Do black people not want to get ahead?

[RetiredGySgt]

Post statistics that stated without question that blacks teach and stress all those negative things you stated. Stats don't tell the entire story, for by that logic those stats would imply that most or nearly all blacks are immoral while nearly or most whites are not, but how would you know that?



this is BS, the Bass stated that the racial politics of the past have and still do play a part in what we see today, which is why a lot of whites are so quick to dismiss the sins and actions and or downplay them as having no significance today, but its undeniable that they do have an effect, to deny it is to stick your head in the sand. Nevertheless, the Bass stated that regardless of the conditions blacks cannot and should use that as an excuse to succeed and do better which implies that some do not strive for better.

On a linear note, do you really think that whites in America have obtained their higher social and economic status strictly through hard work and stress education without doing absolutely anything wrong to obtain it and that it was all honest? lest you forget, blacks and whites in America have *NOT* lived equally in as far as equality is concerned when one looks at the total time both has been in America. Whites did not have to endure slavery, Jim Crow laws, the terror of the KKK and being lynched, redlining, denial of equal suffrage, discrimination in housing and other racially restrictive policies that stunt advancement like blacks have and 50 years of so called Civil Rights is not going to completely fix the problem and make the sins of the past completely irrelevant today.

So the Irish and the Poles and the Italians and the Catholics were not white? How about the Germans? May want to do a little more research this time with your race blinders off.

Irish, Poles and catholics didn't go through all the same things and you know, did any of them come here as slaves first, became free after hundreds of years and go through the same things? Its no comparison. Far left and far right nutters and those who sympathize with them always like to blame everyone but themselves even when the obvious indicates otherwise.


People like you are the reason why there has been no real progressive talk about race, you're already programmed to think and blame everything on someone else. There will be no progression unless the oppressed do a better job of rising up above the conditions and also unless those who oppress and their sympathizers acknowledge that past policies as well as policies today was and still are a part of the problem. If both sides ignore this progress will be stunted.

Here ya go Kitten PROOF. Only the poor misunderstood, mistreated black is to be treated special, to be pitied and helped.

And for your information Bass, the Irish WERE slaves for HUNDREDS of years, as were the Scots. The Germans were serfs which is just a nice term for slave. The Poles even worse.

Catholics and Italians in America were despised and attacked regularly by the KKK and other groups. Hell we never had a catholic President till 1960, and as far as I know none since.

Your one man racist show is hilarious.

 

[editec]

Why do some racists attempt to couch their racist statements as questions that are as based on thier concern for Blacks' wellbeing?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Why do some racists attempt to couch their racist statements as questions that are as based on thier concern for Blacks' wellbeing?

ASK "the Bass".

 

[Bass v 2.0]

And for your information Bass, the Irish WERE slaves for HUNDREDS of years, as were the Scots. The Germans were serfs which is just a nice term for slave. The Poles even worse.

Catholics and Italians in America were despised and attacked regularly by the KKK and other groups. Hell we never had a catholic President till 1960, and as far as I know none since.

Your one man racist show is hilarious.

In America the Irish were slaves? LMAO, this is getting funnier by the minute, Irish in America had it just as worse as blacks in America?

 

[Bass v 2.0]

Why do some racists attempt to couch their racist statements as questions that are as based on thier concern for Blacks' wellbeing?

Ask your fellow far left liberals that question as well as far right nutters.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

And for your information Bass, the Irish WERE slaves for HUNDREDS of years, as were the Scots. The Germans were serfs which is just a nice term for slave. The Poles even worse.

Catholics and Italians in America were despised and attacked regularly by the KKK and other groups. Hell we never had a catholic President till 1960, and as far as I know none since.

Your one man racist show is hilarious.

In America the Irish were slaves? LMAO, this is getting funnier by the minute, Irish in America had it just as worse as blacks in America?

Did you learn to read English? If so please go back and now provide a source for where I ever said the Irish were slaves for hundreds of years in America. They were however slaves up until at least the early 1800's. In America. Some were not but most were. Just like not all blacks were slaves.

The Irish were treated with the same racism as blacks all across the Country. As were the other groups I listed. Which if you had any real grasp of American History you would know.

 

[Bass v 2.0]

And for your information Bass, the Irish WERE slaves for HUNDREDS of years, as were the Scots. The Germans were serfs which is just a nice term for slave. The Poles even worse.

Catholics and Italians in America were despised and attacked regularly by the KKK and other groups. Hell we never had a catholic President till 1960, and as far as I know none since.

Your one man racist show is hilarious.

In America the Irish were slaves? LMAO, this is getting funnier by the minute, Irish in America had it just as worse as blacks in America?

Did you learn to read English? If so please go back and now provide a source for where I ever said the Irish were slaves for hundreds of years in America. They were however slaves up until at least the early 1800's. In America. Some were not but most were. Just like not all blacks were slaves.

The Irish were treated with the same racism as blacks all across the Country. As were the other groups I listed. Which if you had any real grasp of American History you would know.

Bill O'Reilly made this same stupid argument comparing Irish blacks when their is no comparison.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

In America the Irish were slaves? LMAO, this is getting funnier by the minute, Irish in America had it just as worse as blacks in America?

Did you learn to read English? If so please go back and now provide a source for where I ever said the Irish were slaves for hundreds of years in America. They were however slaves up until at least the early 1800's. In America. Some were not but most were. Just like not all blacks were slaves.

The Irish were treated with the same racism as blacks all across the Country. As were the other groups I listed. Which if you had any real grasp of American History you would know.

Bill O'Reilly made this same stupid argument comparing Irish blacks when their is no comparison.

In other words, only YOUR people can ever have suffered and only THEY deserve redress and can make excuses for their behavior now. Thanks for once again proving your a racist.

The HISTORICAL FACTS are that the Irish were slaves, the Scots were slaves, the Poles were slaves, the Germans were slaves. A serf is nothing more than a name for slave. Serfs were WHITE people for Hundreds of YEARS.

In American the FACTS are that Irish, German, Polish, Italian and Catholic whites were treated as second class citizens and a lot came here as SLAVES. And yet rather then roll around in pity and make their life WORSE those groups worked through the hardships and changed their fate in American Life.

Asians are minorities and face prejudice also. Remind us how they as a group in America are in the same sorry state of affairs as blacks?

 

[del]

Come on Kitten even Bass knew what I meant.

might want to ponder the meaning of that.

 

[jillian]

You two are PART of the problem. It is a fact of life that black society in the slums has taught whole generations of blacks to NOT get an eductaion, to not work to improve their economic position.

And no, it is not because of the white man keeping them down either. Well ya actually it is, but not the way YOU mean it.

Liberals went out of their way to turn hard working, independent black families into dependent slugs of a welfare State. One reason was for votes and power. And they generally succeeded.

When you spend 50 years giving hand outs and teaching a group of people that hard work, initiative and drive mean nothing and that Big Brother will feed and cloth you and house you as long as you VOTE for the right party... you have done nothing but return those people to a state of SLAVERY. It may be self imposed but that is what it is.

Whole generations going back to 70's have learned the lesson well. Destroy the family, get no education, find no work, let Big Brother take care of you.

That ringing in the ears some people are hearing right now is the sound of them being whacked upside the head with reality.

your first paragraph has some truth...the rest is your usual partisan BS.

"success" as defined by white america is not necessarily a respected commodity in certain parts of black america because when poverty is high, the people who the younger folk want to emulate are the people who have the money to flash around... who has money in the poorest areas? drug dealers... gang bangers.... who gets the girls? drug dealers... gang bangers.

so telling some kid to ignore that, without doing anything to change his ENVIRONMENT... where his mother has the same preconceptions... can't succeed.

as for the breaking up of the family... huge problem, but that would go more to the large numbers of black men who are jailed....

only a nutbar thinks its a "liberal plot".

 

[editec]

If being screwed by this nation were a suite of cards, then the AmerIndians would have the ACE and the Blacks the King.

Other ethnics which came to our shore also possess lesser cards in that suite to be sure.

The Irish probably have one of the face cards as would the Chinese.

the fact is that America (and Americans) were seldomly welcoming of any new ethnic which joined them.

I can show you examples of how the Germans who came to English communities in Pennsylvania were thought to be dirty, lazy, shifless, criminals, too.

Yeah, that's right the GERMANS were accused of everything that any of you have accused the Mexicans or Black of being in the 18th century.

Xenophobia is nothing new and doesn't require skin coloration differences to manifest.

 

[RodISHI]

And for your information Bass, the Irish WERE slaves for HUNDREDS of years, as were the Scots. The Germans were serfs which is just a nice term for slave. The Poles even worse.

Catholics and Italians in America were despised and attacked regularly by the KKK and other groups. Hell we never had a catholic President till 1960, and as far as I know none since.

Your one man racist show is hilarious.

In America the Irish were slaves? LMAO, this is getting funnier by the minute, Irish in America had it just as worse as blacks in America?

Factually yes there were Irish slaves and some were not slaves yet they were treated with disgust by many. The Irish were brought in by the groves for hard labor.

Every society in one way or another has been discriminated against at one time or another. Searching my grandmothers background most Cherokee babes that were female were not even listed properly when they were adopted out to be raised by white folks in that day and age in America.

Our American history is not perfect when it comes to discrimination against color, nationality and heritage.

 

[jgbkab]

Everyone wants to get ahead including black Americans. How can anyone say that blacks try to keep other blacks down or that blacks shun education without walking a mile? If you think that all blacks have an equal chance from birth like all other races, I invite you to let me show you where I grew up and the education I had. Better yet, it's on film and it's called the Corridor of Shame so you can see it without experiencing it.

Some want to talk about other classes of people when even though those other classes are not black. American Indians were given land no matter how small the land was. German, Irish, etc. were white and never even seen the amount of injustice in America that blacks have endured. Hell, you still have people talking about send the blacks back to Africa, ******* are dumb, and ******* are all gangstas and ghetto and it's fucking 2009. And you have Web sites promoting this.

It's really easy to sit in your suburban/rural homes and see black people on TV or in Walmart and wonder why they act the way they do. But it's much too hard to find out on your own so you let statistics and news reports do the research for you.

 

[HUGGY]

Dude worded it quite well. Mine is: Wealth is a state of mind.

Really, fighting against adversity is what makes living things stronger, without the challenges you fail. Perhaps you should point the finger at those who are making it too easy instead, it's more logical.

Wealth is a state of mind.


How wealthy do you imagine you are?

 

[justabubba]

In America the Irish were slaves? LMAO, this is getting funnier by the minute, Irish in America had it just as worse as blacks in America?

you REALLY need to read How the Irish Became White
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Irish-Became-White-Noel-Ignatiev/dp/0415918251]Amazon.com: How the Irish Became White: Noel Ignatiev: Books[/ame]

you will find that slave owners chose the indentured irish to do the most dangerous jobs because if they got killed, the slave owner lost only the remaining years of indenture

"no irish need apply", "no irish allowed", were common signs back in the day. not trying to demean the tragic black experience in our nation, just trying to offer some factual perspective

while much of what the OP offers is true, that he only cites the crab effect afflicting the black community is not. poor whites ... just experience west virginia to see it ... similarly place little emphasis on education as a means to "success". they also chide those who succeed, surpassing their former peers, as one who is showing out. people with no prospects for anything better resent being left behind. it would be very wrong to pretend that happens only within the black community

on the other hand there are groups which stress education and hard work, and who support those who work hard and get a good education. jewish people tend to have that perspective, as do many asians who have come to our shores. and we see a disproportionate positive economic and education outcome for those groups

if you can't dream it, you will never do it. there are too many, in every corner of society, who would want to dash our dreams ... such as the OP

 

[editec]

Everyone wants to get ahead including black Americans.

True

How can anyone say that blacks try to keep other blacks down or that blacks shun education without walking a mile?

By generalizing based on their own prejudices, naturally.

If you think that all blacks have an equal chance from birth like all other races, I invite you to let me show you where I grew up and the education I had.

I love field trips.

Better yet, it's on film and it's called the Corridor of Shame so you can see it without experiencing it.

I'll check it out

Some want to talk about other classes of people when even though those other classes are not black.

Yes, it's called getting the whole story. This is a bad thing why, exactly?

American Indians were given land no matter how small the land was.

Some of the surviving Indian tribes were given land...until or unless we discovered we needed it, and then they were given wothless land elsewhere.

German, Irish, etc. were white and never even seen the amount of injustice in America that blacks have endured.

Yeah, I think that's certainly true, too.

Nevertheless they were also treated poorly.

Hell, you still have people talking about send the blacks back to Africa, ******* are dumb, and ******* are all gangstas and ghetto and it's fucking 2009. And you have Web sites promoting this.

Yup. Anti-Black racism is alive and well, especially on this board where it is not only tolerated but encouraged.

It's really easy to sit in your suburban/rural homes and see black people on TV or in Walmart and wonder why they act the way they do.

Yup. Been there, did it myself.

But it's much too hard to find out on your own so you let statistics and news reports do the research for you.

None of us who are not Black can possible understand what it is like to be Black, that's for sure. Neither can any Black understand what it's like to be White unless they can pass.

This is, I suspect, exactly WHY racism (ethnocentris,. Xenophobia and ethnic pride) thrives.

Many people are so self centered and ignorant that they cannot get out of their own shoes long enough to imagine what it must be like to walk in another's pair.

We all suffer from that shortcoming to some extent, but some of us are simply blind to any experience other than our own.

 

[del]

Everyone wants to get ahead including black Americans.

True

How can anyone say that blacks try to keep other blacks down or that blacks shun education without walking a mile?

By generalizing based on their own prejudices, naturally.



I love field trips.




I'll check it out



Yes, it's called getting the whole story. This is a bad thing why, exactly?




Some of the surviving Indian tribes were given land...until or unless we discovered we needed it, and then they were given wothless land elsewhere.




Yeah, I think that's certainly true, too.

Nevertheless they were also treated poorly.




Yup. Anti-Black racism is alive and well, especially on this board where it is not only tolerated but encouraged.

It's really easy to sit in your suburban/rural homes and see black people on TV or in Walmart and wonder why they act the way they do.

Yup. Been there, did it myself.

But it's much too hard to find out on your own so you let statistics and news reports do the research for you.

None of us who are not Black can possible understand what it is like to be Black, that's for sure. Neither can any Black understand what it's like to be White unless they can pass.

This is, I suspect, exactly WHY racism (ethnocentris,. Xenophobia and ethnic pride) thrives.

Many people are so self centered and ignorant that they cannot get out of their own shoes long enough to imagine what it must be like to walk in another's pair.

We all suffer from that shortcoming to some extent, but some of us are simply blind to any experience other than our own.

bullshit.
put up or shut up time.

 

[jgbkab]

Ed, the fact is that it's really harder to be black in America than a lot of other people think. Think about if your family was treated like slaves and your neighbors family was treated like the Indians. The oppressors tell you that were gonna treat you and your neighbor better but we're going to send them to a house they built on some private land for them but you and your family just better be glad you're free, boy. You're going to have resentment no matter who you are. And then you have the descendants of the oppressors telling you that you are equal to everyone else, but when it's time for the promotion you get passed over for someone with less experience and education. Or you apply for a job, but get a lesser job than what you applied (and qualified) for. The first thing that pops into your mind is 'that fucking racist.' It's because blacks experience inequality so much that they can't even distinguish real racism/racists from anything else. Black people don't aspire to be uneducated, drug dealers and thieves. They want their children to succeed like everyone else. They just have a helluva lot less to work with and some things have to take the back burner to education. Then someone says "look at Obama or Powell. Don't tell me it can't be done." Neither Obama nor Powell can tell you what it's like to really live as a black American. Jackson, Sharpton and all the other figureheads can't either. But the people that can tell you are silenced as thugs and such. The ones that actually came from inner city poverty. There needs to be dialogue about this situation and it's going to continue to plague the U.S. until we realize it's not just the blacks that have all the problems.

 

[Bass v 2.0]

In other words, only YOUR people can ever have suffered and only THEY deserve redress and can make excuses for their behavior now. Thanks for once again proving your a racist.

Don't misrepresent the Bass' position, it was never stated that blacks were the only ones that suffered, what was critiqued was your idiotic statement that the Irish were treated just as worse as blacks, thats not even a comparison, do Irish still suffer and face many obstacles because of their legacy of slavery?

The HISTORICAL FACTS are that the Irish were slaves, the Scots were slaves, the Poles were slaves, the Germans were slaves. A serf is nothing more than a name for slave. Serfs were WHITE people for Hundreds of YEARS.

None of those people were in chattel slavery and had their original names, languages and cultures stripped from them and were considered as 3/5 human. None of them faced substandard conditions and signs that said "Irish/Polish/German/Scots only.

Asians are minorities and face prejudice also. Remind us how they as a group in America are in the same sorry state of affairs as blacks?

Repeat jackass, they didn't suffer from the same legacy as blacks, none of them came here as slaves without any rights, you're comparison is like saying those who invaded Grenada had it just as hard as those in Vietnam.

 

[editec]

Everyone wants to get ahead including black Americans.

True



By generalizing based on their own prejudices, naturally.



I love field trips.




I'll check it out



Yes, it's called getting the whole story. This is a bad thing why, exactly?




Some of the surviving Indian tribes were given land...until or unless we discovered we needed it, and then they were given wothless land elsewhere.




Yeah, I think that's certainly true, too.

Nevertheless they were also treated poorly.




Yup. Anti-Black racism is alive and well, especially on this board where it is not only tolerated but encouraged.



Yup. Been there, did it myself.

But it's much too hard to find out on your own so you let statistics and news reports do the research for you.

None of us who are not Black can possible understand what it is like to be Black, that's for sure. Neither can any Black understand what it's like to be White unless they can pass.

This is, I suspect, exactly WHY racism (ethnocentris,. Xenophobia and ethnic pride) thrives.

Many people are so self centered and ignorant that they cannot get out of their own shoes long enough to imagine what it must be like to walk in another's pair.

We all suffer from that shortcoming to some extent, but some of us are simply blind to any experience other than our own.

bullshit.
put up or shut up time.

Oh, I don't think I'll be shutting up any time soon, Del.

So, given that I have absolutely no plans to shut up, what exactly would you have me put up?

I aim to please, lad, so please do be specific.