Do you believe in Noahs Ark?

[RetiredGySgt]

Begging the question there Rock. Who said it was a boat? Proof?

Already been debated. It is a boat. But you keep denying it, after all you have a vested interest in NOT having a Christian God.

Agnostic Rock, agnostic. I'm not so full of myself (yet) that I can stand up and declare, "there are no gods." I mean I might be convinced of that but it's a hell of a claim to make without any evidence, because I'd actually be putting it forward as a statement, a claim, not just a statement of personal creed. You might believe there is a God. You can prove your belief simply by stating it. It's your belief, not an objective fact. At the moment there is no way that the existence of a god can be proven so it's all in the realm of belief.

Now, where is the evidence that the form on Mt Ararat is a boat or ship?

Not interested in arguing with you, this has been debated by knowledgable people long before you questioned it. You wouldn't believe if it had engraved on the bow " Noah's Ark"

 

[LiveUninhibited]

The simplest explanation for absurdities in the Bible is that it was a product of its times, written by mere men with no divine guidance. The simplest explanation is not always correct, but I see no compelling/logical arguments for an alternative. The phenomenon of faith perplexes me.

A big regional flood? Probably. A flood that engulfed the world and killed all but two of each animal? No. Looking at core samples of soil around the world negates this. The record of natural history from comparative DNA negates this. The fossil record negates this. The biblical story is a legend loosely based upon something that happened.

why do feel it is important to mock peoples belief systems.....

Why do you feel threatened by christianity?

same reason...mao.....stalin and hitler did......

You want to take over the world?

huh? you ve never even read the story, have you? it gives specific measurements?

Actually yes. The original passage used cubits (.5m)

Genesis 6:13 So God said to Noah, "I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth. 14 So make yourself an ark of cypress [c] wood; make rooms in it and coat it with pitch inside and out. 15 This is how you are to build it: The ark is to be 450 feet long, 75 feet wide and 45 feet high. [d] 16 Make a roof for it and finish [e] the ark to within 18 inches [f] of the top. Put a door in the side of the ark and make lower, middle and upper decks. 17 I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish. 18 But I will establish my covenant with you, and you will enter the ark—you and your sons and your wife and your sons' wives with you. 19 You are to bring into the ark two of all living creatures, male and female, to keep them alive with you. 20 Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive. 21 You are to take every kind of food that is to be eaten and store it away as food for you and for them."

22 Noah did everything just as God commanded him.

BibleGateway.com: Search for a Bible passage in over 35 languages and 50 versions.

As an agnostic I'd just like to say that flamebaiting on the issue of religion is bound to be disruptive to everyone and offensive to believers.

I think whether it's flamebaiting or not depends on the approach. If the OP said something like, "Religous people are fucking stupid," (not my opinion, just an example), that would be flamebaiting. The OP did, in fact, try to present material and arguments to support his side rather than just insult people. I don't think it's legit to say, "I'm sensitive about this issue. Don't discuss it."

Why can't you just allow people their beliefs? They're not hurting you or me. I have expressed a desire to live free from the effects of any religion, but I also feel that people should be able to to live within the dictates of their religious beliefs (provided they don't conflict with secular law) and that they should believe whatever they want.

Many organized religious groups try to impose the doctrine of their religion upon the nation. Some people admit they cannot make decisions that are not informed by their faith. When and where religion is not tempered by secularism, injustice and insanity often prevail (maybe not so much injustice with the Buddhists). Should we value the combination of religion and secularism, or is secularism merely diluting the ill-effects of religion?

Some people say religion causes war. That's not quite correct. What religion does do is devalue our material lives for a mythical afterlife. Therefore, dying for ones religion seems like no sacrifice at all, as you're just going straight to heaven. Therefore, when the upper class has a non-defensive war to fight, religion can be a potent tool for them to get the cooperation of the lower class (though so can secular faiths like nationalism, Edit: So perhaps faith versus reason is the real problem). The opposition is painted as less-than-human, spawn of Satan even, and people are deprived of their humanity.

The devaluing of the material life indirectly hampers scientific progress today, though the effect was much more potent during, say, the Dark Ages. What I mean is that improving the lives of people today is less important when everybody is just going to whatever place they "deserve" in the end anyway.

Social progress is hampered by it as well, as religion causes people to follow ideals of the ancient past instead of looking for a better way.

Without religion we would see that we need to make the most out of this life because it might be all we have. A meaningful life would usually involve some combination of personal pursuit of happiness and service to others, as in a very real sense our social species succeeds collectively.

 

[LiveUninhibited]

And I'm not so sure about the authenticity of the Ararat Ark:

Ararat anomaly - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A more boat-like structure is found near the mountain, not on it. But that also isn't a boat.

After a few expeditions to the Durupınar site that included drillings and excavation in the 1990s, Fasold began to have doubts that the Durupınar formation was Noah's ark. He visited the site in September 1994 with Australian geologist Ian Plimer and concluded that the structure was not a boat.[11] He surmised that ancient peoples had erroneously believed the site was the ark.[12][11][13] In 1996 Fasold co-authored a paper with geologist Lorence Collins entitled "Bogus 'Noah's Ark' from Turkey Exposed as a Common Geologic Structure" which concluded that the boat-shaped formation was a curious upwelling of mud that merely resembled a boat.[13] In April 1997, during sworn testimony during an Australian court case, Fasold repeated his doubts and noted that he regarded the claim that Noah's ark had been found as "absolute BS".[14][15][16]

Durupınar site - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Diuretic]

Already been debated. It is a boat. But you keep denying it, after all you have a vested interest in NOT having a Christian God.

Agnostic Rock, agnostic. I'm not so full of myself (yet) that I can stand up and declare, "there are no gods." I mean I might be convinced of that but it's a hell of a claim to make without any evidence, because I'd actually be putting it forward as a statement, a claim, not just a statement of personal creed. You might believe there is a God. You can prove your belief simply by stating it. It's your belief, not an objective fact. At the moment there is no way that the existence of a god can be proven so it's all in the realm of belief.

Now, where is the evidence that the form on Mt Ararat is a boat or ship?

Not interested in arguing with you, this has been debated by knowledgable people long before you questioned it. You wouldn't believe if it had engraved on the bow " Noah's Ark"

If it was in English I'd be a wee bit suspicious

 

[Diuretic]

The flood myth that probably represents an actual event, is found in many religions. We even have a word, "antideluvian", to describe it. Atlantis? Antideluvian. It proves nothing except that there was probably some sort of catastrophic flood event during human history.

 

[YWN666]

There are too many glaring inconsistencies in the story for it to have actually happened.

 

[Care4all]

nothing but pure ignorance would make someone say that the Flood didn't happen.....and that there isn't some truth in this....as with all myths even, there is always a part of it with truth...

There are too many stories in ancient writings about this great flood for it not to have happened.

 

[LiveUninhibited]

nothing but pure ignorance would make someone say that the Flood didn't happen.....and that there isn't some truth in this....as with all myths even, there is always a part of it with truth...

There are too many stories in ancient writings about this great flood for it not to have happened.

The main issue is that it could not have happened in the same way or extent that the Bible says. People shouldn't just shrug at the Bible as not meant to be taken literally if they see it as the word of God. The Bible calls itself perfect, as well it would be if it were the word of God. The Bible's language in this story and many others reflects an ignorance about the world that was an inevitable limitation of people writing at the time, i.e. a product of its time, not the word of an omniscient being.

 

[Diuretic]

The main issue is that it could not have happened in the same way or extent that the Bible says. People shouldn't just shrug at the Bible as not meant to be taken literally if they see it as the word of God. The Bible calls itself perfect, as well it would be if it were the word of God. The Bible's language in this story and many others reflects an ignorance about the world that was an inevitable limitation of people writing at the time, i.e. a product of its time, not the word of an omniscient being.

The fact that the flood myth is so widespread in various religions is interesting, to me at least. I think that a flood event did occur and that it occurred during the time of early homo sapiens. It's almost as if oral accounts of the event were handed down across generations of homo sapiens in various parts of the globe. No doubt scientists and theologians and others can pull that idea apart but I just wonder why it's such a widespread human myth.

 

[KittenKoder]

Simple answer to OP: No.

Reasoning: Not only is there no evidence to support it, it is impossible. Although it could be based on an actual event that happened in some little dark corner of the world (which is likely) the myth itself as stated could never have happened.

 

[Godboy]

I believe in Noah's Ark as do lots of Christians. Ohh ya explain how that big ass boat got on top of that mountain?

Certainly there was a flood of some kind, but we all know that stuff has been going on since theres been oceans of water on earth. That doesnt however explain the story about all the animals on earth getting onto a boat with some old guy.

Theres a world of difference between catacalyismic event that created a flood, and a story about a guy instructed by god to save 2 of every animal on earth. The number of animals he would have to have on the boat would be staggering. Another problem is boats in noahs time werent sea worthy, because it was before the iron age, and without metal banding, you cant make an ocean vessel stay together. It would sink very quickly once the wood began to expand, leaving gaps between the planks. Since this happened 1500 years before the Iron Age, im guessing Noah would have had some difficulty in finding a good saw to cut the wood with.

I would also mention, the flood story is incompatible with the Christian concept of a loving, omniscient god. Apart from that, god's great flood idea didn't rid the world of 'evil people' after all. Way into the 21st century, there are still 'evil' people around. God failed.

...and what about the fact that noahs story is almost identical to the story of Gilgamesh, which predates the noah story? Doesnt this stand out as another example plagerism in the bible?

There were also records found of civilizations that existed before, during and after the fictional flood who didn't mention anything about a global flood. Therefore, the global flood story was simply made up, or it was simply a local flood that was blown into Biblical proportions. The water requirement for covering the earth fifteen cubits up is also simply implausible. No creationist has ever come up with a plausible explanation for it.

The animal problems are the most absurd of all. The dietary and environmental requirements for all the animals (koalas, for example) would make the logistics impossible. How could the koalas get fresh eucalyptus leaves on the ark? Did the carnivores suddenly turn vegetarian on the ark? Any rational person would see the problems faced by carnivores, parasites, and microorganisms. What about the hosts for the parasites?

Now for the human problem. There was no way for Noah and his family to manage the tasks of keeping the ark in order throughout the flood. Are you now going to also claim that god endowed them with superhuman powers, or that god was 'working through them'? DNA markers also show that it is impossible to claim that all living humans were descended from Noah and his family.

Did the saltwater and freshwater fish decide to throw a free-for-all open house and come out of it alive when the waters mixed during the flood?

So many things point to this being just an ordinary fairy tale.

God was a vengeful sort in most of the Old Testament. And he said he would never again flood the world. But back to the Boat. What kind of flood puts a boat that HIGH on a mountain?

What kind of flood puts a boat the high on a mountain? Thats a good question. There isnt enough water in the world to raise the water levels to 17,000 feet, so it probably wasnt a flood that got the boat there. While i dont exactly have an answer to your question (no one does), that doesnt mean it must have been because god flooded the world and noahs boat ended up there. Maybe the people in that area built a big ass boat on top of the mountain because they were afraid of a catastropic water event like the one they read about in Gilgamesh's story, or maybe they built one there because they had a crazy leader who told them to do so. Ancient people built all sorts of bizarre stuff, including pyrimids for dead kings.

 

[KittenKoder]

Certainly there was a flood of some kind, but we all know that stuff has been going on since theres been oceans of water on earth. That doesnt however explain the story about all the animals on earth getting onto a boat with some old guy.

Theres a world of difference between catacalyismic event that created a flood, and a story about a guy instructed by god to save 2 of every animal on earth. The number of animals he would have to have on the boat would be staggering. Another problem is boats in noahs time werent sea worthy, because it was before the iron age, and without metal banding, you cant make an ocean vessel stay together. It would sink very quickly once the wood began to expand, leaving gaps between the planks. Since this happened 1500 years before the Iron Age, im guessing Noah would have had some difficulty in finding a good saw to cut the wood with.

I would also mention, the flood story is incompatible with the Christian concept of a loving, omniscient god. Apart from that, god's great flood idea didn't rid the world of 'evil people' after all. Way into the 21st century, there are still 'evil' people around. God failed.

...and what about the fact that noahs story is almost identical to the story of Gilgamesh, which predates the noah story? Doesnt this stand out as another example plagerism in the bible?

There were also records found of civilizations that existed before, during and after the fictional flood who didn't mention anything about a global flood. Therefore, the global flood story was simply made up, or it was simply a local flood that was blown into Biblical proportions. The water requirement for covering the earth fifteen cubits up is also simply implausible. No creationist has ever come up with a plausible explanation for it.

The animal problems are the most absurd of all. The dietary and environmental requirements for all the animals (koalas, for example) would make the logistics impossible. How could the koalas get fresh eucalyptus leaves on the ark? Did the carnivores suddenly turn vegetarian on the ark? Any rational person would see the problems faced by carnivores, parasites, and microorganisms. What about the hosts for the parasites?

Now for the human problem. There was no way for Noah and his family to manage the tasks of keeping the ark in order throughout the flood. Are you now going to also claim that god endowed them with superhuman powers, or that god was 'working through them'? DNA markers also show that it is impossible to claim that all living humans were descended from Noah and his family.

Did the saltwater and freshwater fish decide to throw a free-for-all open house and come out of it alive when the waters mixed during the flood?

So many things point to this being just an ordinary fairy tale.

God was a vengeful sort in most of the Old Testament. And he said he would never again flood the world. But back to the Boat. What kind of flood puts a boat that HIGH on a mountain?

What kind of flood puts a boat the high on a mountain? Thats a good question. There isnt enough water in the world to raise the water levels to 17,000 feet, so it probably wasnt a flood that got the boat there. While i dont exactly have an answer to your question (no one does), that doesnt mean it must have been because god flooded the world and noahs boat ended up there. Maybe the people in that area built a big ass boat on top of the mountain because they were afraid of a catastropic water event like the one they read about in Gilgamesh's story, or maybe they built one there because they had a crazy leader who told them to do so. Ancient people built all sorts of bizarre stuff, including pyrimids for dead kings.

Actually ... notice one fatal flaw in this "evidence" ... they found pieces and never found a whole boat of any sort. So ... they could have ended up there in any number of ways.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

GOD PROVIDED

Man, poor Noah. Why didn't God just provide them with a magical boat so Noah wouldn't had to build such a big boat? Why didn't God just provide a time machine that took them to after the flood?

Here are some other questions I'd like to hear answered:

So everyone in the world except Noah and his family were evil?

Did Noah put all the animals from North and South America on the boat too, and then, before landing on Mt. Ararat, did he drop them off again in the New World? What about Australia? Did he transport funnel web spiders, cause they aren't very nice, and I don't think a merciful God would keep those. Did he have a snake section in the ark for the thousands of different snake species? And bugs? Did two of every virus and bacteria also travel on the Ark? What about plant species? Where did that olive branch show up from when only land above 17,000 feet was exposed? Olive trees don't grow that high. How did it signify the end of the flood?

Because God said so, that's why. Oh, sheesh, I should've known!

The Bible is true! How do I know? Cause the Bible tells me so...

 

[KittenKoder]

GOD PROVIDED

Man, poor Noah. Why didn't God just provide them with a magical boat so Noah wouldn't had to build such a big boat? Why didn't God just provide a time machine that took them to after the flood?

Here are some other questions I'd like to hear answered:

So everyone in the world except Noah and his family were evil?

Did Noah put all the animals from North and South America on the boat too, and then, before landing on Mt. Ararat, did he drop them off again in the New World? What about Australia? Did he transport funnel web spiders, cause they aren't very nice, and I don't think a merciful God would keep those. Did he have a snake section in the ark for the thousands of different snake species? And bugs? Did two of every virus and bacteria also travel on the Ark? What about plant species? Where did that olive branch show up from when only land above 17,000 feet was exposed? Olive trees don't grow that high. How did it signify the end of the flood?

Because God said so, that's why. Oh, sheesh, I should've known!

The Bible is true! How do I know? Cause the Bible tells me so...

Just the thought of someone in that era being able to place them ALL back in their own environments and places is ... well ... mind boggling, at least it's mind boggling that people believe it.

 

[N4mddissent]

The main issue is that it could not have happened in the same way or extent that the Bible says. People shouldn't just shrug at the Bible as not meant to be taken literally if they see it as the word of God. The Bible calls itself perfect, as well it would be if it were the word of God. The Bible's language in this story and many others reflects an ignorance about the world that was an inevitable limitation of people writing at the time, i.e. a product of its time, not the word of an omniscient being.

The fact that the flood myth is so widespread in various religions is interesting, to me at least. I think that a flood event did occur and that it occurred during the time of early homo sapiens. It's almost as if oral accounts of the event were handed down across generations of homo sapiens in various parts of the globe. No doubt scientists and theologians and others can pull that idea apart but I just wonder why it's such a widespread human myth.

Here's my theory. Early human settlements were almost always near large sources of water- for transportation, for drinking, for irrigation, etc... If you live near a large body of water, there is a good chance that at some point a tragic flood will occur with only a few survivors. Therefore, to me, the fact that a "flood" story is found in so many mythologies is not surprising, but rather expected since it would have been a relatively frequent and powerful experience for many disparate groups living on fertile flood plains.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Here's my theory. Early human settlements were almost always near large sources of water- for transportation, for drinking, for irrigation, etc... If you live near a large body of water, there is a good chance that at some point a tragic flood will occur with only a few survivors. Therefore, to me, the fact that a "flood" story is found in so many mythologies is not surprising, but rather expected since it would have been a relatively frequent and powerful experience for many disparate groups living on fertile flood plains.

No way! The Bible story is way more believable than that!

 

[KittenKoder]

Also ... at the times of these ancient myths the "world" was not much more than they could see at the top of a mountain ... and even then many thought is was much smaller.

 

[Amanda]

Isnt it a little naive to assume that god only did these magical things back in a time when history couldnt be accurately recorded? Why arent men of today parting the red sea, or talking to burning bushes, or walking on water, coming back from the dead, having virgin births, curing the blind, or becoming beast masters like Noah? Why dont magical things happen today?

I could only get through 2 pages before I noticed a pattern developing and I came across this post and knew this was what I was supposed to respond to.

I could tell you that I think everyday life is a miracle but I don't think that would impress you very much, so I will play along in the manner I think you want...

What makes you think that those things aren't happening? Just to pick the 2 easiest coming back from the dead and curing the blind I'd say these things happen on a pretty regular basis. As for the others... just because you don't see it on CNN doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

 

[N4mddissent]

Isnt it a little naive to assume that god only did these magical things back in a time when history couldnt be accurately recorded? Why arent men of today parting the red sea, or talking to burning bushes, or walking on water, coming back from the dead, having virgin births, curing the blind, or becoming beast masters like Noah? Why dont magical things happen today?

I could only get through 2 pages before I noticed a pattern developing and I came across this post and knew this was what I was supposed to respond to.

I could tell you that I think everyday life is a miracle but I don't think that would impress you very much, so I will play along in the manner I think you want...

What makes you think that those things aren't happening? Just to pick the 2 easiest coming back from the dead and curing the blind I'd say these things happen on a pretty regular basis. As for the others... just because you don't see it on CNN doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Well, how about this. If god knows I'm a rational being who struggles to accept these ideas. As an individual who is not necessarily antagonistic to religious belief, but finds that reason and logic are an impediment to faith, I ask god to show me a miracle because if I see an indisputable miracle like some of the ones described, then I will be able to overcome the mental obstacles and devote my life to his will. And then he doesn't. Then what, am I to assume he hates me and wants me to not believe?

I saw it best summed up on a bumper sticker. Who are you to question why god doesn't want me to believe in him?

 

[Amanda]

Isnt it a little naive to assume that god only did these magical things back in a time when history couldnt be accurately recorded? Why arent men of today parting the red sea, or talking to burning bushes, or walking on water, coming back from the dead, having virgin births, curing the blind, or becoming beast masters like Noah? Why dont magical things happen today?

I could only get through 2 pages before I noticed a pattern developing and I came across this post and knew this was what I was supposed to respond to.

I could tell you that I think everyday life is a miracle but I don't think that would impress you very much, so I will play along in the manner I think you want...

What makes you think that those things aren't happening? Just to pick the 2 easiest coming back from the dead and curing the blind I'd say these things happen on a pretty regular basis. As for the others... just because you don't see it on CNN doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Well, how about this. If god knows I'm a rational being who struggles to accept these ideas. As an individual who is not necessarily antagonistic to religious belief, but finds that reason and logic are an impediment to faith, I ask god to show me a miracle because if I see an indisputable miracle like some of the ones described, then I will be able to overcome the mental obstacles and devote my life to his will. And then he doesn't. Then what, am I to assume he hates me and wants me to not believe?

I saw it best summed up on a bumper sticker. Who are you to question why god doesn't want me to believe in him?

It's a faith thing, no proof is required.