Do Dems want to tax the rich into oblivion?

Do Dems want to Tax the rich into Oblivion?

  • yes.... Dems want to destroy the wealthy.

    Votes: 10 40.0%
  • no... they just want to boost the middle class a little.

    Votes: 15 60.0%

  • Total voters
    25
So... in your eyes... it's OK that a Majority of our citizens can barely survive? BTW... it's not charity when People are Contributing to society.

Welfare?... you may or may not have a point...You have to remember... The Developmentally Disabled use welfare and cannot work....The mentally Ill....the Horribly physically handicapped.... To me, they need those services, as do normal people on a temporary basis. That's different... I believe in welfare reform in regards to normal people who have fallen on rough times and it most certainly shouldn't be a permanent way of life.

It most certainly IS charity...

Those who cannot take care of themselves because they are mentally deficient etc, and have no family, become what?? WARDS OF THE STATE.... without the freedoms etc that normal citizens have... a ward of the state is different than someone who won't or can't take care of themselves because of a lack of effort, bad decisions, etc... those are results of the personal freedoms we have... the freedom to fail that goes hand in hand with the freedom to succeed...

Now... I am not saying that those down on their 'luck' should be ignored.... I FULLY support people giving as much as they want to charities, support organizations, etc... but that is a voluntary action on the individual... not a job of government to FORCE such actions


I believe in welfare reform too... reforming it to the extent to make it non-existent

We are a country of citizens...Just because you do not believe in Community doesn't mean that's the way our country should go. That's why we have a vote. So.. if you want to make your own country with your own rules... find one where they will welcome you with open arms to be their benevolent dictator.

No... to prevent your commune thinking, we have a constitution, that prevents tyranny of the masses, which is EXACTLY what you promote with your "why we have a vote" bullshit
 
That is completely false. Who wouldn't want to be fabulously wealthy? The disdain you see coming from the left is because of the way some of those fabulously wealthy went about getting their money. Conservatives just turn a blind eye and then boo-hoo when the left tries to do something about it.

As long as it is not from drug smuggling or some other crime, it is of no concern to you or anyone else 'how' they got their money

And it certainly is not up to you or the government to decide that some of theirs should be redistributed either directly or indirectly

Yep... fuck the consumer, fuck the worker, fuck everyone except for them... after all.. THEY DESERVE it... no one else does.. just them. So it's none of our business if they lobbied and got corporate welfare... it's none of our business if they got it by ripping consumers off and lowballing their employees... it's their money.

If it is thru illegal means, it is a concern... if it is not thru illegal means, it is none of your concern... and if you wish to make lobbying or donating against the law, you are free to go thru the process to make it so... and then if you saw your targeted 'rich' getting gains because of political deals resulting from these actions, you have every right to hate them and go after them

As for lowballing... you are forced to take a 'lowball' offer?? You don't have a choice to seek employment somewhere else? You don't have the freedom to train to advance your skills? You don't have the freedom to take a whole new career path??
 
It most certainly IS charity...

Those who cannot take care of themselves because they are mentally deficient etc, and have no family, become what?? WARDS OF THE STATE.... without the freedoms etc that normal citizens have... a ward of the state is different than someone who won't or can't take care of themselves because of a lack of effort, bad decisions, etc... those are results of the personal freedoms we have... the freedom to fail that goes hand in hand with the freedom to succeed...

Now... I am not saying that those down on their 'luck' should be ignored.... I FULLY support people giving as much as they want to charities, support organizations, etc... but that is a voluntary action on the individual... not a job of government to FORCE such actions


I believe in welfare reform too... reforming it to the extent to make it non-existent

We are a country of citizens...Just because you do not believe in Community doesn't mean that's the way our country should go. That's why we have a vote. So.. if you want to make your own country with your own rules... find one where they will welcome you with open arms to be their benevolent dictator.

No... to prevent your commune thinking, we have a constitution, that prevents tyranny of the masses, which is EXACTLY what you promote with your "why we have a vote" bullshit

yeah... the only problem was that back then... they never thought that Corporatism could be a tyranny... because Corporations weren't really in existence back then... other than the East India Trading Company... which they were very much against.

EDIT: in short... the only tyranny they had a clue about was the tyranny they felt from Britain. We have a new tyranny now... it's Corporate Tyranny.
 
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We are a country of citizens...Just because you do not believe in Community doesn't mean that's the way our country should go. That's why we have a vote. So.. if you want to make your own country with your own rules... find one where they will welcome you with open arms to be their benevolent dictator.

No... to prevent your commune thinking, we have a constitution, that prevents tyranny of the masses, which is EXACTLY what you promote with your "why we have a vote" bullshit

yeah... the only problem was that back then... they never thought that Corporatism could be a tyranny... because Corporations weren't really in existence back then... other than the East India Trading Company... which they were very much against.

But they certainly knew that the masses voting away the rights of others would be tyranny.... and that is what you directly support

As asked before.. what corporation has voted away your rights and freedoms??
 
But what good would it do? As far as I'm concerned, The middle and working class need a boost. They need disposable income to keep the economy rolling...that in turn, makes the wealthy more in the way of profits.

As far as taxation is concerned... with the middle and working class struggling so much... it's unfair to put the burden of the debt and deficit on their shoulders. Yes.. I know... families of the income range of $30k and under likely do not pay Federal income tax at all... but these are the people who are most affected by the high cost of living. Plus... they do pay every other tax that everyone else does.

They also pay much higher tax rates at the state level than the wealthy. In many states they pay as much as four times more as a percentage of income in comparison to the highest income earners. You never hear the right complaining about how little they pay at the state level, only how much they pay at the federal level.

I have an idea. Why don't we make everyone pay a minimum of ten percent at the federal level, and then reduce what lower income earners pay at the state level and increase what the highest income earners pay at the state level. Then the right could stop their bitching about people not paying any federal income taxes. Of course the right would scream like little pigs at having to pay more at the state level.
 
As long as it is not from drug smuggling or some other crime, it is of no concern to you or anyone else 'how' they got their money

And it certainly is not up to you or the government to decide that some of theirs should be redistributed either directly or indirectly

Yep... fuck the consumer, fuck the worker, fuck everyone except for them... after all.. THEY DESERVE it... no one else does.. just them. So it's none of our business if they lobbied and got corporate welfare... it's none of our business if they got it by ripping consumers off and lowballing their employees... it's their money.

If it is thru illegal means, it is a concern... if it is not thru illegal means, it is none of your concern... and if you wish to make lobbying or donating against the law, you are free to go thru the process to make it so... and then if you saw your targeted 'rich' getting gains because of political deals resulting from these actions, you have every right to hate them and go after them

As for lowballing... you are forced to take a 'lowball' offer?? You don't have a choice to seek employment somewhere else? You don't have the freedom to train to advance your skills? You don't have the freedom to take a whole new career path??

Well... when there aren't real options out there.. yeah.. people are forced to feed their families on lowball wages. The good paying jobs went to slave labor countries and left hard working Americans holding the bag... most of which have families to raise and cannot afford to go back to school... neither financially nor do they have the time to do so.. because they are too busy working to keep a roof over their heads and keep their kids fed.

I do wish to make lobbying against the law and I've signed petitions to make it so.. I've contacted my lawmakers to ask their support to make it so.I'd be willing to bet that Buying Politicians costs this country more in one year in bullshit giveaways and favorable legislation than your hated welfare does in five. of course it's virtually unprovable, because those giveaways and legislation are written into everything that goes through Congress as Pork Barrel.
 
If the left is successful in divesting the rich of their wealth and shutting down the engines generating that wealth, how does the left propose to make the rich continue to generate the wealth the left wants to redistribute?
 
No... to prevent your commune thinking, we have a constitution, that prevents tyranny of the masses, which is EXACTLY what you promote with your "why we have a vote" bullshit

yeah... the only problem was that back then... they never thought that Corporatism could be a tyranny... because Corporations weren't really in existence back then... other than the East India Trading Company... which they were very much against.

But they certainly knew that the masses voting away the rights of others would be tyranny.... and that is what you directly support

As asked before.. what corporation has voted away your rights and freedoms??

Voted away? Gimme a break... Corporations don't vote... they aren't people. They don't vote away rights and freedoms. They just take away people's economic freedoms... at least they do now...as they did in the robber baron days. They have too much power and too much control.
 
If the left is successful in divesting the rich of their wealth and shutting down the engines generating that wealth, how does the left propose to make the rich continue to generate the wealth the left wants to redistribute?

So... you do believe that the left wants to make the rich no longer rich and have everyone make the exact same amount? It certainly seems that way from your post.
 
Yep... fuck the consumer, fuck the worker, fuck everyone except for them... after all.. THEY DESERVE it... no one else does.. just them. So it's none of our business if they lobbied and got corporate welfare... it's none of our business if they got it by ripping consumers off and lowballing their employees... it's their money.

If it is thru illegal means, it is a concern... if it is not thru illegal means, it is none of your concern... and if you wish to make lobbying or donating against the law, you are free to go thru the process to make it so... and then if you saw your targeted 'rich' getting gains because of political deals resulting from these actions, you have every right to hate them and go after them

As for lowballing... you are forced to take a 'lowball' offer?? You don't have a choice to seek employment somewhere else? You don't have the freedom to train to advance your skills? You don't have the freedom to take a whole new career path??

Well... when there aren't real options out there.. yeah.. people are forced to feed their families on lowball wages. The good paying jobs went to slave labor countries and left hard working Americans holding the bag... most of which have families to raise and cannot afford to go back to school... neither financially nor do they have the time to do so.. because they are too busy working to keep a roof over their heads and keep their kids fed.

I do wish to make lobbying against the law and I've signed petitions to make it so.. I've contacted my lawmakers to ask their support to make it so.I'd be willing to bet that Buying Politicians costs this country more in one year in bullshit giveaways and favorable legislation than your hated welfare does in five. of course it's virtually unprovable, because those giveaways and legislation are written into everything that goes through Congress as Pork Barrel.

You are not guaranteed, nor should you be guaranteed some subjective comfortable wage.... if you need to work 2 or 3 jobs to take care of your personal responsibilities, so be it... that goes right in to the freedom to fail that goes hand in hand with the freedom to succeed...

You are not forced to take 'lowball wages'... you choose to accept or decline the wages offered... if you don't want 'em or if they offend you, all you have to say is no... and you can find whatever way to support yourself or your family that you want


I will not argue for or against making lobbying illegal... I am on the fence about it myself... but I can say if it were against the law, I would fully expect compliance and I would not have sympathy for those caught breaking the law
 
But what good would it do? As far as I'm concerned, The middle and working class need a boost. They need disposable income to keep the economy rolling...that in turn, makes the wealthy more in the way of profits.

As far as taxation is concerned... with the middle and working class struggling so much... it's unfair to put the burden of the debt and deficit on their shoulders. Yes.. I know... families of the income range of $30k and under likely do not pay Federal income tax at all... but these are the people who are most affected by the high cost of living. Plus... they do pay every other tax that everyone else does.

They also pay much higher tax rates at the state level than the wealthy. In many states they pay as much as four times more as a percentage of income in comparison to the highest income earners. You never hear the right complaining about how little they pay at the state level, only how much they pay at the federal level.

I have an idea. Why don't we make everyone pay a minimum of ten percent at the federal level, and then reduce what lower income earners pay at the state level and increase what the highest income earners pay at the state level. Then the right could stop their bitching about people not paying any federal income taxes. Of course the right would scream like little pigs at having to pay more at the state level.
STRAWMAN ALERT. There are 50 states so your blanket is not covering the end of the bed.
 
yeah... the only problem was that back then... they never thought that Corporatism could be a tyranny... because Corporations weren't really in existence back then... other than the East India Trading Company... which they were very much against.

But they certainly knew that the masses voting away the rights of others would be tyranny.... and that is what you directly support

As asked before.. what corporation has voted away your rights and freedoms??

Voted away? Gimme a break... Corporations don't vote... they aren't people. They don't vote away rights and freedoms. They just take away people's economic freedoms... at least they do now...as they did in the robber baron days. They have too much power and too much control.

No company or corporation has taken away any freedom of your or anyone else today... that is a load of hogwash... please show any specific example where your guaranteed rights or freedoms have been taken away by a corporation
 
If it is thru illegal means, it is a concern... if it is not thru illegal means, it is none of your concern... and if you wish to make lobbying or donating against the law, you are free to go thru the process to make it so... and then if you saw your targeted 'rich' getting gains because of political deals resulting from these actions, you have every right to hate them and go after them

As for lowballing... you are forced to take a 'lowball' offer?? You don't have a choice to seek employment somewhere else? You don't have the freedom to train to advance your skills? You don't have the freedom to take a whole new career path??

Well... when there aren't real options out there.. yeah.. people are forced to feed their families on lowball wages. The good paying jobs went to slave labor countries and left hard working Americans holding the bag... most of which have families to raise and cannot afford to go back to school... neither financially nor do they have the time to do so.. because they are too busy working to keep a roof over their heads and keep their kids fed.

I do wish to make lobbying against the law and I've signed petitions to make it so.. I've contacted my lawmakers to ask their support to make it so.I'd be willing to bet that Buying Politicians costs this country more in one year in bullshit giveaways and favorable legislation than your hated welfare does in five. of course it's virtually unprovable, because those giveaways and legislation are written into everything that goes through Congress as Pork Barrel.

You are not guaranteed, nor should you be guaranteed some subjective comfortable wage.... if you need to work 2 or 3 jobs to take care of your personal responsibilities, so be it... that goes right in to the freedom to fail that goes hand in hand with the freedom to succeed...

You are not forced to take 'lowball wages'... you choose to accept or decline the wages offered... if you don't want 'em or if they offend you, all you have to say is no... and you can find whatever way to support yourself or your family that you want


I will not argue for or against making lobbying illegal... I am on the fence about it myself... but I can say if it were against the law, I would fully expect compliance and I would not have sympathy for those caught breaking the law

So.. while a man and his wife are working their 2-3 jobs and their kids turn to delinquents because of a lack of supervision... I'm sure you'll have sympathy and mercy on that kid and the parents, right? After all... they are a product of their environment.

I am in agreement with you...I wouldn't have sympathy either for those that broke the lobbying law.
 
Well... when there aren't real options out there.. yeah.. people are forced to feed their families on lowball wages. The good paying jobs went to slave labor countries and left hard working Americans holding the bag... most of which have families to raise and cannot afford to go back to school... neither financially nor do they have the time to do so.. because they are too busy working to keep a roof over their heads and keep their kids fed.

I do wish to make lobbying against the law and I've signed petitions to make it so.. I've contacted my lawmakers to ask their support to make it so.I'd be willing to bet that Buying Politicians costs this country more in one year in bullshit giveaways and favorable legislation than your hated welfare does in five. of course it's virtually unprovable, because those giveaways and legislation are written into everything that goes through Congress as Pork Barrel.

You are not guaranteed, nor should you be guaranteed some subjective comfortable wage.... if you need to work 2 or 3 jobs to take care of your personal responsibilities, so be it... that goes right in to the freedom to fail that goes hand in hand with the freedom to succeed...

You are not forced to take 'lowball wages'... you choose to accept or decline the wages offered... if you don't want 'em or if they offend you, all you have to say is no... and you can find whatever way to support yourself or your family that you want


I will not argue for or against making lobbying illegal... I am on the fence about it myself... but I can say if it were against the law, I would fully expect compliance and I would not have sympathy for those caught breaking the law

So.. while a man and his wife are working their 2-3 jobs and their kids turn to delinquents because of a lack of supervision... I'm sure you'll have sympathy and mercy on that kid and the parents, right? After all... they are a product of their environment.

I am in agreement with you...I wouldn't have sympathy either for those that broke the lobbying law.

Personal sympathies are not to be legislated...

Do I support charities and organizations?? Yep.. I donated when our community wanted to have a supervised children's center where kids could go after school while their parents were still at work... and have a safe place to do homework, hang out, etc... where parents could also know that they were not in danger... and I used to volunteer my time when I worked a schedule were I got off at 2PM, as part of the supervisory rotation

Nobody is forcing parents to make parenting decisions that 'make delinquents'... funny, I am close with other parents in my neighborhood and we VOLUNTARILY help each other out of our own free will.... I don't accept bad behavior by my kids if I am working 16 hours instead of 8 because of a work emergency... I follow up on my kids... my parenting does not stop because I have to support my kids in whatever way possible... and when I was laid off in 2001 and I worked bartending to get some money in until I found a job in my career field that I wanted, I did not stop making good parenting decisions with how my kids were cared for, supervised, etc
 
But they certainly knew that the masses voting away the rights of others would be tyranny.... and that is what you directly support

As asked before.. what corporation has voted away your rights and freedoms??

Voted away? Gimme a break... Corporations don't vote... they aren't people. They don't vote away rights and freedoms. They just take away people's economic freedoms... at least they do now...as they did in the robber baron days. They have too much power and too much control.

No company or corporation has taken away any freedom of your or anyone else today... that is a load of hogwash... please show any specific example where your guaranteed rights or freedoms have been taken away by a corporation

Let me ask you Dave... do you think that all of these special breaks and pandering to the wealthy and their corporations, the banking industry, the energy lobby, the Health Care lobby... and allowing them to get away with just about anything is good for our country and it's people?

Do you think this BIG business model that we have today is helping or hurting our economy?
 
You are not guaranteed, nor should you be guaranteed some subjective comfortable wage.... if you need to work 2 or 3 jobs to take care of your personal responsibilities, so be it... that goes right in to the freedom to fail that goes hand in hand with the freedom to succeed...

You are not forced to take 'lowball wages'... you choose to accept or decline the wages offered... if you don't want 'em or if they offend you, all you have to say is no... and you can find whatever way to support yourself or your family that you want


I will not argue for or against making lobbying illegal... I am on the fence about it myself... but I can say if it were against the law, I would fully expect compliance and I would not have sympathy for those caught breaking the law

So.. while a man and his wife are working their 2-3 jobs and their kids turn to delinquents because of a lack of supervision... I'm sure you'll have sympathy and mercy on that kid and the parents, right? After all... they are a product of their environment.

I am in agreement with you...I wouldn't have sympathy either for those that broke the lobbying law.

Personal sympathies are not to be legislated...

Do I support charities and organizations?? Yep.. I donated when our community wanted to have a supervised children's center where kids could go after school while their parents were still at work... and have a safe place to do homework, hang out, etc... where parents could also know that they were not in danger... and I used to volunteer my time when I worked a schedule were I got off at 2PM, as part of the supervisory rotation

Nobody is forcing parents to make parenting decisions that 'make delinquents'... funny, I am close with other parents in my neighborhood and we VOLUNTARILY help each other out of our own free will.... I don't accept bad behavior by my kids if I am working 16 hours instead of 8 because of a work emergency... I follow up on my kids... my parenting does not stop because I have to support my kids in whatever way possible... and when I was laid off in 2001 and I worked bartending to get some money in until I found a job in my career field that I wanted, I did not stop making good parenting decisions with how my kids were cared for, supervised, etc

that's great and I agree... more communities ought to be doing this. But at the same time... a decent wage where both parents can work 40 hours and actually be able to live a fairly comfortable life isn't too much to ask....IMO, of course.

As far as legislating sympathy... I agree somewhat. That's why I am in favor of people actually working for their Welfare benefits. That way, at least taxpayers are getting something in return for their money. BTW, I feel the same way about legislating antipathy. That's why I don't think abortion should be made illegal and Gays ought to be treated the same as heterosexuals.
 
Voted away? Gimme a break... Corporations don't vote... they aren't people. They don't vote away rights and freedoms. They just take away people's economic freedoms... at least they do now...as they did in the robber baron days. They have too much power and too much control.

No company or corporation has taken away any freedom of your or anyone else today... that is a load of hogwash... please show any specific example where your guaranteed rights or freedoms have been taken away by a corporation

Let me ask you Dave... do you think that all of these special breaks and pandering to the wealthy and their corporations, the banking industry, the energy lobby, the Health Care lobby... and allowing them to get away with just about anything is good for our country and it's people?

Do you think this BIG business model that we have today is helping or hurting our economy?

I think no corporation and no citizen should get any 'breaks' above any other

I do not think corporations are hurting the economy... more damage is coming from government trying to 'equalize' or 'make fair' in their class warfare agenda
 
So.. while a man and his wife are working their 2-3 jobs and their kids turn to delinquents because of a lack of supervision... I'm sure you'll have sympathy and mercy on that kid and the parents, right? After all... they are a product of their environment.

I am in agreement with you...I wouldn't have sympathy either for those that broke the lobbying law.

Personal sympathies are not to be legislated...

Do I support charities and organizations?? Yep.. I donated when our community wanted to have a supervised children's center where kids could go after school while their parents were still at work... and have a safe place to do homework, hang out, etc... where parents could also know that they were not in danger... and I used to volunteer my time when I worked a schedule were I got off at 2PM, as part of the supervisory rotation

Nobody is forcing parents to make parenting decisions that 'make delinquents'... funny, I am close with other parents in my neighborhood and we VOLUNTARILY help each other out of our own free will.... I don't accept bad behavior by my kids if I am working 16 hours instead of 8 because of a work emergency... I follow up on my kids... my parenting does not stop because I have to support my kids in whatever way possible... and when I was laid off in 2001 and I worked bartending to get some money in until I found a job in my career field that I wanted, I did not stop making good parenting decisions with how my kids were cared for, supervised, etc

that's great and I agree... more communities ought to be doing this. But at the same time... a decent wage where both parents can work 40 hours and actually be able to live a fairly comfortable life isn't too much to ask....IMO, of course.

As far as legislating sympathy... I agree somewhat. That's why I am in favor of people actually working for their Welfare benefits. That way, at least taxpayers are getting something in return for their money. BTW, I feel the same way about legislating antipathy. That's why I don't think abortion should be made illegal and Gays ought to be treated the same as heterosexuals.

Yes it is too much to ask.. because it infringes on freedom... you don't need to be awarded 'comfortably' when you still remain as a fry cook at age 31 and you made the decision to have kids even though you're making $8 an hour... you are not 'owed' comfort at the expense of someone else.... you owe it to yourself to do what you have to do to support you and your family 'comfortably'
 
But what good would it do? As far as I'm concerned, The middle and working class need a boost. They need disposable income to keep the economy rolling...that in turn, makes the wealthy more in the way of profits.

As far as taxation is concerned... with the middle and working class struggling so much... it's unfair to put the burden of the debt and deficit on their shoulders. Yes.. I know... families of the income range of $30k and under likely do not pay Federal income tax at all... but these are the people who are most affected by the high cost of living. Plus... they do pay every other tax that everyone else does.

They also pay much higher tax rates at the state level than the wealthy. In many states they pay as much as four times more as a percentage of income in comparison to the highest income earners. You never hear the right complaining about how little they pay at the state level, only how much they pay at the federal level.

I have an idea. Why don't we make everyone pay a minimum of ten percent at the federal level, and then reduce what lower income earners pay at the state level and increase what the highest income earners pay at the state level. Then the right could stop their bitching about people not paying any federal income taxes. Of course the right would scream like little pigs at having to pay more at the state level.
STRAWMAN ALERT. There are 50 states so your blanket is not covering the end of the bed.

Actually, it does cover the end of the bed. There is not a single state where the highest income earners pay more than the lowest income earners. There are only a handful where it is even close. In many cases, the lowest income earners pay as much as four times as much in taxes than the highest income earners.

http://www.itepnet.org/whopays3.pdf
 

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