Do you believe in evolution?

[Missourian]

So, how did the fish learn to breathe on the land?

First, the question is very poorly worded.

Secondly, many fish breath air, dolphins are actually mammals, not fish, which are very close to land animals. The next evolutionary side step would be the seal family, which have many sea mammal and land mammal traits. There are so many things to explain, but I hope that answers enough to get you to look it up.

Seals and dolphins are both mammals, not fish.

 

[Ravi]

Beta fish breathe air...and don't goldfish? Manatees to cows, monkeys to humans...that was an awesome link that xotoxi posted, though I'm sure the Creationists can explain it away as just a little test of faith on God's part.

We are all mutated monkeys.

 

[Missourian]

So, how did the fish learn to breathe on the land?

First, the question is very poorly worded.

Secondly, many fish breath air, dolphins are actually mammals, not fish, which are very close to land animals. The next evolutionary side step would be the seal family, which have many sea mammal and land mammal traits. There are so many things to explain, but I hope that answers enough to get you to look it up.

OK, I did my due diligence...seals supposedly evolved from bears and dolphins from something like a pig, camel of hippo.

Seals: Recent molecular evidence suggests that pinnipeds evolved from a bearlike ancestor about 23 million years ago during the late Oligocene or early Miocene epochs, a transitional period between the warmer Paleogene and cooler Neogene period.[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinniped#Evolution

Dolphins: along with whales and porpoises, are descendants of terrestrial mammals, most likely of the Artiodactyl order. The ancestors of the modern day dolphins entered the water roughly fifty million years ago, in the Eocene epoch. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolphin#Evolution

The even-toed ungulates form the mammal order Artiodactyla, the group that contains the pigs, peccaries, hippopotamuses, camels, chevrotains (mouse deers), deer, giraffes, pronghorn, antelopes, sheep, goats, and cattle. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artiodactyl​

 

[KittenKoder]

So, how did the fish learn to breathe on the land?

First, the question is very poorly worded.

Secondly, many fish breath air, dolphins are actually mammals, not fish, which are very close to land animals. The next evolutionary side step would be the seal family, which have many sea mammal and land mammal traits. There are so many things to explain, but I hope that answers enough to get you to look it up.

Seals and dolphins are both mammals, not fish.

... and you don't "learn to breathe on land."

 

[Missourian]

Beta fish breathe air...and don't goldfish? Manatees to cows, monkeys to humans...that was an awesome link that xotoxi posted, though I'm sure the Creationists can explain it away as just a little test of faith on God's part.

We are all mutated monkeys.

Ok, let's take the Beta Fish, which I think is a Siamese Fighting Fish.

It wouldn't be my first choice, but it will due.

These Beta fish, did they live in an area where oxygen in the water was low, or did the oxygen levels in the water drop over time or did they live close to an area that had low oxygen levels?

 

[tigerbob]

We are all mutated monkeys.

I'm not.

 

[Coyote]

When ever someone asks me if I "believe" in evolution I want to turn around and ask "Do you believe in gravity"?

 

[Ravi]

Beta fish breathe air...and don't goldfish? Manatees to cows, monkeys to humans...that was an awesome link that xotoxi posted, though I'm sure the Creationists can explain it away as just a little test of faith on God's part.

We are all mutated monkeys.

Ok, let's take the Beta Fish, which I think is a Siamese Fighting Fish.

It wouldn't be my first choice, but it will due.

These Beta fish, did they live in an area where oxygen in the water was low, or did the oxygen levels in the water drop over time or did they live close to an area that had low oxygen levels?

I don't know, why do you ask?

 

[Coyote]

Here's another example of an air breathing fish: Fish Lives in Logs, Breathing Air, for Months at a Time


Truly a bizarre fish, appears to be a hermaphrodite too

 

[Care4all]

We are all mutated monkeys.

I'm not.

i'm not either, THAT I am certain!

 

[Missourian]

Beta fish breathe air...and don't goldfish? Manatees to cows, monkeys to humans...that was an awesome link that xotoxi posted, though I'm sure the Creationists can explain it away as just a little test of faith on God's part.

We are all mutated monkeys.

Ok, let's take the Beta Fish, which I think is a Siamese Fighting Fish.

It wouldn't be my first choice, but it will due.

These Beta fish, did they live in an area where oxygen in the water was low, or did the oxygen levels in the water drop over time or did they live close to an area that had low oxygen levels?

I don't know, why do you ask?

The same reason I ask if a giraffe had a complex rete mirabile before it's neck reached a length that would require it, and if so why?

Circulatory system


Giraffes bending down to drink


Modifications to the giraffe's structure have evolved, particularly to the circulatory system. A giraffe's heart, which can weigh up to 10 kg (22 lb) and measure about 60 cm (2 ft) long, must generate approximately double the normal blood pressure for an average large mammal to maintain blood flow to the brain. In the upper neck, a complex pressure-regulation system called the rete mirabile prevents excess blood flow to the brain when the giraffe lowers its head to drink. Conversely, the blood vessels in the lower legs are under great pressure (because of the weight of fluid pressing down on them). In other animals such pressure would force the blood out through the capillary walls; giraffes, however, have a very tight sheath of thick skin over their lower limbs which maintains high extravascular pressure in the same way as a pilot's g-suit.

Giraffe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
​

Or how Tiger Moths knew bats had sonar:

By emitting high-pitched sounds and listening to the echoes, also known as sonar, microbats locate prey and other nearby objects. This is the process of echolocation, an ability they share with dolphins and whales. Two groups of moths exploit the bats' senses: tiger moths produce ultrasonic signals to warn the bats that the moths are chemically-protected (aposematism) (this was once thought to be the biological equivalent of "radar jamming", but this theory is still unconfirmed); the moths Noctuidae have a hearing organ called a tympanum which responds to an incoming bat signal by causing the moth's flight muscles to twitch erratically, sending the moth into random evasive manoeuvres.

Bat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
​

Or how the North American Black Walnut Tree outside my window managed to concoct a toxin to eliminate it's competition:

The roots, nut husks, and leaves secrete a substance into the soil called juglone that is a respiratory inhibitor to some plants, such as [tomato plants]. A number of other plants (most notably white birch) are also poisoned by juglone, and should not be planted in close proximity to a black walnut.

Juglans nigra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


​

Can these ultra specific characteristics (and these are just three I know of the top of my head) simply be the results of random processes? I think not.

 

[Missourian]

OK, I did my due diligence...seals supposedly evolved from bears and dolphins from something like a pig, camel of hippo.

Seals: Recent molecular evidence suggests that pinnipeds evolved from a bearlike ancestor about 23 million years ago during the late Oligocene or early Miocene epochs, a transitional period between the warmer Paleogene and cooler Neogene period.[1] Pinniped - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dolphins: along with whales and porpoises, are descendants of terrestrial mammals, most likely of the Artiodactyl order. The ancestors of the modern day dolphins entered the water roughly fifty million years ago, in the Eocene epoch. Dolphin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The even-toed ungulates form the mammal order Artiodactyla, the group that contains the pigs, peccaries, hippopotamuses, camels, chevrotains (mouse deers), deer, giraffes, pronghorn, antelopes, sheep, goats, and cattle. Even-toed ungulate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
​

Why and how would dolphins re-enter the water?

Did they just hang out next to the ocean until they grew some fins?

 

[manifold]

Dolphins don't have gills.

 

[Ravi]

​

Can these ultra specific characteristics (and these are just three I know of the top of my head) simply be the results of random processes? I think not.

Why ever not?

 

[Missourian]

Dolphins don't have gills.

Sorry, that should say fins.

 

[Missourian]

Can these ultra specific characteristics (and these are just three I know of the top of my head) simply be the results of random processes? I think not.

Why ever not?

Because a giraffe wouldn't need a rete mirabile until it's neck reached a certain length...and by then it would be too late to attain one thru mutation and natural selection. It's the chicken and the egg.


And a moth that is not only toxic to bats...but warns them it is toxic to them...using an ultrasonic frequency only bats can hear...all at random!

Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

 

[Ravi]

Can these ultra specific characteristics (and these are just three I know of the top of my head) simply be the results of random processes? I think not.

Why ever not?

Because a giraffe wouldn't need a rete mirabile until it's neck reached a certain length...and by then it would be too late to attain one thru mutation and natural selection. It's the chicken and the egg.


And a moth that is not only toxic to bats...but warms them it is toxic to them...using an ultrasonic frequency only bats can hear...all at random!

Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

I don't think you understand what evolutionists mean when they use the word random.

The mutation is random. For instance, the black walnut tree. Once upon a time a black walnut tree sprouted and it had a mutation that allowed it to excrete a toxic substance. It mated with another black walnut tree and half of their offspring contained this mutant gene. Eventually their ability to eliminate to competition gave them the ability to be the dominant subspecies and the rest of the non-mutant black walnuts died off. Viola!

If you prefer to think God is up there saying, hmmmm...looks like those black walnuts need some help and waves his magic wand...that is your business.

 

[Missourian]

Why ever not?

Because a giraffe wouldn't need a rete mirabile until it's neck reached a certain length...and by then it would be too late to attain one thru mutation and natural selection. It's the chicken and the egg.


And a moth that is not only toxic to bats...but warms them it is toxic to them...using an ultrasonic frequency only bats can hear...all at random!

Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

I don't think you understand what evolutionists mean when they use the word random.

The mutation is random. For instance, the black walnut tree. Once upon a time a black walnut tree sprouted and it had a mutation that allowed it to excrete a toxic substance. It mated with another black walnut tree and half of their offspring contained this mutant gene. Eventually their ability to eliminate to competition gave them the ability to be the dominant subspecies and the rest of the non-mutant black walnuts died off. Viola!

If you prefer to think God is up there saying, hmmmm...looks like those black walnuts need some help and waves his magic wand...that is your business.

Right, I got that, but you say "it got a mutation that allowed it to excrete a toxic substance" like that is so simple.

That's like saying, "one day a man was born who had a mutation that allowed him to exhaled cyanide".

 

[Ravi]

Because a giraffe wouldn't need a rete mirabile until it's neck reached a certain length...and by then it would be too late to attain one thru mutation and natural selection. It's the chicken and the egg.


And a moth that is not only toxic to bats...but warms them it is toxic to them...using an ultrasonic frequency only bats can hear...all at random!

Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

I don't think you understand what evolutionists mean when they use the word random.

The mutation is random. For instance, the black walnut tree. Once upon a time a black walnut tree sprouted and it had a mutation that allowed it to excrete a toxic substance. It mated with another black walnut tree and half of their offspring contained this mutant gene. Eventually their ability to eliminate to competition gave them the ability to be the dominant subspecies and the rest of the non-mutant black walnuts died off. Viola!

If you prefer to think God is up there saying, hmmmm...looks like those black walnuts need some help and waves his magic wand...that is your business.

Right, I got that, but you say "it got a mutation that allowed it to excrete a toxic substance" like that is so simple.

That's like saying, "one day a man was born who had a mutation that allowed him to exhaled cyanide".

I think that is a little far-fetched. One day a man (or woman) woke up and figured out how to grow crops instead of just gather them...and things progressed from there.

Natural selection, in my opinion, ensures the survival of the species. Exhaling cyanide wouldn't ensure the survival of human kind...so this person would probably be put to death.

 

[KittenKoder]

Problem, looking at evolution as single origin is one major flaw in many who ignore it. As I said, it's far ore complicated than that. Medical scientists only learn a very tiny part when they learn about viral mutation/evolution. Most zoologists know only a very small portion of the science to. Hell, those who study evolutionary science exclusively tend to know less than half each, thus why all the collaboration between them. It would be the equivalent of knowing how every technology on the planet works as well as how to repair it, use it, and make it.