Dixie: Prejudice, ignorance, and hate? (Serious Civil War inquiry)

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by Mike Dwight, Sep 1, 2018.

  1. Mike Dwight
    Offline

    Mike Dwight Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2017
    Messages:
    88
    Thanks Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Ratings:
    +9
    YOU ARE READING A CAREFULLY MADE SOUTHERN APOLOGETIC ARGUMENT. THIS ANNOUNCEMENT SAVES CONFUSION i.e. black bashing, Dixie bashing, politics bashing, spamming
    I'm sure I'm not the first to know, that slavery, tarrifs, and states rights are Shallow national discussions about the US Civil War, almost all of these alienating or making foreign the Southern effort. All of these causes would be simply Reactionary. The US had slavery. All states had slavery at some point. All the US all were agricultural at some point instead of an industrializing north. all states at some point were from the more Conservative view of Confederated States and confederacy, such as the phrase "Thirteen Colonies" suggests, thirteen states together decided the American Revolution. The Northern States are simply changing or moving away from their original arrangement. Instead, what is required for a proactive war needed proactive imagination and vision from the Southern States. I think the United States could work out a simple Liberal View and Conservative View, but what is required for a War, is something different entirely.

    First off, the Confederacy is a confirmable top-level name and label of the United States from 2nd President James Madison up to Abraham Lincoln's predecessor James Buchanan. 2nd President John Adams named the helvatic swiss confederacy or the Batavian Netherlands confederacy as models on the US Articles of Confederation which predate the US constitution. 4th President James Madison, James Monroe, John Quincy Adams, Andrew Jackson, Martin Van Buren, John Tyler, James K Polk, Franklin Pierce, and probably ALL presidents if I had time for it, moving into James Buchanan and then Abraham Lincoln, made sure to mention a FEW times the state of the Confederacy as it grew in states, as a sure description of our inter-states coalition of the willing. Slavery itself moving to the South doesn't suggest a difference of actual opinion between north or south or cross-purposes. So maybe you can cling that "Slavery was the cause of the War", even when 1 in 5 were slaves in border states or northern states, or that there were some southern Enthusiastic states such as Tennessee with nearly little to Nil slaves entirely. This again is close to a random descriptor of the war. People also, can have reasons to be mean or controlling to each other in this scary and deathly time period full of Bandits for instance, outside of slavery. There were also a few other reasons to be another man's servant, apprenticeships or indentured servitude as slavery was applied in the us Constitution.

    I'd like to note James Madison's intimate governmental knowledge of the Confederate Netherlands and Switzerland, because these are Reformed Christian countries. These countries gained native government and church function from overthrow of the Spanish Empire or the Catholic Church for native rights and government.

    When people decided to take the path of George Washington, rebellion against all unlimited and indefinite offense to liberties and properties, and of their Fathers and their Fathers' God as was all common parlance in this era and by Confederates, they did so with an active moving objective of self-identification, with these Reformed European powers as a fellowship model, with Democratic liberty values highly regarded.

    General Thomas "stonewall" Jackson was a mere lieutenant raised above his rank and a rallying cry during the war and a Lost Cause right at his death. Here are some speculations for Why. Lets look at President Andrew Jackson, who "stonewalled" the British at New Orleans, an evidentially celebrated victory in the South. He also cleared out Native Americans to the West in reference to the best 'interests of these states'. He is a hero from an earlier time, his successor is Thomas "Stonewall Jackson" of no shared relation I'm aware of, both share a Scottish and Presbyterian, or Reformed Christian heritage, such as the Netherlands or Switzerland. Both Anthems of the Confederacy such as "Dixie" are highly regarded but I want to examine the runner-up called the "Bonnie Blue Flag". Bonnie is not made up or used for flair, its a Scottish word which usually is used in Scotland or known abroad to mean dear to ones self and pretty. The Scottish flag itself is Blue and bonnie, and to suggest that it bears a single star, suggests encompassing Democratic and Republican ideals. The Virginian Battle Flag can be discerned from this popular Bonnie Blue Flag tune as it encompassed a cross-shape and more stars into the stainless banner Dixie Flag. This first official use as a government political flag was for Stonewall Jackson's burial. We can tell from almost all official release or sympathetic Confederate songs, an identification with release from universal Catholic, or militaristic control, for the native and local state governments such as in Switzerland, Netherlands, or Scotland, and a Confederacy who was looking for diplomatic Recognition. The Puritans of England decried any sort of Popery, any conforming, or Romanists, which is a safe hatred picked up throughout. The American Eagle which echoes the Roman Eagle should be taken down for the Cross, Citizenship from Roman Republic times is not highly regarded or repeated, rather than the Feudal Subjects of late Medieval Europe, these tend to be true tenants and aspirations from Protestant Reformation times that should change in their system of Government.

    P.S. That was my big Protestant Reformation punch line. I do however have an interest in John Brown's raid as is already common in discussions of Actual causes of the war. As I said, it is hard to imagine nearly gangs of bandits roaming around for slaughter such as John Brown who would clash in battle between civilian pro-slave and anti-slave local factions. John Brown would come to take over a government arsenal in Virginia in hopes of arming all slaves to kill the Southern people, which, still fits our once again, vivid imaginations on race and common humanity, no one did join John Brown in shooting up the arsenal or killing blacks or whites or anybody around, and Robert E Lee is the noted marines commander in retaking the Virginian government arsenal before the US civil War. The largest Northern surrender was again at this arsenal, we can see an ongoing awareness nationally about this arsenal taken by rebellious forces to cause indisputable anarchy as an end state. Compare this with Robert E Lee's reasons for surrender at the end of the war, it would prevent guerilla warfare, I would paraphrase, dishonorable conduct.

    This IS the religion and Ethics forum, and this impacts BOTH of those. The British Isles religions are Anglican and Presbyterian, what do you think of these religions tending to have very low post-war memberships and extreme liberalizations, what is after about the 1930's , America's new Nationalism and isolation in community from Europe's Christians and denominations, and is this really bringing us closer in any sort of understanding with our own African Americans or is this completely separate? What has our nearly native and insular Methodist, Baptist, and various religions since meant to the Nation or yourself? The North were despised as "Yankees" which, isn't said empty, when the South's nicest homes were stuffed with Victorian goods and religious morals, the UK itself only recently outlawing its nonexistent slave trade. I would coin 1500 to 1900, an age of euro-centrism as a backdrop, that takes MANY forms and not the same everywhere. The Southerners maintained a religious unthinking subjugation in these policies, that Thomas Stonewall Jackson named it as God-ordained slavery, as much as he named the death of every soldier God-appointed timing, with a hatred of any sort of flinching or poor discipline. That was Religious self importance different from the UKs 'white man's safeguarding' and guidance as being necessary empire building, that is still connected, but changed. The reference to the Knightly southern man, a Knight of chivalry, of a Christian medieval institution soldier, whereas british empire enforced little to NO religious enforcement or bias throughout its time and empire. Aggressive Spanish males sought to gain English or Scottish kingdoms through marriage subjugation, very central to their protestant Reformation experience, and these highlight many differences between current North America and South America. There are differences in Protestant to Heathen marriage, catholic to Heathen marriage. There are differences between kingdom marriages or more so race marriages if that was even a topic. Catholic Popes more over, supported those marriages tending to bring together new Holy Roman Empires. German immigrants and Irish immigrants have their peculiarities, but We actually already have Old America's answer to our unmistakable Black and American and European-centrism taught at least when I was in school, was an American state called Liberia. The American Colonization Society offered anyone newly free to the state of Liberia which was only separated some time after the Civil War with generous US grants. I wouldn't wish that current over-thrown state on anybody, but the extremes of segregation such as a Blackland of Blackonia do spark imagination. These ideas manifested among blacks themselves between the competing Marcus Garvey's Universal Negro Improvement Association in 1900's ideological battles or with W E Du Bois' NAACP. Marcus Garvey is popular in Jamaica for some reason.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2018
  2. Hossfly
    Offline

    Hossfly ZIONUT Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2008
    Messages:
    37,093
    Thanks Received:
    9,353
    Trophy Points:
    1,370
    Location:
    Charlotte,NC/Ft Worth,TX
    Ratings:
    +38,016
    ???

    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
    • Funny and Agree!! Funny and Agree!! x 3
  3. Ringel05
    Offline

    Ringel05 Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    50,505
    Thanks Received:
    9,503
    Trophy Points:
    2,030
    Location:
    MIB West
    Ratings:
    +28,196
    Yeah, kind of a rambling spewing of something lacking any hint of cohesiveness or real direction. I.e. that was weird........
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. eagle1462010
    Offline

    eagle1462010 Platinum Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2013
    Messages:
    30,658
    Thanks Received:
    6,500
    Trophy Points:
    1,130
    Ratings:
    +21,840
    :confused-84:
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny and Agree!! Funny and Agree!! x 1
  5. Mike Dwight
    Offline

    Mike Dwight Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2017
    Messages:
    88
    Thanks Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Ratings:
    +9
    Look guys, I tried to ignore it before you started quoting each other. I'm not an English major nor a grammarian and if there were particular sections in the post that you are INTERESTED in that you would LIKE additional fleshing out, I would definitely like to help with that. I read the entire thing without difficulty. I don't have MLA or academic citations at the moment.

    The objective is neither glorifying, nor putting down, nor ignoring, nor lying, nor making a character of myself.
     
  6. eagle1462010
    Offline

    eagle1462010 Platinum Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2013
    Messages:
    30,658
    Thanks Received:
    6,500
    Trophy Points:
    1,130
    Ratings:
    +21,840
    Ask a simple question.............say the confederacy and the main point or something.............

    Did all of the South own slaves..............nope....
    Did General Lee agree with slavery..........nope........
    Was Nathan Bedford Forest a slavery nut job..........yep.......

    Not all fought because of slavery.......most who fought didn't own slaves.......they fought because they believed they were being invaded and had a duty to fight...............

    The North argued after the War what to do with the blacks.......considered them second hand citizens afterwards.......moved them to ghettos in the North to work at factories...........if I'm not mistaken..........that is where the word ghetto came from but I might be mistaken.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  7. Hossfly
    Offline

    Hossfly ZIONUT Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2008
    Messages:
    37,093
    Thanks Received:
    9,353
    Trophy Points:
    1,370
    Location:
    Charlotte,NC/Ft Worth,TX
    Ratings:
    +38,016
    It's O.K. but it should be Clear, Complete and Concise.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  8. Ringel05
    Offline

    Ringel05 Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    50,505
    Thanks Received:
    9,503
    Trophy Points:
    2,030
    Location:
    MIB West
    Ratings:
    +28,196
    Fleshing out? Heck you were all over the place like a collection of random musings. Constructing a unified argument is jr high/high school level English.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. eagle1462010
    Offline

    eagle1462010 Platinum Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2013
    Messages:
    30,658
    Thanks Received:
    6,500
    Trophy Points:
    1,130
    Ratings:
    +21,840
    He's new here......Maybe we should cut him some slack and let him try again...........It rambled......

    KISS principle.........Keep it Simple Stupid.......Not calling him stupid.......but it is the principle.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Mike Dwight
    Offline

    Mike Dwight Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2017
    Messages:
    88
    Thanks Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Ratings:
    +9
    Well you completely missed the whole revelation of my post with that purposeful satirizing garbage eagle. None of my post is really about the Ignorable, or , mitigating meanness of slavery, you can see how far down in the post Martin Luther King Jr we really are, as all bad historians are products of their current times and Then History. Blacks and Whites in this country have had intellectual, meaningful and varied through the professions agreements and interactions without, or despite of, Martin Luther King Jr, which is really the hidden Black Hole that all your ideas swirl around.

    I don't think Slave was an often used description on the kinder state of acquaintanceship on long accustomed agreements, it wasn't often used except when Jefferson Davis wished to highlight it he said, not apprentices, not convicts, slaves. That wasn't a common Peculiar Institution Useful Rank identifier. Robert E Lee defended slavery in that it would end in the good time of Christian character rather than war and controversy, very close to his quote. Nathan Forrest isn't notable anywhere close to the topic, he's a nobody, I see where I named Tennessee, which we should think Murfeesboro Tennessee an important AMerican Revolutionary figure or the birthplace of President Andrew Jackson. Nathan Forrest was a Confederate General. I'll agree captured confederates most often named apprehension on why the unionist was in their homestate rather than any politics. The North was very united at least in all end to slavery and the black vote and Republican reconstruction had blacks in government from 1866 to 1880s, why we will often talk about racist insurgence of 1900s. ghetto is directly referring to the surprise round up and literal bricking off over 5 million Jews throughout Europe for easy transport and murder in Nazi concentration camps, flippantly and politically loan worded for black communities, more flippantly for gay and homosexual ghettos.

    Most the audience is probably not familiar with the very real military achievement of the Protestant Reformation which there are many pre-American victories to be thankful for as well. Many will know about Bloody Mary's catholic terror or Marian revolts in Scotland, the Jacobite uprisings in Scotland, the Spanish Empire was technical owner of Netherlands which revolted. These are military achievements for Protestant Reformed churches. Also church-politics relevant, the 1560 Scottish parliament Established the Presbyterian Reformed Church. At the 1700s of Scottish immigration to America, the two kingdoms became a United Kingdom of England and Scotland. This immediately raises questions of , when in a Union, which state's character is most reflected in the Union if you get my meaning. Scottish Parliament and other separate abilities would tend to be dissolved as time goes by. The Presbyterian Almighty God of Scottish origin Established newly in the Confederate Constitution of the "Providence of Almighty God " "in the sovereign character of the states" makes a very profound statement.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2018

Share This Page