Do Violent Video Games Create Over Aggressive People?

[BrianH]

I've been reading about video games and it's effects on young children and teenagers. The ongoing study of experts shows that violent video games contribute to more aggressive people.

Studies have found that children who play violent video games:

-See the world as a more hostil place.
-Argue with teachers more frequently.
-Are more likely to be involved in physical fights.
-Do not perform as well in school.

The author's opinion revolves around the type of "play" that video games provides.

His view:

"Today's video games offer a completely different type of play than my generation engaged in as kids. When I was little and playing cops and robbers, I said, "Bang, bang, I got you, Jimmy." Jimmy said, "No you didn't." So I said, "Well, bang, bang. Now I got you." Again he argued that I didn't. So, I smacked him with my cap gun, and after he went crying to his mother and I got in big trouble. ALong the way I learned one of life's most important lessons, a lesson that usually had to be taught over and over again: Jimmy is real, Sally is real, and Fido is real, and if I hurt them, I'm going to get into big trouble.
For thousands of years kids have whacked each other with wooden swords, or played "bang,bang, I got you." This was healthy play because as soon as someone got hurt the play stopped, and all the kids gathered around and tried to convince him not to tell momma. Today, kids are immersed in a virtual reality environment where they repeatedly blow their virtual, hyperrealistic, playmate's heads off in explosions of blood and gore. Do they get in trouble? No. They get awarded points! This is pathological and dysfunctional play." (Lt. Colonel Dave Grossman; On Combat)

 

[Ravi]

Maybe being a violent child causes one to play violent video games?

 

[BrianH]

Could be...he says alot of children come from depressing backgrounds and emerse themselves in hyperreality where they have alot of power. I would agree that there are reasons for kids getting involved in violent video games.

But there's also enough evidence to show that there are just as many well-rounded kids that come from normal backgrounds that play violent video games...and are just as aggressive.

Alot of if depends on the actual person. But if you believe in classical conditioning, his statments are true.

Many of us over the age of 20 didn't start out with high quality video games. So we know the value of "healthy play" more than kids today. Sure we had Atari and Nintendo, but games didn't start getting really bloody and violent until the 90s.

younger kids today start out at kindergarten with realistic gaming.

 

[BrianH]

Don't get me wrong...I'm not saying that video gaming is all bad. I love playing first-person shooters...but I've had enough healthy play as a child to know that what I'm playing isn't real and you do the things you do in video game out on the streets...cause you'll be arrested or die.

 

[Ravi]

It's an interesting question but I don't think we are capable of answering it at the moment. The guy's reasoning was pure speculation.

Once upon a time kids didn't really play once they got past toddlerhood, they worked. As the middle class grew, more and more kids had leisure time to play. Still do, even though play is different. Has the level of violence changed because of video games or because kids aren't put into the work house to keep them out of mischief? Are kids so pressured to excel in school that they act out in protest with violence? So many factors could contribute.

And is the level of violence different now than it was twenty, thirty, forty years ago?

 

[Shogun]

My answer is no.

I'll let you ask why.

 

[BrianH]

The level of crimes may not have changed, but the level of violent crimes by youth have increased. You have more school shootings than before. You have more young kids killing their parents for easily solvable reasons.

Agreed, many factors could contribute, but we're talking about violent video games specifically.

Shogun,

Feel free to input, but as much as you you'll think you're right...you're not smarter than 20 years experience in human aggression and psychology.

 

[BrianH]

In 2000, the American Medical Association (AMA), American Psychological Association (APA), American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP), and the American Academy of CHild and Adolescent Psychiatry (AACAP) made a joint statement to Congress.

"Well over 1,000 studies point overwhelmingly to a casual connection between media violence and agressive behavior in some children. Preliminary studies indicate that the negative impact of interactive electronic media [violent video games] may be significantly more severe than that wrought by television, movies, or music."

In 2001, the National Institute for Media and the Family realeased their research on 600 8th and 9th graders. They concluded:

"...children who are least aggressive in nature but are exposed to violent video games, are more likely to get into fights than children who are very aggressive but do not play violent video games."

 

[Ravi]

Brian, do you have a link to that joint statement to Congress?

 

[BrianH]

We do what we are trained (conditioned) to do. Whether it's informal or formal training. Studies show that many school shooters wanted to kill just one person...usually a teacher, girlfriend, enemy, but ended up killing more because after that first shot, they shot at whatever popped up next.

Michael Carneal in Kentucky fired into a prayer circle inf ront of his school. His first bullet found itself between his girlfriend's eyes. Then he kept pulling the trigger. His own sister was in the group that he was firing at. After she ran forward a little to get him to stop, she realized that he didn't even notice she was there. She testified that he was going to kill her too, and she fled.

Upon interview, Carneal had been an avid violent video game player. Dyllan and Klebold were also avid violent game players. Many school shootings have been linked to violent video games.

THere is also a direct corrolation between firearm marksmanship and shooter games. 14-year-old Michael Carneal fired 8 shots and made 8 hits on 8 different people. 5 hits were head shots and the other three were upper torso. There is still no recorded comparison to this in military or law enforcement records. This was achieved by a boy who had never fired a pistol in real life, but only one day before put two clips of ammunition through a handgun that he stole.

Military recruits who have had violent video game experience have been proved to shoot better than those who have not, even if they have never fired a gun.

"The mother of a 13-year-old killer in the Jonesboro school shooting sat across our coffee table and told my wife and I, several months after the killings, that she finally told her son who he hadkilled that day. She said her boy laid his head on the table, and sobbed, saying, 'Those were my friends.'"


The military uses video game simulations to train their soldiers. It works on children too.

 

[BrianH]

Ravir,

this is the best I can do on a link. I didn't find this info. on the internet. I have a book here at home I've been reading from an author that was directly involved in this.

Here's one link; you can probably find more if you google it.

http://www.aap.org/advocacy/releases/jstmtevc.htm

 

[jillian]

Ravir,

this is the best I can do on a link. I didn't find this info. on the internet. I have a book here at home I've been reading from an author that was directly involved in this.

Here's one link; you can probably find more if you google it.

http://www.aap.org/advocacy/releases/jstmtevc.htm

Interesting link. And I'm sure there's some truth to it. But the truth that they don't tell you is that the fantasy games in particular use concepts and vocabulary that most children aren't exposed to so you.

I think it's just important for parents to watch what their kids are watching and playing and be attentive to the ratings on the games (E for everyone, T for Teens, etc).

 

[BrianH]

You're exactly right Jillian, there is a large degree of parental responsibility in regards to what their children do. Unfortunately, we have many parents who don't.

Our video game business is very cunning at doing what you've suggested and even hiding the fact. They're good about passing that "parental decision" around. I'll admit, it does have truth to it, but it's not nearly all of the puzzle.

The military purchased numbers of the Duck Hunt nintendo game. They replaced the plastic pistol with a plastic M-16 and turned the ducks into man-shaped silhouettes. It became MACS Multipurpose Arcade Combat Simulator. IT had NINTENDO stamped on it, so the troops knew what it really was.

The author of the book I'm reading writes:

"It is intersting to note here; When I testified before committee hearings held by both the U.S. Senate and the U.S. House of Representatives after the Columbine school massacre. When I said that a modified version of the Duck Hunt game was used by the U.S. Army, the lobbyist representing the Nintendo Corporation stood up and said that Nintendo has never sold anything to the U.S. military. No, they sold these games to a subcontractor, who then sold them to the Army.)"

This may be true, but it goes to show how the video gaming industry does well to cover themselves.

 

[Ravi]

We do what we are trained (conditioned) to do. Whether it's informal or formal training. Studies show that many school shooters wanted to kill just one person...usually a teacher, girlfriend, enemy, but ended up killing more because after that first shot, they shot at whatever popped up next.

Michael Carneal in Kentucky fired into a prayer circle inf ront of his school. His first bullet found itself between his girlfriend's eyes. Then he kept pulling the trigger. His own sister was in the group that he was firing at. After she ran forward a little to get him to stop, she realized that he didn't even notice she was there. She testified that he was going to kill her too, and she fled.

Upon interview, Carneal had been an avid violent video game player. Dyllan and Klebold were also avid violent game players. Many school shootings have been linked to violent video games.

THere is also a direct corrolation between firearm marksmanship and shooter games. 14-year-old Michael Carneal fired 8 shots and made 8 hits on 8 different people. 5 hits were head shots and the other three were upper torso. There is still no recorded comparison to this in military or law enforcement records. This was achieved by a boy who had never fired a pistol in real life, but only one day before put two clips of ammunition through a handgun that he stole.

Military recruits who have had violent video game experience have been proved to shoot better than those who have not, even if they have never fired a gun.

"The mother of a 13-year-old killer in the Jonesboro school shooting sat across our coffee table and told my wife and I, several months after the killings, that she finally told her son who he hadkilled that day. She said her boy laid his head on the table, and sobbed, saying, 'Those were my friends.'"


The military uses video game simulations to train their soldiers. It works on children too.

Many shootings have been linked to violent video games? It's just as likely that people that shoot people are already attracted to violent video games, not the reverse. I actually remember my son reading me an article saying violent video games give aggressive people an outlet and therefore reduce real life violence.

Playing video games made him a good shooter? This is probably so but so what? That's got to be the dumbest argument against shooter games I ever heard. Guns don't kill people, people that shoot well kill people. LOL!

 

[Ravi]

Ravir,

this is the best I can do on a link. I didn't find this info. on the internet. I have a book here at home I've been reading from an author that was directly involved in this.

Here's one link; you can probably find more if you google it.

http://www.aap.org/advocacy/releases/jstmtevc.htm

Thanks. They don't give any evidence. From what I've read, most shrinks don't give a causal link, just a correlation. I'm not believing this one with out some concrete proof.

 

[BrianH]

Well I don't know what kind of "concrete" evidence you're talking about. It doesn't get any clearing than connecting several shooting mass murders to violent video games. The military uses it to enhance combat(killing) skills.

That blank face witness describe on the shooters when they massacre innocents is the same blank face you see on kids staring at the TV shooting "targets" on a video game. (That's just my own speculation, I have no "concrete" evidence for that either)

The DC "Beltway Snipers" told reporters after their capture, that they played sniper simulations on video games to desensitize and mentally prepare themselves for their crimes. (that's straight from the criminals' mouths)

How is a collective-joint report by some of the major psychological associations in the world not concrete evidence?

 

[BrianH]

"The conclusion of the public health community, based on over 30 years of research, is that viewing entertainment violence can lead to increases in aggressive attitudes, values and behavior, particularly in children. "
Here's a quote sraight from the report, you don't get any more concrete than that.

 

[Shogun]

video games are no more the cause of violent behaviour than sports. People pick and choose the scapegoat of the day and forget that todays Jack Thompson is yesterdays Tipper Gore, Pat Pulling and Rona Jaffe. Mortal Kombat in the 90s didn't cause kids to fight. Heavy Metal and D&D didn't cause kids to worship satan, and GTA patches isn't what makes a teenager want to have sex.

Show me 20 years of behavioural research and APA statements that suggest a CAUSAL relationship. A CASUAL relationship is not a CAUSAL relationship between video games and aggression. But, I'll take a look at what you can post.

I find it quite ridiculous to whip out the school shootings as if video games are the common denominator instead of individually screwed up individuals. In fact, given the entire population of kids that play video games that do not shoot up schools it's pretty obvious why you won't find anyone besides the most ardent minority of the APA insist on a causal relationship.

This kind of logic is why Judas Priest got sued when some angry kid killed himself. It had nothing to do with the music but it was easy to blame so...

 

[Shogun]

"The conclusion of the public health community, based on over 30 years of research, is that viewing entertainment violence can lead to increases in aggressive attitudes, values and behavior, particularly in children. "
Here's a quote sraight from the report, you don't get any more concrete than that.

I'd say "concrete" would be trading CAN with WILL.


drinking a beer CAN lead to drink driving. Would you say drinking ab eer WILL lead to drunk driving?

 

[Ravi]

Well I don't know what kind of "concrete" evidence you're talking about. It doesn't get any clearing than connecting several shooting mass murders to violent video games. The military uses it to enhance combat(killing) skills.

That blank face witness describe on the shooters when they massacre innocents is the same blank face you see on kids staring at the TV shooting "targets" on a video game. (That's just my own speculation, I have no "concrete" evidence for that either)

The DC "Beltway Snipers" told reporters after their capture, that they played sniper simulations on video games to desensitize and mentally prepare themselves for their crimes. (that's straight from the criminals' mouths)

How is a collective-joint report by some of the major psychological associations in the world not concrete evidence?

Just because you can show a correlation doesn't mean that is the cause. Did you know that: "A US Secret Service study found that only 12 percent of those involved in school shootings were attracted to violent video games, while 24 percent read violent books and 27 percent were attracted to violent films." Should we ban violent books? And what planet do you inhabit if you think violent people aren't attracted to violent games?

Blank faces? What is that supposed to mean...people that can kill innocent people are freaking crazy.

It isn't concrete evidence because they haven't presented any evidence.

Next you'll be telling me guns should be outlawed.