Do make the difference between Islam and the Muslims

[Muslim75]

Do make the difference between Islam and the Muslims. That will be something good you will do for yourselves, not for Islam.

Islam, as found in the traditional knowledge of Islam and the knowledge of the saints of Islam comprises a set of clear rules. For instance:

-Don't cheat people
-Don't cheat
-Don't talk bad of others, even if they are as you say
-Don't talk bad of others behind their backs, even if they are as you say
-Be easy going
-Have pity on humans
-Care to protect your health
-Don't hate anyone
-Don't have the least amount of hate in your heart
-Love all people
-Do good to all, those who are good to you and those who harm you
-Forgive without second thoughts
-Don't suspect
-Don't let anger rise within you
-Don't retaliate
-Remember God Almighty while no one sees you

Do you know of any Muslim among the 1.6 billion Muslims (or so) who does this ? Most likely not. So give Islam the respect it deserves. It is a praiseworthy and noble religion of lights. If you want to point out the evil, make sure you say "Muslims" and not "Islam".

 

[Dajjal]

Where do you get all these rules? Not from the Quran I think. You cannot make stuff up that contradicts the Quran and call it Islam.

 

[Muslim75]

Where do you get all these rules? Not from the Quran I think. You cannot make stuff up that contradicts the Quran and call it Islam.

Do Christians find all the rules of their religion in the Bible ? Besides what is found word per word in the Bible, doesn't Christianity have other rules ?

Therein is your answer. Do you not know how the Qur'an came to be revealed ? Events would happen in life, and as they happen God would reveal to Muhammad something about those events. For example, Abu Bakr one day asked Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family) about the words "blessings of God" then God revealed to Muhammad:

"He it is Who sends blessings on you, as do His angels..." you here means to include Abu Bakr. (The Clans -Surah 33- V 43). Another event happens years later, and God sends a revelation about that event. This is how the Qur'an was revealed, over a 23 year time-span. Such a book is not supposed to be a book of rules.

The Qur'an (and the Hadiths, the sayings of Muhammad) are only sources. Then you go to an Islamic library in a Muslim country and find it filled with a huge number of books. You find for instance in the Qur'an: "Obey Allah" or "Obey Allah and His Prophet and those on authority". This is a source. You will find in the Islamic library, in the books, written black on white that "being a good practicing Muslim will be the cause for God Almighty to grant you great success in life."

Another example, you find in the Qur'an:"follow the way of him who comes to me with love" (Luqman -Surah 31- V 15). Then you find in the books in the Islamic library, written white on black, that "if you die with some hate in your heart, that hate will turn into snakes and scorpions torturing you the minute you die".

An example of those books of traditional Islamic knowledge (not even talking about the knowledge of the saints of Islam), Imam Bayhaqi's "The 77 branches of faith" mentions as the 43rd branch of faith to "the abandoning of rancour(resentment), envy(jealousy) and similar feelings".

Al Lakhdari mentions in His Mukhtassar (in the abridged version) that "it is forbidden for one to lie, to backbite, to talk negatively of others, to be arrogant, to glorify oneself, to show himself off superficially and in order to acquire reputation, to be jealous, to hate, to consider himself better than others, to look for the faults of others, to talk ill, laugh at or ridicule someone". That book by the way, is a book of Islamic Law.

Imam Nawawi explains that when Muhammad said "love for your brother what you love for yourself", brother means one's fellow human being. Imam Nawawi, Imam Bayhaqi and Imam Lakhdari are great scholars who wrote books about the traditional knowledge in Islam, which the Muslim is ordered to acquire in priority. The order to seek knowledge is the first requirement for Muslims.

 

[Dajjal]

So lets get this straight. On the one hand you claim the Quran is the unchanging words of God, and on the other you say that it is not a book of rules. Instead you claim that some people calling themselves saints that have written other more recent books, and you obey them instead?

 

[September]

Where do you get all these rules? Not from the Quran I think. You cannot make stuff up that contradicts the Quran and call it Islam.

Actually, yeah, you can. Its called "evolution".

​

 

[indiajo]

So lets get this straight. On the one hand you claim the Quran is the unchanging words of God, and on the other you say that it is not a book of rules. Instead you claim that some people calling themselves saints that have written other more recent books, and you obey them instead?

They call that Taquiya.

 

[Muslim75]

Muslims generally don't lie to "spread the faith" as you people say. They'd rather talk to non-Muslims in the most perfect sincerity and self-interest, because they truly believe in the greatness of Allah Almighty (God Almighty) and His beloved Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family), upon whom He bestowed the sublime and magnificent Qur'an, which goes along with the splendid and marvelous Hadiths (the sayings of Muhammad, peace be upon him and his family) and, as some know, the teachings and the guidance of the saints of Islam.

I learned the word Taqiyya and what it meant from people on this message board, who are non Muslims. I am stunned by some Americans' ability and readiness to lie about matters of religion. That's precisely what they do when they tell me some things that make no sense.

 

[Daniyel]

So Mohammad wasn't a Muslim? You are not an Islam follower and neither a Muslim since the Quran made it very clear that such reinterpretations considered hypocrisy and you will be punished in fiery torment for eternity.

 

[Muslim75]

I think what has been said already in this thread suffices to show that Islam is Islam and that the Muslims are the Muslims. Islam and Muslims are two completely different entities. Islam is heavenly, pure and absolutely perfect.

Do make the difference between Islam and the Muslims.

 

[Daniyel]

I think what has been said already in this thread suffices to show that Islam is Islam and that the Muslims are the Muslims. Islam and Muslims are two completely different entities. Islam is heavenly, pure and absolutely perfect.

Do make the difference between Islam and the Muslims.

Feel free to quote me, Islam and Muslims (in general ) can't be pure as both reflect each other while lack of purity in the core, Islam is not pure for the reason it is heavily relays on the words of men (the first Muslims ) and Muslims for relaying on Islam and you already pointed out yourself the need of Muslims to walk the ways of Islam to be purified, and that is by following the word of Muslims themselves and you got what you see - Muslims chasing their own tail while daring to judge humans on behalf of God.
Let me know if you need any references.

 

[Zander]

Islam is the carrot

Muslims are the donkey(s)

 

[Muslim75]

Islam is a religion of love and purity. Holding another opinion about Islam is wickedness.


"Follow the way of him who turns to me in love"

The Holy Qur'an, Luqman (Surah 31), V 15


"Say (O Muhammad): If ye love Allah, Follow me: Allah will love you and forgive you your sins: For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."

The Holy Qur'an, The Family of Imran (Surah 3), V 31


Love of the Beloved is the day and the night
And we, like a thirsty fish in this stream, day and night...

Rumi (of Iran, 12th century)


''Satan is your enemy, the enemy of your father Adam (peace on him), how are you at peace along with with him and accept his words ? In addition, between you and him there is blood and great enmity. Don't be at peace along with him; he is the murderer of your father and your mother, and if he could, he would kill you just as he killed them."

Abd Al Qadir Jilani (of Iraq, 12th century)

"And he (Muhammad) said, Peace and blessings of God be upon him, whoso omits to pray on me missed the path to Paradise. By "omits", he meant to say "leaves aside"; so if the one who leaves aside the Prayer on Muhammad missed the path to Paradise, then the one who prays on him is on the path to Paradise."

Muhammad Al Jazuli (of Morocco, 15th century)

Christians asked for a debate. The king Harun Ar Rashid delegated Imam Shafi to debate them. Imam Shafi threw his prayer rug on the river and sat on it saying: "whoso likes to debate us, let him come here and we'll debate". The Christians who saw this converted.

Imam Shafi is Iraqi and lived in the 8th century.

"A merchant who, because of stinginess, tightens the string of his purse and refuses to give a denier (a coin) to the one who financed him at his beginnings can be considered an example of moral ugliness. But how much greater is the ugliness of the man who refuses his worship to God, from whom he received the very principle of life, source and result of (divine) love. To God belongs everything in the heavens and on earth; how can we refuse to give a small part to Him who created and gave the whole ? No, truly, but that is what they do, those who are lost in the maze of this worldly life."

Tierno Bokar (of West Africa's Mali, 20th century)


This is what Islam teaches. These saints of Islam, they are Muslims. that live by the teachings of Islam, and also those that apply their teachings. Therefore, do make the difference between Islam and the Muslims who kill people, oppress women and lie.

 

[Osomir]

Do make the difference between Islam and the Muslims. That will be something good you will do for yourselves, not for Islam.

Islam, as found in the traditional knowledge of Islam and the knowledge of the saints of Islam comprises a set of clear rules. For instance:

-Don't cheat people
-Don't cheat
-Don't talk bad of others, even if they are as you say
-Don't talk bad of others behind their backs, even if they are as you say
-Be easy going
-Have pity on humans
-Care to protect your health
-Don't hate anyone
-Don't have the least amount of hate in your heart
-Love all people
-Do good to all, those who are good to you and those who harm you
-Forgive without second thoughts
-Don't suspect
-Don't let anger rise within you
-Don't retaliate
-Remember God Almighty while no one sees you

Do you know of any Muslim among the 1.6 billion Muslims (or so) who does this ? Most likely not. So give Islam the respect it deserves. It is a praiseworthy and noble religion of lights. If you want to point out the evil, make sure you say "Muslims" and not "Islam".

The Quran gives direct permission for Muslims to retaliate. So that seems like a rather odd assertion to make. It may say that forgiveness is better, but retaliation is certainly allowed.

 

[Muslim75]

You are lying. The Qur'an is a communication from God to Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family), who was at war. It is not for the common Muslim.

 

[Dajjal]

You are lying. The Qur'an is a communication from God to Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family), who was at war. It is not for the common Muslim.

Quran sura 2.185 Ramadhan is the (month) in which was sent down the Quran, as a guide to mankind, also clear (Signs) for guidance and judgment (Between right and wrong)

 

[Osomir]

You are lying. The Qur'an is a communication from God to Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family), who was at war. It is not for the common Muslim.

I agree that this is applicable to many verses that individuals try to insist are general Islamic teachings, but that really isn't the case with the Sura verse suggesting the general rules of war (which are applicable outside of the context of a specific engagement like the Battle of Badr or Tabuk).

 

[Daniyel]

You are lying. The Qur'an is a communication from God to Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family), who was at war. It is not for the common Muslim.

Are you trying to say that you are not a Muslim but a follower of Islam?

 

[Muslim75]

Quran sura 2.185 Ramadhan is the (month) in which was sent down the Quran, as a guide to mankind, also clear (Signs) for guidance and judgment (Between right and wrong)

"Mankind" and "The Balance" are 2 of the names of Muhammad, peace be upon him and his family.

"And We have bestowed upon thee the Seven Oft-repeated (verses) and the Grand Qur'an"

The Holy Qur'an, The Rocky Tract (Surah 15), V 87


"It is He Who has sent down to thee the Book "

The Holy Qur'an, The Family of Imran (Surah 3), V 3

God says the Qur'an was sent down in Ramadan. The first time Gabriel brought verses of the Qur'an to Muhammad, that was in Ramadan. That night is celebrated every year by the Muslims, Laylat Al Qadr, the Night of Power.

I agree that this is applicable to many verses that individuals try to insist are general Islamic teachings, but that really isn't the case with the Sura verse suggesting the general rules of war (which are applicable outside of the context of a specific engagement like the Battle of Badr or Tabuk).

The Qur'an was revealed verses after verses, at the occasion of events that happened. Events would happen and God would send verses, as if giving His opinion about the event. This is how the Qur'an came to be, events after events, verses after verses.

 

[Osomir]

The Qur'an was revealed verses after verses, at the occasion of events that happened. Events would happen and God would send verses, as if giving His opinion about the event. This is how the Qur'an came to be, events after events, verses after verses.

I agree and readers absolutely have to understand that, but that doesn't mean that everything in the Quran is event specific; if that were the case the Quran would be completely outdated and irrelevant for religious use.

 

[Muslim75]

Every verse in the Qur'an is event specific.

If it's not something in the community, it si something about Muhammad's personal spiritual life (peace be upon him and his family).

For example, the first word revealed was "read!". Gabriel said this three times to Muhammad. The rest of the verse is revealed after that, "read in the name of your Lord who created". This happened after Muhammad became extremely holy and sanctified (therefore it is event specific). He used to seclude himself in the cave of Hira, until he became 10000 % holy and sanctified. The very moment it happened, gabriel came to him saying "read!".

The last two chapters of the Qur'an (which are not the last chapters revealed); I am only giving an example, were revealed as Muhammad was bewitched by some people. They are event specific. Every verse in the Qur'an is event specific.

It does not mean the Qur'an is outdated. No. If you believe in God there is no need to talk about this. Indeed, you know that when God says one word, there is in it 1 billion sentences and 1 billion books. The problem is whether or not you know those 1 billion sentences and 1 billion books. It is actually not 1 billion but infinity.