Do Republicans have to "trick" people when fundraising?

[txlonghorn]

I wonder how many recipients just tossed the damn thing without opening it?

 

[SFC Ollie]

I wonder how many recipients just tossed the damn thing without opening it?

I looked at it before I trashed it......

 

[Some Guy]

I submit that the supposed explosion is undetectable with todays instruments.

Delete the words "Census" which implies an official government document in that stupid failed trick and every problem goes away sparky.

Sticking to a stupid failed argument ...especially a feloneous one is not a real good way to build on your credibility...just saying... You can be as dumb as you want ..

Why not put your effort into something where you actually have a chance on winning?

Hey man, i got an idea. My mom teaches 5th grade and she says that using analogies helps the children understand some concepts that are otherwise a little too complicated for their young minds to understand. Since you seem to have some trouble grasping what a census is, i'll try to help you out.

Let's say you were in your class and the teacher wanted to do an exercise that had you make a dessert for the whole class, and you were graded on how well everyone liked it. The teacher gives you some time to try to find out as much as you can about your classmates... what they like, what they don't like, etc. What you might do in order to gauge such measures is to take a census of the class' tastes. Maybe a lot of people in your class like nuts, maybe a lot like exotic desserts, or maybe most of them just like plain 'ol brownies.

So, hopefully this little analogy has helped you understand that the word "census" is not reserved for use by the U.S. Government only. Rather, a "census" is basically a survey used to gather information about a certain population demographic. As illustrated above, me, you, or anyone could conduct a census on just about anything. How cool is that?

Persistance in of itself is not evidense with or without your moms help. You schooling me as ambitious a bite as it is will only result in a trip to the dentist. Save your teeth. They will become important in the future...trust me on that one...

Nice to see you learned something here today. No need to thank me. Have a great day citizen.

 

[FA_Q2]

All right some guy, that was $%&^!%# hilarious. Just sayin...

 

[Vanquish]

Yes. It's a serious post.

Oh. Well then...

The people defending this thing as only skirting the line (it says Republican 9 times) are being too lenient. Old people and slow people could really be confused by this despite the 9 times it says Republican.

So your defense is basically to say that "stupid people are too stupid to realize what it is." I also bet stupid people cut themselves with knives every once in a while too. Where's your outrage for companies that sell knives?

It's enough to interfere with the entire process and muck it up.

Or, it doesn't muck up the process at all. "The Census" is completely different from the RNC's census, so sending one in doesn't do anything to affect the other.

Where's the outrage? Where's the whole "defend our country" crap now? Here's a totally selfish interference with governmental operations that you're defending...when you should be trying to protect our country.

Because there's nothing to be outraged about. I don't feel the need to advocate laws to protect people from themselves, but i guess that's where we differ.

Your arguments dont hold water because misleading people is still wrong. Yes stupid people do stupid things, but that's not what's at play here. What's at play is a group of people purposefully skirting the edge of what's legal...and failing. It doesn't take a genius to know what they were trying to do. We've all seen mailers that try to trick you into opening them because they look like something else. Credit card companies do it. The sweepstakes does it. Come on, are you telling me this is a new invention to you? Get off it.

First of all, you can look at the damn thing and see that they made the graphic design to look like a stereotypical government form - devoid of color and bland in appearance.

Second of all they used the word census. Yes, you've discussed the use of that word elsewhere, but you can't unring a bell. You can put disclaimers on there, but in the real world, what people absorb from a document is pretty random.

Third, if it's not misleading, why the hell would anyone think this issue rises to the level of needing legislation? That's a huge step. I know you're going to say it's gamesmanship/partisan but ffs, if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, quacks like a duck...

Certain elements of the conservative movement have been against filling out the census for a whole host of reasons. This gums up the works...sticks a cog in the spokes of a legitimate government process.

It sucks that some conservatives want to force their opinion on people...but FFS don't mislead people by interfering with a legitimate government process. And especially don't think of yourselves as freedom fighters when you do it.

 

[blastoff]

Yeah, those Republicans were sure trying to trick folks alright.

SPECIAL NOTICE You have been selected to represent Republican Voters in ____ ____ Congressional District.

2010 Congressional District Census...Commissioned by the Republican Party...

Strengthening our Party for the 2010 Elections...As a key facet of our overall campaign strategy, the Republican Party is conducting a Census...

When finished answering...please return it along with your generous contribution...

Gee, maybe a few dumbshit Dimocrats got fooled thinking it was the official U.S. Census? LOL...even Forrest Gump would have known otherwise.

 

[HUGGY]

Yeah, those Republicans were sure trying to trick folks alright.

SPECIAL NOTICE You have been selected to represent Republican Voters in ____ ____ Congressional District.

2010 Congressional District Census...Commissioned by the Republican Party...

Strengthening our Party for the 2010 Elections...As a key facet of our overall campaign strategy, the Republican Party is conducting a Census...

When finished answering...please return it along with your generous contribution...

Gee, maybe a few dumbshit Dimocrats got fooled thinking it was the official U.S. Census? LOL...even Forrest Gump would have known otherwise.

I see nothing wrong with a flyer laid out like this. So you agree that using the word Census is inappropriate.

 

[DiamondDave]

I guess the Romans were wrong for referring to the US Census when they conducted actions and called it a census


Huggy... you are a persistent idiot, I will give you that

 

[Some Guy]

Your arguments dont hold water because misleading people is still wrong.

Are you serious? Companies mislead people all the f'ing time... they're even allowed to embellish the truth in their advertisements. You know, Ax body spray doesn't actually make chicks flock to you.

Yes stupid people do stupid things, but that's not what's at play here. What's at play is a group of people purposefully skirting the edge of what's legal...and failing. It doesn't take a genius to know what they were trying to do. We've all seen mailers that try to trick you into opening them because they look like something else. Credit card companies do it. The sweepstakes does it. Come on, are you telling me this is a new invention to you? Get off it.

First of all, you can look at the damn thing and see that they made the graphic design to look like a stereotypical government form - devoid of color and bland in appearance.

Second of all they used the word census. Yes, you've discussed the use of that word elsewhere, but you can't unring a bell. You can put disclaimers on there, but in the real world, what people absorb from a document is pretty random.

Sounds like we're arguing for the same thing here. It's absolutely made to look like something important so people won't just toss in the garbage without looking at it. You've admitted that other companies do this with regard to credit cards and the like, so what's the problem with the RNC doing it?

Third, if it's not misleading, why the hell would anyone think this issue rises to the level of needing legislation? That's a huge step. I know you're going to say it's gamesmanship/partisan but ffs, if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, quacks like a duck...

Because people are stupid, and representatives are going to try rush to their constituents' side to protect them.

Certain elements of the conservative movement have been against filling out the census for a whole host of reasons. This gums up the works...sticks a cog in the spokes of a legitimate government process.

It sucks that some conservatives want to force their opinion on people...but FFS don't mislead people by interfering with a legitimate government process. And especially don't think of yourselves as freedom fighters when you do it.

It's quite funny how you mock this as a failed attempt to trick people, then in the same breath, talk about how it "gums up the system." How does that make any sense? That's like saying a security system that foiled a terrorist plot needs to be changed because it foiled the terrorist plot.

In no place did the RNC try to represent themselves as a government agency conducting the 10 year census, and in no place did they say any of this was required by law. Seems to me you just have a problem with the RNC trying to gain useful information for an upcoming election.

 

[Vanquish]

The difference between what the other people have done and what the RNC did is that the other people don't try to make it look like an important governmental document. And even worse a SPECIFIC document sent out at the same SPECIFIC time. Other companies may try to make it look like something from a law firm or something else official...but the circumstances around the specifics here are engineered to fool people that it's the census.

Where did I say it failed? I didn't. Not sure where you're saying that. If it was innocuous and wasnt causing a problem, I wouldnt be complaining.

I don't mind the RNC trying to get information ...just dont fool gullible people into thinking you have some power of authority to do it. That's what irks me the most. Someone who falls for this would think that they're required to send it back because they've been fooled into thinking its from the government. That's where you miss the idea that despite some disclaimers, the effect for the person fooled is still the same.

BTW, you may be so jaded as to think that the legislation was gamesmanship (as I predicted), but I'm going to choose to think that presented legislation isn't done on such a whim like that.

 

[The Rabbi]

The difference between what the other people have done and what the RNC did is that the other people don't try to make it look like an important governmental document. And even worse a SPECIFIC document sent out at the same SPECIFIC time.

Wrong.
I get stuff all the time that looks like a refund from the IRS.

This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats: Republicans assume people are smart enough to read and realize when the word "Republican" is written nine times on a document that it is not the official U.S. census, which appears nowhere.
Democrats want to squelch free speech under the pretense of protecting people.

 

[Vanquish]

Pretense implies that I know I want to squelch what should be protected speech but want to do a bad thing using a trumped up excuse.

In my case, that's not true. Feel free to paint others how you want, but as for

Look, I'm not one of those who thinks that the entire world should be bubble wrapped. I get it. Life isn't fair. But you and your side goes to the opposite extreme - Dont protect anyone. If you get screwed it's your own fault. B

Old people get cheated and taken advantage of all the time. There's a litany of consumer protection laws that prove that fact. All I'm saying is that no one...not just the RNC...but DNC...the damn Green Party shouldnt mislead people into thinking something that isn't true. So stop being a partisan hack and making such sweeping generalizations so much.

You seem to think there's enough warnings on there. I'm saying that those warnings arent enough based on the timing, the graphics, the other wording. To each his or her own. We can disagree of course.

 

[The Rabbi]

You dont think printing the word "Republican" nine times on a two page document would clue someone in that it came from the Republican committee?
The rest of your post is equally idiotic and reductio ad absurdum. No one is talking about not protecting anyone. But pretending to protect people when the real reason is to squelch free political speech is unconscionable.

 

[Vanquish]

see...no one was insulting you or being insulting. why do you have to start in with the "idiotic"?

I've already addressed your 9 times argument, but you seem to want to ignore what I say. There's no having a reasonable back and forth I suppose.

 

[Some Guy]

Pretense implies that I know I want to squelch what should be protected speech but want to do a bad thing using a trumped up excuse.

In my case, that's not true. Feel free to paint others how you want, but as for

Look, I'm not one of those who thinks that the entire world should be bubble wrapped. I get it. Life isn't fair. But you and your side goes to the opposite extreme - Dont protect anyone. If you get screwed it's your own fault. B

Old people get cheated and taken advantage of all the time. There's a litany of consumer protection laws that prove that fact. All I'm saying is that no one...not just the RNC...but DNC...the damn Green Party shouldnt mislead people into thinking something that isn't true. So stop being a partisan hack and making such sweeping generalizations so much.

You seem to think there's enough warnings on there. I'm saying that those warnings arent enough based on the timing, the graphics, the other wording. To each his or her own. We can disagree of course.

Please explain how anyone would get screwed on this? Someone fills it out and send it back, so the evil RNC gets some harmless demographic information? And please don't say that people will innocently lose their money. In order to send money, you would've had to read through the whole thing and the document even provides different options for dollar amounts to submit. It'd be different is it only said "provide $X for processing." Even then, they'd need to know who to make a check out to. I would think writing "Republican National Committee" on there might be a giveaway that *gasp* the RNC isn't the government.

If someone finds this misleading, then i'd question their ability to survive without being told when and how to breathe. But hey, that's what some people want from their government, i guess.

 

[The Rabbi]

see...no one was insulting you or being insulting. why do you have to start in with the "idiotic"?

I've already addressed your 9 times argument, but you seem to want to ignore what I say. There's no having a reasonable back and forth I suppose.

You "counter-argument" is to say that some people are too stupid to read a word nine times and draw an appropriate conclusion. There is no proof to that. No evidence offered whatsoever. I suppose anyone that stupid couldn't read the rest of the letter either.

Your post is stupid because it fails to address the issue of the thread, instead positing absurd reductio ad absurdum positions like "Republicans want to legalize cheating little old ladies." That is idiotic.
So was the rest of your post, some of which was merely incoherent.

 

[Vanquish]

No.

What I said was that the sum is greater than its parts. That there's more to the missive than just the 9 parts you're hanging your hat on.

Keep insulting me. It makes taking you seriously less plausible every time. Some people can have arguments without resorting to insults. Shame that internet anonymity reduces some people's ability to edit themselves though.

 

[The Rabbi]

No.

What I said was that the sum is greater than its parts. That there's more to the missive than just the 9 parts you're hanging your hat on.

Keep insulting me. It makes taking you seriously less plausible every time. Some people can have arguments without resorting to insults. Shame that internet anonymity reduces some people's ability to edit themselves though.

You're right. There is more on the document. The return address says "Return to Republican Party." The letter speaks about "strengthening our party" as its purpose. I recall the U.S. Census had language about that too. Whoops, no it didnt after all.
Yes, you have failed to make your case here. You either have to posit that everyone is too stupid to read or you have to admit the truth that this is an attempt to stifle free speech. Which is it?

 

[Vanquish]

No.

What I said was that the sum is greater than its parts. That there's more to the missive than just the 9 parts you're hanging your hat on.

Keep insulting me. It makes taking you seriously less plausible every time. Some people can have arguments without resorting to insults. Shame that internet anonymity reduces some people's ability to edit themselves though.

You're right. There is more on the document. The return address says "Return to Republican Party." The letter speaks about "strengthening our party" as its purpose. I recall the U.S. Census had language about that too. Whoops, no it didnt after all.
Yes, you have failed to make your case here. You either have to posit that everyone is too stupid to read or you have to admit the truth that this is an attempt to stifle free speech. Which is it?

That's a false dichotomy.

What "this" are you talking about? The legislation? My opinion? The reaction?

Dude, it's not an attempt to stifle free speech. And it's not that EVERYONE is too stupid to read. If you can't at least admit the minor bit of truth that old people get taken advantage of via mail then you're not worth discussing the topic with.

 

[The Rabbi]

"this" is legislation that would squelch mailers like this. I would have thought that obvious.
So you want to outlaw political mailings like this one because old people get targeted in scams? Are you on something?