Do you believe in rehabilitation?

[spectrumc01]

Do we or do we not believe in rehabilitation? This should be the question at the root of all of our law and order discussions. This question would resolve all sorts of problems within our legal system, and would take all the questions out of sentecing. Rehabilitation should reflect our societal stance, perhaps a vote is in order? There is no point in saying you believe in rehabilitation and then holding past deeds against someone. For example, would you hire someone who has been convicted for embezzlement to work as a bank teller?, hire someone with a DUI as a driver?, or someone with an assault to work as a customer service representative?

I believe that as a society we don't believe in rehabilitation, and the proof is in our actions. The sexual predator list is a perfect example, followed by the non hireing of the embezzler, and DUI driver. Even the calls made to victims when their assailant is released; all of these prove that we don't believe in rehabilitation. There is nothing wrong with not believing in rehabilitation, or believing in rehabilitation. We just need to get consistant in our application of justice.

If we believe that criminals cannot be rehabilitated then why are we letting them out of prison? This would mean that we need to keep them locked up for life, costing us millions. It would seem that execution would be the logical step for criminals (all criminals of every crime), as we don't believe in rehabilitation.

If we do believe that they can be rehabilitated, then we need to start acting accordingly. Start by ending the sexual predator lists, and restrictions against these people as to where they can work and live. End the death penalty. End the calls to victims. Remove from applications the question, "have you ever been convicted of a crime?"

I hate hypocrites, and we are the most hypocritical society ever when it comes to our justice system. We need to decide once and for all, because the money spent on being indecisive is breaking the bank.

So the poll question is? Do you believe in rehabilitation?

 

[R.D.]

I don't care about it to be honest.

Punishment is the point of prison imo, rehabilitation would be nice but not the point.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Our entire criminal justice/social service system is in failure; as usual prejudice (not necessarily racial) is the cause. The effect is a huge waste of money and humanity.

Elected officials/policy makers are the root cause of this failure and hope for rational non-political change has been piecemeal forever.

The solution is, in my not so humble opinion, the carrot and the stick.

Early intervention is a must; we can reduce crime and the cost of prisons twenty years from now, but the public wants and the policy makers promise immediate solutions. I'm going to withhold my ideas until later; first let the prejudices I noted be aired; then and only then a rational debate might be had.

 

[California Girl]

Frighteningly, I agree with Wry. I already did a thread about what I think we should do. For the record, I think the poll gives this a 'one thing or the other' attitude towards rehabilitation, which it is not. Some people can be rehabilitated, others cannot. So, I believe in rehabilitation, but am realistic enough to know that some people are beyond help.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

It's case by case.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Sorry but i don't give second chances to criminals.

You can rehabilitate all you want but I will never have a criminal work for me. They can't be trusted. Period.

 

[spectrumc01]

Frighteningly, I agree with Wry. I already did a thread about what I think we should do. For the record, I think the poll gives this a 'one thing or the other' attitude towards rehabilitation, which it is not. Some people can be rehabilitated, others cannot. So, I believe in rehabilitation, but am realistic enough to know that some people are beyond help.

So how do you determine which ones can be and which ones can't? Is it the person or the crime that makes that determination? And where does this thinking fit in relations to the sexual predators list and living/working conditions? Why isn't their a list for all crimes on the internet, don't people want to know if a thief or murderer lives in the neighborhood? Race does play a part in the legal system, but I don't believe that it plays that big a part.

 

[westwall]

First off we have a legal system, not a justice system. There is very little justice meted out as that is too hard and the lawyers, judges, etc, oftimes don't care to do the work to ensure that justice is served.

Secondly we as a society have to realise that some people are not rehabable. Pedophiles will allways re-offend. Murderers will most likely re-offend. Some burglers will allways re-offend. You need to look at the individual very closely and determine whether it is even possible. Those that are possible I say give them a chance (no violent felons however should ever be let out of prison) I am talking about non violent offenders only.

 

[Anachronism]

NO. Not at all. I do not believe in Rehabilitation of criminals in any means, manner, or form. Once you have proven that you have no respect for the law, I do not believe that you can ever be trusted again. You definitely cannot be trusted by ME ever again (if you even were in the first place).

 

[JBeukema]

Sorry but i don't give second chances to criminals.

You can rehabilitate all you want but I will never have a criminal work for me. They can't be trusted. Period.

When you get robbed and shot in the gut, you have no right to complain about it. If you don't want to let a man earn an honest dollar, then you are to blame when he provides for himself and his family any way he can.

You are the reason the recidivism rate is so high.

 

[JBeukema]

Frighteningly, I agree with Wry. I already did a thread about what I think we should do. For the record, I think the poll gives this a 'one thing or the other' attitude towards rehabilitation, which it is not. Some people can be rehabilitated, others cannot. So, I believe in rehabilitation, but am realistic enough to know that some people are beyond help.

So how do you determine which ones can be and which ones can't?

During an interview, for instance, one can usually get a feel for whether a person honestly intends to do right or is simply going through the motions. As more time passes, a man proves himself and his character.

Why isn't their a list for all crimes on the internet, don't people want to know if a thief or murderer lives in the neighborhood?

Megan's Law was based on emotion, not reason.

 

[R.D.]

Sorry but i don't give second chances to criminals.

You can rehabilitate all you want but I will never have a criminal work for me. They can't be trusted. Period.

When you get robbed and shot in the gut, you have no right to complain about it. If you don't want to let a man earn an honest dollar, then you are to blame when he provides for himself and his family any way he can.

You are the reason the recidivism rate is so high.

You just took "bleeding heart" to a new low.

Anyone who blames the victim has lost all credibility.

 

[JBeukema]

I'm not 'blaming the victim'. I'm recognizing that many people who end up with records find it hard to find honest work. People who can't get by the honest way are driven to to get by any way they must. People like Skull are part of the problem. Do you really think society benefits from denying a man honest work when he tries to do right?

 

[California Girl]

Frighteningly, I agree with Wry. I already did a thread about what I think we should do. For the record, I think the poll gives this a 'one thing or the other' attitude towards rehabilitation, which it is not. Some people can be rehabilitated, others cannot. So, I believe in rehabilitation, but am realistic enough to know that some people are beyond help.

So how do you determine which ones can be and which ones can't? Is it the person or the crime that makes that determination? And where does this thinking fit in relations to the sexual predators list and living/working conditions? Why isn't their a list for all crimes on the internet, don't people want to know if a thief or murderer lives in the neighborhood? Race does play a part in the legal system, but I don't believe that it plays that big a part.

I think it's a variety of both. I believe in the DP, absolutely, certainly for murders of children, police officers, and those whose crimes are so horrific that they can serve no purpose by continuing their lives. I'd execute pedophiles too. Those people cannot be rehabilitated, no matter what the do gooders think.

Young, first time offenders, can be rehabilitated, and I believe that if we focus on educating them, and giving them a support system when they leave custody, we can save the country a lot of money by investing early in their future. In fact, if we invest in providing a net to catch those kids before they start on the path to criminality, we will not only save the country a fortune, we will save those kids from a crap life and give them a better one.

And... race plays a bit part in our justice system. I think we need to research that and find out why, and put an end to it.

 

[California Girl]

Sorry but i don't give second chances to criminals.

You can rehabilitate all you want but I will never have a criminal work for me. They can't be trusted. Period.

My Dad would disagree. He's employed several kids with criminal backgrounds, and worked with those kids to give them an opportunity to improve their lives. So far, only one has let him down. The rest have gone on to be decent, hard working employees, and decent people.

 

[spectrumc01]

I'm not 'blaming the victim'. I'm recognizing that many people who end up with records find it hard to find honest work. People who can't get by the honest way are driven to to get by any way they must. People like Skull are part of the problem. Do you really think society benefits from denying a man honest work when he tries to do right?

Wow, got me thinking about another aspect. That is the police sting operations, and programs like "to catch a predator". Is it possible that a person that who would never think about commiting a crime. When presented with the oportunity and sold on the idea he can get away with it. Would attempt the crime if he was in the right frame of mind?

If this is the case, are we then not creating our own criminals with our "sting" tactic? Also the show "To catch a predator" needs to be shut down. Civilians have no business in the law enforcement business, most of all civilians who work for media outlets. I don't care if the law enforcement community doesn't mind, or even encourages it, to do so is to promote vigilanteism.

 

[AquaAthena]

Rehabilitation is possible only if the offender wants to change their lives. In order to do so, they first must change their minds.

 

[R.D.]

I'm not 'blaming the victim'. I'm recognizing that many people who end up with records find it hard to find honest work. People who can't get by the honest way are driven to to get by any way they must. People like Skull are part of the problem. Do you really think society benefits from denying a man honest work when he tries to do right?

Yes you are.

You can do all the intellectual gymnastics you want to pretend otherwise it doesn't change the fact

With all the opportunities and entitlements handed out today your mock sensitivity is laughable.

 

[JBeukema]

I'm not 'blaming the victim'. I'm recognizing that many people who end up with records find it hard to find honest work. People who can't get by the honest way are driven to to get by any way they must. People like Skull are part of the problem. Do you really think society benefits from denying a man honest work when he tries to do right?

Wow, got me thinking about another aspect. That is the police sting operations, and programs like "to catch a predator". Is it possible that a person that who would never think about commiting a crime. When presented with the oportunity and sold on the idea he can get away with it. Would attempt the crime if he was in the right frame of mind?

If this is the case, are we then not creating our own criminals with our "sting" tactic? Also the show "To catch a predator" needs to be shut down. Civilians have no business in the law enforcement business, most of all civilians who work for media outlets. I don't care if the law enforcement community doesn't mind, or even encourages it, to do so is to promote vigilanteism.

My understanding is that TCAP never initiated inappropriate contact.

What you're touching on is the line where stings becme entrapment. That is itself sometimes a difficult issue- as was recently discussed in a thread regarding a man the FBI encouraged to pursue jihad (while actively working to ensure he was denied a job). After guiding him to become militarized, they them 'busted' him as a terrorist- one they actively helped create.

 

[JBeukema]

R.D., what do you expect to happen when a man is repeatedly a chance to work an honest job and improve his condition the right way? Look beyond your emotions and consider the broader sociological impact of people like skull and the policies they advocate.