinded, by Tim Carlton, April 24, 2009.
Effective non-medication or not exclusive medication treatment for psychosis

Once again links to studies that leaders of those studies want you to believe, because that is what they believe. Anyone willing to do a study, can make any study work into what they believe.

the people doing the non-drug studies are not under the influence and control of profit only drug corporations



Some Schizophrenics, commit their heinous acts (whether it be to themselve, their loved ones or strangers) do it when not drugged. Explain that one to me. Tell me why. And I will shut up.

another made up fact...many people with so called schizophrenia while on drugs. commit these acts....many times their condition worsens with drugs..all of the school shooters where on so called medications while planing their crimes..it states right on the label these drugs can cause suicidal and homicidal thoughts...fact

Wrong again. Drugs don't heal the condition, they make the condition easier to live with. They basically make folks (schizohprenics) larthargic. School shooters weren't identified as Schizophrenics. And read about the last one, he stopped his meds weeks before he committed the crime.
 
the people doing the non-drug studies are not under the influence and control of profit only drug corporations



Some Schizophrenics, commit their heinous acts (whether it be to themselve, their loved ones or strangers) do it when not drugged. Explain that one to me. Tell me why. And I will shut up.

another made up fact...many people with so called schizophrenia while on drugs. commit these acts....many times their condition worsens with drugs..all of the school shooters where on so called medications while planing their crimes..it states right on the label these drugs can cause suicidal and homicidal thoughts...fact
Wrong again. Drugs don't heal the condition, they make the condition easier to live with. They basically make folks (schizohprenics) larthargic.

like a labotomy....

School shooters weren't identified as Schizophrenics. And read about the last one, he stopped his meds weeks before he committed the crime.


i never said drugs heal anything and i said they planned thier crimes while on these drugs for a full year...even anti drug psychiatrist do not advise going of the drugs without a slow reduction...and it was not just combine all the school and mall shooters etc without exception where on psych -meds....the label warnings speak for themselves..this is not my opinion
 
Last edited:
I think Mental Illness
is when your like my ex and try to get away with too much shit in your life
and then you depend on the Cowards of America to support you.
To overlook her ways and realize she's not born with a Penis
and needs to be looked at like a Person better then any Male.
While the Male has a Penis and therefore has two brains.
America needs to treat the woman more like a Retarded person
and expect more from the two brained male.

Yea she does have a mental illness and won't get treated.
Typical Mental Illness person.
While I have seen Mental Illness people many times
and they have said I'm OK.
They say We know that Society as a whole is very Cowardly.

Baltimore Bob

"WTF" was that?
 
Medical condition or a emotional one?

Which mental illness ?

Schizophrenia, bordline, manic depressive, or depression.

Schizophrenia is inheritable, so it's at least partly medical. Many mental illnesses are inheritable.

I should also point out that "emotional" does not in any way separate something from being physical as well, as though the two are somehow totally unrelated. Your emotions are merely chemical reactions caused by hormones secreted by your glands, which is why mental and behavioral disorders can be affected by medication.
 
I believe some are medical and some are emotional. Nervous breakdown or depression = emotional. schizophrenia or psychosis...medical.

Depression ? Clinical depression ? Medical.

I've never studied nor suffered from depression. That's why my opinion is that it is emotional. I didn't even know there were different types of depression.

Clinical depression is caused by a hormone imbalance in the brain. Most times, it's caused by something traumatic in your life that triggers the imbalance (remember what I said earlier about emotions being chemical reactions and hormones) and then the body simply not being able to right itself. Some people, though, are born with this defective ability to regulate their hormones.
 
I believe some are medical and some are emotional. Nervous breakdown or depression = emotional. schizophrenia or psychosis...medical.

Depression ? Clinical depression ? Medical.

Throwing a wrench in here... Dil. Everyone gets sad about life's events. To say they don't would to apply a social path to their personality. What I think is so hard to decipher, is depression = sadness, to depression = mental illness.

I had a good freind get all bummed out about being dumped. So much so she went to a psychologist. Who in turn recommended medication. She wasn't mentally ill, she was just suffering normal saddness and loss. So I have a little hesitation to calling depression, a mental illness... however Clinical depression I don't.

There's a big difference between feeling like shit because something bad happens and then getting over it, and feeling like shit for no reason and being unable to get over it.
 
I believe some are medical and some are emotional. Nervous breakdown or depression = emotional. schizophrenia or psychosis...medical.

Disagreeing. There absolutely are medical factors for depression, one of which is a chemical imbalance.

And not just neurotransmitters like serotonin, either. Gynecology has known for quite a while that women experiencing imbalances in estrogen and progesterone due to a number of physical ailments (all of which are subject to diagnostic screening) have clinical depression as a symptom. And we all know how the changes in body chemistry and hormones brought on by menstruation and pregnancy cause differences in a woman's moods and emotional state.

It's very silly and archaic for people to say "emotional/spiritual" as though emotions aren't physical in nature.
 
cec do you have any experience in mental health? I ask because you seem to be well-read in that area.
 

Eots is one of those fools that thinks all one need do is quit being lazy and have a stiff upper lip and you can wash away severe depression.

He will NEVER get it unless he suffers from it. No matter how much he is told by people that have suffered and ARE suffering he can not grasp the concept.

I spent days laying on my bed afraid to move because if I did I would kill myself. ALL my strength was involved in fighting that overpowering urge, if I moved it would take some of that energy away. There was no energy to "think positive thoughts" or get my lazy ass out of bed and do something. The something would have been blow my brains out.

He can not fathom that medication works because he has never spent 10 YEARS going through medications in a search for the one that would finally work. Him and his sugar pills. In the end it is a combination of pills that work, Geodon, Celexa and Provigal.

He can not grasp the concept that someone can be so depressed, their life and existence so miserable they AGREE to Electro Shock treatment. So miserable that you turn yourself into a mental facility cause you don't have enough strength to keep fighting the desire to end your life.

He can not grasp that clinical depression is being so depressed it is like being in a deep dark hole and there is no light and no hope for any light. He can not understand that it is so bad you can not function. You can not work, you can not even interact with your family.

The failure of one drug after another to even dent the darkness. Or the temporary marginal help of one drug that after a bit stops even doing that. 10 YEARS living in a hole fighting the desire to end your life. Unable to function in society or even your own home.

My problem is compounded by the delusional paranoia and a voice I did not even know was not just me talking to myself till Geodon turned it OFF. Geodon is not really an antidepressant it is an anti psychotic. Something I resisted taking the entire time because I did not believe I had that kind of problem. The Doctor had to mislead me a little to start taking it, only describing it as an antidepressant that helped with other things and treated me with more than serotonin.

I will never stop taking it. Within a few days the voice I did not even realize was a separate thing STOPPED. I no longer had to listen to that monologue of what a failure and loser I was going on in my head. And as we increased the celexa eventually I completely stopped having suicidal thoughts. Ohh they come and go now and again but it is not a constant daily thing.

I still can not work, any medium stress even and I am back in that hole looking out. But I can nearly function normally again. I haven't been to the mental facility in 7 years now. As opposed to 2 to 3 times a year before.

Eots is a fool and does not even realize it. He would deny thousands of people effective treatment for a condition that makes life a hell, cause he can not understand.

Man, that is very deep and sad in a way. Sorry to hear that you go through that. I will admit that I did not know that people go through things like that and I thought they needed a kick in the pants. But you can't really expect people that haven't experienced it to really understand can you?

I remember when clinical depression became a diagnosis in itself instead of being viewed as a symptom of a deeper psychological disorder. When I started taking antidepressants for the first time, it was like I had been wearing sunglasses my entire life, and had taken them off and seen the world in full light for the first time. I was 24. Up until then, I had always worked as a secretarial temp because the occasional catatonic phases that would hit me made it impossible for me to take a regular full-time job, and temping allowed me to take a week or so off when I was unable to do anything but lie in bed and stare at the wall. Because of the medication, I was able to get a regular job and work my way up from being a receptionist to being an administrative assistant, and I met and married my husband two years later.

Since the depression didn't respond to 24 years of counseling and therapy, and disappeared as though it had never existed after two weeks or so of medication (it takes time to build up in the system), I'm going to say the problem was physical, not spiritual.
 
no sorry there is ..no test ...of any kind for mental illness other than subjective observation
there is no Brain scan... no diagnostic test of any kind for any mental illness,,,there is no question about it

There was no Mri identifying where there was cancer in your body a few decades ago, does that mean that there was no cancerous disease in your body? :eusa_whistle:

there is no definitive diagnostic test of any kind for mental illness...only subjective observation..these are simply the facts

Gee, so we don't know everything about how the brain works and how it produces thought. That must mean it isn't doing it. :cuckoo:

Last time I checked, there wasn't a definitive diagnostic test of any kind for the common cold, either. It's diagnosed by categorizing the patient's symptoms. Does that mean the common cold doesn't exist, either? Or that it's not physical, and is just in everyone's head?
 
cec do you have any experience in mental health? I ask because you seem to be well-read in that area.

It runs in my family, and I myself was born with clinical depression. My brain appears to simply be incapable of regulating the amount of serotonin present at any given moment without medication.

Of course there's no diagnostic test for chemical imbalances in the brain. Can you imagine the expense and effort and risk involved in trying to measure such a thing? That doesn't mean that medical science hasn't studied the effects of brain chemicals, though. They had to to be able to come up with effective medications. SSRIs wouldn't work if scientists hadn't found out what serotonin does (even as late as the 1970s and early 80s, they knew it existed, but had no clue what it did) and how it could be manipulated to treat depression.
 
There was no Mri identifying where there was cancer in your body a few decades ago, does that mean that there was no cancerous disease in your body? :eusa_whistle:

there is no definitive diagnostic test of any kind for mental illness...only subjective observation..these are simply the facts

Gee, so we don't know everything about how the brain works and how it produces thought. That must mean it isn't doing it. :cuckoo:

no it means the theory mental illness is a result of chemical imbalances and that neuroleptic drugs are the solution is still very much in question


Last time I checked, there wasn't a definitive diagnostic test of any kind for the common cold, either.

there is no cure for the cold the virus that causes can be identified

It's diagnosed by categorizing the patient's symptoms. Does that mean the common cold doesn't exist, either? Or that it's not physical, and is just in everyone's head
 
cec do you have any experience in mental health? I ask because you seem to be well-read in that area.

I work as an advocate for involuntary commited patients that are forced medication without informed consent

It runs in my family, and I myself was born with clinical depression. My brain appears to simply be incapable of regulating the amount of serotonin present at any given moment without medication.

the sins of the father....learned behaviour



Of course there's no diagnostic test for chemical imbalances in the brain. Can you imagine the expense and effort and risk involved in trying to measure such a thing? That doesn't mean that medical science hasn't studied the effects of brain chemicals, though. They had to to be able to come up with effective medications.

the medications are often very ineffective...sugar pills are effective at a surprisingly high rate ..diet can have remarkable effects...as can cognitive therapy


SSRIs wouldn't work if scientists hadn't found out what serotonin does (even as late as the 1970s and early 80s, they knew it existed, but had no clue what it did) and how it could be manipulated to treat depression

and still dont...it can cause mental illness far worse than deppresion.. this is a fact ..not in dispute
 
Last edited:

New Topics

Forum List

Back
Top