Do It Right This Time Israel

[Daniyel]

....
So I don't really know where you wanna go with this, so far you blame us [me] for demonizing the other side like the Nazis, do you really believe to a random text published like the one Beezlebub published recently claiming there are 5,100,000 dead Palestinians - comon get real, I don't even ask for apology or admitting publicly that you were wrong, but I only request some small value of honesty.

You are lying there Danny Boy.

I did no such thing.

My apologize, it was @Rehamani

I was somewhat remembering you because you made a comment right after me, again, my bad.

 

[Phoenall]

Except me and Lipush I don't think they are Israelis, but this is not even the point, you are talking about 'demonizing' but you didn't show one example or any type of evidence for that, what do you expect me to say? I told ya its a general answer to the question.
Anyway because we are probably talking about two different things, I would like you to explain how do we demonize the Palestinians, or at least how did I demonized the Palestinians?

Oh, stop it! Stop being so obtuse! Just look at all the pro-Israeli crowd posts at this website that has to do with the Palestinian's. I haven't seen one of them that side with the Pals on any issue. Nor do I see any that empathize with what they are going through. On the contrary, all the posts try to justify wiping them out, or defend bombing the shit out of them, or denying atrocities committed by Israel.

A Palestinian teen is murdered on video and all you fuckers say is that the film was faked. It was Pallywood. When innocent Palestinian's are murdered by the IDF, your reactions are not outrage, its contempt and disdain towards those who went public about the incident.

I Do not have to apologize on behalf of the others expressing themselves, and it is only your opinion so far, if you want to discuss about things I said - very well - if not just stop attaching me every title that fits your agenda.
If you wish to talk about peace and possible solutions, I believe you can feel free to bump up the threads I opened about Peace (twice I think) and the Raved Family Forum, your presence was MISSING.
I'm proud to be pro-Israeli and you bend your nose because I'm expressing my own opinion, is this a democratic-perspective Billo? Do YOU ever considered that you might be wrong? eg about the kidnapping?
However, if you want to discuss or debate about certain specific issue, feel free, I'm always open for talking, but the fact you are calling me obtuse for expressing my own opinion is wrong Billo, you don't have to like my opinion pretty much as I hate your logic and perspective.

They are also enjoying medical care from Israel, inside of Israel, how do we treat them as sub-humans? which basic human-rights we deny from them? be specific.
They can leave Gaza anywhere they want, the same as people can visit Gaza anytime they want, they can't go to Israel, and its Egypt you should blame for Rafah checkpoint.

They can't leave Gaza!

Fuck, they can't even fish, without getting shot at!

toasty Already responded to that, and so did I, they are free to leave Gaza, free to fish, free to elect a government that their only purpose is to annihilate us, we are free to do the same aren't we? and again, you relay your accusations on text someone published, not an audio or video, even when I relate to that you toss away a raw fact I base my claim that disprove the entire "evidence" eg. Armored Jeeps.
So I don't really know where you wanna go with this, so far you blame us [me] for demonizing the other side like the Nazis, do you really believe to a random text published like the one Beezlebub published recently claiming there are 5,100,000 dead Palestinians - comon get real, I don't even ask for apology or admitting publicly that you were wrong, but I only request some small value of honesty.

No Billo, we don't blame them for the "majority" of the problems in Israel, I think I was very specific what we blame them for, and it doesn't involve even indirectly the Palestinians for un-employment problem, we blame them for electing Hamas - true, we blame Hamas for the escalation of violence in Gaza - true, that's it, and this is not our only problems, not even by the only military problems, I think you were VERY specific claiming that we blame them for ALL the problems in our country, I explained to you precisely why not, you just repeat what you think based on your feeling but not on reality ground, what do you want me to say? did I blame them for anything except the escalation and violence in Gaza before? seriously I'm waiting for you to point it out because I don't think its fair you keep accusing me for things I didn't do, and not even providing any proof.

Why would you blame them for electing Hamas? Who they choose as their leaders, is none of your god-damn business! And you do blame them for 100% of the violence. So cut the crap!

If Hamas was trying to negotiate with Israel instead of hitting the rock, there was no blockade at all, I don't blame them for electing Hamas, it is their own free will I'm not gonna argue with that, but I do hold them accountable for Hamas actions because everything has a consequences, I could care less if they were electing IS as long as they intend to preserve the peace - so be it.
Silence would be answered by silence this is what Bibi said, and this is what is the majority here in Israel believe so, ask Lipush about it if you don't take my word, and feel free to ask anyone else.

Honestly Billo this is a complete bullshit and lame answer, you dodge the subject, and this is a coward's perspective, I never ask you to either like us or say something on this matter, but you decisively claim we are irresponsible and again - blaming them Palestinians - on everything, fine I don't care what you think, but what is that have to do with the question and the Nazis comparison again? stop demonizing, stop tell me what I think.

It's not bullshit at all. Saying you have "no choice but to respond", is the comment of a coward. Because you won't ask yourself, "Why don't I have any choice but to respond?" Which leads to the rockets, but you won't ask yourself, "Why am I getting rockets?" and the answer to THAT, your country is too pussy to deal with. Which is the "occupation" itself. The occupation is the cause of the violence. The blockade is the cause of the violence. But you're too big of a coward, to put yourself in their shoes and think about how you would handle things if your country was occupied by a foreign force. Or if your country was quarantined to the point where you barely received the basic necessities to live. But you won't do that. You won't put yourself in their position, because you refuse to empathize with what they are going through. What you do instead, is make up these bullshit lies about them being terrorists.

Billo, if waiting for the rockets to kill another 4 years old kid is considered a bravery then fine I want to be a coward, and now you really pissed me off, so far the Palestinians broke so many agreements I already lost the count, but you don't consider this as a betrayal from the Palestinians so of course you can think to yourself "hey why aren't they asking themselves why it happens?! I guess they only need excuses to attack Gaza" - WRONG WRONG AND WRONG.
Here I'm gonna repeat what I said before you probably haven't experienced any kind of violence beyond a mosquito bite but try to get it a little proportional, when someone launch rockets at you, not once, but countless times you don't ask yourself "why they are doing so" because beyond the fact its obvious that they are violent scums and I'm sorry for not surrendering to violence or terrorism, but beyond that you believe its obvious they want you DEAD, you hear me Billo? DEAD, not two state solution, not a diplomatic solution, not a peaceful truce, not a peace-treaty, not a ceasefire, but DEAD AND HUMILIATED.
After launching 10,000 rockets - if its not obvious that they cannot achieve with violence the "peace" they want what the hell do you expect? they "retaliate" for every attack, fine - any good came out of it except for some dead innocents and damage to property?! NO so why keep launching rockets? Because THIS IS SERVING THEIR GOAL - KILL ISRAELIS, and I blasting in your face but you cannot see that, so perhaps you can finally answer to me what good came from launching those rockets in the first place? and don't tell me its a response out of anger, they did so during ceasefires countless times, and even if you want to debate about it, I'm gonna ask you this, do you really expect a rational leadership to "retaliate" like that? did Mexico retaliate? did Japan retaliate? did Iraq retaliate? I bet you also believe they are not the very rational people on earth but they still have a common sense do they?

The Bedouins have their own battalion in the IDF, they are an ethnic group that refuse to own a state, what the hell are you talking about? one of my best friends in the IDF is a Bedouin, do you think you can forgive us if he did?

Oh please, you're relocating about 70,000 of them out into a tent city in the Negav desert just so you can have a park to walk your dog.

Actually the Bedouin is a strange subject, I'm not gonna respond to that HERE but I'm gonna ask you to open a thread and we can discuss that separately.

I think you should stop demonizing, and telling everyone what we - the Israelis - do, or at least 'think' or say, because I believe we are pretty capable of expressing ourselves very well,.

When your expressions are truthful, instead of bullshit lies, I'll stop talking about them.

Is that the best you can do? calling my expressions a "bullshit lies"? this is not a way to discuss nor to debate, I'm talking on my behalf and you call me a liar, you also pretend to say what I think, how is this going to a conversation if I'm not allowed to think for myself Billo?

You are lying about everything. There is not one truthful comment in your posts. For example, the people cannot leave Gaza, the borders are closed. They cannot fish where there are fish, because the Israelis have a naval blockade. You deny both of those facts. You are a Hasbara shill, that is all.

The fact is the only people closing the borders to outgoing Palestinians is hamas. If they want to leave they can, they just cant return in case they are carrying weapons. The majority of the fish in the Med are within 3 miles of the shore, it is a shallow sea with little if any tidal motion. The majority of food is in that 3 mile area as it gets heat from the sun and the land causing an explosion of the fishes food. Further out the water is cooler and more sterile due to the masses of pollution pumped into it out there. Every Med country dumps raw sewage close to shore because of the lack of tidal flow, so it sinks and is not washed ashore.

You are an uneducated ISLAMONAZI ILLITERATE CONVERT that has sold out to islam

 

[Phoenall]

A Palestinian teen is murdered on video and all you fuckers say is that the film was faked. It was Pallywood. When innocent Palestinian's are murdered by the IDF, your reactions are not outrage, its contempt and disdain towards those who went public about the incident.

And then the "teen" gets up and walks away.

Yep the morons always seem to forget about the video recording that shows this, and the one that shows the practise run

 

[Phoenall]

NO

NO

NO

NO

NO


and yiu cant produce any valid evidence to support your ISLAMONAZI LIES

All the evidence I need is in your posts.

Then you should have no problem producing it, instead of back pedalling all the time.

First off you need to get cause and effect correct. The blockade happened as a result of the rocket fire. The rocket fire did not happen as a result of the blockade. Second off they would have imports of necessities if they hadn't fired rockets into Israel. 3rd off Why should Israel have to open their borders to non-Israelites? I think they should completely seal the border leading to Gaza and leave the Gazans to fend for themselves. And that's if they stop the rocket fire. If they don't stop the rocket fire than I'm for the entire eradication of all Gazans. Police your own or die.

There was no rocket fire before the blockade until 28 March 2006. The Israelis have controlled Gaza land borders, territorial sea and airspace since 2005.

The rockets started in 2005 when Israel unilaterally left gaza under the terms of the Oslo accords.

Here you go child a link to show you are a LIAR, or very misguided

List of Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel 2002 06 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


574 mortar shells and 286 Qassam rockets were fired at Israel in 2005. These caused 6 deaths and 68 were injured.[1]
January 5, 2005
Nissim Arbiv, 26, of Nissanit, was severely injured by a mortar shell in the Erez industrial zone. He died from his injuries ten days later.[4][dead link]
January 15, 2005
A Qassam rocket attack on Sderot left Ayala Abukasis, 17, brain dead. Ayala was struck while attempting to shield her 11-year-old brother, who suffered minor injuries. She died on January 21.[citation needed]
February 9, 2005
A barrage of 25 to 50 Qassam rockets and mortar shells hit Neve Dekalim settlement, and another barrage hit at noon. Hamas said it was in retaliation for an attack in which one Palestinian was killed near an Israeli settlement.[5]
June 7, 2005
Two Palestinian workers, Salah Ayash Imran, 57, Muhammed Mahmoud Jaroun, and a foreign worker Bi Shude, 46, were killed, and five other workers were wounded, when a Qassam rocket hit a packing shed in Ganei Tal, in the Gaza Strip. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the attack.[6]
July 14, 2005
Dana Galkowicz, 22, was killed in a Qassam attack in Kibbutz Netiv Ha'asara, just north of the Gaza Strip. Hamas, Islamic Jihad Movement in Palestine and Fatah all claimed responsibility for the attack.[7]
August 25, 2005
Two Qassam rockets fired out of the Gaza Strip by Palestinian militants landed near the southern Israeli town of Sderot.[8][9]
September 12, 2005
Several hours after Israel withdraws the last of its troops from the Gaza Strip two Qassam rockets are fired by Palestinian militants from the Gaza Strip. The first lands near the Israeli town of Sderot, while the second lands near Kibbutz Yad Mordechai.[10][11]
September 24, 2005
Five Israelis were injured when Palestinian militants launched about 30 rockets on Israeli communities from the Gaza Strip. This attack followed an incident the previous day, in which 20 Palestinians, including 16 civilians, were killed when a vehicle carrying Qassam rockets exploded during a Hamas rally in Jabalya. The exact circumstances surrounding the incident are still unknown. To date, no evidence has been found to substantiate Hamas’ claim that Israeli interference was responsible for the accident.[12]
December 11, 2005
A rocket fired from Jenin in the West Bank landed near Ram-On. It was the first Palestinian rocket attack from the West Bank.[13][14]
December 14, 2005
Jitladda Tap-arsa, 20, a female Thai national, was killed by a mortar while working in a greenhouse in the Gush Katif settlement of Ganei Tal.[4][dead link]
December 26, 2005
A Qassam rocket landed near a kindergarten during a Hanukkah party at kibbutz Sa'ad.[15]
2006[edit]
1,247 rockets and 28 mortars were fired at Israel in 2006.[1]


Rocket attack on Mitzpe Hila, 2006
February 3, 2006
A Qassam rocket struck a family's house in the western Negev village of Karmia, moderately injuring four people, including a 7-month-old baby.[16]
March 28, 2006
Islamic Jihad fired a 122 mm Katyusha rocket from the Gaza Strip into Israel.[17] Near the Kibbutz Nachal Oz two Israeli-Arabs (Salam Ziadin and Khalid, 16, a Bedouin father and son) were killed when a dormant Qassam rocket they found in the Nahal Oz area exploded.[citation needed] Katyushas, frequently used by Hezbollah in Lebanon, had never before been fired from Gaza. Larger numbers of Qassam rockets began landing in the Western Negev in March 2006: 49 in March, 64 in April, 46 in May, and over 83 by the end of June. Most of the rocket launches prior to 2006 were carried out by Islamic Jihad but following Hamas's election victory, other groups such as Palestinian Islamic Jihad Movement have been claimed to take over the firings.[citation needed]
March 30, 2006
Two Qassam rockets landed in kibbutz Karmia, south of Ashkelon, one of them in a football field, where children played only hours earlier, and injured one person

 

[Phoenall]

....
So I don't really know where you wanna go with this, so far you blame us [me] for demonizing the other side like the Nazis, do you really believe to a random text published like the one Beezlebub published recently claiming there are 5,100,000 dead Palestinians - comon get real, I don't even ask for apology or admitting publicly that you were wrong, but I only request some small value of honesty.

You are lying there Danny Boy.

I did no such thing.

You did and I corrected it for you, even claimed that it was a typo because you were looking very silly

 

[Beelzebub]

Yes dear.

 

[Penelope]

[QUOTE="Penelope, post: 9675280, member: 50023

One tiny difference Zionists don't go round flying planes into buildings, planting bombs on trains and trying to fry 3000 innocent men, women and children in an airport concourse. There was a poll not that long ago amongst muslims that showed 65% were terrorists or terrorist sympathisers. An alarming number don't you think, more so when you put it into actual whole numbers and find that there are more muslim terrorists than there are actual Jews alive in the world. In fact there are more muslim terrorists than there are Americans, makes it even more interesting[/QUOTE]
You have a long history of terrosim. Begin with the Lehi Group, and work over to the Kind David Hotel, and the the American Embassy in Egypt which went horribly wrong.

Never heard of Muslims flying planes into buildings either , have you?

 

[Daniyel]

I'm not a fan of the Palestinians but its a far long way between demonizing with false lies or misleading in purpose to simply state my opinion based on facts Billo, Hamas are Palestinians but I don't include them with the Palestinians, I make the separation talking about Hamas, for example 'Under the HAMAS dictatorship' is not 'Under the Palestinians dictatorship' and in case you didn't notice its full of evidence to base my claim.
If you think I demonized please feel free to quote me..but please be honest about whether I'm truth or lie.
Once I base my claim over solid raw evidence you cannot call it a lie.

Your claim that Hamas is a dictatorship is a lie.

And those threads were just the tip of the iceberg.

Since you said these are just a tip of the iceberg I'm gonna have to ask you again to quote me, since my thread "Under the Hamas Dictatorship" is the only one suggested I'm gonna have to ask you again, is this how I'm demonizing the Palestinians?
And about the Hamas, I filled the thread with raw evidence to base my claim.
You can feel free to post about any of these evidence to disprove my based claim that Hamas is a dictatorship.
You can also note to the separation I made between Hamas and the Palestinians, also in the a statement I made in this thread..

Peace with the Palestinians - Possible.
Peace with Hamas/Fatah/PFLP/PLO - IMPOSSIBLE.

Kill the terrorists, later negotiate.

I've seen the video, its called alert shoot, this was a provocative attempt like the IHH flotilla, a simple fishermen don't go with camera to fish, and they look pretty fine to me, you really think shooting in the water as a warning sign to be a deliberate attack of fishermen/activists? comon Billo.

One of my comparisons with the Nazis was you accept any kind of violence against the Pals. If you were a normal human being, after seeing that video, you'd think to yourself, "Who the fuck shoots at people fishing?" There is no reason on earth to justify that kind of action. It's just mean and evil. Yet, you're okay with it. Thanks for proving my point.

I'm not against violence when necessary, but I'm against violence when there are peaceful alternatives.
The shots aimed NOT to the fishermen/ACTIVISTS but to WARN THEM NOT T GET ANY CLOSER.
If they cannot understand the line drew by Israel, that NOBODY CAN PASS THE BLOCKADE AT ALL - There is not other alternative but to warn them Israel is very serious about it.
They failed to understand the calls of the IDF to go back, several times, but the did understand the warning shots..
Is this called "shooting AT PEOPLE fishing"? NO, Its called DEMONIZING IDF by claiming IDF DOES THAT, WHEN ITS OBVIOUS IN YOUR VIDEO THEY DID NOT.

I didn't say anything without a solid ground to base my statements, the fact its either good or bad is only the way we humans see it, 99% of the time I'm talking about Israelis, not Palestinians, and most of the time I talking about the bad deeds of someone its called JUSTICE, and I'm not going to apologize for it because this is the right thing to do, 99% of the bad things I'm talking about are the Hamas/Other terrorist organizations deeds, and how is this even comparable with the Nazis!? Seriously Hamas is IS and IS is Hamas, bad enough? sure lets NOT talk about the things that do matter..where you think we can get with that attitude Billo?

99% of the things you talk about the Palestinian's are bad. Period.

Feel free to quote me or apologize for that stupid statement Billo.

Israel did not violate a single ceasefire, this is a false graph made to mislead on purpose or shall I say demonize? its very convenient to take the statistics based on specific time only but I will relate to that by stating that 'Palestinian injuries & death' as they claim is also TERRORISTS injuries & death(Hamas, mostly)
Operation Pillar of Defense - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

False graph my ass. Do you have any evidence that would validate your claim? Or is this just what you "believe"? Because if it is, I'm not going to argue against that. You're free to believe whatever you want to. It's only when you try to push that belief off as fact, do we have an issue.

As far as the statistics based on a specific time, that is highly relevant to this issue. Because it shows the Israeli's shooting first and the Palestinian's responding to Israeli missile attacks.

Of course I do, and I posted the evidence in my post, you didn't bother to read it, your problem not mine.
And I proved the graph is a lie in my first statement, Israel did not violate A SINGLE CEASEFIRE..its the responsibility of the accusing side to provide evidence for the accusation, not to repeat the accusation without evidence.

Nope, I believe this document is a lie, although I'll relate to that as true, "economic warfare" against the Islamist group Hamas. in other terms it means not allowing Hamas to arm themselves, fighting a terrorist organization with economic warfare is beyond legitimate but also moral don't you think? instead of letting them get those weapons that only intend to hurt people, simply prevent them from having them in the first place.

Now that's convenient! Simply choosing not to believe evidence, when you have nothing that would lead you to that conclusion.

And economic warfare punishes everyone in Gaza. That is collective punishment. Collective punishment is a war crime. Therefore, the blockade is illegal, immoral and a crime against humanity.

I related to that as true although I have all the right to question its authenticity.
An "economic warfare" does punish entire Gaza, but its not aimed to do so, and it does hurt the terrorists much more than it hurts the civilians, Israel allow all type of import/export under Israeli authority to prevent weapons from reaching the hands of terrorists, that's how you run an "economic warfare" against the terrorists while minimizing the damage to the rest of the population as much as possible, and yes, this is necessary, and it is not a war crime, its fully legal and legitimate reaction, and this is the moral deed for the sake of humanity.

 

[MJB12741]

Well it's now over 2000 dead Palestinians, much of Gaza left in ruins & the border shall remain closed. Yet another VICTORY for Hamas, the duly elected government of the Palestinian people themselves. Well done boys. Well done.

AOL.com Article - Israel Hamas agree to open-ended Gaza cease-fire

@MJB12741 you have to admit that Hamass beat the IDF to a frazzle. Kicked them around like a redheaded step-child. We'll get 'em next time!

LOL! Yup, just wait till the next game.

 

[montelatici]

I'm not a fan of the Palestinians but its a far long way between demonizing with false lies or misleading in purpose to simply state my opinion based on facts Billo, Hamas are Palestinians but I don't include them with the Palestinians, I make the separation talking about Hamas, for example 'Under the HAMAS dictatorship' is not 'Under the Palestinians dictatorship' and in case you didn't notice its full of evidence to base my claim.
If you think I demonized please feel free to quote me..but please be honest about whether I'm truth or lie.
Once I base my claim over solid raw evidence you cannot call it a lie.

Your claim that Hamas is a dictatorship is a lie.

And those threads were just the tip of the iceberg.

Since you said these are just a tip of the iceberg I'm gonna have to ask you again to quote me, since my thread "Under the Hamas Dictatorship" is the only one suggested I'm gonna have to ask you again, is this how I'm demonizing the Palestinians?
And about the Hamas, I filled the thread with raw evidence to base my claim.
You can feel free to post about any of these evidence to disprove my based claim that Hamas is a dictatorship.
You can also note to the separation I made between Hamas and the Palestinians, also in the a statement I made in this thread..

Peace with the Palestinians - Possible.
Peace with Hamas/Fatah/PFLP/PLO - IMPOSSIBLE.

Kill the terrorists, later negotiate.

I've seen the video, its called alert shoot, this was a provocative attempt like the IHH flotilla, a simple fishermen don't go with camera to fish, and they look pretty fine to me, you really think shooting in the water as a warning sign to be a deliberate attack of fishermen/activists? comon Billo.

One of my comparisons with the Nazis was you accept any kind of violence against the Pals. If you were a normal human being, after seeing that video, you'd think to yourself, "Who the fuck shoots at people fishing?" There is no reason on earth to justify that kind of action. It's just mean and evil. Yet, you're okay with it. Thanks for proving my point.

I'm not against violence when necessary, but I'm against violence when there are peaceful alternatives.
The shots aimed NOT to the fishermen/ACTIVISTS but to WARN THEM NOT T GET ANY CLOSER.
If they cannot understand the line drew by Israel, that NOBODY CAN PASS THE BLOCKADE AT ALL - There is not other alternative but to warn them Israel is very serious about it.
They failed to understand the calls of the IDF to go back, several times, but the did understand the warning shots..
Is this called "shooting AT PEOPLE fishing"? NO, Its called DEMONIZING IDF by claiming IDF DOES THAT, WHEN ITS OBVIOUS IN YOUR VIDEO THEY DID NOT.

I didn't say anything without a solid ground to base my statements, the fact its either good or bad is only the way we humans see it, 99% of the time I'm talking about Israelis, not Palestinians, and most of the time I talking about the bad deeds of someone its called JUSTICE, and I'm not going to apologize for it because this is the right thing to do, 99% of the bad things I'm talking about are the Hamas/Other terrorist organizations deeds, and how is this even comparable with the Nazis!? Seriously Hamas is IS and IS is Hamas, bad enough? sure lets NOT talk about the things that do matter..where you think we can get with that attitude Billo?

99% of the things you talk about the Palestinian's are bad. Period.

Feel free to quote me or apologize for that stupid statement Billo.

Israel did not violate a single ceasefire, this is a false graph made to mislead on purpose or shall I say demonize? its very convenient to take the statistics based on specific time only but I will relate to that by stating that 'Palestinian injuries & death' as they claim is also TERRORISTS injuries & death(Hamas, mostly)
Operation Pillar of Defense - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

False graph my ass. Do you have any evidence that would validate your claim? Or is this just what you "believe"? Because if it is, I'm not going to argue against that. You're free to believe whatever you want to. It's only when you try to push that belief off as fact, do we have an issue.

As far as the statistics based on a specific time, that is highly relevant to this issue. Because it shows the Israeli's shooting first and the Palestinian's responding to Israeli missile attacks.

Of course I do, and I posted the evidence in my post, you didn't bother to read it, your problem not mine.
And I proved the graph is a lie in my first statement, Israel did not violate A SINGLE CEASEFIRE..its the responsibility of the accusing side to provide evidence for the accusation, not to repeat the accusation without evidence.

Nope, I believe this document is a lie, although I'll relate to that as true, "economic warfare" against the Islamist group Hamas. in other terms it means not allowing Hamas to arm themselves, fighting a terrorist organization with economic warfare is beyond legitimate but also moral don't you think? instead of letting them get those weapons that only intend to hurt people, simply prevent them from having them in the first place.

Now that's convenient! Simply choosing not to believe evidence, when you have nothing that would lead you to that conclusion.

And economic warfare punishes everyone in Gaza. That is collective punishment. Collective punishment is a war crime. Therefore, the blockade is illegal, immoral and a crime against humanity.

I related to that as true although I have all the right to question its authenticity.
An "economic warfare" does punish entire Gaza, but its not aimed to do so, and it does hurt the terrorists much more than it hurts the civilians, Israel allow all type of import/export under Israeli authority to prevent weapons from reaching the hands of terrorists, that's how you run an "economic warfare" against the terrorists while minimizing the damage to the rest of the population as much as possible, and yes, this is necessary, and it is not a war crime, its fully legal and legitimate reaction, and this is the moral deed for the sake of humanity.

" Israel allow all type of import/export under Israeli authority to prevent weapons from reaching the hands of terrorists,"

That is complete balderdash, basically a lie. Fishermen can't even fish outside of 3 nautical mile limit and Israel prevents most goods from entering Gaza, by any route.

"a Fact-Finding Mission for the UN Human Rights Council chaired by a former judge of the International Criminal Court, as well as a panel of five independent U.N. rights experts concluded that the blockade constituted collective punishment of the population of Gaza and was therefore unlawful."

Blockade of the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[Daniyel]

I'm not a fan of the Palestinians but its a far long way between demonizing with false lies or misleading in purpose to simply state my opinion based on facts Billo, Hamas are Palestinians but I don't include them with the Palestinians, I make the separation talking about Hamas, for example 'Under the HAMAS dictatorship' is not 'Under the Palestinians dictatorship' and in case you didn't notice its full of evidence to base my claim.
If you think I demonized please feel free to quote me..but please be honest about whether I'm truth or lie.
Once I base my claim over solid raw evidence you cannot call it a lie.

Your claim that Hamas is a dictatorship is a lie.

And those threads were just the tip of the iceberg.

Since you said these are just a tip of the iceberg I'm gonna have to ask you again to quote me, since my thread "Under the Hamas Dictatorship" is the only one suggested I'm gonna have to ask you again, is this how I'm demonizing the Palestinians?
And about the Hamas, I filled the thread with raw evidence to base my claim.
You can feel free to post about any of these evidence to disprove my based claim that Hamas is a dictatorship.
You can also note to the separation I made between Hamas and the Palestinians, also in the a statement I made in this thread..

Peace with the Palestinians - Possible.
Peace with Hamas/Fatah/PFLP/PLO - IMPOSSIBLE.

Kill the terrorists, later negotiate.

I've seen the video, its called alert shoot, this was a provocative attempt like the IHH flotilla, a simple fishermen don't go with camera to fish, and they look pretty fine to me, you really think shooting in the water as a warning sign to be a deliberate attack of fishermen/activists? comon Billo.

One of my comparisons with the Nazis was you accept any kind of violence against the Pals. If you were a normal human being, after seeing that video, you'd think to yourself, "Who the fuck shoots at people fishing?" There is no reason on earth to justify that kind of action. It's just mean and evil. Yet, you're okay with it. Thanks for proving my point.

I'm not against violence when necessary, but I'm against violence when there are peaceful alternatives.
The shots aimed NOT to the fishermen/ACTIVISTS but to WARN THEM NOT T GET ANY CLOSER.
If they cannot understand the line drew by Israel, that NOBODY CAN PASS THE BLOCKADE AT ALL - There is not other alternative but to warn them Israel is very serious about it.
They failed to understand the calls of the IDF to go back, several times, but the did understand the warning shots..
Is this called "shooting AT PEOPLE fishing"? NO, Its called DEMONIZING IDF by claiming IDF DOES THAT, WHEN ITS OBVIOUS IN YOUR VIDEO THEY DID NOT.

I didn't say anything without a solid ground to base my statements, the fact its either good or bad is only the way we humans see it, 99% of the time I'm talking about Israelis, not Palestinians, and most of the time I talking about the bad deeds of someone its called JUSTICE, and I'm not going to apologize for it because this is the right thing to do, 99% of the bad things I'm talking about are the Hamas/Other terrorist organizations deeds, and how is this even comparable with the Nazis!? Seriously Hamas is IS and IS is Hamas, bad enough? sure lets NOT talk about the things that do matter..where you think we can get with that attitude Billo?

99% of the things you talk about the Palestinian's are bad. Period.

Feel free to quote me or apologize for that stupid statement Billo.

Israel did not violate a single ceasefire, this is a false graph made to mislead on purpose or shall I say demonize? its very convenient to take the statistics based on specific time only but I will relate to that by stating that 'Palestinian injuries & death' as they claim is also TERRORISTS injuries & death(Hamas, mostly)
Operation Pillar of Defense - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

False graph my ass. Do you have any evidence that would validate your claim? Or is this just what you "believe"? Because if it is, I'm not going to argue against that. You're free to believe whatever you want to. It's only when you try to push that belief off as fact, do we have an issue.

As far as the statistics based on a specific time, that is highly relevant to this issue. Because it shows the Israeli's shooting first and the Palestinian's responding to Israeli missile attacks.

Of course I do, and I posted the evidence in my post, you didn't bother to read it, your problem not mine.
And I proved the graph is a lie in my first statement, Israel did not violate A SINGLE CEASEFIRE..its the responsibility of the accusing side to provide evidence for the accusation, not to repeat the accusation without evidence.

Nope, I believe this document is a lie, although I'll relate to that as true, "economic warfare" against the Islamist group Hamas. in other terms it means not allowing Hamas to arm themselves, fighting a terrorist organization with economic warfare is beyond legitimate but also moral don't you think? instead of letting them get those weapons that only intend to hurt people, simply prevent them from having them in the first place.

Now that's convenient! Simply choosing not to believe evidence, when you have nothing that would lead you to that conclusion.

And economic warfare punishes everyone in Gaza. That is collective punishment. Collective punishment is a war crime. Therefore, the blockade is illegal, immoral and a crime against humanity.

I related to that as true although I have all the right to question its authenticity.
An "economic warfare" does punish entire Gaza, but its not aimed to do so, and it does hurt the terrorists much more than it hurts the civilians, Israel allow all type of import/export under Israeli authority to prevent weapons from reaching the hands of terrorists, that's how you run an "economic warfare" against the terrorists while minimizing the damage to the rest of the population as much as possible, and yes, this is necessary, and it is not a war crime, its fully legal and legitimate reaction, and this is the moral deed for the sake of humanity.

" Israel allow all type of import/export under Israeli authority to prevent weapons from reaching the hands of terrorists,"

That is complete balderdash, basically a lie. Fishermen can't even fish outside of 3 nautical mile limit and Israel prevents most goods from entering Gaza, by any route.

"a Fact-Finding Mission for the UN Human Rights Council chaired by a former judge of the International Criminal Court, as well as a panel of five independent U.N. rights experts concluded that the blockade constituted collective punishment of the population of Gaza and was therefore unlawful."

Blockade of the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

This is the part where you mislead probably out of stupidity, you did NOT disproved my post, because it doesn't conjugate with the fact all import and export can be made under Israeli authority.

 

[montelatici]

A Palestinian teen is murdered on video and all you fuckers say is that the film was faked. It was Pallywood. When innocent Palestinian's are murdered by the IDF, your reactions are not outrage, its contempt and disdain towards those who went public about the incident.

And then the "teen" gets up and walks away.

Yep the morons always seem to forget about the video recording that shows this, and the one that shows the practise run

Still claiming the Hasbara produced videos are Palestinian. Give it up.

 

[docmauser1]

Fact-Finding Mission for the UN Human Rights Council ...

Reads suspiciosly like making stuff up, indeed.

 

[Vigilante]

 

[Billo_Really]

Since you said these are just a tip of the iceberg I'm gonna have to ask you again to quote me, since my thread "Under the Hamas Dictatorship" is the only one suggested I'm gonna have to ask you again, is this how I'm demonizing the Palestinians?

Hamas won a fair and democratic election, that's not a dictatorship. Deliberately telling lies about someone, is demonizing them.

And about the Hamas, I filled the thread with raw evidence to base my claim.
You can feel free to post about any of these evidence to disprove my based claim that Hamas is a dictatorship.

I haven't seen your evidence and I don't know where its posted.

You can also note to the separation I made between Hamas and the Palestinians, also in the a statement I made in this thread..

Oh really? Where's the separation when you made this statement?

Miracle in Ashkelon: Family survives rocket fire

Indeed Israel really need to continue the operation in Gaza, until the southerns could live in peace.
Those savage animals in Gaza and their advocates should be ashamed of themselves.

Where's the separation there?

I'm not against violence when necessary, but I'm against violence when there are peaceful alternatives.
The shots aimed NOT to the fishermen/ACTIVISTS but to WARN THEM NOT T GET ANY CLOSER.
If they cannot understand the line drew by Israel, that NOBODY CAN PASS THE BLOCKADE AT ALL - There is not other alternative but to warn them Israel is very serious about it.
They failed to understand the calls of the IDF to go back, several times, but the did understand the warning shots..
Is this called "shooting AT PEOPLE fishing"? NO, Its called DEMONIZING IDF by claiming IDF DOES THAT, WHEN ITS OBVIOUS IN YOUR VIDEO THEY DID NOT.

First off, what evidence do you have that indicates they were "activists", or they were trying to run the blockade, or trying to get closer to the IDF gunboat? Where's the evidence that would validate those assumptions as being credible?

Secondly, they were in Gazan territorial waters, where it is illegal for IDF gunboats to be even present in that area.

Thirdly, THEY WERE FISHING!

Who the fuck shoots at people fishing?

Feel free to quote me or apologize for that stupid statement Billo.

I think I'll quote you....

Hamas Charter
Sadly many people consider them a legitimate government.

Ready for round who-knows-what?
The best cure for terrorist is a bullet, or a missile, or poison, or any other fatal alternatives

Cheers and gunfire echo through Gaza as Hamas Victory announced!!
Since we already discuss that for quite a while, I think you should be happy TERRORISTS died, the same kind of people that use violence all over the world to promote their cause, religiously, or politically.
Indeed Israel reported about a very accurate number, as you know Israel has great surveillance, not only the record the war crimes against humanity the terrorists committed, but also for a military purposes such as spotting armed hostiles, the bigger number of terrorists reported by Israel is unknown, but it probably mean explode to pieces.

Trouble in Paradise
Hamas and Fatah are TWO of our problems, double headed snake is the best way I can desribe it as they connect to the Palestinians but leading them in somewhat different directions..

Now Over 1000 Dead Palestinians
Even with million dead Palestinians they'll scream victory, its an ancient Shi'ia war ideology influenced by Jihad.

No apology for you, this time.

Of course I do, and I posted the evidence in my post, you didn't bother to read it, your problem not mine.
And I proved the graph is a lie in my first statement, Israel did not violate A SINGLE CEASEFIRE..its the responsibility of the accusing side to provide evidence for the accusation, not to repeat the accusation without evidence.

Accept in this case, you're the accusing side! I made the initial claim and posted my evidence (the graph). Once I've done that, the burden of proof shifts to the "objector", to provide evidence that proves his objection has merit and is not frivolous. Merely saying its a lie, is not proof. You need to pony up a corroborative citation to prove your objection valid.

I related to that as true although I have all the right to question its authenticity.

You have to have a "reason" to question its authenticity, not just because you feel like it.

An "economic warfare" does punish entire Gaza, but its not aimed to do so, and it does hurt the terrorists much more than it hurts the civilians, Israel allow all type of import/export under Israeli authority to prevent weapons from reaching the hands of terrorists, that's how you run an "economic warfare" against the terrorists while minimizing the damage to the rest of the population as much as possible, and yes, this is necessary, and it is not a war crime, its fully legal and legitimate reaction, and this is the moral deed for the sake of humanity.

It doesn't matter what you are "aiming" to do, punishing people who have committed no crime, is wrong. And according to IHL, it's a war crime.

 

[theliq]

Peace with Israelis - Possible

Peace with Zionists - IMPOSSIBLE.

Bullshit, peace with Muslim extremists is impossible.

Bullshit, peace with Jewish extremists is impossible.

Explain why the peace with Egypt and Jordan has lasted so long, and why the deal with Lebanon is still in evidence.

Shows that you are skewed and everything is one sided. A question asked on here thousands of times and still no answer............ What have the Palestinians ever done towards a lasting peace ?

Because you CRETIN it was only Palestinian Land STOLEN with VIOLENCE..............What has Israel done for a lasting Peace.......I'll tell you Wanker...the last time that there was a real opportunity for a lasting Peace......The Jews ASSINATED their own Prime Minister Mr Rabin.

I have told you this on many occasions but still you persist with your gormless "What have the Palestinians done" ad-nausium.....Leave this place you UPSURPER

 

[theliq]

Really Vig, fancy you having to work 3 jobs to make a decent living........what about family time..steve

 

[Daniyel]

Since you said these are just a tip of the iceberg I'm gonna have to ask you again to quote me, since my thread "Under the Hamas Dictatorship" is the only one suggested I'm gonna have to ask you again, is this how I'm demonizing the Palestinians?

Hamas won a fair and democratic election, that's not a dictatorship. Deliberately telling lies about someone, is demonizing them.

Sadam Hussien also won "democratic" elections, doesn't change the fact he was a dictator, Hamas on this case did not allow elections for nearly 4-6 years, I believe its a dictatorship.

And about the Hamas, I filled the thread with raw evidence to base my claim.
You can feel free to post about any of these evidence to disprove my based claim that Hamas is a dictatorship.

I haven't seen your evidence and I don't know where its posted.

The evidence provided discuss about why people believe Hamas is the legitimate government, and not a terrorist organization which is not possible to be international government [by international law] and by the stacking evidence of the crimes Hamas is committing against the freedom and liberty of Palestinians and Israelis at once.
As I said, go to the thread and discuss the evidence there, I'm not gonna derail this fairly long enough debate to another subjects, once you got a way to disprove my claim - good for you, but its not demonizing the Palestinians, period.

You can also note to the separation I made between Hamas and the Palestinians, also in the a statement I made in this thread..

Oh really? Where's the separation when you made this statement?

Miracle in Ashkelon: Family survives rocket fire

Indeed Israel really need to continue the operation in Gaza, until the southerns could live in peace.
Those savage animals in Gaza and their advocates should be ashamed of themselves.

Where's the separation there?

The terrorist organizations maybe? or do you try so hard to believe I mean the entire Palestinians? haven't you call Israel [Including the leftish you admire] Nazis? don't hang on small syntax word game Billo, this is ridiculous.

I'm not against violence when necessary, but I'm against violence when there are peaceful alternatives.
The shots aimed NOT to the fishermen/ACTIVISTS but to WARN THEM NOT T GET ANY CLOSER.
If they cannot understand the line drew by Israel, that NOBODY CAN PASS THE BLOCKADE AT ALL - There is not other alternative but to warn them Israel is very serious about it.
They failed to understand the calls of the IDF to go back, several times, but the did understand the warning shots..
Is this called "shooting AT PEOPLE fishing"? NO, Its called DEMONIZING IDF by claiming IDF DOES THAT, WHEN ITS OBVIOUS IN YOUR VIDEO THEY DID NOT.

First off, what evidence do you have that indicates they were "activists", or they were trying to run the blockade, or trying to get closer to the IDF gunboat? Where's the evidence that would validate those assumptions as being credible?

The fact they bothered carrying a camera and yelling propaganda on a fishing boat, fair enough?

Secondly, they were in Gazan territorial waters, where it is illegal for IDF gunboats to be even present in that area.

Israel placed the blockade, like it or not, its the way it is, and where exactly does the 'illegal' part comes in to play with the IDF gunboat? what makes you think this was inside a territorial water of Gaza? why the IDF gunboat is forbidden to fish with guns? this is how stupid the accusation is.

Thirdly, THEY WERE FISHING!

Who the fuck shoots at people fishing?

Many pro-Palestinians were attempting to make a very provocative demonstrations, I'll list some of them.
1.Bicycle demonstrations - breaking Israeli territory illegally and disobeying the law.
2.Clashing with the police and trying to convince them otherwise - seriously - and by the way breaking the law.
3.Marathon rally - with no cooperation with the police risking human lives.
4.Avatar protest, but fury over World War Z. - funny and strange at once.
5.Trash throwing protest / Israel's flag burning - of course it is going to draw attention from Israel!
6.Underwater protest.
7.Violent protests - surly get a great attention from the Israelis.
8.And my favorite one - throwing dead animals and basically everything nearby on the police and IDF
What do you expect? Activists joining every single thing the Palestinians are trying to do to protest and document together.
.So when the IDF says its forbidden to pass the distance made, they should've listen because of the international law, the blockade is legitimate, and the IDF didn't shoot them, final proof - nobody was hurt.

Feel free to quote me or apologize for that stupid statement Billo.

I think I'll quote you....

Hamas Charter
Sadly many people consider them a legitimate government. - what's wrong on this one?

Ready for round who-knows-what?
The best cure for terrorist is a bullet, or a missile, or poison, or any other fatal alternatives

Cheers and gunfire echo through Gaza as Hamas Victory announced!!
Since we already discuss that for quite a while, I think you should be happy TERRORISTS died, the same kind of people that use violence all over the world to promote their cause, religiously, or politically.
Indeed Israel reported about a very accurate number, as you know Israel has great surveillance, not only the record the war crimes against humanity the terrorists committed, but also for a military purposes such as spotting armed hostiles, the bigger number of terrorists reported by Israel is unknown, but it probably mean explode to pieces.

Trouble in Paradise
Hamas and Fatah are TWO of our problems, double headed snake is the best way I can desribe it as they connect to the Palestinians but leading them in somewhat different directions..

Now Over 1000 Dead Palestinians
Even with million dead Palestinians they'll - HAMAS/(Palestinians leadership in Gaza) scream victory, its an ancient Shi'ia war ideology influenced by Jihad.

No apology for you, this time.

I simply highlighted the important parts you missed, or attempted to take out of context.

Of course I do, and I posted the evidence in my post, you didn't bother to read it, your problem not mine.
And I proved the graph is a lie in my first statement, Israel did not violate A SINGLE CEASEFIRE..its the responsibility of the accusing side to provide evidence for the accusation, not to repeat the accusation without evidence.

Accept in this case, you're the accusing side! I made the initial claim and posted my evidence (the graph). Once I've done that, the burden of proof shifts to the "objector", to provide evidence that proves his objection has merit and is not frivolous. Merely saying its a lie, is not proof. You need to pony up a corroborative citation to prove your objection valid.

The graph is not an evidence as it claim that Israel violated ceasefires, similar to making a list of accusations, since this one is the same as your initial accusation it simply repeat the accusation, but not providing an evidence that Israel indeed violated these ceasefires listed on the graph, or back your initial accusation.

I related to that as true although I have all the right to question its authenticity.

You have to have a "reason" to question its authenticity, not just because you feel like it.

"A Great detective is never work with intonation" - my reasons are obvious, it is simply wrote by someone, and at least provided by someone with negative opinion regard me, which is why I consider it suspicious.

An "economic warfare" does punish entire Gaza, but its not aimed to do so, and it does hurt the terrorists much more than it hurts the civilians, Israel allow all type of import/export under Israeli authority to prevent weapons from reaching the hands of terrorists, that's how you run an "economic warfare" against the terrorists while minimizing the damage to the rest of the population as much as possible, and yes, this is necessary, and it is not a war crime, its fully legal and legitimate reaction, and this is the moral deed for the sake of humanity.

It doesn't matter what you are "aiming" to do, punishing people who have committed no crime, is wrong. And according to IHL, it's a war crime.

Its not a war crime, period.
Punishing entire Israel with rockets and terrorist attacks is a war crime, and since I explained WHEN the blockade placed, it is clear that it was taken as a counter-step to the rockets, similar to self defense.
Killing someone is illegal, unless you have no other option but to kill him instead when life of innocent or yours are at risk, and it is not only the moral and right thing to do bound by law, but I see it as personal duty.

In the end, the evidence you provided are barely enough to explain why Israel are just like the Nazis, I expected you to make a huge list of evidence but for some reason I see this debate become smaller in each and every post.

 

[docmauser1]

Still claiming the Hasbara produced videos are Palestinian. Give it up.

And then the "teen" got up and walked away. Don't them in palliwood follow the rules to preface the footage with a "Noone Was Hurt In The Filming Of This Agitprop" disclaimer?

 

[docmauser1]

Because you CRETIN it was only Palestinian Land STOLEN with VIOLENCE....

How so, if even our honorable master of contortions P F Tinmore of blessed fame couldn't come up with a name of that shakh, sheikh, sultan, pasha, emir, mullah, president, prime-minister of that "palestine", which allegedly got stolen?