Do the Marines turn screw-ups around?

[Mr. President]

just take a look at ex military on here....runs from nutcases to semi nutcases ...to in charge nutcases...hell the military aint no magic pill....but if you are really worried...go army...the reason....you can get out of the army if you dont care for it...they are such pussies now....i know now why my father was hated "the new man's army" as he called it....but if you enlist in the army and dont care for it...you can beg your way out....marines you go awol and do time...i will give them that...

but if you really want discipline...navy seals...

You dont know why your father hated the new mans army because you were never in it so shut up.

Army has plenty of discipline its all about what he is good at as per what service he should go in. Being in the Army I'd much rather have a screw up come to the Army where I can shove a mop in his hand force him to do his time stateside and smoke him whenever I see the most miniscule amount of dirt on the floor rather than send him to the marines where he will be in combat and get good men killed. The Army because of our size has room for screw ups and can place them in places where jobs that dont affect lives still can be done. It is a rarity to find that room in the marines.

He's only a screwup right now because he needs discipline. With the proper training, he wouldn't be getting people killed.

I can train you to do anything if you decide to apply your training or not is up to you so you can be a well trained screw up.

 

[elvis]

You dont know why your father hated the new mans army because you were never in it so shut up.

Army has plenty of discipline its all about what he is good at as per what service he should go in. Being in the Army I'd much rather have a screw up come to the Army where I can shove a mop in his hand force him to do his time stateside and smoke him whenever I see the most miniscule amount of dirt on the floor rather than send him to the marines where he will be in combat and get good men killed. The Army because of our size has room for screw ups and can place them in places where jobs that dont affect lives still can be done. It is a rarity to find that room in the marines.

He's only a screwup right now because he needs discipline. With the proper training, he wouldn't be getting people killed.

I can train you to do anything if you decide to apply your training or not is up to you so you can be a well trained screw up.

If you're indicative of what the army offers (and God I hope not), I hope he doesn't choose the Army.

 

[Mr. President]

I am a well trained soldier who knows the realities of what military life is about. Understand that regardless of what branch he chooses you can not change someone who does not want to be changed. Basic is not a cure for stupidity. If it was you would have been forced in it long ago. Please do not try to insult me when you have no grounds to stand upon whether it relate to military life or common sense.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

In the Marine Corps one only reaps what one sows, as it is with life. Or as it's said in the Corps, you only get out what you put in.

I was a fuck-up teenager, drank and did a lotta drugs. I joined the Marine Corps and went off to boot camp 9 days after I turned 18. The first year was the hardest because I hated it (the reality didn't live up to my immature fantasies of what it was to be a Marine), but then I realized that I had no choice but to do my best.

I went from being a soup sandwich, bag'o'doughnuts shit bag private to an oustanding NCO, company guide, got a Navy and Marine Corps Achievement Medal, went on a meritorious sergeant promotion board (lost to an even more bad-ass Marine), and earned the respect of my peers and superiors and earned a lot of credibility with them as well. More importantly, I earned my own respect. I became fit, strong, and better able to deal with reality as it was than as I wanted it to be.

Then I got the Hell out on my EAS date and went to college. Now I'm a liberal, educated and elitist.

 

[Navy1960]

What the hell kitten you mean someone doesn't like the Navy? *laughs* As for your situation elvis if this young man need focus in his life, a recruiter will help him get his diploma or GED prior to entry into the service. My daughters boyfriend was about as useless as a damn doorknob and was in the same situation till I walked him down to the local recruiters office. Turns out, after talking with the Senior Chief at the Naval recruiters office he suggested the Marines or Army for this young man. We then spoke to the Marine recruiter who looked into his situation and now has the boy back on track in school and he reports once a week to the recruiter and once he gets his diploma at the end of the summer he is slated to go to MCRD. Not that as a former Navy I think we need another Marine on the planet but hey damn sure better than the Air Farce!! j/k!! Hope this helps though, the bottom line here is that the local recruiters are more than capable of kicking this kid in his backside and getting him motivated.

 

[Tech_Esq]

My cousin is a great kid, but he has absolutely ZERO discipline. Instead of going to class the second half of his senior year, he screwed around and "texted" thousands of times with his friends each day. he failed his classes and cannot graduate this year. First off, does one need a diploma/GED to get into the Corps, and will the Marines make him responsible or are some "unmakable"?
I think he needs to get away from his parents and become an adult, but he isn't ready. I wonder if the Marines would "help" with that.

The Military can take a few none diploma people but they vastly prefer High School completion.

The military helps some and others remain unchanged.

I think he's a good kid. He just needs to grow up. He needs discipline that his parents are too busy to give him. Do most recruits "grow up" if they haven't already?

I got to see it from both sides. I was a trainee one cycle (Army not Marines. Though I was Infantry so the training is not dissimilar) and a Drill Corporal (kind of a Drill Sergeant's assistant) the next cycle.

My platoon in Basic/AIT, called One Station Unit Training (OSUT), in the Army was made up of trainees with contracts for Airborne, Ranger and Special Forces units. Since the number required to fill out a platoon was not reached, the Drills in their own perverted sense of justice, rounded out our platoon with all of the Army Reserve and Army National Guard trainees.

To say there was a different level of motivation and a different type of person that represented those two factions would be the understatement of a lifetime. The upshot is that all of the ARNGs were discharged. None of them made it through OSUT successfully. Our platoon won Honor Platoon for the cycle.

What does that mean about the individuals? In some cases they were not physically able to "hang" with the rest of us. In a few cases, they were not mentally able to "hang" with us. Not that I'm talking about being smart here, I'm talking about mental toughness. One individual told the Drill that, "His daddy said he didn't have to do that." I swear to God that happened.

There were individuals who wanted to be "individuals." There was one particular that I remember called Batson. He did not want to respond to discipline. He had a very uncomfortable 13 and half weeks. He spent a lot of time "pushing up Georgia" and conversely digging trenches with his helmet through the red clay of Georgia as the Drills gave him advanced "instruction" in low crawling. He was introduced to the motivational exercise called the "mountain climber" and he found that one had to be prepared to execute the mountain climber even in NBC conditions. Eventually, Batson conformed.

Monroe didn't. He passed OSUT and was busted selling drugs in Airborne school. There it is. Six months making LFRs our of BFRs and a Bad Conduct Discharge (BCD). The system ain't perfect, it's just the system.

 

[Tech_Esq]

While it depends on their personal experience, I would say if he has no other options in life and no experience living on his own, it would be a good idea. Marines, Air Force, or (Gunny don't hate me) Navy, but not so much Army unless you are well adjusted already.

Why?

Hmm ... honestly I just know people who were in the army that weren't mentally stable and it didn't help ... so it's just opinion that they don't have as strict requirements. At least it didn't, not that up to date on what they take in and not now.

Again, the Army is practically as large, people-wise, as all the others combined. So, it depends on what corner of the Army people go to. I've seen parts of the Army that are as lax as the Air Force and parts that are as tough as any Marine outfit.

 

[Gunny]

just take a look at ex military on here....runs from nutcases to semi nutcases ...to in charge nutcases...hell the military aint no magic pill....but if you are really worried...go army...the reason....you can get out of the army if you dont care for it...they are such pussies now....i know now why my father was hated "the new man's army" as he called it....but if you enlist in the army and dont care for it...you can beg your way out....marines you go awol and do time...i will give them that...

but if you really want discipline...navy seals...

You don't know what you're talking about.

One, the military is most certainly a magic pill for those who wish to get the Hell out the situation they are in and the place they live and never look back. It's just up to you to remember why you left to begin with.

All branches offer excellent educational opportunities at a cheap price.

Prior to Afghanistan and Iraq, during peacetime, you could get out of ANY branch of the service pretty-much at will. Since 9/11, you cannot get out of the Army that much easier than you can the Marines.

You can't just join the Navy SEALS. You can join the Navy and APPLY for the SEAL program. Odds are good you will fail the screening.

I must be missing what you're seeing where it comes to you calling vets nutcases. Most of the vets I see on this board display a WHOLE LOT more discipline than non-vets.

SO, I'm not seeing the point to anything you posted. Just an overall anti-military attitude. It's like everything else under the sun ... it has it's good and bad points. The military neither brainwashes you nor makes you a nutcase unless you were susceptible to either/or to begin with.

 

[Gunny]

just take a look at ex military on here....runs from nutcases to semi nutcases ...to in charge nutcases...hell the military aint no magic pill....but if you are really worried...go army...the reason....you can get out of the army if you dont care for it...they are such pussies now....i know now why my father was hated "the new man's army" as he called it....but if you enlist in the army and dont care for it...you can beg your way out....marines you go awol and do time...i will give them that...

but if you really want discipline...navy seals...

You dont know why your father hated the new mans army because you were never in it so shut up.

Army has plenty of discipline its all about what he is good at as per what service he should go in. Being in the Army I'd much rather have a screw up come to the Army where I can shove a mop in his hand force him to do his time stateside and smoke him whenever I see the most miniscule amount of dirt on the floor rather than send him to the marines where he will be in combat and get good men killed. The Army because of our size has room for screw ups and can place them in places where jobs that dont affect lives still can be done. It is a rarity to find that room in the marines.

Rather a harsh analysis of the Marine Corps, IMO. No one gets put in combat that hasn't been trained for hours on endless hours to months on endless months until they know EXACTLY what they are supposed to do and can do it in their sleep.

That room exists in the Marines every bit as much as the Army. The percentages are the same and we have the same jobs that have to be done in the rear. A screwup in the Marines will spend a good amount of his time rotating between mess, guard and maintenance duty. The rifle range always needs coaches ships always need a ship's platoon.

Where you got the notion Marines would endanger the lives of other Marines by taking a screwup into combat beats me.

 

[Gunny]

He's only a screwup right now because he needs discipline. With the proper training, he wouldn't be getting people killed.

I can train you to do anything if you decide to apply your training or not is up to you so you can be a well trained screw up.

If you're indicative of what the army offers (and God I hope not), I hope he doesn't choose the Army.

Relax. Somebody pulled a chain and got exactly what they wanted. This guy's usually not this pissy.

 

[Gunny]

I am a well trained soldier who knows the realities of what military life is about. Understand that regardless of what branch he chooses you can not change someone who does not want to be changed. Basic is not a cure for stupidity. If it was you would have been forced in it long ago. Please do not try to insult me when you have no grounds to stand upon whether it relate to military life or common sense.

You lighten up too, Francis. You got your chain pulled and you reacted. The fact is, we ALL think our respective branch is the best just as we know the zoomies are delusional.

Your post here pretty-much mirrors what I said on the first page and it isn't about which branch is better.

And you may very-well know all about Army life, but you also presumed to speak for the Marine Corps; which, you were not in.

The fact is, as you and I both stated, it will only work if he wants it to work. That's one thing that's true across the board for all branches.

 

[Mr. President]

I have worked with many marines and its possible that because of the situations I was in I only saw a limited scope of the marines when I was with them. Thus my perception may have been skewed. However the "not as tough as marines" stigma portrayed by civilians with no military experience really chaps my hide. It is in no way indicitive of the true soldier. In fact the Army has at any given time more soldiers deployed than all other services combined. But in any fashion Im getting paid regardless so life is good!

 

[Tech_Esq]

I have worked with many marines and its possible that because of the situations I was in I only saw a limited scope of the marines when I was with them. Thus my perception may have been skewed. However the "not as tough as marines" stigma portrayed by civilians with no military experience really chaps my hide. It is in no way indicitive of the true soldier. In fact the Army has at any given time more soldiers deployed than all other services combined. But in any fashion Im getting paid regardless so life is good!

When I went to basic, our Brigade CO held an assembly and told us that, "I had always heard that Marines stand 10 feet tall. So, when I took over here, I went to Paris Island to see how Marines trained. And, I'm here to tell you that Marines do stand 10 feet tall. Their training is outstanding! But, I'm also here to tell you that when an Infantryman graduates from the United States Army Infantry Center, you stand 13 feet tall! You will do all the training Marines do and more!"

You get the picture. Some of that was motivating the troops, some was true. Later, our unit was designated the Amphibious Assault division for the Army (owing to the 7th Infantry Division's long history of conducting amphibious landings at Attu, Kiska, the Philippines, Kwajalien, Eniwetok, Okinawa and Inchon), so we were sent to Coronado to undergo amphibious assault training with the Marines. (Those were the Marines that invaded Grenada the following month). So, I think we had a good chance to "eyeball" each other. Neither group came away thinking the other lacked anything. We were not the "hard core" unit we became at that point, but the underpinnings were definitely there.

 

[Lycurgus]

My cousin is a great kid, but he has absolutely ZERO discipline. Instead of going to class the second half of his senior year, he screwed around and "texted" thousands of times with his friends each day. he failed his classes and cannot graduate this year. First off, does one need a diploma/GED to get into the Corps, and will the Marines make him responsible or are some "unmakable"?
I think he needs to get away from his parents and become an adult, but he isn't ready. I wonder if the Marines would "help" with that.

Naturally it does vary from person to person and situation, to situation.............

However, IMO and experience it is a good choice for anyone with such issues. In fact IMO it could do some good for each citizen.

Of course they could always try community organization!

I think your cousin should give it a try. It certainly cannot hurt him.

 

[JW Frogen]

Your cousin should be forced to pick fruit or work in a shit resturant with Mexican migrants for one year.

That will learn him how to learn.

 

[editec]

As relevant a question is:

"Does the Marine Corps turn normal people into screw-ups?"
​

I say this because the definition of screw-up is really the relevant issue of this or the other question.​

If you definte screw-up one way, your conclusion will be one thing. If your definition of screw-up is another, your conclusion will be different.​

And then, too, as others have already noted, different personality types respond to highly structured systems very differently.​