Do liberals like the idea of boot camp? Ideologically, it would seem to fit, right?

[Sallow]

That all you can add?

Is boot camp not a perfect example of near total pure liberalism?

- Gun ban.
- Total equality in pay, shelter, food.
- Free healthcare.
- Green transportation.
- Total racial equality.
- Harsh and stifling government regulation of all aspects of daily life.
- Bans on bad foods.
- Bans on things that are bad for us.


Aside from the yelling and ban on gays, it's liberal utopia, right? Show me where I'm wrong.

And what of all the conservatives who told everyone they were unamerican and unpatriotic for opposing the invasion of Iraq over weapons that never existed? That sounds pretty militaristic to me too.

WOW

The "NO WMDS IN IRAQ" sniper has hit again!!! That topic can just come into a thread from out of nowhere! Awesome!

But since you brought it up, yeah, Bush was fooled, as were all of us. But you know who else was? The generals of the Iraqi Army. Yep. The Iraqi generals were informed by Saddam on the eve of the invasion that they would not have access to WMDs b/c he shipped them out. Ooops. Would be kind of hard to expect Americans to know there were no WMD's when the Iraqi generals, on the eve of the invasion, thought there were

This is what you come up with? Oh gosh.

And your premise sucks. Liberals aren't looking for an egalitarian society..they are look for one that is fair. No we aren't all going to be equal..but no one should go hungry..or be denied health care in the world's richest nation.

We are all Americans..we don't have a caste system. Yeah..some people are going to be poor. Doesn't mean they should live in squalor.

 

[Father Time]

What incredible leaps of logic.

Liberals want us to use greener transportation, running is greener transportation therefore liberals want to ban every transportation save running.

Let me try

Conservatives want less abortions. Killing doctors will decrease abortions, therefore conservatives are OK with randomly killing doctors.

or

Conservatives want less swearing. Cutting out everyone's tongue will do that. Guess what conservatives are suddenly in favor of?

 

[bucs90]

And what of all the conservatives who told everyone they were unamerican and unpatriotic for opposing the invasion of Iraq over weapons that never existed? That sounds pretty militaristic to me too.

WOW

The "NO WMDS IN IRAQ" sniper has hit again!!! That topic can just come into a thread from out of nowhere! Awesome!

But since you brought it up, yeah, Bush was fooled, as were all of us. But you know who else was? The generals of the Iraqi Army. Yep. The Iraqi generals were informed by Saddam on the eve of the invasion that they would not have access to WMDs b/c he shipped them out. Ooops. Would be kind of hard to expect Americans to know there were no WMD's when the Iraqi generals, on the eve of the invasion, thought there were

This is what you come up with? Oh gosh.

And your premise sucks. Liberals aren't looking for an egalitarian society..they are look for one that is fair. No we aren't all going to be equal..but no one should go hungry..or be denied health care in the world's richest nation.

We are all Americans..we don't have a caste system. Yeah..some people are going to be poor. Doesn't mean they should live in squalor.

I didn't come up with anything. Iraqi generals who defected to the US said it. Try reading something other than the NY Times and you'll know stuff like that.

What is "fair"?

Have you seen how fat our poor are? They aren't going hungry.

No one is denied healthcare. Our ER's give it to anyone and everyone. People just dont pay their damn bills. Thats why it's so high. But for us to be so damn fat....yet our life expectancy in the US keeps going up....our healthcare is fine.


By "squalor" do you mean fat, in air conditioning, owning a car, a cell phone, a microwave, a color TV or 2, a refridgerator, a dish washer, a clothes washer and dryer...........if so, think again, because the majority of our "poor" have all that. Our "poor" are among the 7% richest people in the world.

We aren't living in squalor unless a person wants to. Instead we should be focusing on how to preserve our way of life, not on how to knock us down the equal with the rest of the world.

 

[bucs90]

What incredible leaps of logic.

Liberals want us to use greener transportation, running is greener transportation therefore liberals want to ban every transportation save running.

Let me try

Conservatives want less abortions. Killing doctors will decrease abortions, therefore conservatives are OK with randomly killing doctors.

or

Conservatives want less swearing. Cutting out everyone's tongue will do that. Guess what conservatives are suddenly in favor of?

Lefties are currently trying to ban our preferred forms of transportation. Not by banning the vehicle, but making it too expensive to drive. They want us in electric cars, bicycles, on foot.

Killing a doctor is illegal.

Cutting out a tongue is illegal.

See, I provided examples of left wing ideals that are actually happening and are, or could soon be, legal.

Killing and cutting tongues will never be legal. Try again.

 

[Sallow]

WOW

The "NO WMDS IN IRAQ" sniper has hit again!!! That topic can just come into a thread from out of nowhere! Awesome!

But since you brought it up, yeah, Bush was fooled, as were all of us. But you know who else was? The generals of the Iraqi Army. Yep. The Iraqi generals were informed by Saddam on the eve of the invasion that they would not have access to WMDs b/c he shipped them out. Ooops. Would be kind of hard to expect Americans to know there were no WMD's when the Iraqi generals, on the eve of the invasion, thought there were

This is what you come up with? Oh gosh.

And your premise sucks. Liberals aren't looking for an egalitarian society..they are look for one that is fair. No we aren't all going to be equal..but no one should go hungry..or be denied health care in the world's richest nation.

We are all Americans..we don't have a caste system. Yeah..some people are going to be poor. Doesn't mean they should live in squalor.

I didn't come up with anything. Iraqi generals who defected to the US said it. Try reading something other than the NY Times and you'll know stuff like that.

What is "fair"?

Have you seen how fat our poor are? They aren't going hungry.

No one is denied healthcare. Our ER's give it to anyone and everyone. People just dont pay their damn bills. Thats why it's so high. But for us to be so damn fat....yet our life expectancy in the US keeps going up....our healthcare is fine.


By "squalor" do you mean fat, in air conditioning, owning a car, a cell phone, a microwave, a color TV or 2, a refridgerator, a dish washer, a clothes washer and dryer...........if so, think again, because the majority of our "poor" have all that. Our "poor" are among the 7% richest people in the world.

We aren't living in squalor unless a person wants to. Instead we should be focusing on how to preserve our way of life, not on how to knock us down the equal with the rest of the world.

Man.

You haven't a clue about what you are talking about.

None.

Get out every once in a while. Do some charity work.

And..maybe read the New York Times.

 

[bucs90]

This is what you come up with? Oh gosh.

And your premise sucks. Liberals aren't looking for an egalitarian society..they are look for one that is fair. No we aren't all going to be equal..but no one should go hungry..or be denied health care in the world's richest nation.

We are all Americans..we don't have a caste system. Yeah..some people are going to be poor. Doesn't mean they should live in squalor.

I didn't come up with anything. Iraqi generals who defected to the US said it. Try reading something other than the NY Times and you'll know stuff like that.

What is "fair"?

Have you seen how fat our poor are? They aren't going hungry.

No one is denied healthcare. Our ER's give it to anyone and everyone. People just dont pay their damn bills. Thats why it's so high. But for us to be so damn fat....yet our life expectancy in the US keeps going up....our healthcare is fine.


By "squalor" do you mean fat, in air conditioning, owning a car, a cell phone, a microwave, a color TV or 2, a refridgerator, a dish washer, a clothes washer and dryer...........if so, think again, because the majority of our "poor" have all that. Our "poor" are among the 7% richest people in the world.

We aren't living in squalor unless a person wants to. Instead we should be focusing on how to preserve our way of life, not on how to knock us down the equal with the rest of the world.

Man.

You haven't a clue about what you are talking about.

None.

Get out every once in a while. Do some charity work.

And..maybe read the New York Times.

HA!!

I was a cop in southwest Atlanta for 8 years. I don't need charity work to see the true state of the "poor" in America.

Our poor have obesity problems. They aren't starving.
They also often live in homes that are owned. Own cars. TV's. Cell phones. Washer, dryer, fridge, etc.

They dont' live as well as the suburbs. But they aren't hurting like most of the rest of the world either. Despite what the Times and MSNBC tell you.

 

[bucs90]

Oh, and to the WMD sniper...........

Iraq's WMD Secreted in Syria, Sada Says - January 26, 2006 - The New York Sun

There is one of countless links. Saddam's #2 Air Force general says it himself. Iraq cleared seating out of civilian airliners, and flew the WMD's out of the country in the days leading up to the war.

Yeah........

 

[bucs90]

To the guy who said I need to learn more about the poor.........

Poor Politics - Robert Rector - National Review Online


Feel free to attack the source, of course, but then read the source of the source: The Census Bureau.

Our poor aint POOR, they just dont have it as good as the Joneses in the suburb.

 

[Sallow]

I didn't come up with anything. Iraqi generals who defected to the US said it. Try reading something other than the NY Times and you'll know stuff like that.

What is "fair"?

Have you seen how fat our poor are? They aren't going hungry.

No one is denied healthcare. Our ER's give it to anyone and everyone. People just dont pay their damn bills. Thats why it's so high. But for us to be so damn fat....yet our life expectancy in the US keeps going up....our healthcare is fine.


By "squalor" do you mean fat, in air conditioning, owning a car, a cell phone, a microwave, a color TV or 2, a refridgerator, a dish washer, a clothes washer and dryer...........if so, think again, because the majority of our "poor" have all that. Our "poor" are among the 7% richest people in the world.

We aren't living in squalor unless a person wants to. Instead we should be focusing on how to preserve our way of life, not on how to knock us down the equal with the rest of the world.

Man.

You haven't a clue about what you are talking about.

None.

Get out every once in a while. Do some charity work.

And..maybe read the New York Times.

HA!!

I was a cop in southwest Atlanta for 8 years. I don't need charity work to see the true state of the "poor" in America.

Our poor have obesity problems. They aren't starving.
They also often live in homes that are owned. Own cars. TV's. Cell phones. Washer, dryer, fridge, etc.

They dont' live as well as the suburbs. But they aren't hurting like most of the rest of the world either. Despite what the Times and MSNBC tell you.

Yeah..I owned a bar on Peachtree street in Atlanta. Everything gets loaded with sugar and fat in Georgia..the cuisine is terrible and unhealthy as heck.

And yeah..they are "starving". In some places they are malnourished..and in some places they eat poorly.

I was a mover in NYC for 11 years. I have seen how poor die. They get neglected..and die alone in their apartments. The walls are black and everything smells of decay in those places. They leak through floors and ceilings..that's the only way the are remembered.

I see poor in NYC sleeping on church steps. I see them in drug clinics. I see them just giving up on life. That shouldn't be happening.

Given that "conservatives" consider every life "sacred"...it really should stick in your craw that anyone goes without..and dies in misery.

Or maybe..that's just talk.

 

[JScott]

Not in boot camp. Everyone is a new recruit.

After boot, yeah, your rank determines pay. But boot camp is all about absolute equality.

What about the drill sergeant?

He's the authority.

Like the government vs the citizen.

So of course he'd make more.

No, the government still functions. He is a superior. He also has a superior. Not everybody is equal.

 

[JakeStarkey]

One, not everyone believed that WMDs existed in Iraq.

Two, you cannot vet the made up story that SH supposedly shipped out the stuff before the invasion.

Third, you obviously have never been to boot camp.

Fourth, your trollin.

1- you're right. But overwhelming evidence suggested he did. Remember, he used them on his own people. He kicked inspectors out for years and years. His generals thought they had them.

2- I'm not vetting it. Read the writings of his own generals who sought asylum in the US. It's their words, not mine. The left acts like those generals dont exist.

3- How do you know I haven't?

4- Is trolling also used as a term to describe an idea or point that the opposition can't find a rational counter-argument to? If so, yeah, I'm doing that.

1- Give some evidence for the generals, please, from reputable sources. You are not going to a get a first hand sources that says "they were stored in this bunker right here."

2- Neither right nor left doubts that some generals believed SH had them, but none of them have first hand knowledge.

3- Anybody who has been through basic combat training would never dishonor it as you have in this OP.

4- Yeah, you are trolling, in that you make false statements and dishonor our troops.

I have little use for unAmerican language like yours.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Oh, and to the WMD sniper...........

Iraq's WMD Secreted in Syria, Sada Says - January 26, 2006 - The New York Sun

There is one of countless links. Saddam's #2 Air Force general says it himself. Iraq cleared seating out of civilian airliners, and flew the WMD's out of the country in the days leading up to the war.

Yeah........

Try being faithful to the evidence, huh. "The Iraqi general, Georges Sada, makes the charges in a new book, 'Saddam's Secrets,' released this week. He detailed the transfers in an interview yesterday with The New York Sun. // "There are weapons of mass destruction gone out from Iraq to Syria, and they must be found and returned to safe hands," Mr. Sada said. "I am confident they were taken over."

So you got one guy (from generals?) who was not there, who is selling a sensationalized account of what may have happened.

This is the type of nonsense Fox News and MSNBC does all the time. Gives unverified information as if it were factual.

Grow up, bucs90.

 

[uscitizen]

I take it Bucs has not been thru boot?

I do not remember it being much as he described.

Laggards were not given a free ride for one thing.

 

[editec]

I hope everyone takes this thread serious, it's not a troll, and it's to truly try to help me understand the mind of libralism. I dont understand why liberals despise the idea military boot camp. In fact, military boot camp is the embodiment of almost all liberal utopian qualities.

What you're doing is called "begging the question", did you know that?

You see what you do is start out with a "given".

A given is that part your argument that you demand your readers take on face value.

Here's yours:

I dont understand why liberals despise the idea military boot camp

Now in oder for us to take your editorial seriously, we have to SIGN ONTO your given.

We have to accept your theory (based as far as I can tell on nothing whatever except you own childish impression of what liberalism means) that liberals "dispise the idea of military boot camp"

Do you offer your readers any evidence to support this theory of yours, one that you proposed as a GIVEN that we must accept?

No, you don't.

Let me explain:

Guns are banned: Only the government, aka drill sgts, have access to them. The recruits are NOT allowed to have them unless the gov't allows it. They are told when, where, what kind, and ammo is strictly regulated. No one can just have their own personal gun, and no guns anywhere in living and eating areas. Liberal dream.

What?

You imagine that liberals are designing boot camp?!

Apparently you do.

Everyone is absolute economically equal: There is no rich person. No poor person. All persons are paid the same in boot camp. Everyone's house is exactly the same. Everyone's clothing is exactly the same. Everyone's food and gym and transportation is exactly absolutely EQUAL. Any additional benefit is strictly regulated by the gov't (drill sgts).

So you recognize that the military is a form of socialistic fascism?

Good for you!

No fossil fuel for transportation: Here is a wonderful liberal dream. In boot camp, the citizens (recruits) RUN everywhere. The range, the gym, the sleeping quarters, the cafeteria. The greenest of green energy: running.

All races are equal: In the famous words of R. Lee Ermy in Full Metal Jacket: "There are no dikes, nigg**s, whops, greasers in my corp.........here you are all equally worthless". Liberals want nothing more than for all races to be totally equal. Here it is in it's purest form!

Bad foods are banned: Yep. No soda. No happy meals. The meals are bland, and everyone gets fed the exact same, regardless of race, gender, ethnicity or economic class (remember economic class doesn't exist here). In FMJ, Gunnery Sgt Hartman even told his folks "You wont find fried chicken or watermelon in my mess hall!!". Wonderful. He has banned the foods that are bad for them!!!

Equal education: Everyone gets the exact same education. 100%. In boot camp, every person will be taught as an equal to the other. No exception.

Free healthcare: Yes!!! Free gov't funded healthcare for all!!!! The liberal dream!!! It's here also.

And then I thought of the best one. I notice liberals want to ban or regulate anything the percieve as bad for us. And what is more bad for us than death, right? And then I remembered the other legendary USMC instruction: "YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DIE WITHOUT PERMISSION!"

Wow. The military is so good at banning what is bad for us, they have even banned dying without permission. Nancy Pelosi herself would be envious of this big gov't regulation!!!




So, I ask myself, why don't liberals advocate military style boot camp for society in general??? Is that not the closest representation to liberal utopia in our country?

Silly boy.

You are confusing liberalism with military authoritarianism.

What you just did I have heard countless (also) clueless liberals do, only they thought that the military was a conservative system.

The military is the perfect example of an authoritarian society.

It isn't liberal, neither is it conservative, it is authoritarian.

 

[konradv]

That all you can add?

Is boot camp not a perfect example of near total pure liberalism?

- Gun ban.
- Total equality in pay, shelter, food.
- Free healthcare.
- Green transportation.
- Total racial equality.
- Harsh and stifling government regulation of all aspects of daily life.
- Bans on bad foods.
- Bans on things that are bad for us.


Aside from the yelling and ban on gays, it's liberal utopia, right? Show me where I'm wrong.

You're wrong in that you're speaking for others and creating a "straw man" that you expect us to defend. Speak for yourself and I'll speak for myself. I could just as easily ask you why conservatives want running gun battles in the street over food and shelter where anyone injured gets left on the ground if they can't pay, making black people pick up the bodies and transport them at their own expense, while keeping them in line with meager rations of sub-standard food? Please explain to me why this is the CONSERVATIVE AGENDA?!?!

 

[editec]

That all you can add?

Is boot camp not a perfect example of near total pure liberalism?

- Gun ban.
- Total equality in pay, shelter, food.
- Free healthcare.
- Green transportation.
- Total racial equality.
- Harsh and stifling government regulation of all aspects of daily life.
- Bans on bad foods.
- Bans on things that are bad for us.


Aside from the yelling and ban on gays, it's liberal utopia, right? Show me where I'm wrong.

You're wrong in that you're speaking for others and creating a "straw man" that you expect us to defend. Speak for yourself and I'll speak for myself. I could just as easily ask you why conservatives want running gun battles in the street over food and shelter where anyone injured gets left on the ground if they can't pay, making black people pick up the bodies and transport them at their own expense, while keeping them in line with meager rations of sub-standard food? Please explain to me why this is the CONSERVATIVE AGENDA?!?!

Yup.

You got it in one.

He creates a straw man (in this case the strawman is liberal) which he then beats up.

Whata guy, huh?

What astounds me is that generally I think these people don't really understand how stupid this sort of thing makes them appear to anybody who understands debate.

 

[NYcarbineer]

That all you can add?

Is boot camp not a perfect example of near total pure liberalism?

- Gun ban.
- Total equality in pay, shelter, food.
- Free healthcare.
- Green transportation.
- Total racial equality.
- Harsh and stifling government regulation of all aspects of daily life.
- Bans on bad foods.
- Bans on things that are bad for us.


Aside from the yelling and ban on gays, it's liberal utopia, right? Show me where I'm wrong.

Well, consider this:

Conservatives by an overwhelming consensus revere, adore, in fact all but worship the military,

which would thus mean that conservatives are in love with an institution that is in fact an extremely accurate representation of Liberal Utopia.

(that was easy...give me a more difficult scenario that I can transform into making you look like a fucking imbecile).

Well, football camp also practices those collective ideals. And we love football. See, I expected the far lefties to not comprehend the point of this thread. See my above post.

But boot camp, and football camp, are VOLUNTARY. Thats a big difference in a government forcing those ideals involuntarily upon a people.

The point is absolute far left equality can only be achieved through overwhelming authoritarian force. Squashing the ones who resist. It's why China, Russia, North Korea, Cuba, etc, etc, are the way they are in trying to force communist policies.

So when we see far left politicians creeping farther and farther left, starting class envy and class warfare, fostering the mindset that everyone deserves equality in all things..........well, it can be done, but only 1 way.

In case you haven't noticed, we vote on what is done or not done in this country.

It is the right that wants most to impose tyranny on Americans they disagree with. But that's a problem in this country because of our Constitution and the democratic processes that it mandates, not to mention that the right is a minority itself.

So how does the Right solve that problem? By fighting for State's Rights. By increasing states' rights, you subdivide that democratic process into many small constituencies, at least some of which may contain constituencies that have rightwing majorities who can then, via the democratic process and without interference from the nation as a whole,

impose their will on those non-conservative minorities within that state.

 

[NYcarbineer]

1. I don't recall getting to vote on anything in boot camp.

2. I don't know of many, if any, liberals who want to abolish voting.

 

[editec]

I remember going though boot camp (Jesus! over 40 years ago!!) and thinking to myself how brilliantlly it was designed to break us down and build us up into a useful tool.

I don't know who (if anybody) designed boot camp. I suspect the process of boot camp was organically designed over time to control recruits.

But that system is rather brilliant.

It manipulates people and plays on their weaknesses to create a sense of group identity.

Now seriously...does anyone here think that such a brilliantly maipulative system for brainwashing could have been designed based on either a liberal or conservative POV?

Seriously?

Trying to impose the liberal v conservative paradigm on something like boot camp is just silly to the max.

In fact trying to suggest that the military is anything BUT an authoritarian system of power and control, or and in any way a political event is rather missing the point of the military (and its role in society) entirely.

But as so many partisians are clueless idiots, this sort of goofy blather is to be expected in a place like this.

 

[Mr Natural]

That all you can add?

Is boot camp not a perfect example of near total pure liberalism?

- Gun ban.
- Total equality in pay, shelter, food.
- Free healthcare.
- Green transportation.
- Total racial equality.
- Harsh and stifling government regulation of all aspects of daily life.
- Bans on bad foods.
- Bans on things that are bad for us.


Aside from the yelling and ban on gays, it's liberal utopia, right? Show me where I'm wrong.

Imagine that, the OP has managed to spin the military, the holiest of the conservative's institutions into an exercise in Liberalism.

Well done, Bucko!