Do Christians have more faith in Jesus or those who told the story?

[peach174]

People have faith in Jesus because they know that the men who wrote the stories was given by God,not man. How can you not have faith, when stories that have been told over thousands of years tie in so perfectly. Especially when the Prophets, Daniel (written around 605-536 B.C.) and Ezekiel (written around 592-570 B.C.) ties in beautifully with Revelation (written around 95-96 A.D.).
You see Revelation happening right before our eyes.
And the Bible says that to know when end times are happening is;
One- the good news of Jesus must be preached to the whole world -Done
2nd- that Israel must become a nation again -Done
3rd- That the world will be in a huge climate change -On going.
4th - That the world will be in turmoil -On going
5th - That there will be famines,pestilences, and earthquakes - happening
I believe that we are starting in the 3rd seal of Revelation - where wheat and barley prices will rise so dramatically that it will cost you a day wage. Seems to be starting.
So, each to his or her own. Believe or don't Believe. It's up to you.

Peach the Bible also says you can see the whole world from a big hill, that there's only been dozens of generations of humans from the time the world came to be and the time of the Bible (hence when people say the world is approx. 6000 years old), also says a human can live inside a magical fish, the great flood, and on and on and on.

I wouldn't use history or science to try and bolster your religion. Just use your faith.

I'm not using history or science. I never said that the earth is only 6,000 yr's old. And the stories are for life lessons. I am saying that we are in end times and that I am a believer.
And that what is written in the Bible has happened and still is happening.
Lot's of people get the 6,000 yr old thing wrong. The earth is millions of years old and so is the universe. When God created everything on earth it took him 6,000 yr's in mankind's timing. The Bible says 1,000 years of mankind is one day for me.

 

[manifold]

A good swing of the bat with the assumption, but not quite on target. I am atheist but connecting me asking a particular question about one religion of thousands wouldn't be me trying to validate. I'm perfectly validated by science, nothing more necessary. This is a message board to discuss things, that's what I'm doing.

Why so defensive?

Interesting you'd take that as me being defensive, you made an assumption and I simply explained why it was wrong.

You're entitled to an opinion.

 

[Mini 14]

My faith is in God, and Jesus, not the Bible itself.

They tell me what I need to know directly, the Bible is merely an introduction.

So no....this doesn't affect me in any way.

So...God and Jesus talk to you directly?

Yes, they do.

 

[konradv]

Codex Sinaiticus, the world's oldest Bible, unified online for the first time in over a century

Think about it, the oldest biblical writings found were written 400-500 years after the fact. This would mean for all those years the books and stories of the Bible would have had to have been told perfectly person to person with nothing left out.

So this means you have to have 100% faith that a text written 400-500 years after the fact is 100% accurate and for the sections that are missing you have to have complete faith that every word was relayed perfectly and translated exactly from language to language.

I think that takes as much faith as christianity in general.

That's one reason the RCC doesn't make a fetish of the Bible and recommends one studies it under the guidance of someone learned in the subject, so that people like Koresh et al. don't lead people astray.

Don't people who become "learned" on the subject do so by reading these old texts?

The texts are old but put this into your own life. Imagine you had family that came over with Christopher Columbus, then the story is told family to family for hundreds of years, then you write it down. Do you think what you wrote down will be exactly what the person said and went through so many hundreds of years ago?

My example doesn't even include the next 1500 years.

You're assuming that the text in question was the first. How would you go about proving that? I see it as simply the oldest found and probably not the first.

 

[manifold]

My faith is in God, and Jesus, not the Bible itself.

They tell me what I need to know directly, the Bible is merely an introduction.

So no....this doesn't affect me in any way.

So...God and Jesus talk to you directly?

Yes, they do.

Is that where you heard Dumbo is the big climax you were looking for?

 

[Mini 14]

So...God and Jesus talk to you directly?

Yes, they do.

Is that where you heard Dumbo is the big climax you were looking for?

Ah Manny, my friend......

They talk to you too.

But you aren't listening

 

[konradv]

Codex Sinaiticus, the world's oldest Bible, unified online for the first time in over a century

Think about it, the oldest biblical writings found were written 400-500 years after the fact. This would mean for all those years the books and stories of the Bible would have had to have been told perfectly person to person with nothing left out.

So this means you have to have 100% faith that a text written 400-500 years after the fact is 100% accurate and for the sections that are missing you have to have complete faith that every word was relayed perfectly and translated exactly from language to language.

I think that takes as much faith as christianity in general.

no it doesn't. it just means earlier copies didn't survive until now or haven't been found.

fail

So how do you know the pages found 400-500 years later are word for word exactly the same as those older texts that haven't been found? Blind faith right?

Succeed lol

It's obvious that it wasn't the first. The first Christian Bible was assembled 100-200 years before that and NOT by word of mouth. There's a longstanding tradition of making copies like that perfect. After all, it's the word of God. An example is the Jewish Torah. Newly created copies are word-for-word identical to the earliest copies known.

 

[Grace]

My faith is in God, and Jesus, not the Bible itself.

They tell me what I need to know directly, the Bible is merely an introduction.

So no....this doesn't affect me in any way.

Perfectly said. Simple and to the point, and the same way I feel.

 

[Againsheila]

Codex Sinaiticus, the world's oldest Bible, unified online for the first time in over a century

Think about it, the oldest biblical writings found were written 400-500 years after the fact. This would mean for all those years the books and stories of the Bible would have had to have been told perfectly person to person with nothing left out.

So this means you have to have 100% faith that a text written 400-500 years after the fact is 100% accurate and for the sections that are missing you have to have complete faith that every word was relayed perfectly and translated exactly from language to language.

I think that takes as much faith as christianity in general.

Baloney. You only have to have faith in the gist of it. Love they neighbor as thyself, love thy enemy, etc. Everyone knows the Bible was written by man but inspired by God, as such, each person must interpret the writings and their meanings for themselves. And then there are the mistakes in the translation, which they often find and correct. The Bible isn't perfect, but then neither are any of us.

 

[amrchaos]

Those who reinterpret the story.

Recall that jesus told people to cast out their eyes if it causes them to lust, Cut off their arms if the arms causes them to stumble. But do we see any no-eyed/no arm christians running around? Ok, how about one-eyed or one-armed christians that claim to have maimed themselves in order to follow Jesus commandments?


The answer is obviously NO!

So it must be an allegory, and not what Jesus actually meant. But if you think about it, that means we need to listen to those that understand Jesus, and not Jesus himself, in order to understand Christianity. Thus you must trust the preacher, the Priest, the spiritual leader of your flock and forget reading Jesus words because they are just too deep for us laymen..

 

[Againsheila]

Those who reinterpret the story.

Recall that jesus told people to cast out their eyes if it causes them to lust, Cut off their arms if the arms causes them to stumble. But do we see any no-eyed/no arm christians running around? Ok, how about one-eyed or one-armed christians that claim to have maimed themselves in order to follow Jesus commandments?


The answer is obviously NO!

So it must be an allegory, and not what Jesus actually meant. But if you think about it, that means we need to listen to those that understand Jesus, and not Jesus himself, in order to understand Christianity. Thus you must trust the preacher, the Priest, the spiritual leader of your flock and forget reading Jesus words because they are just too deep for us laymen..

Maybe for you....

 

[bodecea]

My faith is in God, and Jesus, not the Bible itself.

They tell me what I need to know directly, the Bible is merely an introduction.

So no....this doesn't affect me in any way.

So...God and Jesus talk to you directly?

Yes, they do.

Oooooooookaaaaay...and you have guns?

 

[uscitizen]

God told me to kill my children by bashing their heads in, but I did not listen. But I recall some woman who did.

 

[manifold]

Most devout Christians believe that God and Jesus speak to them.

But still, mockery can be fun so by all means, carry on.

 

[uscitizen]

Insane people also believe god speaks to them.

All I know for certain is that he has never spoken to me.
Not even to threaten my ass.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Codex Sinaiticus, the world's oldest Bible, unified online for the first time in over a century

Think about it, the oldest biblical writings found were written 400-500 years after the fact. This would mean for all those years the books and stories of the Bible would have had to have been told perfectly person to person with nothing left out.

So this means you have to have 100% faith that a text written 400-500 years after the fact is 100% accurate and for the sections that are missing you have to have complete faith that every word was relayed perfectly and translated exactly from language to language.

I think that takes as much faith as christianity in general.

Wrong.

The New Testament was written down in its entirety within 100 years of Jesus' death. There are papyrus fragments that date back to between 30 and 70 AD. Additionally, almost the entire test of the New Testament is quoted in other writings of the church fathers.

You really should get your head out of your ass before you talk about religion.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Codex Sinaiticus, the world's oldest Bible, unified online for the first time in over a century

Think about it, the oldest biblical writings found were written 400-500 years after the fact. This would mean for all those years the books and stories of the Bible would have had to have been told perfectly person to person with nothing left out.

So this means you have to have 100% faith that a text written 400-500 years after the fact is 100% accurate and for the sections that are missing you have to have complete faith that every word was relayed perfectly and translated exactly from language to language.

I think that takes as much faith as christianity in general.

That's one reason the RCC doesn't make a fetish of the Bible and recommends one studies it under the guidance of someone learned in the subject, so that people like Koresh et al. don't lead people astray.

Don't people who become "learned" on the subject do so by reading these old texts?

The texts are old but put this into your own life. Imagine you had family that came over with Christopher Columbus, then the story is told family to family for hundreds of years, then you write it down. Do you think what you wrote down will be exactly what the person said and went through so many hundreds of years ago?

My example doesn't even include the next 1500 years.

Hey, dimwit, even the Mayans had writing way before Jesus was born. Just because you are stupid does not mean everyone else is.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

That's one reason the RCC doesn't make a fetish of the Bible and recommends one studies it under the guidance of someone learned in the subject, so that people like Koresh et al. don't lead people astray.

Don't people who become "learned" on the subject do so by reading these old texts?

The texts are old but put this into your own life. Imagine you had family that came over with Christopher Columbus, then the story is told family to family for hundreds of years, then you write it down. Do you think what you wrote down will be exactly what the person said and went through so many hundreds of years ago?

My example doesn't even include the next 1500 years.

You're assuming that the text in question was the first. How would you go about proving that? I see it as simply the oldest found and probably not the first.

It is not even the oldest found. What it is is the oldest copy of the bound Bible. In other words, somebody went through the known manuscripts and copied them all down and bound them together in the form of a book.

 

[Mini 14]

So...God and Jesus talk to you directly?

Yes, they do.

Oooooooookaaaaay...and you have guns?

Several.

What are you interested in?

 

[Mini 14]

Insane people also believe god speaks to them.

All I know for certain is that he has never spoken to me.
Not even to threaten my ass.

He has spoken to you, but you don't listen.

You cannot hear God until you realize that he knows more than you (not vice versa).

If those who God has spoken to are "insane," I'm in pretty good company. And honestly, if I AM "insane," I don't know any better and I'm fine with it, and so is God. I'll just keep giving people their guns, cashing the checks, listening, and spreading The Word.

You'll hear him one day, that's a certainty. You are the only one who can determine when that day is, but you cannot escape that day. No one can. It is coming as sure as the Sun will rise again this morning.

Until then, I'll put in a good word for you. I honestly don't know that it will make a difference, but it can't hurt to try, huh?

Peace, my deaf friend!