Do you believe that mental illness is a

[geauxtohell]

Conclusions
This study suggests that decreases in hippocampal [3H]pirenzepine binding in subjects with schizophrenia are most likely associated with widespread changes in expression levels of the M4 receptor. These data further implicate the hippocampal formation in the pathology of schizophrenia

Elsevier

You haven't read many scientific papers have you? Vague wording in conclusions are the norm.

At any rate, you asked for any cadaver study that provided evidence that there was a pathophysiology to psychiatry, and I provided it for you after a whopping three second google search.

The diagnosis of mental disorders is often believed to be more difficult than diagnosis of somatic, or general medical, disorders, since there is no definitive lesion, laboratory test, or abnormality in brain tissue that can identify the illness. The diagnosis of mental disorders must rest with the patients’ reports of the intensity and duration of symptoms, signs from their mental status examination, and clinician observation of their behavior including functional impairment. These clues are grouped together by the clinician into recognizable patterns known as syndromes. When the syndrome meets all the criteria for a diagnosis, it constitutes a mental disorder.

Mental Health: A Report of the Surgeon General - Chapter 2

Once again, I have already told you that psychiatry deals entirely in clinical diagnosis due to the fact that there are no tests currently available to provide a lab value for the diagnosis. I have never met a psychiatrist (BTW, I am not a psychiatrist) who has stated otherwise.

This quote says exactly what I have stated.

Again, I have never claimed that there is a workable test and safe test that psychiatry can use to make a diagnosis. You have either misunderstood me or are misrepresenting my words when you claim I have. Furthermore, I also agree that the pathophysiology of even the most discrete of conditions (i.e. schizophrenia) has not been fully established.

Where we differ is that you don't think it is possible to discern a pathophysiology or establish a test at some point in the future, and I do.

Again, your fundamental problem is that you are only content to point out holes in psychiatry without offering any workable alternative. When pressed for an alternative, you can only resort to anecdotes and personal opinion, none of which has ever met any sort of scientific scrutiny (while constantly bitching about how psychiatry is not "science"). This is somewhat akin to the people that argue against evolution by pointing out its flaws without offering any scientifically workable counter-proposals.

Finally, if you think psychiatrists don't study the CNS or that the study of the brain is limited to the field of neurology, you are clueless.

In fact, I provided (and you read) one such study on this thread. Though, I have noticed that you simply ignore items that are inconvenient for your.

 

[eots]

Conclusions
This study suggests that decreases in hippocampal [3H]pirenzepine binding in subjects with schizophrenia are most likely associated with widespread changes in expression levels of the M4 receptor. These data further implicate the hippocampal formation in the pathology of schizophrenia

Elsevier

You haven't read many scientific papers have you? Vague wording in conclusions are the norm.

far more so in psychiatry than anything else...this answer is just an attempt to squirm out of the facts presented

t any rate, you asked for any cadaver study that provided evidence that there was a pathophysiology to psychiatry, and I provided it for you after a whopping three second google search.

bullshit...the study provided no such evidence...you can not examine a cadaver and find proof of mental illness ...stop lying

diagnosis of mental disorders is often believed to be more difficult than diagnosis of somatic, or general medical, disorders, since there is no definitive lesion, laboratory test, or abnormality in brain tissue that can identify the illness. The diagnosis of mental disorders must rest with the patients’ reports of the intensity and duration of symptoms, signs from their mental status examination, and clinician observation of their behavior including functional impairment. These clues are grouped together by the clinician into recognizable patterns known as syndromes. When the syndrome meets all the criteria for a diagnosis, it constitutes a mental disorder.

Mental Health: A Report of the Surgeon General - Chapter 2

Once again, I have already told you that psychiatry deals entirely in clinical diagnosis due to the fact that there are no tests currently available to provide a lab value for the diagnosis. I have never met a psychiatrist (BTW, I am not a psychiatrist) who has stated otherwise.

no they like to imply it...or claim that the test would be too costly ..dangerous or intrusive..instead of simply stating ...no such test exist..period

This quote says exactly what I have stated.

Again, I have never claimed that there is a workable test and safe test that psychiatry can use to make a diagnosis. You have either misunderstood me or are misrepresenting my words when you claim I have. Furthermore, I also agree that the pathophysiology of even the most discrete of conditions (i.e. schizophrenia) has not been fully established.[/QUOTE]

good I am glad you made that clear...

Where we differ is that you don't think it is possible to discern a pathophysiology or establish a test at some point in the future, and I do.

that is correct..on this disagree..only time will tell

Again, your fundamental problem is that you are only content to point out holes in psychiatry without offering any workable alternative. When pressed for an alternative, you can only resort to anecdotes and personal opinion, none of which has ever met any sort of scientific scrutiny (while constantly bitching about how psychiatry is not "science"). This is somewhat akin to the people that argue against evolution by pointing out its flaws without offering any scientifically workable counter-proposals.

I provided an abundance of studies and alternatives you completely ignored here they are again...

Neuroleptics and Chronic Mental Illness

Finally, if you think psychiatrists don't study the CNS or that the study of the brain is limited to the field of neurology, you are clueless.

it is not their field..as a doctor they would spend a portion of time studying all aspects of medicine but it is not their field of expertise and in no way indicates as sky dancer suggest that mental illness is a physical nervous system disorder ..does it

In fact, I provided (and you read) one such study on this thread. Though, I have noticed that you simply ignore items that are inconvenient for your

and I have noticed you interpret information as it suits you...as opposed to what it really says

 

[geauxtohell]

Conclusions
This study suggests that decreases in hippocampal [3H]pirenzepine binding in subjects with schizophrenia are most likely associated with widespread changes in expression levels of the M4 receptor. These data further implicate the hippocampal formation in the pathology of schizophrenia

Elsevier

far more so in psychiatry than anything else...this answer is just an attempt to squirm out of the facts presented


A

bullshit...the study provided no such evidence...you can not examine a cadaver and find proof of mental illness ...stop lying

diagnosis of mental disorders is often believed to be more difficult than diagnosis of somatic, or general medical, disorders, since there is no definitive lesion, laboratory test, or abnormality in brain tissue that can identify the illness. The diagnosis of mental disorders must rest with the patients’ reports of the intensity and duration of symptoms, signs from their mental status examination, and clinician observation of their behavior including functional impairment. These clues are grouped together by the clinician into recognizable patterns known as syndromes. When the syndrome meets all the criteria for a diagnosis, it constitutes a mental disorder.

Mental Health: A Report of the Surgeon General - Chapter 2

no they like to imply it...or claim that the test would be too costly ..dangerous or intrusve..instead of simly stati9ng ...no such test exsit..period

Again, I have never claimed that there is a workable test and safe test that psychiatry can use to make a diagnosis. You have either misunderstood me or are misrepresenting my words when you claim I have. Furthermore, I also agree that the pathophysiology of even the most discrete of conditions (i.e. schizophrenia) has not been fully established.[/QUOTE]

good I am glad you made that clear...



that is correct..on this diagree..only time will tell





I provided an abundence of studies and alternatives you completly ignored here they are again...

Neuroleptics and Chronic Mental Illness



it is not their field..as a doctor they would spend a portion of time studying all aspects of medicine but it is not their field of expertise and in no way indicates as sky dancer suggest that mental illness is a physical nervous system disorder ..does it

In fact, I provided (and you read) one such study on this thread. Though, I have noticed that you simply ignore items that are inconvenient for your

and I have noticed you interpet information as it suits you...as oppssed to what it really says

Do you mind cleaning up your quotes?

 

[eots]

far more so in psychiatry than anything else...this answer is just an attempt to squirm out of the facts presented


A

bullshit...the study provided no such evidence...you can not examine a cadaver and find proof of mental illness ...stop lying

diagnosis of mental disorders is often believed to be more difficult than diagnosis of somatic, or general medical, disorders, since there is no definitive lesion, laboratory test, or abnormality in brain tissue that can identify the illness. The diagnosis of mental disorders must rest with the patients’ reports of the intensity and duration of symptoms, signs from their mental status examination, and clinician observation of their behavior including functional impairment. These clues are grouped together by the clinician into recognizable patterns known as syndromes. When the syndrome meets all the criteria for a diagnosis, it constitutes a mental disorder.

Mental Health: A Report of the Surgeon General - Chapter 2

no they like to imply it...or claim that the test would be too costly ..dangerous or intrusve..instead of simly stati9ng ...no such test exsit..period

Again, I have never claimed that there is a workable test and safe test that psychiatry can use to make a diagnosis. You have either misunderstood me or are misrepresenting my words when you claim I have. Furthermore, I also agree that the pathophysiology of even the most discrete of conditions (i.e. schizophrenia) has not been fully established.[/QUOTE]

good I am glad you made that clear...



that is correct..on this diagree..only time will tell





I provided an abundence of studies and alternatives you completly ignored here they are again...

Neuroleptics and Chronic Mental Illness



it is not their field..as a doctor they would spend a portion of time studying all aspects of medicine but it is not their field of expertise and in no way indicates as sky dancer suggest that mental illness is a physical nervous system disorder ..does it




and I have noticed you interpet information as it suits you...as oppssed to what it really says

Do you mind cleaning up your quotes?

not at all...

 

[geauxtohell]

not at all...

Thanks. It was getting a little tedious.

I'll get around to responding to your last at a later time/date.

 

[52ndStreet]

Homosexuality, is a form of mental ilness. But the rich powerfull Homo's had it removed from the
American Psychiatrics associations list of known mental ilnesses.

 

[eots]

Homosexuality, is a form of mental ilness. But the rich powerfull Homo's had it removed from the
American Psychiatrics associations list of known mental ilnesses.

I also became aware many years ago that the diagnosis, like changes in clothing fashions, changed with the prevailing attitude toward this condition. Thus, in the early 1950's psychiatrists under the sway of psychoanalysis would not diagnose it unless there was evidence of latent homosexuality. I remember that at one clinical conference the psychiatrist presenting the case had diagnosed the patient schizophrenic and then added that he was homosexual. During the discussion I asked him whether in fact his patient had ever actually been homosexual. He replied that he had not, but he added he must be a latent homosexual since Freud had declared that this was the basis for paranoid schizophrenia.

Hoffer's Home Page

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The serious mental illnesses are genetic. Paranoia, Schizophrenia, Manic Deppressive disorder all run in families and are usually passed down through the female, just like other genetic illnesses. If we could run tests, we could identify the females who are capable of passing mental illness along, and have them sterilized so they can not keep adding to the defective gene pool.
Of course when I brought up this eugenics suggestion at a major university years ago, I was quickly interrupted by a senior professor who informed me and the audience that if we did that, we would prevent the birth of nearly 60% of the geniuses in this country. He was quite adament that genius and insanity are, indeed, linked. My father always used to tell me that Genius is kin to Insanity.

you have no clue what your talking about..there is no proof of mental illness being genetic...it is a theory and nothing more....

Ya except in my family there is proof, My Father had similar problems to me just not as severe, his Mother had them as well. I have them and my sister have them. So much for your bullshit claim, AGAIN.

 

[KittenKoder]

The serious mental illnesses are genetic. Paranoia, Schizophrenia, Manic Deppressive disorder all run in families and are usually passed down through the female, just like other genetic illnesses. If we could run tests, we could identify the females who are capable of passing mental illness along, and have them sterilized so they can not keep adding to the defective gene pool.
Of course when I brought up this eugenics suggestion at a major university years ago, I was quickly interrupted by a senior professor who informed me and the audience that if we did that, we would prevent the birth of nearly 60% of the geniuses in this country. He was quite adament that genius and insanity are, indeed, linked. My father always used to tell me that Genius is kin to Insanity.

you have no clue what your talking about..there is no proof of mental illness being genetic...it is a theory and nothing more....

Ya except in my family there is proof, My Father had similar problems to me just not as severe, his Mother had them as well. I have them and my sister have them. So much for your bullshit claim, AGAIN.

That's circumstantial evidence, not proof.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

you have no clue what your talking about..there is no proof of mental illness being genetic...it is a theory and nothing more....

Ya except in my family there is proof, My Father had similar problems to me just not as severe, his Mother had them as well. I have them and my sister have them. So much for your bullshit claim, AGAIN.

That's circumstantial evidence, not proof.

Sure thing, Eots claims there is no evidence that it is hereditary And the Medical field disagrees with him as does MY experience and my family. But you go on record support the nut job all you want.

 

[KittenKoder]

Ya except in my family there is proof, My Father had similar problems to me just not as severe, his Mother had them as well. I have them and my sister have them. So much for your bullshit claim, AGAIN.

That's circumstantial evidence, not proof.

Sure thing, Eots claims there is no evidence that it is hereditary And the Medical field disagrees with him as does MY experience and my family. But you go on record support the nut job all you want.

No, he said there is no proof, and there is no proof. There is nothing but circumstantial evidence, the same circumstantial evidence that was used to shoved pills down my throat as a child and actually fuck up my brain. My mother had a mental illness ... so according to morons they thought I had it ... well, thanks to those meds, now I actually do, it's just not even close to what my mother had.

 

[eots]

Ya except in my family there is proof, My Father had similar problems to me just not as severe, his Mother had them as well. I have them and my sister have them. So much for your bullshit claim, AGAIN.

That's circumstantial evidence, not proof.

Sure thing, Eots claims there is no evidence that it is hereditary And the Medical field disagrees with him as does MY experience and my family. But you go on record support the nut job all you want.

the truth is the medical community does not unanimously agree on the subject and your so called medical community not to long ago held the common belief mental illness was a sign of latent homosexuality and supported lobotomys..even awarded it the Nobel prize

 

[RetiredGySgt]

That's circumstantial evidence, not proof.

Sure thing, Eots claims there is no evidence that it is hereditary And the Medical field disagrees with him as does MY experience and my family. But you go on record support the nut job all you want.

the truth is the medical community does not unanimously agree on the subject and your so called medical community not to long ago held the common belief mental illness was a sign of latent homosexuality and supported lobotomys..even awarded it the Nobel prize

So now you do not support science? Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[eots]

Sure thing, Eots claims there is no evidence that it is hereditary And the Medical field disagrees with him as does MY experience and my family. But you go on record support the nut job all you want.

the truth is the medical community does not unanimously agree on the subject and your so called medical community not to long ago held the common belief mental illness was a sign of latent homosexuality and supported lobotomys..even awarded it the Nobel prize

So now you do not support science? Thanks for clearing that up.

so you are a latent homosexual that needs a lobotomy...thanks for clearing that up...LOL

 

[RetiredGySgt]

the truth is the medical community does not unanimously agree on the subject and your so called medical community not to long ago held the common belief mental illness was a sign of latent homosexuality and supported lobotomys..even awarded it the Nobel prize

So now you do not support science? Thanks for clearing that up.

so you are a latent homosexual that needs a lobotomy...thanks for clearing that up...LOL

Dumb ass, I recall you arguing in other threads that science revises its self as it learns more, now you are whining cause it works, go figure.

 

[eots]

So now you do not support science? Thanks for clearing that up.

so you are a latent homosexual that needs a lobotomy...thanks for clearing that up...LOL

Dumb ass, I recall you arguing in other threads that science revises its self as it learns more, now you are whining cause it works, go figure.

well being drugged instead of being labeled a latent homo and getting a ice pick in the brain is a step forward..I will concede that much..but with your attitude we would still be there

 

[RetiredGySgt]

so you are a latent homosexual that needs a lobotomy...thanks for clearing that up...LOL

Dumb ass, I recall you arguing in other threads that science revises its self as it learns more, now you are whining cause it works, go figure.

well being drugged instead of being labeled a latent homo and getting a ice pick in the brain is a step forward..I will concede that much..but with your attitude we would still be there

No with your attitude the MILLIONS that drugs help would be without any help. They would be locked up, dead or so miserable they wished they were dead. You oppose progress not I.

 

[eots]

Dumb ass, I recall you arguing in other threads that science revises its self as it learns more, now you are whining cause it works, go figure.

well being drugged instead of being labeled a latent homo and getting a ice pick in the brain is a step forward..I will concede that much..but with your attitude we would still be there

No with your attitude the MILLIONS that drugs help would be without any help. They would be locked up, dead or so miserable they wished they were dead. You oppose progress not I.

oh nonsense...instead of millions being given a life sentence of drugs..more money and research into non-drug therapy's would be employed and use of drugs would be only as a last option and for short term...and dont pretend that the streets are not full of people suffering and no better or worse off than 1950..or that the drugging of the populace is wholesale and out of control....why has mental illness increased every year since the use of these drugs has become common place ?


Hoffer's Home Page

 

[eots]

State Puzzled By Increase in Child Hospitalization Rate
Mark Moran
As hospitalization rates for children and adolescents with mental illness set new records in the state of Washington, experts try to understand why.

Mental illness is now the leading cause of hospitalization among children and adolescents in Washington state, according to a recent study of admission figures by researchers at the University of Washington

State Puzzled By Increase in Child Hospitalization Rate -- Moran 37 (12): 15 -- Psychiatr News