Do You Agree That We Have To Do BOTH...

[liebuster]

We need to create a flat tax with NO DEDUCTIONS. That is the only equal way to tax.

Along with that we need to cut most of our foreign military bases/spending, cut useless defense programs, redesign social security with an opt out plan for young workers like myself that will never see a penny, rework our social programs to make it uncomfortable for the people to mooch of the gov, dismantle the EPA, Dept of Edu, Fed Reserve, FCC, and a whole bunch of other programs.

And most of all we need to stop fighting other peoples wars for them.

Doing all those things will get our budget under control and we will actually have some gold bullion in the treasury

 

[Rinata]

Tax the rich more AND cut spending?

Yes or no?

Why/why not?

That makes the most sense, I think.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Tax the rich more AND cut spending?

Yes or no?

Why/why not?

We need to cut spending. And if more taxes are needed they need to be fairly applied across the board. Just because a person makes more money does not mean they should have to pay a higher percentage of that money in taxes.

By the way when are you going to force your dead beat iberal buddies into actually paying the taxes they already owe? You remember how many appointees by Obama were delinquent?

 

[liebuster]

"All men are created equal." I believe that line was penned right before a bunch of white land owning men sat down to decide exactly what portion of a human being a black slave would be considered, for congressional representation.

.

Just so you know the abolitionists wanted the slaves to count as ZERO PEOPLE

The reason they wanted them to count as zero is because the slave owning states would have less representation in the house then if the slaves counted as a full person.

The 2/3rds law was a compromise created to try to bring an eventual end to slavery with out causing another revolution.

 

[digger]

^^^^I agree. Everyone should give the same portion of their income as taxes. The rich should be paying much, much more. You're only looking at income tax.

^ I thought it was 3/5s? Anyway, you get my point? Our history has been a slow march towards more freedom and more equality. Those who think we need to go backwards to find liberties we have lost don't really understand history.

 

[liebuster]

^^^^I agree. Everyone should give the same portion of their income as taxes. The rich should be paying much, much more. You're only looking at income tax.

^ I thought it was 3/5s? Anyway, you get my point? Our history has been a slow march towards more freedom and more equality. Those who think we need to go backwards to find liberties we have lost don't really understand history.

Your right its 3/5ths.

Equality is not given by the government, it is earned by oneself.

Taxing someone who is rich a higher percentage than a poor person is not "equal"

Having the government create mandates for agencies to hire a certain % of minorities is not "equal" to all races.

Creating Small business loans and grants only for women and minorities is not "equal"

Creating lower test scores for minorities is not "equal"

Bailing out only the big banks while letting the small ones fail is not "equal"



Liberty is not given by Government it is taken away by government

Forcing people to buy a product or service is not "Liberty"

Taking more of peoples money is not "Liberty"

Telling people they have to wait for a firearm is not "Liberty"

Creating a giant Ponzi scheme in the form of social security is not "Liberty"

Taking my money and funding the United Nations with it is not "Liberty"



You have a lot to learn. I suggest you start looking into the roots of progressivism starting with Teddy Roosevelt. Also search links between progressivism and eugenics, propaganda, Hitler, etc, etc.

 

[digger]

Oh, brother. You been watching Glenn Beck? I watch him occasionally, just to keep my finger on the pulse. Your last paragraph was his whole spiel in a nutshell. I'm familiar with it, and I'm not impressed. You don't think he's being paranoid?

I mean it's so simplistic. Progressives are the root of all that is horrible in our country. They are ruining our economy and costing us our liberties, and if we could get rid of them, everything would be fine again. It's just not true. Our greatest period of prosperity was right after WWII, when the highest income tax bracket was 90% to pay off the war debt, and the GI bill was creating the great American middle class.

You can't look backwards to find the free market utopia you want to live in. It isn't there. Early on, we had the robber barons. But they got busted. We've got a long, long history of busting trusts in this country. And you should be glad we do. An unregulated free market turns into a monopoly pretty quickly. Rockefeller said that competition is a sin.

Your view of government is simplistic too. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad. Sometimes it threatens liberty, sometimes it expands it. There are more powers at work than just the government. The robber barons are still there, constantly scheming, looking for a way to put us back under their heel. And government is what protects us from them.

In recent years the rich have gradually taken more and more control of our government. This is a huge problem. But the solution isn't to get rid of government and leave us with the fat cats. The solution is to get the fat cats out of the government.

I'm not sure if this is the thread to debate affirmative action in. I take it that you're color blind?

 

[auditor0007]

No. We need to cut spending.

Everyone should be equal in the taxes they pay. One group of people should not be paying a higher or lower percentage of their income because of their success or lack thereof. The law should treat all individuals equally instead of dividing them into groups.

If you want to create a flat tax that applies to every individuals equally and eliminate the loopsholes. Then maybe we can talk about raising taxes. But until you guys support revamping the tax system so that everyone is equal, we shouldn't be discussing any sort of raise in taxes.

So would you allow any deductions or exemptions whatsoever? I would love to see a flat tax across the board on everyone with a $10,000 exemption for each individual including children. So a family of four would receive $30,000 non-taxable income. All income beyond the exempted income would be taxable at 20% or whatever rate is determined to be necessary. On top of that, payroll taxes would have no cap. That would be fair to everyone. This would make everyone equal, would it not? Or would you complain that those making less than their exempted income amount weren't paying their fair share even though everyone making more than that didn't have to pay taxes on that initial income either?

 

[Epsilon Delta]

Yes, you have to do both, particularly raise taxes and cut military spending as well find long-term solutions to the growth in health care spending.

Estate, capital and income taxes should be raised to Clinton-era levels, and the proposed 5.4 tax on incomes above $1,000,000 should be imposed. The payroll tax cap should be raised to $180,000 (from $106,000 - this would help funding SS better) so that it can re-capture revenue lost since the cap stopped being raised on par with inflation a while back. Then, deductions for high-income households should be looked at and eliminated. A bank tax or tobin/financial transaction tax could be applied too, if the proposal can be propelled at a global level (ie, if the G20 countries all agreed to it). This package of taxes would go a looong way towards erasing the deficit without jeopardizing the fragile economic recovery underway.

On the spending side you got the Pentagon. Reducing the nuclear arsenal further, reducing troop numbers in Asia and Europe, reducing the navy and air force, cancelling new shiny weapons programs, all would be helpful. Agricultural subsidies should also be looked at. As far as controlling health costs, there's many things - Medicare should use the weight to negotiate cheaper drug prices, but other policies could be useful (ie, the idea of instituting programs for giving seniors the option to buy into other countries' [cheaper] health systems through vouchers and splitting the cost difference with the government.) Medical malpractice reform would be handy as well, eliminating the need for doctors to buy expensive malpractice insurance which force them to (justly) demand higher wages, as well as discouraging excessive care.

This deficit problem is solvable. But taxes will need to be raised one way or another, and solutions for long-term spending growth sectors have to be put in place.

 

[digger]

Tax the rich. Tax them more. Tax them harder. You think that when they talk to each other, they're like "we're all just Americans and we should all be treated equally." Hell no. They're out to get us. They're all in it together, and they want MORE. It's a class war whether we like it or not. And if we don't fight, than they'll just keep on taking more.

 

[digger]

Yeah, get rid of the nukes. Can anyone think of any reason that we need to have over 5 k nukes? How many times do we need to blow everything up? I mean, can anyone think of a reason that we need to have more than 1k nukes? More than 500? Could you picture the president launching 450 nukes and then being like, dang, I've only got 50 left, better start saving them.

 

[auditor0007]

We need to create a flat tax with NO DEDUCTIONS. That is the only equal way to tax.

Along with that we need to cut most of our foreign military bases/spending, cut useless defense programs, redesign social security with an opt out plan for young workers like myself that will never see a penny, rework our social programs to make it uncomfortable for the people to mooch of the gov, dismantle the EPA, Dept of Edu, Fed Reserve, FCC, and a whole bunch of other programs.

And most of all we need to stop fighting other peoples wars for them.

Doing all those things will get our budget under control and we will actually have some gold bullion in the treasury

No deductions or exemptions at all; now that sounds very fair. This way those earning the least will pay the highest percentage in taxes once you add in sales taxes, excise taxes, property taxes, state taxes, and any other taxes out there. Nice trick. This would really benefit the truly wealthy and further destroy the middle class. As for the poor, hey, fuck them.

 

[digger]

Good point.