Do commandments and threats negate free will?

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by GreatestIam, Feb 23, 2012.

  1. GreatestIam
    Offline

    GreatestIam VIP Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    2,358
    Thanks Received:
    78
    Trophy Points:
    85
    Ratings:
    +150
    Do commandments and threats negate free will?

    Christians think that God gave man free will. There is no question in my mind that we have free will. I think it natural. I believe that free will is something that we take and not something that can be given. Freedom is a natural part of human existence and can only be given to us if it is being forcibly restrained.

    When my children chose to exercise their freedom or free will from the restrictions in our home and moved to their own, any right to control their actions was shifted from my hands to theirs. In effect I did not give them that freedom. They took it. Just as you did when you left your parental care and control. I lost the right to impose my standards on them as well as the right to reward or punish them for what they do in their homes.

    God also gives mankind all kinds of commands. We are also told that if these commands are not followed, we will be severely punished. This includes loving and adoring him.

    To Christians then, God gave us freedom or free will yet kept the right to reward and punish. If we compare that to the reality of life with most families, it seems that God did not give anyone free will. Instead he gives command and basically says to follow them or be punished.

    Do commands and threats negate your idea of what free will is?

    Regards
    DL

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUtSM2oVy_E]Free Will - "God" style: a gift? - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pg5UNxOmTIY]free will of Christianity - Christopher Hitchens - YouTube[/ame]
     
  2. peach174
    Offline

    peach174 Gold Member Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2010
    Messages:
    20,652
    Thanks Received:
    4,067
    Trophy Points:
    290
    Location:
    S.E. AZ
    Ratings:
    +7,473
    God gave us commandments to live a better and healthier life.
    If you follow them you can have a better life mentally as well as physically.
    You have free will to choose not to follow those commandments.
    But look at the price you pay if you don't

    Look at Whitney Houston as a good example of it.
    God gave her the gift of a beautiful voice.
    She was raised a Christian, has always said she loves the Lord but look what she did.
    She left the Lord and turned to alcohol and drugs. Very wrong choice, that she did of her own free will.
    And look what happened to her. God took her voice away from her.
     
  3. Dragon
    Offline

    Dragon Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2011
    Messages:
    5,481
    Thanks Received:
    578
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +579
    Commandment and punishments do not negate free will. What they do negate, especially when applied to belief, is free thought. More, they represent a crutch, an artificial set of morality judgments which, when relied upon, cause the natural ability of the human mind to make morality judgments itself to atrophy, until a person cannot tell right from wrong except when told by the force of authority, and until he cannot understand how someone who doesn't believe in God, and so does not have the threatening voice telling him what to do and what to believe, can possibly have a code of morality.
     
  4. GreatestIam
    Offline

    GreatestIam VIP Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    2,358
    Thanks Received:
    78
    Trophy Points:
    85
    Ratings:
    +150
    :clap2:
    :cuckoo:

    Regards
    DL
     
  5. GreatestIam
    Offline

    GreatestIam VIP Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    2,358
    Thanks Received:
    78
    Trophy Points:
    85
    Ratings:
    +150
    Yes. It is tough for some to show their moral sense when they have to refer to a book written by others and never to his own sense of morality.

    Regards
    DL
     
  6. editec
    Offline

    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    41,427
    Thanks Received:
    5,598
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Maine
    Ratings:
    +5,618
    I'm not entirely convinced FREE WILL actually exists.
     
  7. GreatestIam
    Offline

    GreatestIam VIP Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    2,358
    Thanks Received:
    78
    Trophy Points:
    85
    Ratings:
    +150
    Whose will made you reply to this thread?

    If not yours, I have a little test that shows that you do have free will.

    P M me if you are interested.

    BTW. What makes you think you do not have free will?
    Did you not choose your spouse and decide when to have kids and what not?
    Did you not choose your career?

    Regards
    DL
     
  8. Avatar4321
    Online

    Avatar4321 Diamond Member Gold Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    70,576
    Thanks Received:
    8,171
    Trophy Points:
    2,070
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Ratings:
    +12,219
    If your mom tells you not to touch a hot stove or you'll get burned, have you therefore lost your ability to choose whether you touch the hot stove or not?

    It's amazing the mental gymnastics people will go through to find a way to avoid taking responsibility for their choices.
     
  9. Sky Dancer
    Offline

    Sky Dancer BANNED

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2009
    Messages:
    19,307
    Thanks Received:
    1,158
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +1,164
    Choices. That's what it's all about. Choices that lead in the direction of light and love, and choices that don't.
     
  10. Sky Dancer
    Offline

    Sky Dancer BANNED

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2009
    Messages:
    19,307
    Thanks Received:
    1,158
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +1,164
    Interesting. Elaborate please.

    I'm of the opinion that the spiritual path opens as the ego loosens it's hold.
     

Share This Page