Do Americans favor the creation of a public health insurance?

[Skull Pilot]

first, let's define uninsured and get an accurate number of people who are actually uninsured not those that are eligible for medicaid and schip but not enrolled, not those that are illegal alien, not those that can afford insurance and choose not to buy it.

How many uninsured people need additional help from taxpayers?*|*KeithHennessey.com

* There were 45.7 million uninsured people in the U.S. in 2007.
* Of that amount, 6.4 million are the Medicaid undercount. These are people who are on one of two government health insurance programs, Medicaid or S-CHIP, but mistakenly (intentionally or not) tell the Census taker that they are uninsured. There is disagreement about the size of the Medicaid undercount. This figure is based on a 2005 analysis from the Department of Health and Human Services.
* Another 4.3 million are eligible for free or heavily subsidized government health insurance (again, either Medcaid or SCHIP), but have not yet signed up. While these people are not pre-enrolled in a health insurance program and are therefore counted as uninsured, if they were to go to an emergency room (or a free clinic), they would be automatically enrolled in that program by the provider after receiving medical care. There’s an interesting philosophical question that I will skip about whether they are, in fact, uninsured, if technically they are protected from risk.
* Another 9.3 million are non-citizens. I cannot break that down into documented vs. undocumented citizens.
* Another 10.1 million do not fit into any of the above categories, and they have incomes more than 3X the poverty level. For a single person that means their income exceeded $30,600 in 2007, when the median income for a single male was $33,200 and for a female, $21,000. For a family of four, if your income was more than 3X the poverty level in 2007, you had $62,000 of income or more, and you were above the national median.
* Of the remaining 15.6 million uninsured, 5 million are adults between ages 18 and 34 and without kids.
* The remaining 10.6 million do not fit into any of the above categories, so they are:
U.S. citizens;
with income below 300% of poverty;
not on or eligible for a taxpayer-subsidized health insurance program;
and not a childless adult between age 18 and 34.

seems to me the number of 45.7 million being thrown at us is a flat out lie.

 

[Political Junky]

LOL, Hennesssey worked for the Bush administration. You really trust his numbers?

 

["b0xcar*girl*]

Social Security - the biggest, most complicated, most heavily regulated insurance company in the history of mankind is run by YOUR federal government at less than 1% for ALL overhead and administrative costs.

Don't tell me that We, The People can't efficiently run our own insurance program.

The less money required to send insurance executives to conferences in Cancun and pay bonuses, the more money available to pay claims for beneficiaries who have paid into the system and the cheaper the premiums need to be.

Duh!

-Joe

Are you seriously using social security as the model for how healthcare should be run? Wow. I didn't know that anyone was a fan of social security. Social security has been leaking and flat-out losing money for years. Remember how Al Gore wanted to put it in a lock box? Because the program stinks. We put money in and somehow it disappears. By 2025 or 2030 it is supposed to be all dried up and gone, despite the chunk they take every month from my paycheck and yours. That is why, sir, I seriously doubt overhead costs are less than 1%. And there's no way this federal government can pull of a successful medical program, especially if social security, medicare and medicaid are examples for how they'd like to pull it off.

I completely agree with the opinion on SS, Medicare and Medicaid. No offense to those who benefit, but I am absolutely sick and tied of paying for everybody else's stuff. I could continue on with a multitude of topics here, but I'll shut up.

 

[jreeves]

LOL, Hennesssey worked for the Bush administration. You really trust his numbers?

I trust the Census Bureau, which stated that 10 million of the 47 million are non-Americans.

 

[Political Junky]

Are you seriously using social security as the model for how healthcare should be run? Wow. I didn't know that anyone was a fan of social security. Social security has been leaking and flat-out losing money for years. Remember how Al Gore wanted to put it in a lock box? Because the program stinks. We put money in and somehow it disappears. By 2025 or 2030 it is supposed to be all dried up and gone, despite the chunk they take every month from my paycheck and yours. That is why, sir, I seriously doubt overhead costs are less than 1%. And there's no way this federal government can pull of a successful medical program, especially if social security, medicare and medicaid are examples for how they'd like to pull it off.

Believe it. The administrative costs, ALL of them, including office space, wages, training, computers, heat, lights, the whole shit and shaboodle are less than 1 penny out of every tax dollar collected (just FICA taxes, mind you, not all taxes). The reason? SSA is managed and manned by professionals who are committed to excellence and willing to do the job for a reasonable wage.

SSA is the most efficiently run insurance program ever conceived. That's why the health insurance industry is lobbying so hard to keep their gravy train to themselves - they would fold under the competition.

SSA is solvent until 2035 - 2045 depending on what happens with the economy, and things are looking good for reform because starting in 1984 all newly hired members of congress were covered by SS, and civil service began being grandfathered out. As soon as the old timers like Kennedy are replaced by leadership hired after 1984, you will see Social Security reform cooking nicely on the front burner.

(insert your favorite Deity here) bless the USA!

-Joe

They have already come out with a statement that SS will be in default or serious trouble long before they anticipated.

Social security/Medicare--plus the management of Fannie/Freddie tells me how enept our government is at manageing anything.

I am an employer. Now imagine what you could have done with 12.6% of your gross wages- through-out your entire working years--invested in safe-secure government bonds--that pay out 4-6% returns? Compare that to what social security pays to you--about 1-1/2% & the difference is astronomical.

And would have lost all of that investment in the Bush crash.
Bushies wanted private investments to feed their buds in the investment business.

 

[jreeves]

Believe it. The administrative costs, ALL of them, including office space, wages, training, computers, heat, lights, the whole shit and shaboodle are less than 1 penny out of every tax dollar collected (just FICA taxes, mind you, not all taxes). The reason? SSA is managed and manned by professionals who are committed to excellence and willing to do the job for a reasonable wage.

SSA is the most efficiently run insurance program ever conceived. That's why the health insurance industry is lobbying so hard to keep their gravy train to themselves - they would fold under the competition.

SSA is solvent until 2035 - 2045 depending on what happens with the economy, and things are looking good for reform because starting in 1984 all newly hired members of congress were covered by SS, and civil service began being grandfathered out. As soon as the old timers like Kennedy are replaced by leadership hired after 1984, you will see Social Security reform cooking nicely on the front burner.

(insert your favorite Deity here) bless the USA!

-Joe

They have already come out with a statement that SS will be in default or serious trouble long before they anticipated.

Social security/Medicare--plus the management of Fannie/Freddie tells me how enept our government is at manageing anything.

I am an employer. Now imagine what you could have done with 12.6% of your gross wages- through-out your entire working years--invested in safe-secure government bonds--that pay out 4-6% returns? Compare that to what social security pays to you--about 1-1/2% & the difference is astronomical.

And would have lost all of that investment in the Bush crash.
Bushies wanted private investments to feed their buds in the investment business.

The people who didn't invest their money responsibly would have lost a lot. But they would be enjoying returns this year. Historically speaking(including the Great Depression), investment ROIs in the stock market have wildly outperformed any government program ROI.

 

[Immanuel]

I might, emphasize might, be for a public health insurance plan. As long as, emphasize as long as, it is not the only plan available. President Obama's plan has always been to create his insurance plan and prevent other plans from competing with his plan. Sorry, but I have a problem with that.

If the government wants to create a public health insurance plan for people who can't afford health insurance, that is one thing, as long as, emphasize as long as, it is not subsidized by people who pay for their own insurance, but I am most definitely opposed to any plan that forces me to rely on a government bean counter for my healthcare.

Immie

 

[Dr Grump]

yep my 2 million dollar health care coverage probably wouldn't cover it.

You're not the brightest spark are ya Reevesie. Reread my post again....

 

[jreeves]

Socialised medicine is a better prospect that what you have now. Both feed off each other. They're pretty similar if you sit down and think about it...

Yeah they really are like one another, except one has long lines and crappy medical equipment and will cost us an additional 1 to 2 trillion dollars..........

Maybe that is the way it is in the US...

However, I'll say this - if you pay premiums or taxes what's the difference. I doubt if you have a serious heart operation that your premiums would cover it. So you are leeching off the other premium providers. Sucking from a different teet is still sucking from a teet...

Grumpy, go to bed...If you want socialized medicine in your country and wait for specialist or an MRI go ahead. I enjoy the best procedures in the world and your country I'm sure is sucking off the teet of my country's research. One way we could keep medical costs down in this country is to start making other countries pay for our research.

 

[Dr Grump]

Grumpy, go to bed...If you want socialized medicine in your country and wait for specialist or an MRI go ahead. I enjoy the best procedures in the world and your country I'm sure is sucking off the teet of my country's research. One way we could keep medical costs down in this country is to start making other countries pay for our research.

We don't wait. If I need an MRI urgently, I get one. No waiting, no nothing. Sometimes we pay for doctors visits. There is a mixture here of insured and public. The only waiting lists in the public service are for elective surgery. Sure, if you want a knee replaced it might take you 18 months, but if its ultra-urgent it gets done straight away. That's what happens when you listen to the harpies who don't know what they are talking about and just say things to fit their arguments without even living here or knowing the reality..

If you are to use the research argument it cuts both ways...You think you invented everything? The person who led the team that split the atom was a NZer....you want to go down that road? I won't even go into the combustion engine or a myriad of other things. Like most of your arguments

 

[Political Junky]

Grumpy, go to bed...If you want socialized medicine in your country and wait for specialist or an MRI go ahead. I enjoy the best procedures in the world and your country I'm sure is sucking off the teet of my country's research. One way we could keep medical costs down in this country is to start making other countries pay for our research.

We don't wait. If I need an MRI urgently, I get one. No waiting, no nothing. Sometimes we pay for doctors visits. There is a mixture here of insured and public. The only waiting lists in the public service are for elective surgery. Sure, if you want a knee replaced it might take you 18 months, but if its ultra-urgent it gets done straight away. That's what happens when you listen to the harpies who don't know what they are talking about and just say things to fit their arguments without even living here or knowing the reality..

If you are to use the research argument it cuts both ways...You think you invented everything? The person who led the team that split the atom was a NZer....you want to go down that road? I won't even go into the combustion engine or a myriad of other things. Like most of your arguments

Cool come back. Are you in New Zealand?

 

[jreeves]

Grumpy, go to bed...If you want socialized medicine in your country and wait for specialist or an MRI go ahead. I enjoy the best procedures in the world and your country I'm sure is sucking off the teet of my country's research. One way we could keep medical costs down in this country is to start making other countries pay for our research.

We don't wait. If I need an MRI urgently, I get one. No waiting, no nothing. Sometimes we pay for doctors visits. There is a mixture here of insured and public. The only waiting lists in the public service are for elective surgery. Sure, if you want a knee replaced it might take you 18 months, but if its ultra-urgent it gets done straight away. That's what happens when you listen to the harpies who don't know what they are talking about and just say things to fit their arguments without even living here or knowing the reality..

If you are to use the research argument it cuts both ways...You think you invented everything? The person who led the team that split the atom was a NZer....you want to go down that road? I won't even go into the combustion engine or a myriad of other things. Like most of your arguments

I'm sure the combustion engine has everything to do with medical research dipshit.

New Zealand Adults' Health Care System Views and Experiences, 2001 - The Commonwealth Fund
The Commonwealth Fund 2001 International Health Policy Survey finds that New Zealanders, on average, were more satisfied with their health care system in 2001 than they were in 1998. Yet a majority of adults in New Zealand continue to believe their nations health care system needs major improvements. Compared with people in the other four countries surveyed Australia, Canada, the United Kingdom, and the United States New Zealanders were more likely to rate the quality of their health care and physicians positively. On several measures of health care access, however, respondents reported experiences indicate there are inequities based on income and ethnicity. Maori as well as lower-income adults were notably more likely to report going without needed care or experiencing difficulties getting care when needed. Access concerns were often related to cost.

This data brief based on The Commonwealth Fund 2001 International Health Policy Survey focuses on the health system views and experiences of New Zealanders. Comparative findings from the five-nation survey were reported in the May/June issue of Health Affairs. The data brief includes additional analysis of the survey that does not appear in the Health Affairs article.

The New Zealand Health Care System
New Zealand has an excellent public health system, but its focus is on acute care. There are long waiting lists for treatments that are not considered immediately life-threatening. A non life-threatening illness can still leave you debilitated and in a lot of pain. For this reason, almost a third of New Zealanders have health insurance.

There are two main types of health insurance - Comprehensive Care policies and Major Medical or Surgical Care policies. Comprehensive Care policies are more expensive, but cover all of your medical costs up to a certain limit.

Major Medical, Surgical Care or Hospital Only policies cover surgery and specialist visits rather than day-to-day medical costs. This type of insurance is much more affordable - around $100 a month for a typical family of four, but this varies with excesses, pre-existing conditions and other variables. For more information please see my article on medical insurance.


Yes so some bureaucrat decides what is urgent and not urgent....thanks but no thanks.

 

[Political Junky]

Grumpy, go to bed...If you want socialized medicine in your country and wait for specialist or an MRI go ahead. I enjoy the best procedures in the world and your country I'm sure is sucking off the teet of my country's research. One way we could keep medical costs down in this country is to start making other countries pay for our research.

We don't wait. If I need an MRI urgently, I get one. No waiting, no nothing. Sometimes we pay for doctors visits. There is a mixture here of insured and public. The only waiting lists in the public service are for elective surgery. Sure, if you want a knee replaced it might take you 18 months, but if its ultra-urgent it gets done straight away. That's what happens when you listen to the harpies who don't know what they are talking about and just say things to fit their arguments without even living here or knowing the reality..

If you are to use the research argument it cuts both ways...You think you invented everything? The person who led the team that split the atom was a NZer....you want to go down that road? I won't even go into the combustion engine or a myriad of other things. Like most of your arguments

I'm sure the combustion engine has everything to do with medical research dipshit.

New Zealand Adults' Health Care System Views and Experiences, 2001 - The Commonwealth Fund
The Commonwealth Fund 2001 International Health Policy Survey finds that New Zealanders, on average, were more satisfied with their health care system in 2001 than they were in 1998. Yet a majority of adults in New Zealand continue to believe their nations health care system needs major improvements. Compared with people in the other four countries surveyed Australia, Canada, the United Kingdom, and the United States New Zealanders were more likely to rate the quality of their health care and physicians positively. On several measures of health care access, however, respondents reported experiences indicate there are inequities based on income and ethnicity. Maori as well as lower-income adults were notably more likely to report going without needed care or experiencing difficulties getting care when needed. Access concerns were often related to cost.

This data brief based on The Commonwealth Fund 2001 International Health Policy Survey focuses on the health system views and experiences of New Zealanders. Comparative findings from the five-nation survey were reported in the May/June issue of Health Affairs. The data brief includes additional analysis of the survey that does not appear in the Health Affairs article.

The New Zealand Health Care System
New Zealand has an excellent public health system, but its focus is on acute care. There are long waiting lists for treatments that are not considered immediately life-threatening. A non life-threatening illness can still leave you debilitated and in a lot of pain. For this reason, almost a third of New Zealanders have health insurance.

There are two main types of health insurance - Comprehensive Care policies and Major Medical or Surgical Care policies. Comprehensive Care policies are more expensive, but cover all of your medical costs up to a certain limit.

Major Medical, Surgical Care or Hospital Only policies cover surgery and specialist visits rather than day-to-day medical costs. This type of insurance is much more affordable - around $100 a month for a typical family of four, but this varies with excesses, pre-existing conditions and other variables. For more information please see my article on medical insurance.


Yes so some bureaucrat decides what is urgent and not urgent....thanks but no thanks.

Some bureaucrat working for your private insurance company makes life and death decisions for you at present ... like it or not.

 

[jreeves]

We don't wait. If I need an MRI urgently, I get one. No waiting, no nothing. Sometimes we pay for doctors visits. There is a mixture here of insured and public. The only waiting lists in the public service are for elective surgery. Sure, if you want a knee replaced it might take you 18 months, but if its ultra-urgent it gets done straight away. That's what happens when you listen to the harpies who don't know what they are talking about and just say things to fit their arguments without even living here or knowing the reality..

If you are to use the research argument it cuts both ways...You think you invented everything? The person who led the team that split the atom was a NZer....you want to go down that road? I won't even go into the combustion engine or a myriad of other things. Like most of your arguments

I'm sure the combustion engine has everything to do with medical research dipshit.

New Zealand Adults' Health Care System Views and Experiences, 2001 - The Commonwealth Fund
The Commonwealth Fund 2001 International Health Policy Survey finds that New Zealanders, on average, were more satisfied with their health care system in 2001 than they were in 1998. Yet a majority of adults in New Zealand continue to believe their nations health care system needs major improvements. Compared with people in the other four countries surveyed Australia, Canada, the United Kingdom, and the United States New Zealanders were more likely to rate the quality of their health care and physicians positively. On several measures of health care access, however, respondents reported experiences indicate there are inequities based on income and ethnicity. Maori as well as lower-income adults were notably more likely to report going without needed care or experiencing difficulties getting care when needed. Access concerns were often related to cost.

This data brief based on The Commonwealth Fund 2001 International Health Policy Survey focuses on the health system views and experiences of New Zealanders. Comparative findings from the five-nation survey were reported in the May/June issue of Health Affairs. The data brief includes additional analysis of the survey that does not appear in the Health Affairs article.

The New Zealand Health Care System
New Zealand has an excellent public health system, but its focus is on acute care. There are long waiting lists for treatments that are not considered immediately life-threatening. A non life-threatening illness can still leave you debilitated and in a lot of pain. For this reason, almost a third of New Zealanders have health insurance.

There are two main types of health insurance - Comprehensive Care policies and Major Medical or Surgical Care policies. Comprehensive Care policies are more expensive, but cover all of your medical costs up to a certain limit.

Major Medical, Surgical Care or Hospital Only policies cover surgery and specialist visits rather than day-to-day medical costs. This type of insurance is much more affordable - around $100 a month for a typical family of four, but this varies with excesses, pre-existing conditions and other variables. For more information please see my article on medical insurance.


Yes so some bureaucrat decides what is urgent and not urgent....thanks but no thanks.

Some bureaucrat working for your private insurance company makes life and death decisions for you at present ... like it or not.

They don't decide if I wait for several months in pain. I can go to my doctor or the hospital anytime I wish....
Also, I know exactly what my insurance covers, its laid out clearly in my statement of benefits

 

[Skull Pilot]

LOL, Hennesssey worked for the Bush administration. You really trust his numbers?

then prove the numbers wrong and you better not use any figures given by someone from the Obama or Clinton administrations or any democrat now serving or any lobby groups pushing for government health care because clearly none of them can be trusted to tell the truth if it means they have to stop telling us that health care is a "ticking time bomb"

 

[Dr Grump]

I'm sure the combustion engine has everything to do with medical research dipshit.

New Zealand Adults' Health Care System Views and Experiences, 2001 - The Commonwealth Fund
The Commonwealth Fund 2001 International Health Policy Survey finds that New Zealanders, on average, were more satisfied with their health care system in 2001 than they were in 1998. Yet a majority of adults in New Zealand continue to believe their nations health care system needs major improvements. Compared with people in the other four countries surveyed Australia, Canada, the United Kingdom, and the United States New Zealanders were more likely to rate the quality of their health care and physicians positively. On several measures of health care access, however, respondents reported experiences indicate there are inequities based on income and ethnicity. Maori as well as lower-income adults were notably more likely to report going without needed care or experiencing difficulties getting care when needed. Access concerns were often related to cost.

This data brief based on The Commonwealth Fund 2001 International Health Policy Survey focuses on the health system views and experiences of New Zealanders. Comparative findings from the five-nation survey were reported in the May/June issue of Health Affairs. The data brief includes additional analysis of the survey that does not appear in the Health Affairs article.

The New Zealand Health Care System
New Zealand has an excellent public health system, but its focus is on acute care. There are long waiting lists for treatments that are not considered immediately life-threatening. A non life-threatening illness can still leave you debilitated and in a lot of pain. For this reason, almost a third of New Zealanders have health insurance.

There are two main types of health insurance - Comprehensive Care policies and Major Medical or Surgical Care policies. Comprehensive Care policies are more expensive, but cover all of your medical costs up to a certain limit.

Major Medical, Surgical Care or Hospital Only policies cover surgery and specialist visits rather than day-to-day medical costs. This type of insurance is much more affordable - around $100 a month for a typical family of four, but this varies with excesses, pre-existing conditions and other variables. For more information please see my article on medical insurance.


Yes so some bureaucrat decides what is urgent and not urgent....thanks but no thanks.

Well, if you're gonna bring up such stupid things as 'we invented it" BS to back your argument, why stop at medical?

As for the rest of your post...your point? As I said, if it is urgent, you get the operation. End of story..

 

[Dr Grump]

They don't decide if I wait for several months in pain. I can go to my doctor or the hospital anytime I wish....
Also, I know exactly what my insurance covers, its laid out clearly in my statement of benefits

Same in NZ. If you are in pain, you get the operation. Isn't socialised medicine a bitch? My father-in-law is getting his fourth replacement (three hips and one knee) in the space of 20 years....

 

[jreeves]

They don't decide if I wait for several months in pain. I can go to my doctor or the hospital anytime I wish....
Also, I know exactly what my insurance covers, its laid out clearly in my statement of benefits

Same in NZ. If you are in pain, you get the operation. Isn't socialised medicine a bitch? My father-in-law is getting his fourth replacement (three hips and one knee) in the space of 20 years....

That's not what the informational website about your nationalized health care states. It states that you could be in pain for months. That's why a third of your population has the "evil" private healthcare in addition to your public ran health care.....

 

[jreeves]

I'm sure the combustion engine has everything to do with medical research dipshit.

New Zealand Adults' Health Care System Views and Experiences, 2001 - The Commonwealth Fund
The Commonwealth Fund 2001 International Health Policy Survey finds that New Zealanders, on average, were more satisfied with their health care system in 2001 than they were in 1998. Yet a majority of adults in New Zealand continue to believe their nations health care system needs major improvements. Compared with people in the other four countries surveyed Australia, Canada, the United Kingdom, and the United States New Zealanders were more likely to rate the quality of their health care and physicians positively. On several measures of health care access, however, respondents reported experiences indicate there are inequities based on income and ethnicity. Maori as well as lower-income adults were notably more likely to report going without needed care or experiencing difficulties getting care when needed. Access concerns were often related to cost.

This data brief based on The Commonwealth Fund 2001 International Health Policy Survey focuses on the health system views and experiences of New Zealanders. Comparative findings from the five-nation survey were reported in the May/June issue of Health Affairs. The data brief includes additional analysis of the survey that does not appear in the Health Affairs article.

The New Zealand Health Care System
New Zealand has an excellent public health system, but its focus is on acute care. There are long waiting lists for treatments that are not considered immediately life-threatening. A non life-threatening illness can still leave you debilitated and in a lot of pain. For this reason, almost a third of New Zealanders have health insurance.

There are two main types of health insurance - Comprehensive Care policies and Major Medical or Surgical Care policies. Comprehensive Care policies are more expensive, but cover all of your medical costs up to a certain limit.

Major Medical, Surgical Care or Hospital Only policies cover surgery and specialist visits rather than day-to-day medical costs. This type of insurance is much more affordable - around $100 a month for a typical family of four, but this varies with excesses, pre-existing conditions and other variables. For more information please see my article on medical insurance.


Yes so some bureaucrat decides what is urgent and not urgent....thanks but no thanks.

Well, if you're gonna bring up such stupid things as 'we invented it" BS to back your argument, why stop at medical?

As for the rest of your post...your point? As I said, if it is urgent, you get the operation. End of story..

Uh...only because everything else is completely irrelevant. I was only referring to medical research.

 

[Yukon]

Poor Americans, it is so sad to know you will die without Health Insurance. How sad, how pitiful, how truly capitalistic.