Do Israelis Even Want To Win?????

[rtwngAvngr]

Not really. Not a belief-system that would appeal to me, but there is absolutely nothing in the Koran that supports the concept of suicide bombers. And, in fact, suicide is considered an affront to Islam. It's the men who preach fundamentalist, hate-filled concepts who distort religion.



Based upon your opinion of what constitutes reasonable.....

Well, at least you give opposing views serious consideration.

You're absolutely wrong. You need to get educated regarding islam. I'm not going to do it here. Martyrdom is not suicide, therefore, is actually encouraged.

 

[jillian]

You're absolutely wrong. You need to get educated regarding islam. I'm not going to do it here. Martyrdom is not suicide, therefore, is actually encouraged.

And you have greater education regarding Islam and terrorism than the Jaffe Center and the Israelis for whom this issue has been a long-term affair?

It is considered honorable to die in the defense of Islam, under the Koran, but not by one's own hand. It is the martyrdom of dying in religious battle, or jihad, which is considered honorable. The fundamentalists have bastardized that belief and perverted it into suicide bombings.

I've had a great deal of education as regards the middle east and Islam, as well as on the issue of jihad, which is what you are talking about. But thanks.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I've had a great deal of education as regards the middle east and Islam, as well as on the issue of jihad, which is what you are talking about. But thanks.

Obviously you haven't, because you're quite ignorant on the matter.

 

[jillian]

Obviously you haven't, because you're quite ignorant on the matter.

Loverly...insults....the last refuge of someone who has no response.

Cheers.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Loverly...insults....the last refuge of someone who has no response.

Cheers.

No. You really are ignorant of the religion of islam. Obviously. Ignorance is a quality you've demonstrated regarding jihad.

 

[jillian]

No. You really are ignorant of the religion of islam. Obviously. Ignorance is a quality you've demonstrated regarding jihad.

And you say that with what expertise or experience? Or what studies you've made as to the Koran and what it says?

Just wondering since you've stereotyped an entire people. It's important to distinguish between the bad guys, the good guys and the bystanders. Particularly when their book doesn't say what you represent. Now mind you, it isn't my cup of tea as a religion because it IS far too concerned with subjugating others to their belief system....but it also isn't what you say.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

And you say that with what expertise or experience? Or what studies you've made as to the Koran and what it says?

Just wondering since you've stereotyped an entire people. It's important to distinguish between the bad guys, the good guys and the bystanders. Particularly when their book doesn't say what you represent. Now mind you, it isn't my cup of tea as a religion because it IS far too concerned with subjugating others to their belief system....but it also isn't what you say.

http://www.a-voice.org/discern/islam.htm#jihad

THE KORAN ON JIHAD

"5.33" : The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle
and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be
murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on
opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for
them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous
chastisement,

"8.38" : Say to those who disbelieve, if they desist, that which is past
shall be forgiven to them; and if they return, then what happened to the
ancients has already passed.

"8.39" : And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion
should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what
they do.

"9.5" : So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters
wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in
wait for them in every ambush,then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay
the poor-rate, leave their way free to them;surely Allah is Forgiving,
Merciful.

"9.29" : Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor
do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the
religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay
the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of
subjection.

"9.30" : And the Jews say: ΠUzairΠis the son of Allah; and the Christians
say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths;
they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy
them; how they are turned away!

"9.36" : Surely the number of months with Allah is twelve months in Allah's
ordinance since the day when He created the heavens and the earth, of these
four being sacred; that is the right reckoning; therefore be not unjust to
yourselves regarding them, and fight the polytheistsΠall together as they
fight you all together; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against
evil).

"9.73" : O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites
and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the
destination.

"9.123" : O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to
you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who
guard (against evil).

 

[jillian]

http://www.a-voice.org/discern/islam.htm#jihad

Yes. The koran provides the basis for jihad. We already agree on that. It gives no approval for suicide, however, though the words you posted have been distorted by the fundamentalist imams.... Fundies do that sort of thing. It's kind of a by-product of thinking one has the only door to paradise.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Yes. The koran provides the basis for jihad. We already agree on that. It gives no approval for suicide, however, though the words you posted have been distorted by the fundamentalist imams.... Fundies do that sort of thing. It's kind of a by-product of thinking one has the only door to paradise.

Dying in the process of killing infidels, homicide bombing, is considered martryrdom. Just ask hamas.

You're a fundamentalist multiculturalist. No amount of fact or proof will convince you to see Islam for what it is: A death cult.

 

[jillian]

Dying in the process of killing infidels, homicide bombing, is considered martryrdom. Just ask hamas.

Hamas is a bunch of terrorist psychos. Thanks but no thanks. They aren't the typical muslim or Hamas or something similar would be running all Islamic countries.

You're a fundamentalist multiculturalist. No amount of fact or proof will convince you to see Islam for what it is: A death cult.

That's silliness, on both counts. I don't subscribe much to fundamentalism of any type....it's a dangerous mindset, in general.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Hamas is a bunch of terrorist psychos. Thanks but no thanks. They aren't the typical muslim or Hamas or something similar would be running all Islamic countries.



That's silliness, on both counts. I don't subscribe much to fundamentalism of any type....it's a dangerous mindset, in general.

Your fine point of muslim theology which allows you to conclude that homicide bombing is not backed by Islam is being overlooked by the islamists themselves. It's considered martrydom.

Most Islamic countries ARE run by something similar to hamas.

You're a fundamentalist multiculturalist. You cannot make rational conclusions if they go against your strange notion that all cultures are equal.

 

[jillian]

Your fine point of muslim theology which allows you to conclude that homicide bombing is not backed by Islam is being overlooked by the islamists themselves. It's considered martrydom.

Funny....Colin Powelll said what I did about Islam...guess he doesn't know what he's talking about either, eh?

The secretary described Pakistan as an Islamic state, but he said that "when Islam becomes fundamentalism to the point that one believes it is acceptable to take the life of innocent people or to participate in terrorist actions, this is not just a deviant interpretation of Islam, it goes against the basic tenets of Islam."

http://usinfo.state.gov/sa/Archive/2004/Mar/18-95563.html

Note...that's from the department of state website.

Most Islamic countries ARE run by something similar to hamas.

Really? Saudi Arabia and the UAE are run by Hamas-like entities? You sure about that?

You're a fundamentalist multiculturalist. You cannot make rational conclusions if they go against your strange notion that all cultures are equal.

Interesting leap of mind-reading there. Off base, but interesting. I just think people should be judged on their individual actions, not lumped into groups.

You think all Christians should be judged based on Pat Robertson's comments? Or all Jews judged on the actions of the JDL? Or all Germans judged on the acts of the nazis?

I don't....

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Funny....Colin Powelll said what I did about Islam...guess he doesn't know what he's talking about either, eh?

The secretary described Pakistan as an Islamic state, but he said that "when Islam becomes fundamentalism to the point that one believes it is acceptable to take the life of innocent people or to participate in terrorist actions, this is not just a deviant interpretation of Islam, it goes against the basic tenets of Islam."

http://usinfo.state.gov/sa/Archive/2004/Mar/18-95563.html

Note...that's from the department of state website.



Really? Saudi Arabia and the UAE are run by Hamas-like entities? You sure about that?



Interesting leap of mind-reading there. Off base, but interesting. I just think people should be judged on their individual actions, not lumped into groups.

You think all Christians should be judged based on Pat Robertson's comments? Or all Jews judged on the actions of the JDL? Or all Germans judged on the acts of the nazis?

I don't....

They're just being politically correct. The violent spread of islam is a KEY FACET of islam.

Judging religions according to their key text is not in the same category as judging a group from individuals. Learn to think properly.

 

[jillian]

They're just being politically correct. The violent spread of islam is a KEY FACET of islam.

Judging religions according to their key text is not in the same category as judging a group from individuals. Learn to think properly.

Thought it was just a function of fairness to judge people on their individual merit. Didn't know it was about being PC. :scratch:

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Thought it was just a function of fairness to judge people on their individual merit. Didn't know it was about being PC. :scratch:

Yes. But you judge religions on their text and what their imams say.

 

[Annie]

While not every Muslim may be extremist, think there is something to be said about using contemporary examples and common sense:

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/973

Islam and the Left’s Miscalculation
From the desk of The Brussels Journal on Thu, 2006-04-13 11:18

A quote from Srdja Trifkovic in an interview on The Right Balance, 7 April 2006

The Left sees Islam as a de facto ally – as Marxists would say, an “objective ally” – in the destruction of the vestiges of the traditional society based upon Christianity and its moral code, and traditional cultural patterns. So what they are doing is using Islam as the battering ram and as a would-be fellow-traveler, in their grand anti-Christian, Christophobic design. They hope that once they create their brave, new multiculturalist Utopia, Islam can be tamed, that soft porn and state education will convert the Muslims’ offspring to the general multiculturalist melange.

We know they’re wrong because we know that second and third-generation Muslim immigrants in Western Europe, particularly in France and Britain, are far more radical and far more Islamic-minded than their parents and grandparents. The explanation is very simple: the tepid, non-descript multiculturalist pap that is being offered by the dominant elites cannot inspire these young men and women. They need something that gives meaning to their lives, and so they fall back upon the religion of their forefathers—and once they do that, they cannot do otherwise but turn against the multiculturalist host-society. So the Leftists are making a colossal miscalculation. Far from being the clients of their future global welfare state, the Muslims—in the Western world in particular—will be the agents of revolutionary change not only against the remnants of Christianity today, but also against the secularist, multicultural Utopia of tomorrow.

[...] What is known as Islam’s “golden age” happened largely in spite of Islam, rather than thanks to it. Connecting the brief blossoming of arts and sciences in Baghdad and Cordoba with the “benevolent” influence of Islam is the same as saying that the high level of scholarship on Pushkin or Tolstoy in Moscow in the 1950s was the result of Stalinism and dialectical materialism, or that the Berlin Philharmonic under Furtwaengler was as good as it was in the late 1930s thanks to Nazism. But the true causes of squalor and corruption in the Muslim world are indeed moral and cultural, rather than economic. After that brief period of flowering its had very little to offer to the world, either in the sphere of ideas or in the sphere of material production—even though it had that unique geographic position at the crossroads of civilizations [...]

The problem remains insoluble to this day. The Christian world’s discipline, cohesion, ingenuity and prosperity are rooted in certain aspects of the Western psyche that cannot be easily transplanted. It has a lot to do with the notion of delayed gratification as opposed to instant gratification and sensuality that is the hallmark of the Muslim world.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

using Islam as the battering ram and as a would-be fellow-traveler

This is a masonic reference.

 

[dilloduck]

This is a masonic reference.

Masons use battering rams ?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Masons use battering rams ?

durr.

 

[dilloduck]

durr.

durr ?? Are you expecting people to know what you're talking about?