Do Natural Rights Exist Without Government ?

U certainly have the right to exercise ur religion..and the right to speak..and the right to bear arms..etc,
Until u feel that those "rights" of urs prevent others from excercising THEIR rights to different religions or none at all..and their ability to speak and be heard...or their right to NOT bear arms or be safe from those who feel their unfettered use of semi-automatic guns with unlimited ordinance precludes the safety and rights of others who differ...
Freedom is not single minded in a truly free nation...it must be available to all citizens..not just those that agree with a particular ideology...


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what about non citizens who have no obligation to listen to anyones bullshit or cater to their fears?

unfettered use? ordinance? who cares? you think you have the right to tell people what they can buy when they have committed no crime?

anyone can join the citizen contract. so what?

No you dont have the right to exercise your religion thats nonsense. How many more court cases do you need to prove it to yourself? You have the right to pray to your god and that is where it ends! period.

the government is the new religion and the second you forget it you will pay

If you have not figgered it out yet they [the states] took all your rights away. you have about the same rights as "free range bond slaves".

Hmm...methinks u missed my point..."Rights" that infringe on or neutralize the rights of others in a free society are not rights at all...but a form of tyranny.


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Last edited:
U certainly have the right to exercise ur religion..and the right to speak..and the right to bear arms..etc,
Until u feel that those "rights" of urs prevent others from excercising THEIR rights to different religions or none at all..and their ability to speak and be heard...or their right to NOT bear arms or be safe from those who feel their unfettered use of semi-automatic guns with unlimited ordinance precludes the safety and rights of others who differ...
Freedom is not single minded in a truly free nation...it must be available to all citizens..not just those that agree with a particular ideology...


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

what about non citizens who have no obligation to listen to anyones bullshit or cater to their fears?

unfettered use? ordinance? who cares? you think you have the right to tell people what they can buy when they have committed no crime?

anyone can join the citizen contract. so what?

No you dont have the right to exercise your religion thats nonsense. How many more court cases do you need to prove it to yourself? You have the right to pray to your god and that is where it ends! period.

the government is the new religion and the second you forget it you will pay

If you have not figgered it out yet they [the states] took all your rights away. you have about the same rights as "free range bond slaves".

Hmm...methinks u missed my point..."Rights" that infringe on or neutralize the rights of others in a free society are not rights at all...but a form of tyranny.


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now theres a nice oxymoron LOL


you have about the same rights as "free range bond slaves".

Is not creating debt that you and your children have to pay forcing you and your kids into bond slavery tryanny?

the complaint was taxation without representation, so we make constitutions, give someone the label representative who does not give a damn what we want the full authority to tax. How is that different than pre-revolution
 
what about non citizens who have no obligation to listen to anyones bullshit or cater to their fears?

unfettered use? ordinance? who cares? you think you have the right to tell people what they can buy when they have committed no crime?

anyone can join the citizen contract. so what?

No you dont have the right to exercise your religion thats nonsense. How many more court cases do you need to prove it to yourself? You have the right to pray to your god and that is where it ends! period.

the government is the new religion and the second you forget it you will pay

If you have not figgered it out yet they [the states] took all your rights away. you have about the same rights as "free range bond slaves".

Hmm...methinks u missed my point..."Rights" that infringe on or neutralize the rights of others in a free society are not rights at all...but a form of tyranny.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


now theres a nice oxymoron LOL


you have about the same rights as "free range bond slaves".

Is not creating debt that you and your children have to pay forcing you and your kids into bond slavery tryanny?

the complaint was taxation without representation, so we make constitutions, give someone the label representative who does not give a damn what we want the full authority to tax. How is that different than pre-revolution

Crickets :)
 
what about non citizens who have no obligation to listen to anyones bullshit or cater to their fears?

unfettered use? ordinance? who cares? you think you have the right to tell people what they can buy when they have committed no crime?

anyone can join the citizen contract. so what?

No you dont have the right to exercise your religion thats nonsense. How many more court cases do you need to prove it to yourself? You have the right to pray to your god and that is where it ends! period.

the government is the new religion and the second you forget it you will pay

If you have not figgered it out yet they [the states] took all your rights away. you have about the same rights as "free range bond slaves".

Hmm...methinks u missed my point..."Rights" that infringe on or neutralize the rights of others in a free society are not rights at all...but a form of tyranny.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


now theres a nice oxymoron LOL


you have about the same rights as "free range bond slaves".

Is not creating debt that you and your children have to pay forcing you and your kids into bond slavery tryanny?

the complaint was taxation without representation, so we make constitutions, give someone the label representative who does not give a damn what we want the full authority to tax. How is that different than pre-revolution

Slavery and tyranny were words used after the passage of the 16th amendment a century ago. Things went pretty good for America since then in spite of all the dire predictions. I'm still free to travel, say pretty much what I want so I guess fiat currency and the federal reserve isn't all that bad. Bond slaves probably means indentured servants. Now, the growing inequality of wealth is creating a slavery of sorts. What good is freedom if people don't have a enough to eat or to put gas in their gas tanks to enjoy a little travel. Sad, and I see Americans working harder than ever. More than they did in the early 60's when I joined the work force.
 
and jumping to the OP, natural rights exist with without and despite government.

The problem is and always has been enforcing them.

Someone by whatever name you want to assign has to hold the axe.
 
Hmm...methinks u missed my point..."Rights" that infringe on or neutralize the rights of others in a free society are not rights at all...but a form of tyranny.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


now theres a nice oxymoron LOL


you have about the same rights as "free range bond slaves".

Is not creating debt that you and your children have to pay forcing you and your kids into bond slavery tryanny?

the complaint was taxation without representation, so we make constitutions, give someone the label representative who does not give a damn what we want the full authority to tax. How is that different than pre-revolution

Slavery and tyranny were words used after the passage of the 16th amendment a century ago. Things went pretty good for America since then in spite of all the dire predictions. I'm still free to travel, say pretty much what I want so I guess fiat currency and the federal reserve isn't all that bad. Bond slaves probably means indentured servants. Now, the growing inequality of wealth is creating a slavery of sorts. What good is freedom if people don't have a enough to eat or to put gas in their gas tanks to enjoy a little travel. Sad, and I see Americans working harder than ever. More than they did in the early 60's when I joined the work force.

slavery was used since 1500BC and tyranny since the magna charta 1200AD.

no you are not free to travel, you must buy a license which can be revoked.

no a bond slave is not an indentured slave. The most heinous version of bond slave a you paying for a debt your parents made. FEDERAL DEBT

You fiat currency loses value the second you get it in your hands and you are taxed if you put it on the market to break even, gold on the other hand gains in value.

Really? I can think of many things you do not dare say, and unfortunately neither can I to prove it to you LOL

Nor can you exercise your religion, only the government is allowed to exercise their religion.
 
Now, if China chooses to be communist....and forbids your rights, what difference does it make if they can't "repudiate" them (refuse to accept that they exist) ? You still don't get to exercise them....and, in effect, they have been removed.

While recently reading Ezra Taft Benson's talk on the proper role of goverment, he states that the most important function of government is to secure the rights and freedoms of individuals.

Can someone explain to me how we don't have secure rights without government ?

To answer the title question: yes.

The role of government is to secure the rights and freedoms of those governed, not to provide the rights those governed may enjoy, not to dictate what rights one may or may not enjoy. The matter then is that "to secure" those rights is to make it possible for individuals to exercise as unencumbered as possible those rights with which they were born, among them "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

Make no mistake, however, the rights themselves exist regardless of whether a government makes it possible, impossible, easy, hard, etc. to exercise them. If one is fortunate, among other things, one lives in a nation having a government that facilitates one's more-rather-than-less discretionary exercise of all one's "God given" rights, or one that at least doesn't prohibit one's exercise of them.
 

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