Do Natural Rights Exist Without Government ?

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by Listening, Mar 30, 2014.

  1. dilloduck
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    dilloduck Diamond Member

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    Actually quite a few people were killed in rioting that led up to Great Britain giving India it's Independence. and then there was that pesky WWII also.
     
  2. Asclepias
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    Asclepias Work Hard Play Hard

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    I thought Gandhi took a barrage of bullets and still defeated the British singlehandedly.
     
  3. Quantum Windbag
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    Quantum Windbag Gold Member

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    That doesn't change the fact that Gandhi never fired a shot, does it?
     
  4. Quantum Windbag
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    Quantum Windbag Gold Member

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    You are the one that said "(Y)ou cant stop the government from taking away liberty unless you have bigger guns than they do." I provided an example that proves that you are wrong, and, as usual, you prefer to try and pretend that I am misrepresenting the facts.
     
  5. KokomoJojo
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    KokomoJojo VIP Member

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    independence from what?

    what britain had no right to in the first place? Of course with strings attached like every other country britain has ever terrorized and taken over including the US which is really not much more than an extended british colony
     
  6. KokomoJojo
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    KokomoJojo VIP Member

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    see how far you get with that in america sometime. I'll bring the flowers. ~MLK
     
  7. KokomoJojo
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    KokomoJojo VIP Member

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    of course you have natural rights, but like any other brit/french/ aristocratically 'founded' government the real question is how the hel can you defend them in a system that refuses to recognize anything but political rights that suit their agenda?
     
  8. KokomoJojo
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    KokomoJojo VIP Member

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    technically a right is a valid 'claim'.

    The OP is not properly framed.

    Its not whether you have a right its whether you can enforce it. You have many rights that you cannot enforce.

    You need the government who has a monopoly on the courts as the enforcement arm and if they give you the big FUCK YOU then forget it, who will you turn to? Russia?

    In the beginning we had "Ultimate" ownership in land and real rights,

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    which over a very short time omnipotent sovereign allodial ownership was commingled with the fee and converted to mere "interests" in an estate,

    (Guess who owns the "soil" in the US"? Not you!

    and estate in FEE-Simple

    [​IMG]


    of course meaning that the government also has an interest.

    You got the right to live on any land in the US as long as you pay the rents and for the services to the overlord.

    [​IMG]

    Interesting how your rights got usurped when you were not looking. Pun definitely intended.

    However its not that they dont exist, but that the way the cookie crumbles when you let the black robed priests dictate our law in lieu of fully empowered juries of our peers with the power to judge both the facts and the "law" that no government agency has the right to overturn.

    [​IMG]

    Sounds like God to me.


    Oh and freedom of speech? Look at your state constitution. You ahve the freedom to pray and thats where it ends. You do not have the freedom to EXERCISE YOUR religion only the governments religion. If they ever give you the freedom to exercize your religion they will demand its behind closed doors. While in public its the states religion you will exercise.

    Now as you can see they distinguish between political and natural, however there are several court cases where the state claims they have no obligation to protect anyone. You pay taxes on your property for rents and services no different than any vassal in england before the revolution, the only thing that changed is the 'STYLE' of tenure, the tenure is as feudal today as it ever was! LOL

    as everyone should be able to see you own your land and tenements but NOT the soil, the state owns the soil and is your ultimate land lord, hence when you fail to pay taxes you 'forfeit' not your property but yout right of property! tada! They got you by the balls! Your natural rights are so usurped you aint never getting them back!
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2014
  9. dr.d
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    dr.d Active Member

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    U certainly have the right to exercise ur religion..and the right to speak..and the right to bear arms..etc,
    Until those "rights" of urs prevent others from excercising THEIR rights to different religions or none at all..and their ability to speak and be heard...or their right to NOT bear arms or be safe from those who feel their unfettered use of semi-automatic guns with unlimited ordinance precludes the safety and rights of others who differ...
    Freedom is not single minded in a truly free nation...it must be available to all citizens..not just those that agree with a particular ideology...


    Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2014
  10. KokomoJojo
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    KokomoJojo VIP Member

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    what about non citizens who have no obligation to listen to anyones bullshit or cater to their fears?

    unfettered use? ordinance? who cares? you think you have the right to tell people what they can buy when they have committed no crime?

    anyone can join the citizen contract. so what?

    No you dont have the right to exercise your religion thats nonsense. How many more court cases do you need to prove it to yourself? You have the right to pray to your god and that is where it ends! period.

    the government is the new religion and the second you forget it you will pay

    If you have not figgered it out yet they [the states] took all your rights away. you have about the same rights as "free range bond slaves".
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2014

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