Discovery of 3 suns test theories

-Cp said:
You really should try investiging things before opening your trap..:D

The molecular sledgehammer
The amazing story of how scientists struggled for years to duplicate an important bit of chemistry.
by David Demick

Great human inventions are usually recognized, with due fame and honour given to those whose work they are. The awarding of the Nobel Prizes is a yearly reminder to us that great achievements are worthy of recognition and reward.

So it seems a great injustice that the remarkable wonders of biochemistry brought to light in the past hundred years have won much renown for their human discoverers, but little honour for the One who first created them. The names of Watson and Crick are well known for their discovery of the remarkable DNA molecule and the way it is precisely replicated, despite the fact that they certainly cannot claim to have invented it. Even the great achievements of antiquity are still remembered, for instance as the 'Seven Wonders of the Ancient World'. Perhaps there should be a recognition, by creationist biologists, of, say, 'Seven Wonders of the Living World' in honour of God's wonderful works in creating life. The DNA molecule would certainly have its place there. The light-harnessing ability of the chlorophylls (the chemicals that utilize the sun's energy in green plants) might also find a place of honour. Another tiny but marvellous bit of biochemistry which could be nominated to such a position is a mechanism which might be termed 'the molecular sledgehammer'.

To appreciate the work done by this 'sledgehammer', it is important to understand the role of the element nitrogen in the living world. The two main constituents of our atmosphere, oxygen (21%) and nitrogen (78%), both play important roles in the makeup of living things. Both are integral parts of the amino acids which join together in long chains to make all proteins, and of the nucleotides which do the same thing to form DNA and RNA. Getting elemental oxygen (O2) to split apart into atoms and take part in the reactions and structures of life is not hard; in fact, oxygen is so reactive that keeping it from getting into where it's not wanted becomes the more challenging job. However, elemental nitrogen poses the opposite problem. Like oxygen, it is diatomic (each molecule contains two N atoms) in its pure form (N2); but, unlike oxygen, each of its atoms is triple-bonded to the other. This is one of the hardest chemical bonds of all to break. So, how can nitrogen be brought out of its tremendous reserves in the atmosphere and into a state where it can be used by living things?

Perhaps this problem can be better appreciated by putting it into terms of human engineering. We need nitrogen for our bodies, to form amino acids and nucleic acids. We must get this nitrogen from our food, whether plant or animal. The animals we eat must rely on plant sources, and the plants must get it from the soil. Nitrogen forms the basis for most fertilizers used in agriculture, both natural and artificial. Natural animal wastes are rich in nitrogen, and it is largely this property that makes them enrich the soil for plant growth. In the late 1800s, a growing population created a great need for nitrogen compounds that could be used in agriculture. At the time, the search for more usable nitrogen was considered a race to stave off Malthusian1 predictions of mass starvation as population outgrew food supply. So chemists wrestled for years with the problem of how to convert the plentiful nitrogen in the air into a form suitable for use in agriculture.

Since naturally occurring, mineable deposits of nitrates were rare, and involved transportation over large distances, an industrial process was greatly needed. Finally, around 1910, a German, Fritz Haber, discovered a workable large-scale process whereby atmospheric nitrogen could be converted to ammonia (NH3). His process required drastic conditions, using an iron-based catalyst with around 1000oF (540oC) heat and about 300 atmospheres of pressure. Haber was given the 1918 Nobel Prize for chemistry because of the great usefulness of his nitrogen-splitting process to humanity.

One might ask, if elemental gaseous nitrogen is such a tough nut to crack, how do atoms of nitrogen ever get into the soil naturally? Some nitrogen is split and added to the soil by lightning strikes. Again, it is a reminder of the force necessary to split the NN bond that the intense heat and electricity of lightning are needed to do it. Still, only a relatively minor amount of nitrogen is added to the Earth's topsoil yearly by thunderstorms. How is the remainder produced?

The searching chemists of a century ago did not realize that an ingenious method for cracking nitrogen molecules was already in operation. This process did not require high temperatures or pressures, and was already working efficiently and quietly to supply the Earth's topsoil with an estimated 100 million tons of nitrogen every year. This process's inventor was not awarded a Nobel Prize, nor was it acclaimed with much fanfare as the work of genius that it is. This process is humbly carried on by a few species of the 'lowest' forms of life on Earth—bacteria and blue-green algae (Cyanobacteria).

Some of these tiny yet amazingly sophisticated organisms live in symbiosis (mutually beneficial 'living together') with certain 'higher' plants, known as legumes. The leguminous plants include peas, soybeans and alfalfa, long valued as crops because of their unique ability to enrich the soil. The microbes invade their roots, forming visible nodules in which the process of nitrogen cracking is carried on.

Modern biochemistry has given us a glimpse of the enzyme system used in this process. The chief enzyme is nitrogenase, which, like hemoglobin, is a large metalloprotein complex.2 Like Fritz Haber's process, and like catalytic converters in cars today, it uses the principle of metal catalysis. However, like all biological enzymatic processes, it works in a more exact and efficient way than the clumsy chemical processes of human invention. Several atoms of iron and molybdenum are held in an organic lattice to form the active chemical site. With assistance from an energy source (ATP) and a powerful and specific complementary reducing agent (ferredoxin), nitrogen molecules are bound and cleaved with surgical precision. In this way, a 'molecular sledgehammer' is applied to the NN bond, and a single nitrogen molecule yields two molecules of ammonia. The ammonia then ascends the 'food chain', and is used as amino groups in protein synthesis for plants and animals. This is a very tiny mechanism, but multiplied on a large scale it is of critical importance in allowing plant growth and food production on our planet to continue.

Currently, in another application of genetic engineering, chemists are trying to improve the efficiency of the Haber process by implanting the genetic instructions for this nitrogenase complex into coliform bacteria (which may yield significant results when a host of associated bioengineering problems have been solved).3 Thus, man tacitly acknowledges the pre-existence of a vastly superior technology for nitrogen breakdown, but fails to acknowledge or give thanks to God for it. And, once again, man does his imperfect best to copy the perfection of design that God achieved without effort in the first week of this world.

One author summed up the situation well by remarking, 'Nature is really good at it (nitrogen-splitting), so good in fact that we've had difficulty in copying chemically the essence of what bacteria do so well'.4 If one merely substitutes the name of God for the word 'nature', the real picture emerges.

Creationist Christians are often accused of having the same easy answer for any question about specific origin of things in nature: the 'God of the gaps' did it. But this criticism can be easily turned around. What answers do evolutionists give to explain the origin of microscopic marvels like the molecular sledgehammer? They can't explain them scientifically, so they resort to a standard liturgy, worshipping the power of blind chance and natural selection.

One thing is certain—that matter obeying existing laws of chemistry could not have created, on its own, such a masterpiece of chemical engineering. To believe that it was worked out by a wise and caring Creator, who provides all necessary things for the life of His creatures, is far more reasonable than the mystical evolutionary alternative. One grows tired of hearing the same monotonous mantra that 'we know evolution did it, we just don't know how.'

<a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v24/i2/hammer.asp" target=_blank">:duh3:</a>

I think I'll just go ahead and keep my trap open, until you tell me what this citation of yours has to do with anything.

Or is catalysis mentioned somewhere in the Bilble?

Or nitrogen, for that matter?

Any gaseous element? (you do seem at least to be aware that air is not an element).
 
USViking said:
You do not have one single question which is answered.

An example would be the structure of DNA.

Another would be the structure of the atom.

Science has the power to see far enough beneath these structures to know there are still questions. The Gospel is blind to the structures themselves.

Why on earth would you think the Gospel was meant to answer those questions? Can science answer whether there is life after death? Or whether there is a God? Religion can because it involves going to God and finding out for yourself if He is there. Can science get you through trials in your life? Can science teach you how to properly raise your children? Can science give you one bit of true spirituality or charity?

Maybe the reason you dont seem to find any answers in religion is you are asking the wrong questions.
 
USViking said:
I think I'll just go ahead and keep my trap open, until you tell me what this citation of yours has to do with anything.

Or is catalysis mentioned somewhere in the Bilble?

Or nitrogen, for that matter?

Any gaseous element? (you do seem at least to be aware that air is not an element).


Im still waiting for you to provide one of religions questions that it hasnt answered yet. I will probably be holding my breath. or why you seem to think the Gospel doesn't encompass all truth?
 
Avatar4321 said:
And what questions do we have that aren't answered in the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

How about these for starters:

Which denomination of Christianity is interpreting the bible correctly?

Why would "the one and only" God be jealous?

When does life begin, conception or birth?

Why did God rest on the 7th day? Does God get tired?

Is everything that happens part of God's great plan?

Why if something good happens is it a blessing from God, but if something bad happens God had nothing to do with it?

I'm sure I can come up with more.
 
MissileMan said:
How about these for starters:

Which denomination of Christianity is interpreting the bible correctly?

Why would "the one and only" God be jealous?

When does life begin, conception or birth?

Why did God rest on the 7th day? Does God get tired?

Is everything that happens part of God's great plan?

Why if something good happens is it a blessing from God, but if something bad happens God had nothing to do with it?

I'm sure I can come up with more.

Wow. Those are pretty "deep" questions that I had not even considered. I think that some passages can be interpreted to suggest that birth begins at conception. Also, some people have said that God "rested" on the 7th to serve as an example for what we should do. Anyway, I'd like an answer to why the one and only God would be jealous.
 
mattskramer said:
Anyway, I'd like an answer to why the one and only God would be jealous.
Here it is... now will you accept it, or fluff it off?


Question: "What does it mean the God is a jealous God (Exodus 20:5; Deuteronomy 4:24)? I thought jealousy was wrong (Galatians 5:20)."

Answer: It is important here to understand how the word jealous is used; to understand differences in how we use this word as compared to how it used in Exodus 20:5 to describe God. When we use the word jealous, we use it in the sense of being envious of someone who has something we don't have. A person might be jealous or envious of a another person because he or she has a nice car or home (possessions). Or a person might be jealous or envious of another person because of some ability or skill that other person has (such as athletic ability). Another example would be that one person might be jealous or envious of another because of his or her beauty.

When we look at this verse, we find that it is not that God is jealous or envious because someone has something He wants that He does not possess. Exodus 20:4-5 says "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God..." Notice that in this verse God is talking about being jealous if someone gives something that belongs to Him to another.

In these verses, God is speaking of people making idols and bowing down and worshiping those idols instead of giving God the worship that belongs to Him. God is possessive of the worship and service that belongs to Him. It is a sin (as God points out in this commandment) to worship or serve anything other than Him. So, in summary, it is a sin when we desire or we are envious or we are jealous of someone because he has something that we do not have and that does not belong to us. It is a different use of the word jealous when God says He is jealous. What He is jealous for belongs to Him; Worship and service belong to Him alone and are to be given to Him alone.”
 
freeandfun1 said:
Here it is... now will you accept it, or fluff it off?


No. I ask "real" questions and appreciate straight answers. Thanks. I think I see the point. Even though there is only 1 God (my worship of another god would be in vain), He would not like for me to worship anything but Him. He would be "jealous" of my strong attention to anything that I would think that I could place above him.

Am I on the right track?
 
mattskramer said:
No. I ask "real" questions and appreciate straight answers. Thanks. I think I see the point. Even though there is only 1 God (my worship of another god would be in vain), He would not like for me to worship anything but Him. He would be "jealous" of my strong attention to anything that I would think that I could place above him.

Am I on the right track?
yes. And I apologize for the insinuation. As you know, there are many that ask questions only to start an argument.
 
USViking said:
...Oh, I listen- I can't help but listen: the faithful scream in my face every day!
Once in a while I feel the need to vent, and scream back. If you dish it out, you gotta choke it down.

Perhaps you can explain why non-believers get so upset at the attempts of Christians to tell them about God? I have wondered this for a long time. What exactly is so terrible about someone trying to save your soul? (Which is what believers are ultimately trying to accomplish when they share the Gospel). When T-Mobile or Sprint calls to convince me to give them my money, I choose yes or no. I don't feel the need to argue with them, or debunk what they think about their product. I just say "no thanks". And if they call back another day, I will most likely say no thanks again. And they are only looking to make a profit, not ensure my salvation. It could be that your strong reaction means that something bigger than you is tugging at your heart. :)
 
I think the point that US Viking makes, and correct me if i'm wrong as I'm going to try to divine it from what little I know, is that holy texts don't lay out the exact mechanisms for all of God's creations.

I've always found it strikingly odd that those who think science is religion in itself. For some, it is, perhaps. However, there most see science as a way of explaining our world, and to those who believe in God, a way to map God's creation. I've always figured, and I speak with no theological authority, that if God did not want us to figure stuff out for ourselves, he would not have given us logic and a brain.

No realms of science and religions are not in contriance to each other. One needs to look no further that Albert Einstein himself who said:

"My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind."

It is those details which those dedicated to science strive, if only to understand a bit more of creation.
 
Avatar4321 said:
Why on earth would you think the Gospel was meant to answer those questions? Can science answer whether there is life after death? Or whether there is a God? Religion can because it involves going to God and finding out for yourself if He is there. Can science get you through trials in your life? Can science teach you how to properly raise your children? Can science give you one bit of true spirituality or charity?

Maybe the reason you dont seem to find any answers in religion is you are asking the wrong questions.

My responses here have been provoked by post #2 to this thread,
which was a swipe at science, falsely asserting science claimed to have all the answers.

I think scientists, when pressed on the issue, would agree that science may never be able to provide all the answers. Nevertheless, it has provided many in its short life, while the scriptures have been of absolutely no assistance.

As for the trials of life, it is science alone which has extended life expectancies enough so that most of us can at least live long enough to have trials to face.

I would say science in the form of pediatric guides can be helpful in raising children, although I do not think the psychological sciences are sufficiently developed.

Science does not provide any ethical guidance. That is the responsiblity of the individual conscience, aided by religion by those who prefer so.
 
Abbey Normal said:
Perhaps you can explain why non-believers get so upset at the attempts of Christians to tell them about God? I have wondered this for a long time. What exactly is so terrible about someone trying to save your soul? (Which is what believers are ultimately trying to accomplish when they share the Gospel). When T-Mobile or Sprint calls to convince me to give them my money, I choose yes or no. I don't feel the need to argue with them, or debunk what they think about their product. I just say "no thanks". And if they call back another day, I will most likely say no thanks again. And they are only looking to make a profit, not ensure my salvation. It could be that your strong reaction means that something bigger than you is tugging at your heart. :)

Abbey, non-believers hate the thought that there might be a God - because if there is one, they're faced with a decision to make and people hate change. Additionally, mankind is so full of himself, he always likes to think there is nothing greater out there that would require him to "fall in line"...

Their reaction has more to do with the fact that they have "spiritual blinders" on and therefore cannot begin to see the error of their ways - best thing Christians can do is to pray for folks - pray that the Spirit of God will open their eyes...
 
Perhaps you can explain why non-believers get so upset at the attempts of Christians to tell them about God? I have wondered this for a long time. What exactly is so terrible about someone trying to save your soul? (Which is what believers are ultimately trying to accomplish when they share the Gospel). When T-Mobile or Sprint calls to convince me to give them my money, I choose yes or no. I don't feel the need to argue with them, or debunk what they think about their product. I just say "no thanks". And if they call back another day, I will most likely say no thanks again. And they are only looking to make a profit, not ensure my salvation. It could be that your strong reaction means that something bigger than you is tugging at your heart.

I can't speak for others. Also, I am an Agnostic. I am not prepared to say that I believe that there is a God. I am not prepared to say that that I believe that there is no God. I have been approached by Christians who wanted me to convert to Christianity. I said that I don't want to talk about it. They, after hearing that, left me alone. Yet, there were other Christians who would not leave me alone until I became rude and loud with them. I suppose that there are peaceful persuaders and I suppose that there are pushy persuaders.

I don't see that Atheists are, as a whole, upset when Christians attempt to tell them about God. Some Atheists and Agnostics may suspect that if a Christian approaches him to speak about God, then the Christian will be a pushy annoyance who will not leave him alone.

No offense intended. Personally, I try to treat each encounter with a different person as a unique occurrence. I try to avoid making generalities.
 
-Cp said:
Do you word for the BBC who are afraid to call terrorists a terrorist? How is calling them non believers somehow "demonizing" them? GOOD LORD - you need to get a grip...

Thanks again for comparing me to the BBC despite the fact that this post has nothing to do with them. You are all about attacking peoples belifes by attacking them. It's clear you dont know how to debate. Since debate involves discrediting arguments not the people who make them. Bascially you seem to deal in cop outs and you end up calling people names. What happened to civility and respect in this country geez. I only disapprove of the suggestiong that "non believers" are somehow bad people simply because they dont believe. Skepticism is something we all experience and we all have to make our case with the best argument possible. If you make an argument you have to substantiate it, otherwise you are the one responsible if nobody belives you. Calling someone a non beliver because they disagree with you is simply a sign that you cant make a good enough argument and you know it too. Most people can be won over with well thought out arguments, if you cant provide one that is your problem
 
mattskramer said:
Perhaps you can explain why non-believers get so upset at the attempts of Christians to tell them about God? I have wondered this for a long time. What exactly is so terrible about someone trying to save your soul? (Which is what believers are ultimately trying to accomplish when they share the Gospel). When T-Mobile or Sprint calls to convince me to give them my money, I choose yes or no. I don't feel the need to argue with them, or debunk what they think about their product. I just say "no thanks". And if they call back another day, I will most likely say no thanks again. And they are only looking to make a profit, not ensure my salvation. It could be that your strong reaction means that something bigger than you is tugging at your heart.

I can't speak for others. Also, I am an Agnostic. I am not prepared to say that I believe that there is a God. I am not prepared to say that that I believe that there is no God. I have been approached by Christians who wanted me to convert to Christianity. I said that I don't want to talk about it. They, after hearing that, left me alone. Yet, there were other Christians who would not leave me alone until I became rude and loud with them. I suppose that there are peaceful persuaders and I suppose that there are pushy persuaders.

I don't see that Atheists are, as a whole, upset when Christians attempt to tell them about God. Some Atheists and Agnostics may suspect that if a Christian approaches him to speak about God, then the Christian will be a pushy annoyance who will not leave him alone.

No offense intended. Personally, I try to treat each encounter with a person as a unique occurrence. I try to avoid making generalities.

Good generalities are a bad thing there are 289 million people in the us and not two of them are the same
 
-Cp said:
Blowing old-earth belief away
Helium gives evidence that the earth is young
by Jonathan Sarfati

We’re all familiar with helium, the very light gas that makes balloons and airships float in the air. Helium has an important safety advantage—it cannot burn or explode like hydrogen. It is also a vital part of air mixtures for breathing by deep-sea divers—unlike nitrogen, it hardly dissolves in blood or lipids (fatty compounds) even at high pressures. This avoids nitrogen narcosis, where the nervous system (60% lipid) becomes saturated with nitrogen, which can make divers feel as if they had consumed one martini per 100 ft of depth. It also avoids the bends or decompression sickness, a painful and dangerous condition caused by nitrogen bubbles forming in the diver’s blood, nervous system, joints, and under the skin, if the pressure drops too fast as the diver re-surfaces. The helium/oxygen mixture (heliox) makes the voice very high-pitched, because sound travels much faster in helium than in air—a favourite party trick using helium-filled balloons.

Helium is the second lightest chemical element, with many unique properties. It is so named because it was first detected in light patterns in the sun (Greek helios) before it was detected on earth. All gases will condense into a liquid if cooled enough, but helium has the lowest condensation point of any substance (–269°C or –452°F). Unlike other elements, it will never freeze, no matter how cold it is, except under high pressure.1 Also, liquid helium cooled below –271°C (–456°F) forms a unique phase called a superfluid, which flows perfectly, without any resistance (viscosity).2

Helium in the sun is generally believed to be formed by nuclear fusion. This is where nuclei of hydrogen, the lightest element, combine to form helium with huge amounts of energy released.

On earth, it is produced mainly by radioactive alpha (a)-decay. The great New Zealand physicist Ernest Rutherford (1871–1937) discovered that a-particles were really the nuclei of helium atoms. Radioactive elements in rocks—like uranium and thorium—produce helium this way, and it leaks out into the air.

Scientists can work out how fast helium is forming, how fast it escapes from rocks, how much enters the air, and how much can escape from the air into space. They can also measure the amount of helium in rocks and in the air. From this, they can calculate the maximum age of rocks and of the air. The results are puzzling to those who believe in billions of years. Of course, all such calculations depend on assumptions about the past, like the starting conditions and constant rates of processes. They can never prove the age of something. For that, we need an eye-witness (cf. Job 38:4).

Helium in the atmosphere

Air is mainly nitrogen (78.1%) and oxygen (20.1%). There is much less helium (0.0005%). But this is still a lot of helium—3.71 billion tonnes. However, since 67 grams of helium escape from the earth’s crust into the atmosphere every second, it would have taken about two million years for the current amount of helium to build up, even if there had been none at the beginning. Evolutionists believe the earth is over 2,500 times older—4.5 billion years. Of course, the earth could have been created with most of the helium already there, so two million years is a maximum age. (It could easily be much younger, such as 6,000 years in age.)

Also, the rate of helium buildup would be slower now than in the past, because the radioactive sources have decayed. This would put an even lower upper limit on the age of the earth.

The only way around this problem is to assume that the helium is escaping into space. But for this to happen, the helium atoms must be moving fast enough to escape the earth’s gravity (i.e., above the escape velocity). Collisions between atoms slow them down, but above a critical height (the exobase) of about 500 kilometres (300 miles) above the earth, collisions are very rare. Atoms crossing this height have a chance of escaping if they are moving fast enough—at least 10.75 kilometres per second (24,200 miles per hour).3 Note that although helium in a balloon will float, helium when unenclosed will just mix evenly with all the other gases, as per normal gas behaviour.

The average speed of atoms can be calculated if we know the temperature, since this is related to the average energy of the atoms or molecules. The great physicist (and creationist) James Clerk Maxwell4 calculated how many gas atoms (or molecules) would have a given speed for any temperature and mass.5 Thus we can calculate how many atoms would cross the exobase fast enough to escape into space.

The exobase is very hot. But even if we assume a temperature of 1500 K (1227°C or 2241°F), higher than the average, the most common speed of helium atoms is only 2.5 kilometres per second (5625 mph), or less than a quarter of the escape velocity. A very few atoms travel much faster than the average, but still the amount of helium escaping into space is only about 1/40th the amount entering the atmosphere. Other escape mechanisms are also inadequate to account for the small amount of helium in the air, about 1/2000th the amount expected after the alleged billions of years.

This is an unsolved problem to the long-age atmospheric physicist C.G. Walker, who stated: ‘… there appears to be a problem with the helium budget of the atmosphere.’6 Another expert, J.W. Chamberlain, said that this helium accumulation problem ‘… will not go away, and it is unsolved.’7 The evolutionary community have been desperately looking for other explanations for the shortage, but none of them have proved adequate. A simple solution is that the earth is not nearly as old as the evolutionists think! The creationist atmospheric scientist Larry Vardiman has written a more in-depth study of this topic.8, 9

Helium in the rocks
As pointed out above, most helium on earth is produced by radioactive decay in rocks. The small atoms of helium gas have no trouble escaping from the rocks into the atmosphere.

The rate of entry into the atmosphere is known, as shown above. But we can also measure the rate at which helium escapes from the rocks. This process is faster in hotter rocks, and the deeper one goes into the earth, the hotter the rocks become.

The creationist physicist Robert Gentry was researching deep granite as a possible way of safely storing dangerous radioactive waste from nuclear power stations. Safe storage requires that the elements should not move too fast through the rock.

Granite contains mineral crystals called zircons (zirconium silicate, ZrSiO4), which often contain radioactive elements. Thus they should produce helium, which should be escaping.

But Gentry found that even the deep, hot zircons (197°C or 387°F) contained far too much helium—that is, if it had had billions of years to escape.

However, if there had really been only thousands of years for this helium to escape, then we shouldn't be surprised that there is so much left.10

[October 2002 update: see how this is good evidence for accelerated nuclear decay in Nuclear decay: evidence for a young world by creationist nuclear physicist Dr Russell Humphreys.]

Conclusion
The amount of helium in the air and in rocks is not consistent with the earth’s being billions of years old, as believed by evolutionists and progressive creationists. Rather it is good scientific evidence for a short age, as taught by a straightforward reading of Genesis.

<a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v20/i3/old_earth.asp" target=_blank">:D</a>


Most impressive you've found some science that suggests the world is young, now would you like me to show you the countless scientists that would refute this position, I suppose you would argue that they were wrong and that this is all the evidence we need to prove the age of the earth. *Sigh* yes science is only useful when it proves itself wrong (despite the fact that this doesent prove a thing) I suppose we should just disregrad all the evidence and data, the opinions and tesitimony of hundreds of geologists, biologists, anthropologists and not to mention physicists, because of this. So what youre saying is that "scientist can be wrong but not this one" gag
 

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